blabla100:
@HeadInTheClouds
I don't belive Jing was acting like that because he belived XY wanted him like that, but because he wanted to keep XY by his side. This is what I personally call emotional blackmail.
I think what MayaDavid was putting forward was that Xiao Yao likes to be in the position of power in her relationships because it gives her control and makes her feel safe - it's part of her psychological issues. So Jing played into that. I'll add a little more from the conversation so it will be clearer. But yes, we think there may be deliberate emotional manipulation going on - a kind of weaponised incompetence as well.
One of the clearest examples of emotional manipulation for me is the sending of 15 bottles of wine, on the 15 day of the month (I think - I'm not good with details :-)). The constant tune of, "I know I'm not good for you, but....". All the while, he played into Xiao Yao's sympathy/pity.
I know that my opinion of Jing really changed during this reading, so I may be reading all of this through a biased lens. Thus,I just want to see if you ladies here who are more neutral on him picked up anything.
windiaaa041293:
Speaking of that...
A few months ago, I saw on TikTok a video clip of LYF that Jingger posted.
I forgot what episode.
But the picture is taken from inside the room to the outside, outside shows Tsj walking towards the room where XY is,
From the outside it looked like Jing was walking fine/normal/not limping, but when he was about to enter the room and Xy saw, his walking changed to a limp.
I still clearly remember that video, and jingger wrote the caption: how sweet Jing is, he always tries to be Ye Siqi for xy.
have you ever noticed it?
After thinking about it, it turns out how cunning Jing is...woaaah...I want to find that video again.
i saw that too. LOL. yesterday i posted the part where he didn’t want to treat his limp. LOl if it is his acting. i am afraid that he had to act day and night now after the marriage with XY
Speaking of that...
A few months ago, I saw on TikTok a video clip of LYF that Jingger posted.
I forgot what episode.
But the picture is taken from inside the room to the outside, outside shows Tsj walking towards the room where XY is,
From the outside it looked like Jing was walking fine/normal/not limping, but when he was about to enter the room and Xy saw, his walking changed to a limp.
I still clearly remember that video, and jingger wrote the caption: how sweet Jing is, he always tries to be Ye Siqi for xy.
have you ever noticed it?
After thinking about it, it turns out how cunning Jing is...woaaah...I want to find that video again.
Wow! That would probably be a clear example of deliberate manipulation. I didn't notice it when I watch it.
And I was just talking about interpreting things through a biased lens in my post above. And here it is, people who like Jing truly see it as him being loving and considerate. While, I'm sitting here thinking that he's being shady:-)
Please post that video if you find it.
@HeadInTheClouds
I understand what you mean, but I don't belive he was acting like that to please XY or as to give her a guarantee. I belive he was just very cunning and took advantage of XY's kindness and traumas. He îs a fox after all.
Absolutely, he is cunning! I would say that the two things there are not mutually exclusive. Because he is cunning, and he saw the dynamic that Xiao Yao had with her human family as WXL, I think it's very possible that his cunning mind used that to his advantage. A highly manipulative person will use your weakness against you, and his using XY's trauma against her means playing into her need for control/power in a relationship.
The more I think about it, the uglier it becomes.
This Weibo post by Tong Hua points out the purpose of this book's growth line:
If you are suffering from the pain caused by the shadow of your original family, if you are suffering from the hardships of life, don't be like Xiaoyao, longing for someone to save you. Look, Xiaoyao has been going around in circles for half his life. Didn't you finally come out on your own? Therefore, believe in yourself. Suffering is suffering only because you are defeated by it. If you transform suffering into your own strength, then no suffering can defeat you. There is no long-term dependence in this world. Whether it is parents, lovers, relatives and friends, you are born alone and will die alone. Don't be obsessed with long- term dependence. Even if your loved ones leave, you will still be together. Live your life well.
Tong Hua was actually quoting the text from the novel in her post. The words were from Cang Xuan to Xiao Yao, after they returned to Shen Nong and met their grandfather after over 200 years:
玱玹笑起来，“小夭，你怨恨那两个侍女吗？如果不是她们说了不该说的话，你压根儿不用颠沛流离两百多年。”
“不，如果没有那两百多年，我不会是现在的我。如果我在父王身边平平安安地长大，也许会很幸福，可我喜欢现在的我。现在的我什么都不怕，因为我已经历过一无所有，不管遇见多么可怕的困难，我都可以像杀死九尾狐妖一样，手起刀落地杀掉那些困难。”
“如果没有王叔的逼迫，我不会孤身去高辛，就不会看到另外一个世界；如果没有他们一次次的逼害和暗杀，我不会变得更狡猾、更冷静、更有力量。苦难之所以能成为苦难，只是因为遇到它们的人被打败了，而我们打败了苦难，并把它们踩碎，揉进自己的身体里，变成了属于我们的力量，所以，我们从不会把苦难看作苦难。爷爷和我们是一样的人，正因为他明白，所以他才选择了放手。”
小夭笑起来，“好吧，好吧，说不过你，以后我注意一些，不再刺激外祖父了。”
Cang Xuan laughed and said, "Xiao Yao, do you resent those two maids? If they had not said what they should not have, you would not have had to be destitute and homeless for over two hundred years."
"No, if it had not been for those two hundred years, I would not have been the person I am today. If I had grown up peacefully by Royal Father's side, I might have been very blessed, but I like who I am now. The person I am now is afraid of nothing, because I had experienced total loss. No matter what terrifying hardships come my way, I will be able to cut them down swiftly and decisively, like how I killed the nine-tailed fox demon."
"If not for the royal uncles' coercion, I would not have gone to Gao Xin alone, and gotten to see a different world. If not for their repeated plots and assassination attempts, I would not have become more cunning, calmer, stronger. Tribulations turn into tribulations because that those who encounter them are defeated. However, we defeated the tribulations, crushed them to pieces, absorbed them into our bodies and transformed them into our strength. As such, we will never see tribulations as tribulations. Grandfather is just like us. It is precisely because he understood that he chose to let go."
Xiao Yao laughed. "Alright, alright, I can't win this argument. I will be more careful in future not to provoke Grandfather."
-- Vol 1 Ch15
It is telling that the Xiao Yao at the time of that scene, was still pretty much Wen Xiao Liu, except in a woman's body. She was fearless, learnt to survive well and boldly faced whatever obstacles or threats came her way. As such, it was very difficult to see that part of herself chipped away as she allowed herself to be imprisoned by her love and loyalty to her family in a position she never really wanted, a life she did not truly long for. Fear became her companions and shackles, one which she never truly broke free from until Xiang Liu's death finally shattered her chains and she grasped the life she wanted and took that step out of the prison that had held her for so long.
I have cited this scene several times, but I still feel that the bow recognition scene depicted in the drama beautifully sums what Tong Hua wishes to convey in the novel, through the lessons Xiang Liu was subtly telling her - that she had to be self-sufficient, to be strong enough to never have to rely on others or be at the mercy of anyone's whims, and to boldly reach out and claim the kind of life she truly wanted. This is the essence of what Tong Hua always talks about:
"Although I write romance stories, but my understanding of love has always been to first be the best version of yourself before moving on to feelings. One of the cornerstones of love is equality, and equality is built on a woman's independence and self-empowerment.
...
My view is that love can make life very beautiful, but it is not the only thing in life. Women should first live their own lives well. Only a woman with financial and mental independence can embrace love calmly."
-- Tong Hua, 2019 interview excerpts
(6) Xiang Liu’s lovesickness
Xiang Liu kills three eagles with one stone
Thank you for sharing this article. Very interesting concepts presented. I am not really certain that Xiang Liu's theft of the map was predominantly to distract Cang Xuan's royal uncles to smooth the way for Cang Xuan. I am more inclined to think that the stolen map was first and foremost to serve the Shen Nong rebel army well, providing them with much required provisions. The fact that it helped Cang Xuan whom Xiao Yao fiercely protected, was a secondary and convenient consideration, since at the time, Cang Xuan was not a direct threat to the army.
I am intrigued by the possibility that Xiao Yao guessed the identity of the person who commissioned the bow, and by extension, realised Xiang Liu's substantial ties to the Guifang clan. I am curious too at the possibility that Xiang Liu had enough influence over the Guifang clan that they would throw their support behind Cang Xuan at his encouragement. If so, what happened towards the end that the Shen Nong army was cut off with no more secret help from any of the clans in the Middle Plains.
I disagree with the 3rd point that was brought up though. I don't believe Xiang Liu entered Xiao Yao's chambers to see her reaction upon knowing Fangfeng Bei's real identity. He was badly wounded, one that would take him at least two days to heal with the help of her blood. In such circumstances, I highly doubt any thoughts of a romantic nature had anything to do with his visit. He required a place to hide and heal, and he trusted her implicitly with his life, even though they parted on bad terms previously. Another thing I disagree with is the claim that his motivations for approaching her as Fangfeng Bei was to show her that he too can be a lover to her. My take is that he was setting his plans in motion, the most important of which was to empower her so that she could finally protect herself and those she loved. Fangfeng Bei was his alter ego who can freely move about in Xuan Yuan and later the Middle Plains without suspicion. The times they spent apart from the archery lessons was to share happy and beautiful moments together, even if he knew that these times would not last. It never had anything to do with bringing himself back as a romantic option in her eyes. Remember his slip of the tongue, asking her to leave her identity as a princess and roam the world with him, and how he could not answer when she countered that she would if he could give up everything. He always knew he could not be there for the rest of her life, but he wanted their times together to be memorable, joyous ones while it lasted.
Loooong post ahead. Much writing and grammar mistakes. Personal analysis, so highly subjective.
This analysis of Lost You Forever was inspired by:
- The incongruency between Tong Hua’s views on life, love and women’s empowerment and Xiao Yao’s choices and ending in LYF ;
- Kokuto's’s post about the parallel between the fox demon and Jing vs. the Snake demon and Xiang Liu. The first pair represents imprisonment while the second represents empowerment. windiaaa041293 also posted about this parallel to highlight Tong Hua’s writing method; and
- This comment by liddi:
It took Xiang Liu's death for her to finally break free from the cage that she had found herself in, leaving for the one place where Cang Xuan has no power over - the ocean and the many uncharted islands there.liddi:
Most of the reading of Lost You Forever focused on its romantic lines and I was no exception. However, during this re-reading, I found myself feeling dissatisfied with the romance (YaoJing) and increasingly annoyed with the heroine and her choices/behaviour. These feelings became stronger when I read about the author’s views on love, life and women’s empowerment. It seems contradictory for someone with such views to believe that Xiao Yao’s choices are healthy. Things made more sense when I read Tong Hua’s statement that XY’s choices stemmed from her psychological shortcomings. For me, this novel is more coherent (and less frustrating) if you read it from the perspective of a traumatized female lead and her journey towards healing. Essentially, The entirety of Lost You Forever is Xiao Yao searching for the way to true healing and integration and the romances are analogies to ways of getting there.
If Xiao Yao has a diagnosis it would probably be complex trauma. She had various traumatic experiences during her formative years, one of the biggest is what is termed attachment trauma – trauma that occurs in the context of a relationship with another person. Attachment security is a crucial factor for the development of a young child’s emotional, cognitive and interpersonal competence. As young children, we rely on our relationships with others to develop our sense of self/identity, our view of the world and relationships and our sense of security. For Xiao Yao, believing herself to be “abandoned” by all her loved ones (particularly her mother) at a young age was a huge disruption and resulted in core beliefs around the inherent unsafety of the world, the untrustworthiness of people and being unlovable/not good enough. The result is someone who is deeply insecure, mistrustful and with a shaky sense of self. XY’s plaintive assessment of herself as someone with nowhere to go, no one to lean on and no means of self-protection comes from that abandoned child.
Her years in the wilderness are the beginning of the trauma manifestation - her constantly changing appearance and eventually forgetting what she looked like is a metaphor for a complete loss of self/identity. Xiao Yao’s inner resilience and resourcefulness (not to mention, stubbornness) that she displayed as a child helped pull her through and crafted Wen Xiao Liu. Her identity/life as Wen Xiao Liu presents a period of stable identity and freedom, but it’s still marred by deep insecurity and doubt. Reclaiming her true appearance and identity as Hao Ling’s Princess was the start of her healing journey – to heal we sometimes need to return to the start of our wound. Ironically, in returning to her Princess identity, Xiao Yao lost the freedom that she had as Wen Xiao Lu. She also became more passive. This is because her identity as Hao Ling’s Princess is a borrowed identity, it’s not who she truly is nor wants to be. Xiao Yao doesn’t like Royal life and never really fully integrated into it. She used her time and title as Princess to support CX – but there’s nothing there that’s really for Xiao Yao. The closer CX gets to achieving his goal and the less that he needs her, the more loss Xiao Yao becomes.
What Xiao Yao wants is to be free to explore and roam the world – the vast ocean is where Xiao Yao is most herself. But when your sense of self is shaky, when you hunger for love and acceptance, you will accept what others impose on you in exchange for belonging. The whole, “your blood had decided for you” is just another imposed limitation that keeps her trapped in this borrowed identity. Part of becoming an adult involves separating from your family of origin, sometimes this means rejecting their values/practices that are antithetical to yours. However, the abandoned child in Xiao Yao will not want to be rejected by her family again – particularly by Cang Xuan who is the only link back to her childhood before the trauma.
This abandoned child is also the one seeking someone who will always put her first, and who will never leave her – “if I’m their priority and they never leave me, then I am worthy”. Jing is the perfect choice from this abandoned child’s perspective, with his promises of love forever and ever. The problem with this method is that Xiao Yao is placing her sense of self, her worth and her security on an external source. This leaves her vulnerable because when this external source changes, all of these things will crumble. And things will change, no one, despite their best intention will be able to put you first at every instant. Jing certainly couldn’t. This method gives temporary relief, but it’s not true healing and in the long run, it will become maladaptive and help to perpetuate the problem. Jing is also a safe choice because he doesn’t pose a threat to her borrowed identity as Princess. Marriage to Jing will actually help to consolidate this identity.
Xiang Liu presents the way to true healing. Xiao Yao is her truest self when she’s with Xiang Liu/FFb; her talent (making poisons) and interest (the ocean, roaming freely) are tied to him. Spending time with Xiang Liu elevated the boredom in her borrowed identity. Unlike Jing who represents dependence on an external source to soothe the abandoned child, Xiang Liu represents healing through self-empowerment. He taught her how to defend/protect herself, pushed her to stand on her own two feet and learn to fight for what she wants instead of relying on others. Choosing Xiang Liu is like choosing to rediscover the secure/joyful child at her core before the trauma and the abandoned child took over. But this is not a safe or comfortable choice, because it means potentially distancing herself from her family of origins and it involves examining her fears and addressing the distorted beliefs that are keeping her trapped. None of these things are easy. It’s easier to attach yourself to someone than do the work of standing on your own. So for the entire novel, she moved back and forth between the falsely reassuring promises of security represented by Jing and the true security that comes from self-knowledge and empowerment represented by Xiang Liu. Despite the numerous instances where Jing showed that what he promised/represented was not real, nor attainable, XY ignored all the signs and clung to hope – particularly whenever things got difficult with Xiang Liu. This one step forward –two steps back is typical for any change process.
Finding out about her true parentage, her parent’s relationship and understanding her mother’s choices are major factors to help Xiao Yao on her journey to true healing. It showed her that unlike what she erroneously believed, she was very much loved and wanted. This was also when she “lost” her Hao Ling’s Princess identity, taking on the mantel Xiling Jiu Yao. Xiling is her maternal lineage – she’s returning to a truer identity and it also signals forgiveness/acceptance of her mother whose original “abandonment” was the beginning of Xiao Yao’s trauma.
However, Xiao Yao still needs one last push. And that came from Xiang Liu. It took Xiang Liu’s death for her to break free of the cage that she had found herself in. Xiang Liu has to die to provide the final catalyst for Xiao Yao to take the next step on her healing journey. Xiang Liu has to die because true healing comes from standing on your own two feet rather than relying on someone else to rescue you. Xiang Liu, as the symbol of true healing, has to die to show Xiao Yao the danger of her real self “dying” if she continues to choose the false safety of the cage represented by Jing and her royal identity. (Tong Hua essentially “Fridged” Xiang Liu in service of Xiao Yao’s development :-) ).
But what about Xiao Yao’s marriage to Jing? Well, do you remember the non-consummation of the wedding night? And do you remember how Miao Pu still called Xiao Yao “Miss” instead of “Mrs” when they were leaving for the ocean, suggesting that the marriage hadn't been consummated way past the wedding night? Are these just coincidences?? Perhaps, perhaps not. Maybe, this is the author saying that Xiao Yao has not “become one” with the false healing that Jing represents, that she could still break free of this false path. The end of the novel sees Xiao Yao heading towards the ocean – the place where she feels true belonging and the place that represents Xiang Liu. Xiao Yao is finally on the path of true healing. Jing is still there because there will be times when she will revert to her old maladaptive coping strategies. After all, changes are difficult to sustain.
The claim that this is a story of healing may not be so incomprehensible after all. Lost You Forever is Xiao Yao’s journey to healing, and like any recovery journey, there will be false starts and mistakes. Sometimes, you have to learn the wrong way to recognize the right way. For me, the end of the novel is the beginning of Xiao Yao’s journey to truly heal and discover herself.
The End.
P.S. Writing this piece reminded me of high school English and those themes and character analysis essays. Never thought I'd willingly write another one of those again. I have you ladies to thank for this :-)
P.P.S. Trauma and any mental health conditions are as complex and vary in their presentations as the individuals who suffer from them. The presentation of trauma in this essay has been simplified for ease of writing. Please don't take it as representative of the condition.
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