kisskh MDLv6.6
Home→ General Asia→ Lost You Forever→ Show & Movie Discussions→

Xiang Liu and Xiao Yao’s Story and Romance

MengXiang

@19279

Thanks for the additional section. It's amazing.

Quote
HeadInTheClouds

Sorry about digging up days-old posts, but I finally have time to go through older posts and reply to them.

This is not a "rebuttal" - we all have our own opinions and that's all good. I just would like to use your post to share some of my thoughts on this matter of who was ultimately responsible for the outcome of YaoLiu's relationship. 

 H19279:
Oh, it seems that you blame XL for their tragic ending of their relationship.

I don't blame XL for how their relationship ended. In general, I don't traffic in blame because I think when you blame other people, you are not taking responsibility for your part in the outcome. So, I don't blame XL, XY or Jing for the outcome of YaoLiu's relationship. 

Both Xiang Liu and Xiao Yao have their reasons for making the choices that they did, and they have every right to choose their path. A relationship is a two-person business; you need two people to agree to the relationship for it to happen. It's like a tango, you have to be in sync for it to be sustainable. Xiang Liu and Xiao Yao were probably never in sync. When one of them stepped into the relationship, the other was either not ready or already stepping away. 

I noticed a lot of debates about who ultimately was the final decision-maker in the outcome of their relationship. Personally, between XL and XY, I would choose XL as the one who may (noticed the word may) have had the ability to exert a stronger influence on the outcome. My reason is that Xiang Liu is the one who shows clarity of thought, unimpeded by fear and he also has the decisiveness to act on his decision. Unlike Xiao Yao who operates out of fear and engaged in willful ignorance and self-deception. However, his action alone would not amount to anything unless XY responded accordingly. Like I said, it's a tango, not a solo performance.

 H19279:
Her selfish criteria and her characteristics of "scare of having and losing"


 H19279:
XL didn't meet her prerequisite requirement. Therefore, in her mind she had never considered XL as candidate for her lifetime companion. She was afraid of letting him in her dream. Jing/YSQ was always beside her. Thank to her rational mind, she knew Jing/YSQ is a safer choice.

I agree that XY is selfish. Not because she has certain criteria for a mate (which one of us doesn't?), but because she asked for things that she isn't willing to give. 

Right from the beginning, XY wasn't looking for love. Love never came up as a criterion for choosing a partner; the focus for XY has always been a companion that won't leave her. So Jing is the safe/obvious choice. What she didn't expect was to fall in love with Xiang Liu; a man who didn't/wouldn't/couldn't meet the essential criteria that she was looking for. This creates a dilemma for Xiao Yao - between her mind and her heart. A dilemma that she tries to mitigate by engaging in willful ignorance and self-deception. 

A clear example of her willful ignorance is the whole 37 years in exchange for a mountain deal. Xiao Yao knows how Xiang Liu treated her in those 37 years, she even suspects that he used one of his life to save hers, and yet, she was quick to dismiss the implications of his behaviour and chose to "believe" that it was all transactional. Is she really stupid? No, it's just a convenient excuse. Because if she acknowledges that Xiang Liu loves her, then she cannot place the responsibility on him. She can't just say, "he doesn't love me, so there's no point even contemplating". Acknowledgement removed one obstacle, but it requires her to deal with the actual dilemma. It requires her to make a choice and take action - do I step in and take a chance, or do I play it safe?? (that is if she even admits to her feelings for him)

People said that Xiao Yao didn't choose Xiang Liu; that she chose Jing because she was rational. Frankly, she didn't choose anything. She was too scared to even examine her feelings or even to acknowledge his. She never fully stepped in and took clear action; she waited passively for other people to make their intentions known and then respond/react to them. Jing picked her, so she said yes to him. If Xiang Liu had confessed would she have chosen him? Who knows, since the two of them never sync up.

Xiao Yao is rational and courageous in many ways, except when it comes to the matter of the heart. Here, her modus operandus is to play it safe, too afraid of losing to take the risks. But this means putting herself into a passive/reactive position and her options are limited by  default to other people choices.  

The bottom line is that both Xiang Liu and Xiao Yao could have taken action independently of each other and seen where it led. They didn't have to wait for the other person to give them the all-clear before confessing etc. If they don't take action, then why are they blaming the other person for their failure to act? All of this, "I didn't do X because you didn't do Y" is a cop-out. You can't control others behaviour, but you can control your own. Take action and deal with the consequences. If you don't, you only have yourself to blame.

edited Quote
luv2bafangurl

@HeadInTheClouds

great neutral and logical analysis. I‘ll read this again before S2 starts to help me at least to have neutral feelings about XY. I sympathized and could understand XY while I‘m watching the drama, being a more head over emotion girl myself. But reading this thread and my XL bias made me dislike drama XY more as time passed and rewatching XL-XY scenes made it even worse, because I‘m now noticing all TJC micro expression and all the feelings(love, hurt, disappointment, etc) he so superbly conveyed and I FEEL for him. There are two instances in the drama that really bother me about XY:

1. @Elise has wrote about this before, sorry I can‘t find her post and quote her. The time after 37 years healing period where XY went back to save TSJ even going so far to mouth feeding him the medicine and sleeping right to him. OMG girl, XL just saved you and you cried because he sent you off without meeting you and here you are, not even a day after you devoted yourself to TSJ. XY came across as flighty. Even if she loved both XL and TSJ at this point and was reading XL not saying goodbye personally as his way of rejecting her, how could she have emotional whiplash that quick. And the drama made it clear that she actually knew how sweet XL treated her while she’s unconscious and she didn‘t know about the mountain peak deal XL made with CX, so nothing tainted her memory of the 37 years yet. Or maybe like some of you interpreted, this is her way of projecting what she and XL can not have to TSJ, still it left a bitter taste in my mouth

2. the way she was so harsh in rejecting XL biting her at the neck (FFB reveal scene). XY tone and expression were so cold in this scene. Even if the reasoning is sound, she‘s a girl now, she could say it in nicer way. I don‘t buy that she is so angry to find out FFB is XL to justify her reaction as she herself has suspicion already from the beginning. The reveal wasn’t really a shock to her but more like confirmation of her suspicion. This is maybe another case where the production team tried to downplay XY feelings to XL, but it came across as jarring to me.

Ultimately I‘ll make peace with the ending because it‘s XL decision, even if I don‘t like it I need to respect that. Gads I really need therapy if I treat a fictional character like a real one.

Does any of you know a good therapist. I‘ll take recommendation, thank you ;)

New question: what do you ladies think, why XL never told TSJ/XY about FFYY and TSH affair? He surely can save XY heartbreak if TSJ pesky engagement problem is solved earlier and not escalated that way. Is it maybe another contradictory nature of his 9 heads or he‘s just being petty, like he‘ll encourage and console XY not to lose hope (on TSJ) but won‘t actively help his love rival cleaning his mess other than when it is life and death situation? 

edited Quote
Kokuto
 luv2bafangurl:
New question: what do you ladies think, why XL never told TSJ/XY about FFYY and TSH affair?

He did try to tell XY, but she didn't want to hear it, so he shrugged his shoulders and did as she wanted.

It was in the scene where everybody was at the party and XL was sitting with FFYY and TSH and noticed them making moon eyes at each other.  Then XY came in and called him out for a walk in the garden.  He tried to get her to go see what FFYY was doing in the garden with Tushan ... and she cut him off.  The woman does NOT want to hear what she doesn't want to hear.

edited Quote
liddi
 H19279:
Missing part in Kaola translation in chapter 41.

I don't know if the following part was not included in 2013 edition of LYF which Kaola used as resource of original text or she/he thought it was not so important so just made a small summary.

the text was mainly about XY's motivation for studying medicine in proper way as well as editing the medical book.

Thank you very much for sharing! Good catch about the omission in Vol 3 Ch8 of the translation. It indeed provides vital context to Xiao Yao's original circumstances. I particularly love the vignette about the little girl who need no longer be sold off because she managed to heal the father, which beautifully highlights what the core motivations of being a healer should be.

The text I have presumably from 2013 (thank you @MTH123!) does include these passages, but I cannot be absolutely sure it is the complete 2013 edition. Would love to get my hands on the original physical books. Tong Hua's chapters are very lengthy, and challenging to translate. I know personally how even just a word or a small paragraph can take up so much time and mental gymnastics (the struggle to make it read smoothly without jarring is among the many considerations!), so the fact that Koala provided the complete, beautifully translated novel is such a boon and an accomplishment in itself.

Quote
H19279
 luv2bafangurl:
He surely can save XY heartbreak if TSJ pesky engagement problem is solved earlier and not escalated that way.

First, in the novel it was not as clear as in the drama that FFB knew something between FFYY and TSH. 

Xiao Yao stopped and looked around, this maze really was amazing, no wonder it could trap Feng Long and Xing Yue for an entire day.

Xiao Yao looked at Fang Feng Bei “How to get out?”

Fang Feng Bei smiled “This maze has many interesting areas, you don’t want to go check it out?”

“No!”

Fang Feng Bei led Xiao Yao to the exit “Don’t regret it in the future.”

Xiao Yao coldly huffed.

This event was on FL and Xing Yue's birthday, XY just went to Middle Plain for short time. XY at that time didn't have clear feeling with Jing. FFB and XY after that event still enjoy time together for several years. He taught her archery and they traveled, discovered Zhiyi, Zhe Province together. During that time, Jing should have solved his problem of canceling the engagment himself. I don't see any reason that XL need to tell XY about FFYY might have love affair with TSH. He probably didn't know how serious is the affair. And FFYY is officially his sister who had quite good relationship with him (She drew XY's attention to FFB in the event).

2nd, even XY herself didn't tell Jing that FFYY was a dangerous one who tried to kill CX several times so that Jing could have prepared, and alerted more with YY. So why should XL do so? He basically didn't have any evidence about YY and TJH after 37 years. They didn't have any encounter all together perhaps only in CX's wedding. And that one was way after Jing was framed by YY. The pregnancy before marriage was kind of "forbiden subject" that should be kept secretly. Did Fang Feng family all know about that before her wedding? And FFB was not at home all the time. Moreover, after Jing became clan leader, he knew that YY more determined to be clan leader's wife. YY and TJH even pretended to dislike each other (if I remmember correctly). So, no clear evidence. 

Last, it's his character. He was a general, he was ruthless on battle. He was also an assasin if someone hire him. However, he had a crystal heart. He would not harm any other for his benefit. It can be seen that he helped XY with his own resources and effort. When he helped her, he didn't want her to know that. The only time he gave XY analysis about Jing's death. He did it for the sake of her benefit mainly. But he didn't tell her directly that was CX. 

To conclude. It is not justified for him to require him to help XY/Jing about YY and TSH's affair. 

Bonus: Some people also complained why he didn't let XY know about Jing was in coma. He kept that secret for 6 year even though he knew XY was depressed and heartache during that time

edited Quote
H19279

@Liddi, and others

I found a free 2017 internet version of LYF in Chinese. I heard that the major changed took place in 2019. So I don't expect much significant difference between 2013 and 2017 edition.

For those who are interested in the original text in Chinese (for curious reason) you can take a look the following link

长相思 桐华, 长相思小说, 长相思小说全文免费在线阅读 - 落霞读书 (luoxiadushu.com) 

I also find the translation tool such as google translate or bing translation is quite ok in certain cases. For simple text, they can do very well. Of course, user should double check with dictionary or play arount with the sentense which doesn't make so much sense. for example the long text that I shared, I just had to fix only 1 sentence (from I didn't to she didn't). The literature level may not be optimal but informative enough. 

edited Quote
nathsketch VIP
 H19279:

@Liddi, and others

I found a free 2017 internet version of LYF in Chinese. I heard that the major changed took place in 2019. So I don't expect much significant difference between 2013 and 2017 edition.

For those who are interested in the original text in Chinese (for curious reason) you can take a look the following link

长相思 桐华, 长相思小说, 长相思小说全文免费在线阅读 - 落霞读书 (luoxiadushu.com) 

I also find the translation tool such as google translate or bing translation is quite ok in certain cases. For simple text, they can do very well. Of course, user should double check with dictionary or play arount with the sentense which doesn't make so much sense. for example the long text that I shared, I just had to fix only 1 sentence (from I didn't to she didn't). The literature level may not be optimal but informative enough. 

That’s awesome! Thanks for the link. I want to start giving it a try!

Quote
liddi
 H19279:
I found a free 2017 internet version of LYF in Chinese. I heard that the major changed took place in 2019. So I don't expect much significant difference between 2013 and 2017 edition.

I own the physical 2023 edition, which I expect should be the same as the revised 2019 version. The link you shared has Xiang Liu calling her "useless" instead of saying she should blame herself that she didn't ask if he could kill the lovers bug, so that appears to be similar to Koala's translation from 2013. 

Apart from the changes in names, locations, and certain turn of phrases, I have not really seen many major changes yet. One main inclusion I do see is the addition of a prologue in 2019 onwards. 

Quote
H19279
 liddi:
@windiaaa041293

The text in Vol 1 Ch14 is as follows:

却看璟一边站起，一边随手解开了束发的发冠，满头青丝如银河泻九天，披落在他背上，飘散在海风中。他侧倚着船栏，几分慵懒、几分随意地看着东边天空初露的晨曦。

小夭一瞬间看得心如鹿撞，怦怦直跳。玱玹叫了她好几声，她都没有听到，惹得所有人都看着她。

玱玹推了她一把，“你在想什么？”

小夭忙道：“啊，你们回来了。” 脸刹那涨得通红，幸亏有面纱遮住，没有人能看到。

璟却似乎明白了，眼中飞溅着喜悦。

However, she saw Jing undo the coronet that held his hair as he stood up, sending a head full of black hair down his back like the Milky Way falling from the sky, flying in the sea breeze. He leaned against the railing of the ship, gazing lazily and casually at the first light of dawn in the eastern sky.

@Liddi

I found the text about XL's hair

"相柳白衣白发，优雅自如地游弋着，白色的长发 在他的身后飘舞，" (Chapter 13)

Regardless the color different, do you find the  hair forms of the two are similar (especially observing from the back)

I have checked all the previous chapters about YQS's hair but there is no mention about his hair style. The XY's memory about YSQ's hair is she cleaned his hair while he was patient. Later YSQ sometimes help WXL drying his hair. She didn't have any impression of flying hair connecting to YSQ.

Xiang Liu and Xiao Yao’s Story and Romance - Page 282 #2841223 - Lost You Forever - kisskh 

edited Quote
liddi
 H19279:
I found the text about XL's hair

"相柳白衣白发，优雅自如地游弋着，白色的长发 在他的身后飘舞，"

Regardless the color different, do you find the  hair forms of the two are similar (especially observing from the back)

Xiang Liu's hair had always been free-falling, which is how Jing's hair is portrayed here. In that sense, it is possible that she correlated that look to Xiang Liu. 

However, if you look further down at how she recalled this scene in Vol 2 Ch9 (Chapter 26), it should indicate that she associated those emotions to Jing.

小夭已一年多没见过璟，看到他这样子，小夭保持着微笑，静静地站在西陵族长身后。还记得归墟海中，他扯落发冠时，她的心悸情动，也记得耳鬓厮磨时，她指间绕着他的发，一头青丝、满心情思。一切就好似昨日，却已是青丝染霜，情思断裂。
Xiao Yao had not seen Jing in over a year. Seeing him like this, Xiao Yao maintained her smile, quietly standing behind the Xiling clan leader. She still remembered at 归墟 Guixu Sea, how her heart palpitated with emotion when he removed the coronet from his hair. She also remembered how she twirled his hair around her fingers as their heads leaned against each other, black hair filled with longing. Everything felt like only yesterday, but now the black hair was stained with white, the longing severed.

-- Vol 2 Ch9   (Chapter 26)

Quote
H19279

Yes, she can link that memory on boat to Jing when later she recalled. What I means why at that moment  his free hair drew her attention (in chapter 14).

XL's hair: 飘舞 in water, (this is XL's hair recorded in her mirror. She just looked at it a few days before)

Jing's hair: Like Milky Way & 飘散 in breeze 

I don't know how to say but sth like she was impressed/ hooked by the dancing hair style which first came from XL. She loved his hair for sure. Because in the novel, TH always describled XL's hair whenever he appeared (only XL, not FFB). That generally reflects  XY's view. Similar example when she was drawn by FFB the first time she saw him in the dancing place just because he looked like XL. Jing at that moment became special in her eyes because of his flying hair which is similar to XL's dancing hair 

Now I remember one detail. When XL brought XY to the sea after CX wedding. She asked him why he didn't changed his hair back. Why? He had to bring her back to Shen-nong later. It would be illogical if he changed his hair back to white. She paid a lot of attention on his hair. 

P/S: if I included the content of the poem for the chapter title, then it's likely she thought of him when she was on boat (full moon on the sea can remind her about him,she cursed him because she had to swim the whole night thank to him; she got exhausted and could not enjoy the water then she drank wine until got drunk and nausea). The poem is about a woman missing her husband who parted her in autum; she was on boat, relieving her longing, looking at the moon...

edited Quote
windiaaa041293
 H19279:

Yes, she can link that memory on boat to Jing when later she recalled. What I means why at that time  his free hair drew her attention (in chapter 14).

XL's hair: 飘舞 in water (this is XL's hair recorded in her mirror. She just looked at it a few days before)

Jing's hair: 飘散 in breeze 

If we pay attention to the writing pattern... all actions or emotions at first all refer to XL... then after that it could also be to Jing.
whether it's hair, the moon, a kiss, etc

Quote
liddi

Leaked script Ep8 scenes 15-19   (Vol 2 Ch16 - Chapter 33)

This covers Xiao Yao's return to Gao Xin after the wedding uproar, and her departure to give the live-saving pills to Jing. The scene where A Nian asked her why she ran away on her wedding, about her relationship with Fangfeng Bei and the rumours that abound about them were omitted.  Again, highlighted texts are additional lines/scenes not in the novel.


[Jing pretended to drink the poisoned medicine by Fangfeng Yi Ying, but actually poured it away, drinking the real medicines Hu Zhen prepared instead. Frustrated that he was still not dead, Fangfeng Yi Ying instructed that they increase the poison dosage without Hou's approval]

*****************

Xiao Yao returned to Five Deities Mountain at Gao Xin, and was surprised to see the courteous way she was welcomed by the courtiers, as if nothing ever happened.

XY (bowing): Royal Father.
Gao Xin Shao Hao smiled, and his tone was normal, as if Xiao Yao just returned from a regular trip.
GXSH: It's good that you have come home. Are you tired?
XY: No.

Xiao Yao looked at A Nian and Ru Shou. A Nian made a face at her, while Ru Shou's smile was perfectly cordial.

XY (confused): This time I caused so much trouble for Royal Father and Gao Xin. How is it... everyone acts as if nothing had happened?
GXSH (gentle and warm): Have you forgotten what I once told you? You can be reckless and behave outrageously, because your Royal Father is a powerful ruler. I have the capability to allow my daughter to be outrageous.

Xiao Yao felt guilty and happy at the same time, and could not find the words to speak.

AN (smugly): Royal Father, now you realise that I am more obedient than Older Sister? She only appears well-behaved normally and does not cause any trouble, but once she does cause trouble, it is earth-shattering.
XY: So... don't you imitate me.
RS: Your Highness, I wish to ask about Fangfeng Bei...

Before Ru Shou could finish his words, Gao Xin Shao Hao coughed lightly and Ru Shou immediately caught the hint.

RS: Oh... actually I have nothing to ask about Fangfeng Bei. I just remembered... there are some tasks from His Majesty that I have not completed. I will take my leave first.
GXSH: Yes.

Ru Shou bowed, then gave A Nian a meaningful look, indicating she should follow him. A Nian pretended that she did not notice, so Ru Shou dragged her off without another word.

RS: I have some things that I need to consult Second Princess.

A Nian struggled against Ru Shou and kicked him.
Gao Xin Shao Hao acted as if he had not noticed the squabbling two, got up and walked over to Xiao Yao.

GXSH (gently): I heard that you went to the Tushan residence.
XY: Yes, I went to Qingqiu to see Tushan Jing.
GXSH: Do you need me to do anything? Back then, I said I could send an army to destroy the Fangfeng clan, and help you snatch the young Tushan fox. That was not a joke.

Xiao Yao was extremely moved, but shook her head.

XY: Thank you, Royal Father. However, this time, I wish to handle this myself. I want to face it... I no longer wish to avoid it passively.
GXSH (gratified): Very well. However, you must remember that you have a Royal Father, one who is extremely capable, whom you can always approach if you have any need.
XY: I do have something I need your help with.
GXSH: Oh?
XY (wheedling): Royal Father, can you give me the keys to the private treasury? I wish to go through the treasures in your private collection.
GXSH (sounding out): You want to create pills* again?

Xiao Yao looked squarely at Gao Xin Shao Hao in the eye.

XY: Yes, I want to create pills again, but unlike previous times, what I want to create are not poisons, but medicines that can heal.

[She went on to create live-saving pills mixed with her blood, which she would later pass to Tushan Jing]

*the word 药 does not specifically mean "pill" but a substance (solid/liquid) which can either be poisonous or beneficial.

Quote
liddi

Leaked script Ep9 (scenes 7, 17-18)

@luv2bafangurl, to answer your question, the scenes with Lirong Chang and Xiang Liu do not exist in the novel, but are added in the drama, which shows Xiang Liu confirming his son's parentage to Jing.


[Xiao Yao gave Jing life-saving pills and a letter through Jing Ye. In the letter, she told him that she would start ignoring him from this point forward, and asked him to promise that regardless of what happened after this, whatever he saw or heard, he would close his eyes, search his heart and trust her unconditionally.]

TSJ (VO): I promise you. In the past, I failed to do everything I promised you. This time I will definitely keep my promise, and will not let you down!

*********************

[At Zhi Yi city, Xiao Yao started showing marked attention to Hou in attempts to expose the truth, which angered Lirong Chang, who offered to beat up Hou for him.]

TSJ: Don't cause trouble. This is Zhi Yi city. If the two kings on Shen Nong mountain do not care, who are you to do so?
LRC: No wonder this princess can behave so outrageously, it is because she was totally spoiled! Just look at her, she looked down on you, looked down on Feng Long, and even totally destroyed Fangfeng Bei... and now she is actually having a wonderful time with that jerk Tushan Hou...

Tushan Jing furrowed his brows as he pondered on Xiao Yao's motives.

LRC (patting his chest): Just let me know how you want this matter handled and I will go all out for you!

Tushan Jing seemed to have made a decision and looked at Lirong Chang, whose face was filled with anticipation.

TSJ: Go back first! I am going on a faraway trip to settle some things.

Lirong Chang stiffened. Tushan Jing got up and Lirong Chang followed, blocking his way.

LRC: Whatever you are planning to do, I will go with you. You cannot use your spiritual powers rashly. I have to keep an eye on you.
TSJ: There is no need. I am making a trip to Qingshui town.
LRC (shocked): What are you going to Qingshui town for? Isn't that Nine-Headed Demon's territory?
TSJ: There are some things I need to clear up.

**************************

By the river of Qingshui town, Tushan Jing and an unmasked Xiang Liu stood facing each other.

XL (coldly): What does Tushan clan leader want?
TSJ: I wish to ask you... about Fangfeng Yi Ying and Tushan Zhen.
XL (mocking): You are asking me about matters regarding your wife and son?
TSJ (placidly): I have suspicions about Tushan Zhen's parentage, but have turned up nothing in my investigations. If you know anything, I hope you would tell me. Consider it as me buying information from you.
XL: Why go to such trouble? Name your price and I will help you kill mother and son.

Tushan Jing was stunned, then shook his head with a bitter laugh.

TSJ: There is no need. I will find another way.
XL (scornfully): Indecisive!
TSJ (calmly): I have not thanked you, thank you for letting Xiao Yao look for me at Qingqiu...

Xiang Liu refused to accept his gratitude, coldly interrupting Tushan Jing.

XL: We had a deal between us last time. Her going to Qingqiu to find you is her business, what does that have to do with me?

Tushan Jing did not argue, merely bowed deeply to Xiang Liu, and planned to leave.

XL (suddenly): I do not know whose son Tushan Zhen is. However, Fangfeng Yi Ying and Tushan Hou are definitely having an affair.

Tushan Jing stopped dead in his tracks and whirled around, staring at Xiang Liu in shock. As Xiang Liu turned to leave, Tushan Jing came to his senses and took a few steps after him.

TSJ: Wait, can I trouble you...

Xiang Liu did not even bother to look back.

XL: Fangfeng Bei is already dead. Surely you are not expecting a dead man to be a witness?

Tushan Jing was caught off guard. Xiang Liu's figure disappeared.
Tushan Jing stood there, stunned. All his suspicions over the years had finally been confirmed, but he could not tell whether he was happy or sad, mixed emotions on his face.

TSJ (murmuring): It was true after all...

edited Quote

Recent Discussions

Hottest Discussions