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Lost You Forever

长相思 第一季 ‧ Drama ‧ 2023
 H19279:
She is Zuyu (Different way of spelling of Ju Li). She was a wooden demon who was nurtured and raised up by Qing Yang from a wooden stick.  Ju Li/Zu Yu was maid of Qing Yang when she became human form. She obeyed him unconditionally.  Her role to Qing Yang is similar to Kim Xuan or Xiao Xiao to CX. Qing Yang and Shao Hao used to joke or tell her many time that she had no heart and she was a fool. She had believed so. She did not know what is love and she did not know that she loved Qing Yang. Before the last battle, Ah Heng let her know that Qing Yang had died and never come back. She was super devastrated, disbelieved , she pointed to her chest that she felt super hurt there, but how come, she had no heart etc...

Eldest aunt in LYF is indeed Shen Nong Yuxang in Once Promised who got married to Qing Yang althought he had died by the marry but she and other people didn't know except Ah Heng, Shao Hao and Chang Yi couple

Oh okay. That's confusing. If Zhu Yu is Ju Li, then both Yu Xang and Zhu Yu / Ju Li were buried beside Qing Yang? That doesn't seem to match the number of graves? But the number of graves referenced in LYF already seems wrong... 

1 - Empress Lei Zhu

2 - Second Uncle

3 - Fourth Uncle / Chang Yi

4 - Fourth Aung / Chang Pu

5 - Ah Heng

6 - Eldest Uncle / Qing Yang

7 - Eldest Aunt / Yu Xang

8 - Auntie Ju Li (if she is not Yu Xang)

Unless Chang Yi and Chang Pu were buried in one grave together as a married couple and Qing Yang and Yu Xang were buried in one grave together as a married couple, with Ju Li / Zhu Yu in a separate grave beside them?

1 - Empress Lei Zhu

2 - Second Uncle

3 - Fourth Uncle / Chang Yi + Fourth Aunt / Chang Pu

4 - Eldest Uncle / Qing Yang + Eldest Aunt / Yu Xang

5 - Ju Li / Zhu Yu

6 - Ah Heng

-----

Chapter 15:

In the flower covered hilltop, there were six graves containing her grandmother, eldest uncle, eldest aunt, second uncle, fourth uncle and fourth aunt (Zhuan Xu’s parents), and her mom. But in truth, three of the graves were empty and had nothing inside.

She wasn’t sure what was in her eldest uncle’s grave and only saw dogwood flowers growing all over his grave site. Her eldest aunt was married to her eldest uncle but she was also the Sheng Nong Kingdom’s eldest princess. When the Sheng Nong Kingdom fell, she incinerated herself and left no corpse behind so what was buried in her grave was her wedding dress when she married into Xuan Yuan.

She didn’t know how her second uncle died, only that he left a blackened charred bone fragment which was buried in his grave.

Her fourth uncle who was Zhuan Xu’s dad, died at the same time as the Sheng Nong Kingdom’s General Zhu Rong (Little Zhu Rong’s dad). They were both burned alive and nothing was left. His grave was only his clothing. There was also the grave for her fourth aunt who committed suicide.

And then her mother who died with the Sheng Nong Kingdom’s Great General Qi Yo with neither leaving any corpse behind. Zhuan Xu said her mother’s grave contained her battle armor.

Because she knew her mother wasn’t in her grave, she never wanted to come visit. What could she pray to a battle armor? Gao Xing’s palace still had entire closets full of her mother’s clothes!

But when she was standing there with Zhuan Xu, she still felt sorrow even if her mind told her it was just a battle armor.

All their relatives who loved them were laying right here! Zhuan Xu knelt down and bowed to all the graves one by one and Xiao Yao followed suit. When he got to their eldest uncle’s grave, Zhuan Xu bowed an extra three times and said about the dogwood flowers growing all over, “This should be the manifestation of Auntie Zhu Yu who was a dogwood wood spirit who gained human form after thousands of years. She chose to kill herself to destroy the demon soul and remove all her god powers. I was at Gao Xing by then and didn’t understand why but Master told me not to be sad. He said Auntie Zhu Yu got what she wanted and passed in peace to be with our Eldest Uncle.”

Xiao Yao silently bowed three more times.

-----

Chapter 50:

Zhuan Xu turned his head and walked over to their Eldest Uncle’s grave and bowed three times. He also bowed three times to Auntie Ju Li’s grave beside it. He then cleared the weeds and Xiao Yao wiped her tears and walked over to join him. After bowing three times she started wiping down the tombs.

Each did their tasks silently, though Xiao Yao snuck a few peeks at Zhuan Xu but he never once glanced over at her.

After finishing the graves of their eldest uncle and eldest aunt, they went to clean their second uncle’s grave.

 blabla100:
I don't know, but I personally always belived that she was able to raise the bugs because she had already fallen for XL, otherwise no matter the magic behind them, she wouldn't been able to.

I disagree with this. My understanding is she got the walnut shell with a pair of bugs from the old woman begger. I don't know if the bugs would hibernate without feeding. She had been feeding/raising the bugs for several year before she planted it to CX due to urgent context. So by feeding the bug (in the drama it showed that she used her blood to feed them), the bug could grow up or change into active form. The feeding process can be considered similar to how we activated yeast for baking. It took her several years to make them ready for planting. She might know the way to raise/feed them via the knowledge in Jiu Li Poison Manuals Book that her mother gave her and Royal Mother forced her to memorize the content. I guess all the bugs can be feed or activate (from hibernate mode) in a similar way. Or at least the way she knew was also suitable for this particular bugs.

Her purpose of using bugs for XL is that she wanted to contain XL. She knew that she could not poison him. She was not capable of fighting against him. Keep in mind in the beginning, XL was quite violent to her. She might be afraid of he would eat her one day as tonic food. So planting her only bugs is the only way that she can control or prevent him from stubborn action on or beating her. As she said, she didn't want to kill him. This method seems to be most suitable for that purpose. Why did she need to use it for other. XL was her only threat. Therefore, she raised the bugs specially only for him as she told him later. 

The debate now included some point 

If she knew that it was Lovers' bugs from the beginning. In my opinion, she had not known it was Lovers' bug. If it were ordinary poison bugs (a pair of a mother and a child bug), it also had the characteristics of that the receiver would share the same pain as the original host. I think She thought it was ordinary poison bugs. Thus, love is not requirement for planting successfully. 

In the drama, it shows she tried to plant it on him once and fail but it was planted (let's say not fully) on CX. there are 2 possibilities for that:

  • XL at that time had no love/affection for her. And since he had very strong power, it might help to prevent the penetration of the bug
  • For CX, either it is because he has feeling (not romatic love yet) for XY (haha it seems the bugs could recognize the real identity of host and receiver) or because his resistance was not strong.  Anyway we all know that the planting was not successful. The walnut shell (house/incubator for the bugs in case of having no host) still existed. It was not plantly completely and successfully.

Moreover, as the veteran in the drama said, it is possible to deliberately plant it (without love) but it can cause enormous trouble. In the novel, according to Voodoo King it is also required love from the host and love and willingness from the receiver for successful planting. In the drama, by espisode 11 and 12, it is not clear if mutual love is required. At least it needed love and willingness from the receiver for moving the bugs from previous, unwilling receiver.  So by the time of transfering the bugs from CX to XL, at least it met 1 condition: the receiver was whole-heartedly willing and love the host. 

The bugs was maintainced and developed inside both host by being fed with LOVE. The bugs turned to heart-breaking bugs when one of them changed (meaning no more love).

The question is if WXL already had love toward XL by the transfering time. In my opinion, WXL did have romantic feeling for XL. The way WXL looked at him (TH describled his appearance under WXL's eyes). She for sure liked his look. It seemed like she admired him (his look, his powe, his intelligence, his devotion for Shennong army abeit his liberal demon nature ). She felt he could understand and share her past. That is why she could tell him about her past which she had never told anyone before.  She was willng to offer him blood later for healing or she helped him to get the herbal medicine back from CX. She cared for his safety (always said that he had to be back, he should not die). She felt bliss when he sucked her neck in the pond. There are many proof that she was attracted by XL.  She said her heart was strong and had a hard shell. So it is difficult to allow anyone into her heart. But actually that hard shell was twice got soften by XL: when they first met and when he brought her to observe the moon on the sea

When the aura of death came hurtling over Xiao Liu tumbled and tried to avoid it while saying “My lord, I really am Wen Xiao Liu. Maybe I’m not ONLY Wen Xiao Liu, but I have no intention to harm the resistance army under General Gong Gong. I don’t belong to the Kingdom of Xuan Yuan, or the Kingdom of Gao Xing, and not to the Kingdom of Sheng Nong. I am just……….”

Xiao Liu paused and thought “Who am I?”

He raised his head and allowed his entire expression to be seen by Xiang Liu “I am just someone who has been discarded. I have no ability to protect myself, I have no one to rely on, I have nowhere to go, so that is why I chose to be Wen Xiao Liu in Qing Shui Town. If my lord will allow, I wish that I could be Wen Xiao Liu for the rest of my life.”

Xiang Liu stared at him and Xiao Liu didn’t dare to move but the beads of cold sweat came down and there where unshed tears in his eyes because the hard protective shell placed in the last tens of years got forcibly peeled open. (chapter 2)

========

Xiang Liu didn’t answer and Furball descended until he was right up against the ocean surface. Xiang Liu got off the back of the condor and instead of falling in the water he was standing on the surface like it was land. He reached out his hand to Xiao Liu and he immediately grabbed it and slid off the condor. Furball was actually scared of water and immediately rose back into the air.

Xiang Liu strolled along the waves with Xiao Liu. There wasn’t a sliver of light, the ocean was pitch black, there was nothing ahead of them, there was nothing behind them. The world was so vast and Xiao Liu felt so miniscule as if a wave could swallow him at any time. He grabbed Xiang Liu’s hand tightly.

Xiang Liu suddenly stopped and Xiao Liu didn’t know why but he didn’t ask any questions. He inched closer to Xiang Liu and kept him company staring out towards the East. After some time, a moon rose from the edge of the ocean and the quiet beauty was so powerful that Xiao Liu felt the hard shell around his heart soften. In the sound of the ocean waves, Xiang Liu’s voice spoke “As long as there are such sights in this world, then life is very precious.”

Xiao Liu nattered “The most precious of sights will get old after seeing it too much. Only if someone views it with me. Views are dead, only if a person can appreciate it then the view has meaning.

And when she was back to Gaoxin becoming princess. She still thought of him when she swam, she still missed him because no one can try/taste her poison (she still made it. Is that for XL or for herself for protection) and she smiled, looking at the mirror with his images inside. On the beach, she said she was afraid of that if she did not pay attention, he might enter into her dream. This actually is her confession of he was already inside her heart. 

So, in my opinion, WXL already love XL. They have mutual love. And this fulilled the condition to (plant) raise/develop the bugs in their body. The bug never turned into heartbreaking bug because they always love each other. 

 AH :
Unless Chang Yi and Chang Pu were buried in one grave together as a married couple and Qing Yang and Yu Xang were buried in one grave together as a married couple, with Ju Li / Zhu Yu in a separate grave beside them

For sure that Chang Pu fell into Chang Yi tomb. They share the same grave. 

She wasn’t sure what was in her eldest uncle’s grave and only saw dogwood flowers growing all over his grave site. Her eldest aunt was married to her eldest uncle but she was also the Sheng Nong Kingdom’s eldest princess. When the Sheng Nong Kingdom fell, she incinerated herself and left no corpse behind so what was buried in her grave was her wedding dress when she married into Xuan Yuan.

The 6 graves are: Lei Zhu (grand mom). Qing Yang, Yuxang, 2nd uncle, Chang Yi and his wife in 1 grave, Ah Heng.

When he got to their eldest uncle’s grave, Zhuan Xu bowed an extra three times and said about the dogwood flowers growing all over, “This should be the manifestation of Auntie Zhu Yu who was a dogwood wood spirit who gained human form after thousands of years. She chose to kill herself to destroy the demon soul and remove all her god powers. I was at Gao Xing by then and didn’t understand why but Master told me not to be sad. He said Auntie Zhu Yu got what she wanted and passed in peace to be with our Eldest Uncle. 

There is no separate grave for Zuyu. She died and transformed to the flower plant next to Qing Yang's grave (cover his grave also?). She was maid, I don't think she was entitled to have grave next to royal family members' graves. Also, by the time she committed suicide, no one close to her such as CX was living in Xuan Yuan. I checked the translation in my language, it was not mentioned as Zuyu's grave as in your excerpt. 

 H19279:

I found this kind of censorship irrelevant for ancient works. In the past, people did not have knowledge gene deficiency due to close blooded marriage. It was common in the past (both Eastern and Western world) that close cousins could get married each other. How can such classic as "Dream of the Red Chamber" be regarded now? All main characters in that novel and drama are close cousin.

You know, the rules are specific to the countries where they apply. And conditions for applying censorship doesn't need to be relevant or to make sense in absolute terms...

I don't know the real reason why it has been modified like this. I just took a guess but I didn't have the same reason as you in mind. It seems to me that, in Chinese dramas, it is of the uttmost importance to preserve the dignity of highest political authorities and to show them at their best, especially if it's the ML. In this case, Emperor's ML isn't the endgame, so it would be awkward if his childhood sweetheart promise to but doesn't end up with him. 

Maybe someone better informed could enlighten us on this particular case and maybe it's not even due to censorship issues ?

opened for discussion,:)

I have sorted out the Lover Gu settings clearly stated in the book:

① There must be a pair of lovers, and both of them are willing to cultivate the poison successfully.

② The men and women affected by the poison have connected life lines and connected minds. If one person is hurt, the other person will be hurt, and if one person is hurt, the other person will be hurt as well.

③Even if one person is seriously injured, as long as the other person is vigorous, the seriously injured person can survive.

④The lover's voodoo is a pair of male and female voodoos, just like lovers in love. They have changeable tempers and are very difficult to control. The voodoos can easily backfire. Once an attack occurs, both of them will die.

⑤The man and woman who are possessed by the poison will either be born with the same heart or die apart from each other. Once the lover's poison is successfully planted, it cannot be solved.

⑥The lover's voodoo is "The plane trees on the ground treat each other as they grow old, the plaice in the sky will not fly alone, and the mandarin ducks in the water will both die." If one person dies, the other person cannot live alone.

Okay, now let's put it into perspective.

Controversy in Article 1: There must be a pair of lovers, and both of them are willing to cultivate the poison successfully.

Many people wonder why Zhuanxu can also plant the poison, and subsequently suspect that planting the lover's poison does not prove that two people are in love. These doubts are all because people mistakenly think that the two conditions for planting the lover's poison are concurrent conditions!

What I say next may make many people unbelievable, but please bear with me until I finish my analysis.

In fact, "having a lover" and "being willing" are two sequential conditions, and the latter is more demanding than the former.

This means that if you want to plant a voodoo, you must have a pair of lovers. If you are ruthless, the voodoo will not be able to get close to the other person's body. However, if you want the voodoo to fully exert its effect, that is, to truly successfully plant the voodoo, both people must be willingly.

So, everyone is wondering again, what kind of lovers are Zhuanxu and Xiaoyao?

Aren’t Zhuan Xu and Xiao Yao really lovers? In the beginning, at the beginning of everything, were Zhuanxu and Xiaoyao just simple brothers and sisters?


[" Xiaoliu asked: "You and Anian... are just brothers and sisters.love?

Xuan laughed softly, "This kind of question is very suitable to answer while drinking."

Xiaoliu poured him a large bowl. After Xuan drank it, he was stunned and didn't say anything for a long time. Xiaoliu poured him another bowl. Xuan drank it in one breath and took out a jade sachet that he wore close to his body to view the garden.]

Anyone with a discerning eye can see A-Nian's feelings for Zhuan Xu. Xiaoyao's question is actually: Do you only have a brother-sister relationship with A-Nian?

when Xiaoyao asked this sentence, she wanted to ask Zhuan Xu: Are you in love with A Nian?

Why is Xiaoyao so persistent in asking whether Zhuan Xu is in love with A Nian? In other words, if Xiaoyao and Zhuanxu are just siblings, does it have anything to do with whether Zhuanxu loves A-Nian or not?

[White fox tail, "This is my sister's treasure. When we parted, she gave it to me and said she would only lend it to me temporarily to play with. It has been more than three hundred years ago!"

Xuan gently stroked the white fox tail, "My sister is the daughter of my aunt and my master. I promised my aunt to take care of my sister, but I broke my promise. My sister disappeared when she was very young. They all said she was dead, but I always hugged her. Just in case, hoping that she is still alive, waiting for her to come back and get the fox tail back. A- Nian is also the master's daughter, and doting on her is like doting on a younger sister."

Xiaoliu seemed to be overwhelmed by the alcohol. He put his hand on his forehead and raised the wine bowl. While drinking, he quietly wiped away the moisture from the corners of his eyes.]

The "sister" here refers to Xiaoyao. Zhuanxu's words seriously answered Xiaoyao's question——

Zhuanxu's answer was: I already have someone in my heart, it's my cousin Xiaoyao, but they all say that Xiaoyao is dead, but I don't want to believe it. A-Nian is the master's daughter just like Xiao Yao, and doting on her is like doting on Xiao Yao.

This means that not only did Zhuan Xu belong to her, but even after Xiao Yao died, Zhuan Xu still refused to let go of Xiao Yao and fall in love with someone else. The reason why he loved A Nian so much was because A Nian was his master's daughter and Xiao Yao's sister.

[There are green mountains and vast mist, and a huge peach blossom blooms on the vast blue waves. Standing in the peach blossom is a graceful girl in green, just like a peach planted among the green mountains and green waters, capturing the essence of heaven and earth. The hair is covered with black hair hanging down like a waterfall, and there is a small crimson peach blossom on the forehead. The eyes are like a frightened deer, flickering and avoiding, not daring to look directly into people's eyes. She is as fresh as the morning dew condensed on the petals of peach blossoms.

This is my little sky! Zhuanxu felt the spring rain falling in his heart, and he couldn't say a word.]


Zhuan Xu initially acquiesced that Xiao Yao was his. Why? Because they made a private decision for life when they were very young! Even if the two of them didn't understand what "marry you" meant at that time, they should understand after they have experienced growth after separation.

[Looking at Zhuanxu who was meticulously saluting, Xiaotian kept a smile on her face, but she was not happy at all in her heart. During the stumbling and wandering, she and Zhuanxu had grown up, and Zhuanxu was actually married. But this wedding was not what Xiaotian had imagined when she was little.

Scenes from the past came to mind: I still remember the grand wedding between my eldest uncle and Shennong Wangji, and she and Zhuanxu quarreled, and Zhuanxu said that the married daughter had thrown water; I also remember that after the fourth aunt committed suicide, Zhuanxu had nightmares every night, and she comforted her. He said that I will always be with you. Zhuanxu said that sooner or later you will get married and leave me. She naively said that I will not marry anyone else, but I will marry you...

Across the crowds of people and the loud music, Zhuanxu looked at Xiaotian. When their eyes met, both of them had flawless happy smiles on their faces: No matter what, at least we are still alive and well, as long as we continue to be good. Just live on, nothing else matters! ]


Why was Xiaoyao so unhappy when Zhuanxu got married for the first time? Because the childhood sweetheart who was once privately married to someone else is now married to someone else! Although they no longer have that kind of relationship and are just simple brothers and sisters, they are still somewhat confused and emotional.

<But this wedding was not what Xiaoyao had imagined when she was a child. >So what did Xiaoyao imagine Zhuanxu's wedding look like when she was a child? The latter part was her imagination. She once thought that the person who married Zhuan Xu was herself.

Then when the two of them looked at each other, they both thought: Although this wedding is not what we originally promised, as long as we can live well, none of this matters!

If the above does not prove that Xiaoyao once had feelings for Zhuanxu, then look at the following paragraph:
[Zhuanxu's question is: If I keep an eye on you, will you choose me instead of Jing?

Xiaoyao answered Zhuanxu clearly: In the cage of the nine-tailed fox, I only survived those thirty years by missing you. From very early on, I valued you more than my life.

This means that Xiaoyao had feelings for Zhuanxu from the beginning.]

That's why two people can plant the poison. However, it is not enough for two people to be in love. The cultivation must be "willing" to be truly successful. There are many lovers in the world, but there are not many lovers who are willing to plant the lover's poison. Why? because:

④The lover's voodoo is a pair of male and female voodoos, just like lovers in love. They have changeable tempers and are very difficult to control. The voodoos can easily backfire. Once an attack occurs, both of them will die.

⑤The man and woman who are possessed by the poison will either be born with the same heart or die apart from each other. Once the lover's poison is successfully planted, it cannot be solved.

⑥The Lover's Gu is "The sycamore trees on the ground are in stalemate, the plaice in the sky will not fly alone, and the mandarin ducks in the water will both die." If one person dies, the other person cannot live alone.

Love also has depth. How much love do you have to be willing to bear the consequences of the above risks?
[Xiang Liu sat beside the peach blossom boat and stared at the sleeping Xiaotian.

He said softly: "The plane trees on the ground are growing old, and the flying birds in the sky are not alone.

Flying, the mandarin ducks in the water will both die, the lover's poison will lead to the same fate, indeed

It’s impossible to solve! Back then, I was able to help Zhuanxu solve the poison, just because Zhuanxu

It's not that you willingly planted the poison. You didn't really give him the poison at all.

Plant. But I am willing to let you sow the poison! You

You asked me again and again to solve the poison, but I kept telling you that I couldn’t solve it.

I know you don't believe it, but I didn't lie to you. I really understand.

No poison!"]


Finally, this passage from Xiang Liu once again confirms my above analysis. If Zhuan Xu did not have a lover, there is no need for Xiang Liu to directly cross the threshold of "having a lover" and say "Zhuan Xu is not willing", because "willing" means On the basis of affection, this affection must be particularly deep to be willing to do so. Zhuanxu was a lover, so he could plant the voodoo, but Zhuanxu was not willing to do so, so the planting was not successful. This allowed Xiaoyao to attract the voodoo to Xiang Liu.

Xiang Liu was willing to be bewitched by Xiao Yao, but the prerequisite was that the two of them had feelings for each other. If Xiao Yao was ruthless, let alone the success of the seed, there would be no way for the poison to be transferred from Zhuan Xu to Xiang Liu.

[Xiaoliu held the hickory nuts tightly in his palms and muttered words, stimulating the poison in his body.
After a while, Xiao Liu felt his heart beating rapidly, but what was very strange was that he could also feel another heart beating. The two hearts were like friends reunited after a long separation, beating in harmony. Xiao Liu hesitantly stretched out his hand and put it against Xiang Liu's chest, which was really his heart.

Xiao Liu asked in disbelief: "The poison has been planted in your body? So fast?" ]


Let's all recall that it took several days for Xiaoyao to plant the voodoo for Zhuanxu, but it took a while for him and Xiang Liu to plant the voodoo. This shows that the speed of planting the voodoo is also related to the depth of the relationship between the two.

After Zhuanxu planted the Gu, the pecans did not disappear, because Zhuanxu was not willing, and the Gu was not fully planted successfully. On the other hand, Xiaoyao and Xiang Liu, the pecans disappeared, which means that their lover Gu was truly planted successfully, because Xiang Liu is willing.

Controversy in Article 2: The men and women affected by the poison are connected in life and mind. If one person is hurt, the other will be hurt, and if one is hurt, the other will be hurt.

Everyone should have no doubt that "their lives are connected". So, do Xiaoyao and Xiang Liu have the same intention? There are actually many examples in the book where Xiaoyao and Xiangliu are connected. I will just list two here:
[Xiaoliu's heart suddenly moved and she felt someone was calling her. She said to Shiqi: "Go to the beach."

Shi Qi carried Xiao Liu down the stone steps and walked through the woods to Huliang Garden.]
[Xiaotian urged the Gu insect to move and said silently in his heart: Xiang Liu, I want to see you!

The moon is bright and clear, the lake is sparkling, but Xiang Liu has not appeared for a long time. Xiaotian couldn't help shouting: "Xiang Liu, I know you can feel it! Come out and see me!"]


These two people can communicate with each other directly by activating the Gu insect. Isn’t this called a connection of minds?

"When one person is in pain, the other person will also be in pain." The controversial part about this sentence is that it seems that only Xiang Liu feels Xiao Yao's pain. Has Xiao Yao felt Xian Liu's pain? some: [Xiaotian's heart felt like being penetrated by a sharp sword, and there was severe pain. Her limbs spasmed in pain, and she fell to the ground, lying on the grass in an awkward manner.

Xiang Liu was like a creator god who controlled her life and death. He looked down at her indifferently: "If you don't want to die, don't say a word that you shouldn't say!"]

Lover's Gu: A female and a male are equally powerful. They can only control the Gu in their own bodies, but they cannot control the other! Moreover, Xiaoyao and Xiangliu love each other deeply, and there is no way to say who has a deeper love.

So the reality here is that Xiang Liu deliberately failed to suppress the Gu worm in his body and allowed Xiao Yao to feel his heartache.

As for why Xiang Liu can suppress the Gu insects, I have two speculations here: First, it may be because the Gu insects are from the same family, and Xiang Liu is the strongest beast in the world. He can control the monsters in the sea at will. It can also suppress Gu insects; secondly, Xiang Liu has nine heads and nine lives, so he has a special physique. For example, when he is doing Fangfengbei, can he not also control his own anti-virus physique, so that he can really be poisoned by Xiaoyao? , and the nerve center that feels pain is in the human cerebral cortex. He has nine heads. He only needs to use one head to feel pain, and then move the lifeline of Lover Gu to the lifeline where he cannot feel pain. .

"When one person is hurt, the other person will be hurt too." Let me give you a clip of Xiaoyao feeling Xiang Liu: [Xiaotian didn't know why, but he felt as if he was sinking to the bottom of the water again, even though he was on the surface of the water, and his chest felt very tight. She suddenly remembered something, took out her wet purse, took out a small jade bottle, poured out a handful of colorful pills, spread them out in the palm of her hand and showed them to Xiang Liu, "Would you like to try them?"]

This is where Xiaoyao felt Xiang Liu's "injury", and it was actually Xiang Liu who felt "suffocated in the chest". It was precisely because Xiao Yao felt Xiang Liu's sadness that she deliberately took out poison to coax Xiang Liu.

③Even if one person is seriously injured, as long as the other person is vigorous, the seriously injured person can survive.

There shouldn't be any controversy about this, please refer to Thirty-Seven Years Under the Sea and Yushan.

④The lover's voodoo is a pair of male and female voodoos, just like lovers in love. They have changeable tempers and are very difficult to control. The voodoos can easily backfire. Once an attack occurs, both of them will die.

Since Xiaoyao and Xiangliu have really planted the poison, then every one of them will be effective. The reason why Xiaoyao is still alive and well can only show that the poison in her body has never attacked. She has always loved Xiang Liu, and her feelings for Xiang Liu are as solid as a rock and have never wavered!

⑤The man and woman who are possessed by the poison will either be born with the same heart or die apart from each other. Once the lover's poison is successfully planted, it cannot be solved.

When I talked about the first controversy above, I posted Xiang Liu's words. He really couldn't solve the poison and could only trap him with his life.

[Xiang Liu picked up Xiaotian's hand, used his finger as a knife, and cut it between the two of them.

A line of spells was drawn horizontally and vertically on the palm, and flesh and blood flew.

Bones can be seen deep down. "Although I can't remove the poison, I can kill it.

it. "Xiang Liu had a smile on his lips and held Xiao Tian's hand tightly.

The two palms were closed together, flesh and blood blended together, and it was no longer clear whose blood it was.

Rou, "But don't blame me for lying to you. You didn't ask!" ]


⑥The lover's voodoo is "The plane trees on the ground treat each other as they grow old, the plaice in the sky will not fly alone, and the mandarin ducks in the water will both die." If one person dies, the other person cannot live alone.

There is no controversy about this. If Xiaoyao and Xiangliu's voodoo had not been caused by Xiangliu's death, Xiaoyao would not be able to survive alone. Xiaoyao can still live well.

To sum up, none of the lovers' Gu settings clearly given in the book are bugs. Xiaoyao and Xiang Liu were in love with each other long before they planted the Gu, and they never parted ways until Xiang Liu killed the Gu with his life.
Not only have they never been apart, the love that was like a "little tiger" when the two first planted the poison has long since unknowingly turned into a love like a "thousand-year tiger demon".



 blabla100:
@AH

I don't know, but I personally always belived that she was able to raise the bugs because she had already fallen for XL, otherwise no matter the magic behind them, she wouldn't been able to. The Voodoo king even says that if a girl wants to raise the bugs, her determination its what makes the difference, he didn't really insisted or even mentioned the spells needed, as if that it's not the most important thing in their succese rate. We know XY was very determined to poison XL, but what exactly does this "I'm going to poison you" stands for? We know it's not used in the literal meaning, because obviously she didn't actually want to kill him, so could it be that it has a methaporical meaning, maybe something along the lines of "I am going to make it to your heart eventually? I don't know exactly how to describe the picture I have în my mind about this whole lover's bug subject, especially în a different language, but the thing is XL and XY are extremely similar, so there is no question în my mind that if XL accepted the bug out of love for her, XY has been able to raise the bug for the same reason, either she was aware of that at that time or not. If she didn't love him, I honestly doubt that the bugs could have grown just by  incantations.

I do think XY happened to have love in her heart for XL by the time the bug is transferred from CX to XL. 

I'm not so sure about her feelings when she was cultivating the bugs. 

And I don't think the text supports the idea that love was needed to cultivate the bugs. 

 blabla100:
The Voodoo king even says that if a girl wants to raise the bugs, her determination its what makes the difference, he didn't really insisted or even mentioned the spells needed, as if that it's not the most important thing in their succese rate.

The Voodoo King says:

The Voodoo King’s face scrunched up. “The Lover’s Bug – either live in love or die in heartbreak. Once the Lover’s Bug has been planted there is no way to break the spell. It is impossible. This is what I was trying to say earlier for why so few people raise it despite the great benefit. Only very determined girls would raise the bug but even if they successfully raise it, it’s near impossible to find a man willing to accept the other bug to be planted in him.”

I read this as the Voodoo King basically saying: "Once established, the Lovers' Bug connection is for life. It can't be undone. Which is daunting. Most people would not accept irreversibly tying their life and emotions to another person's life and emotions like that. So if a person knew that the bugs were Lovers' Bugs (XY didn't), and they still decided to go ahead and raise the bugs, knowing that it would be very difficult (nearly impossible) to find someone who would willingly accept the bug, then that decision reflects a certain amount of determination."

I don't see it as the Voodoo King saying that it would not be possible to raise the bugs without love or determination.

And he says that even if someone successfully raises the bug, they may never find someone willing to receive it. Which suggests that the bugs can be raised successfully without a particular recipient in mind. 

 blabla100:
We know XY was very determined to poison XL, but what exactly does this "I'm going to poison you" stands for? We know it's not used in the literal meaning, because obviously she didn't actually want to kill him, so could it be that it has a methaporical meaning, maybe something along the lines of "I am going to make it to your heart eventually?

Initially, I do believe XY really wanted to poison XL. 

XY figured out pretty early on that the poisons she makes for XL make him stronger. I think there was still a long period where she still wanted to find a poison that could affect XL (as a point of pride and also as a means of defending herself), but I don't think she ever believed that any of her poisons would really kill him. Even if the poison was deadly on its own, I'm sure she would have had the antidote. Plus she knows that XL has nine lives. If she really killed him once, he'd still have plenty more lives and would presumably not be very happy with her. 

And over time her poison-making slowly turned into an outlet for her feelings. When she first figured out that XL was consuming her poisons for his own benefit, she put in effort to make them taste awful. But by chapter 16 she puts her feelings into them and put a lot of effort into making them beautiful. And by chapter 19 she has mastered creating incredible tastes and scents, in addition to making her poisons beautiful. 

-----

Chapter 2:

“I’m not scared of him. I don’t believe there is a poison in this world that won’t fell him. When I create that poison one day, I will…” Xiao Liu used his hand to make a fist crushing something.

...

Except occasionally a mall-white condor would come find Xiao Liu, bringing something and taking away something. Xiao Liu made the poison for Xiang Liu but always held something back. Each poison was beyond deadly and it fit his requirement, but then it would have an odd color or smell. Whatever the reason, it was impossible to use it to kill a powerful person under tight protection.

Xiao Liu thought that, as time passed, Xiang Liu would come and raise a fuss but Xiang Liu appeared to not care about “color, smell, and taste” and as long as the poison met his specifications he accepted it all.

Xiao Liu used his haphazard medical and poison skills to deduce that Xiang Liu was a very unique being and his power came from using poison to train. All the poison that Xiao Liu produced was likely consumed by him.

After he figured it out, Xiao Liu breathed a sigh of relief, and then proceeded to make the most horrible tasting poison ever.

...

After Ma Zi’s wedding, Nine Lives Xiang Liu would occasionally come and sit in the clinic courtyard and drink a few cups of Xiao Liu’s wine and nibble on a few of Xiao Liu’s snacks. When he left his face never even changed expressions and his heartbeat never once skipped a beat. Xiang Liu’s very attitude of not taking Xiao Liu seriously is exactly what pissed Xiao Liu off.

When Xiao Liu entered the medical profession, it all began with the wrong intentions. He wanted to learn to kill someone and not to learn to save someone. Yet here was Xiang Liu eating his poison like candy! Xiao Liu thought and thought and decided to keep on learning, learning how to kill someone. He vowed to keep walking down the wrong path with the goal of poisoning this big demon sooner or later!

-----

Chapter 16: 

Xiao Yao started spending more time developing her poisons. Late into the night, she would lay on the pallet playing with her poisons and thinking of how to make it even better in terms of prettier and not necessarily more poisonous.

She had memorized the Sheng Nong Herb Manuel left by the Flame Emperor, who the entire world regarded as the progenitor of medicine. She also flipped through all the Gao Xing and Xuan Yuan medical books. She didn’t doubt her poison's ability to be deadly, she just wanted to make it look pretty. She stared at the phoenix flower and researched a few days and worked a few nights and finally created a perfect replica of the small red phoenix flower with the same intoxicating fragrance. She made the poison layered on it like the morning dew.

Every one of her poisons was one of her longing, one of her missing, one of her feelings. She created it and watched it come to life in her hands, and then carefully put it away to send out.

Xiao Yao wondered what Xiang Liu would think when he saw the poisons? Would he call her a weirdo pervert?

Xiao Yao put the finished poisons in boxes and went to the messenger service run by the Tu Shan clan and handed it to them. “Deliver this to the Qing Shui Town brothel.”

Xiao Yao paid the expensive price to deliver it to the edge of Xuan Yuan and didn’t blink an eye since it wasn’t her money.

This was Xiao Yao’s solution to deal with Xiang Liu. The entire world was covered with the Tu Shan messenger network so if Xiao Yao had money then she could send it to Qing Shui Town. She had been sending him poisons every 3-4 months, the last time sent from Gao Xing. She wondered if Xiang Liu got it? He ought to, otherwise with his petty personality, no matter how busy he was he would find time to cause her trouble.

-----

Chapter 19:

Zhi Jin Peak, a bright and glorious morning.

Xiao Yao was tending to the fire pit and her face was bright red with sweat dotting her forehead.

She felt the time was right and put on her gloves before opening the cover of the pot to take out the mold. She put it inside a pail of ice water until the mold solidified. Xiao Yao poured the mold out and individual mold pieces tumbled on the table, some pink, others green, and even yellow.

Zhuan Xu walked into this “medicine making room” and saw Xiao Yao intent on her work. He said nothing and stood in the corner to watch quietly. There were colorful molds strewn all over the table but the shapes were odd. Some looked like flower petals, others like leaves, he really couldn’t figure out what she was making.

Xiao Yao took out a rectangular glass plate, it was dark on both ends and white in the middle like the backdrop of an ink portrait with nothing on it.

Xiao Yao used a brush and covered the white part once with a liquid.

Xiao Yao washed her hands and then put it in the ice water for some time before wiping it with a clean cloth. She then picked up the molds from earlier and used a small paring knife to start carving the molds. She finished one and would put it on the plate as if she was painting on it.

Zhuan Xu was curious so walked over and he saw Xiao Yao’s slender fingers expertly at work and gradually the white plate was covered with a green lily frond and there was dew on it that appeared like it was about to slide off. A pink lily appeared and the yellow nectar inside formed. Within the lilies two salmon peeked out from under the water shyly.

The entire morning passed and an entire salmon frolicking in a lily pond tableau was created. Other than having no sound, everything was there, even the scent of the lilies.

Xiao Yao stared at it intently and then smiled in satisfaction.

Zhuan Xu clapped. “Scent, visuals, and taste – it’s all there. Makes me want to take a bite.”

Xiao Yao made a face at him. “It’s all poison.”

Zhuan Xu shook his head. “Can’t figure out what this weird hobby of yours is. Who makes poisons into a delicacy. Your poison making room is pretty much a kitchen.”

Xiao Yao carefully picked up the plate and put it inside a box before shutting it and wrapping it up in a cloth.

Zhuan Xu asked warily, “You can’t be giving that to someone?”

Xiao Yao laughed. “Secret.”

Zhuan Xu sighed. “I can’t decide if you like this person, or hate this person.”

After a morning of sitting Xiao Yao’s back ached and she rubbed her back and asked, “How come you have time to come watch me make poisons?”

...

Xiao Yao smiled and placed a white wrapped box in front of Fang Feng Bei.

Bei glanced over it and drawled, “What’s that?”

Xiao Yao said, “You open it.”

Bei shook his cup, “I’m drinking right now.”

Xiao Yao clenched her fist – be patient, be patient, be patient! She released her fist and opened the cloth cover over the box.

Bei was still uninterested and continued drinking his wine and watching the dancer dancing.

Xiao Yao had no choice but to open the box herself. When she made it, to create the scent of the lilies she spent a lot of time on it. Right now the scent of the lilies were lost in the pungent odor of the food and the perfumes around them so it wasn’t noticeable anymore.

Xiao Yao rushed here excitedly with a whole bellyful of things she wanted to say to him. She wanted to boast about how she made the poison lilies, how she made the leaf covers, but now the entire salmon frolicking in the lilies tableau turned dim and she didn’t feel like saying anything anymore. She picked up her wine and started drinking and pouting.

Bei finally turned his gaze from the dancer to the table and checked out the tableau on the glass plate. It was delicate and full of life, the colors vibrant and the items exquisitely rendered.

Bei stared for some time before picking up a chopstick and eating a lily frond.

One bite after another, one lily frond, one salmon, one lily…..slowly he ate the entire salmon frolicking in lilies tableau.

Xiao Yao gaped at him “You….don’t stuff yourself silly.”

Bei shot her a look and she immediately shut up.

Bei ate the final bite and put down his chopstick. He took a sip of wine and casually said, “Not bad.”

Xiao Yao stared at the empty plate and her heart soared. “The only person who can make poisons this tasty in the entire world is me!”

Bei laughed back, “And the only person in the entire world who can appreciate your great “cooking” talents is me!”

Xiao Yao sassed back, “It’s enough to have a true zhiji.”

Bei gave her a half-smile but said nothing.

Xiao Yao asked, “Can you continue teaching me archery now?” What she really meant to ask was – are you not angry at me anymore?

Bei finished his wine. “I need to leave for a bit, wait for me to come back.”

Xiao Yao figured he was going back to Qing Shui town. Even if there was no active warfare, he was still the General of the Sheng Nong resistance army and there was much he had to do.

Xiao Yao couldn’t help it and sighed loudly and murmured, “If only you can forever be Fang Feng Bei, that would be so great.”

Bei appeared not to have heard her as he set down his wine cup and got up to leave, his form disappearing in the layers of curtains.

@H19279

"The question is if WXL already had love toward XL by the transfering time. In my opinion, WXL did have romantic feeling for XL." 

IMO that's not really questionable, for sure she already had fellings for him by the time they transferred the bugs, otherwise we wouldn't be talking about lover's bugs, but about heartbreak's bugs. Also I belive XL was quite sure of XY's feelings, he already knew what type of bugs they  are and how they work,  so without a doubt he didn't accept the bug as a test, like he's not going to risk his life just because he was curious about what XY feels for him, he accepted the bug because he knew XY grew it for him and there's no danger by doing so. Inside her body, with her own flesh and blood (the blood sharing is quite a recurrent theme when it comes to XL and XY),  but that's the method, not the requirements. It must to be more to its difficulty than just the method, otherwise why is it that hard to raise these bugs? Perhaps the mom-child bugs are easy to raise because the love of a mother for her child îs almost always a certainty, but that's not the case when it comes to romantic love / lover's bugs. As far as I remember both the Lover's Bugs and mom-child bugs have the same purpose aka estabilsh a connection between them, but maybe they also work by the same set of rules, which is love, both in raising  and in planting. 

Also this 

"If she told you how to raise the bugs, how could she not have told you what the name of this particular voodoo bug was?”

I am not saying XY knew what type of bugs these are, because I don't belive so, but I belive what XL is implying here is that the way these bugs are raised is connected to their name, as in if you know how to raise them, how can you possible not know / figure it out their names? 

As I said before, their hearts beat the same,  they are very similar to each other,  they shared things during that period of time that only they knew about, so why is it hard to belive that they both have fallen for each other at about the same time? I don't see why it's a given to assume that it's easier for someone as XL to fall for XY, than it is for XY to fall for him. 

 H19279:
There is no separate grave for Zuyu. She died and transformed to the flower plant next to Qing Yang's grave (cover his grave also?). She was maid, I don't think she was entitled to have grave next to royal family members' graves. Also, by the time she committed suicide, no one close to her such as CX was living in Xuan Yuan. I checked the translation in my language, it was not mentioned as Zuyu's grave as in your excerpt. 

So are you saying that when ZX/CX bows to Ju Li's grave beside Qing Yang's grave in chapter 50, he is just bowing to the dogwood flowers and not an actual grave? 

Or in the Vietnamese version of chapter 50, does it say that the grave beside Qing Yang's grave belongs to Yu Xang instead of Ju Li? Or does it not mention ZX/CX bowing to a separate grave beside Qing Yang's at all?

-----

Chapter 50:

Zhuan Xu turned his head and walked over to their Eldest Uncle’s grave and bowed three times. He also bowed three times to Auntie Ju Li’s grave beside it. He then cleared the weeds and Xiao Yao wiped her tears and walked over to join him. After bowing three times she started wiping down the tombs.

Each did their tasks silently, though Xiao Yao snuck a few peeks at Zhuan Xu but he never once glanced over at her.

After finishing the graves of their eldest uncle and eldest aunt, they went to clean their second uncle’s grave.

 windiaaa041293:
opened for discussion,:)

I found your analysis very convincing. 

The only loophole of the Lovers' bugs theory is that the bug didn't react (change to heart-breaking bug). when XY had feeling, itimacy with Jing. It is a kind of unfaithfullness. Why the bugs did not back-fire. 

So The voodoo said "Only very determined girls would raise the bug but even if they successfully raise it, it’s near impossible to find a man willing to accept the other bug to be planted in him.". So the girl wanted her lover to absolutely committed to her but then she herself still had room for a kind of unfaithfullness. 

 blabla100:
Also this

"If she told you how to raise the bugs, how could she not have told you what the name of this particular voodoo bug was?”

I am not saying XY knew what type of bugs these are, because I don't belive so, but I belive what XL is implying here is that the way these bugs are raised is connected to their name, as in if you know how to raise them, how can you possible not know / figure it out their names? 

I don't interpret it that way. XY clearly knew how to raise the bugs (thanks to the Jiu Li Poison Manual) and did not know that the bugs were Lovers' Bugs. She tells CX about the Jiu Li Poison Manual in chapter 22 and she is surprised to learn that her bugs are Lovers' Bugs in chapter 26. 

I read XL's comments as basically saying, "If that old lady went to the trouble of telling you how to raise these bugs, surely she would have told you what they were called? Since you clearly don't know what they're called, I don't believe that the old lady told you how to raise them. You must have gotten that knowledge from another source." Which is true. XY told CX in chapter 22 that she got her knowledge of how to raise the bugs from the Jiu Li Poison Manual, not from the old lady who gave her the walnut. 

 AH :
So are you saying that when ZX/CX bows to Ju Li's grave beside Qing Yang's grave in chapter 50, he is just bowing to the dogwood flowers and not an actual grave

He bowed to the plant. 

 AH :
. When he got to their eldest uncle’s grave, Zhuan Xu bowed an extra three times and said about the dogwood flowers growing all over, “This should be the manifestation of Auntie Zhu Yu who was a dogwood wood spirit who gained human form after thousands of years.

He did extra 3 times when he bowed to his Eldest uncle because the plant (Zuyu) covered his grave (in chapter 15) it was clear that there was no grave for Zuyu

I think you were confused because of the part in chapter 50. Below is that part in vietnamese version translated by google translate

CX turned away, went to his eldest uncle's grave, knelt down, bowed three times, then turned to bow three times to Aunt Zuyu. After that, he continued to diligently removing the weed. XY wiped away her tears, she walked over, knelt down to worship, then turned around to clean the tombstone.

P/s: Zu Yu is the name of that flower, too (in chinise). 

 H19279:
So The voodoo said "Only very determined girls would raise the bug but even if they successfully raise it, it’s near impossible to find a man willing to accept the other bug to be planted in him.". So the girl wanted her lover to absolutely committed to her but then she herself still had room for a kind of unfaithfullness.

I don't see how you're arriving at that conclusion based on the Voodoo King's words. 

When it comes to what would cause the bugs to turn on each other, there's no indication that the rules apply differently to the cultivator vs. the recipient. 

 H19279:
He did extra 3 times when he bowed to his Eldest uncle because the plant (Zuyu) covered his grave. 

I think you were confused because of the part in chapter 50. Below is that part in vietnamese version translated by google translate

CX turned away, went to his eldest uncle's grave, knelt down, bowed three times, then turned to bow three times to Aunt Zuyu. After that, he continued to diligently removing the weed. XY wiped away her tears, she walked over, knelt down to worship, then turned around to clean the tombstone.

P/s: Zu Yu is the name of that flower, too (in chinise).

Thank you for this! That clarifies it. 

Koala's translation specifically mentions a separate grave for Zhu Yu / Ju Li. Maybe she added that extra word thinking it would add clarity when it instead created confusion. 

 AH :

I don't see how you're arriving at that conclusion based on the Voodoo King's words. 

When it comes to what would cause the bugs to turn on each other, there's no indication that the rules apply differently to the cultivator vs. the recipient. 

What I mean here is that how is planted, works on XY-XL is very clear and reasonable. The only loophole of the bugs is when XY had feeling for other man (Jing). Why is there no consequence? I try to figure a logical answer for that? I don't care if her feeling for Jing is romatic or plantonic love , I believe there is a strong feeling between her and Jing. Does the bug still allow multiple love on the host? Then it's strange. Because when girl wanted to plant it to her lover, both wanted that they were loyal in love for each other till the end

@H19279

"The only loophole of the bugs is when XY had feeling for other man (Jing). Why is there no consequence? I try to figure a logical answer for that? I don't care if her feeling for Jing is romatic or plantonic love, I believe there is a strong feeling between her and Jing. "

Either it's platonic or romantic does matter a lot, otherwise it would have been game over from the start, not because of Jing, but because of CX. 

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