As a picky novel reader, this feels like a reminder that when drama creators don't include a scene from the novel, sometimes it's actually a kindness as the version of the scene that they would've included would be too different from the original for such a picky novel reader to bear. 😄AH :
White wings do look nice with XL's all-white aesthetic though. 😊
It's like they merged XL with MQ to give him wings :-).
The technology is probably not there yet, or the budget just didn't allow them to do the whirlpool scene well. It was clear that the budget for special effects was low for the drama - we still remember the faucet blood, lol.
One-to-one adaptation isn't feasible or even necessary, IMO. It's more about conveying the meaning. They could have adapted or included a scene to capture what the whirlpool scene presents, but with the numerous changes in the drama, I think they were heading for a different interpretation and feel from the novel. Oh well, we'll always have the book.
It's like they merged XL with MQ to give him wings :-).HeadInTheClouds:
It is!
The technology is probably not there yet, or the budget just didn't allow them to do the whirlpool scene well.
It did also seem like they heavily condensed the story and consolidated a lot of events that were somewhat repetitive, and that included some of the assassination attempts against XY but also things like XY's "wedding" to TSJ in absentia and the Queen Mother of Jade Mountain ceremony.
It was clear that the budget for special effects was low for the drama - we still remember the faucet blood, lol.
Omg I had somewhat forgotten that.
So bad!
One-to-one adaptation isn't feasible or even necessary, IMO.
Agreed. And a truly great adaptation can even improve upon the source material.
Although I'll be the first to admit that when I'm really attached to the source material I do tend to hate seeing things changed, even in the case of necessary / reasonable changes.
They could have adapted or included a scene to capture what the whirlpool scene presents, but with the numerous changes in the drama, I think they were heading for a different interpretation and feel from the novel.
It kind of reminds me of Ella Enchanted. I remember being so excited when I heard it was going to be turned into a movie and so disappointed when I saw what kind of movie it was. And it's not a bad movie. The movie and the source material just have very different vibes.
Oh well, we'll always have the book.
<3
Cathy trades love for status and wealth. Xiao Yao trades love for stability and someone who will care for her like a mother for her child. To me, it's all similar.MountainPine:
Indeed, they both chose other objectives over love. Despite her love for Heathcliff and her absolute declaration, "I am Heathcliff" - i.e., we are two people with the same soul (a bit like the Lover Bug's bond, isn't it?)- she decided to marry Edgar. Her decision to marry Edgar wasn't out of love for him, but for what he could give her - wealth and status. Much like XY choosing TSJ for what he could give her. Unlike Tong Hua, Emily Brontë showed Cathy awareness of her emotions and motives. I don't have issues with Cathy or XY's pragmatic decision. On a deeper level, you can see both choices as rooted in a lack of security. In Victorian England, a woman had limited means of securing her financial safety; marriage was often the only way to ensure her status and livelihood. The other thing was that Heathcliff's "otherness" - never explicited state, but hinted at - would have been a major barrier to his upward mobility and acceptance by society. To Cathy, marriage to Heathcliff would mean poverty and ostracism from society. Her assertion that "marrying Heathcliff would degrade me" showed her awareness of the society that she moved in, despite her young age (15 at this point in the story). It's a pity that most adaptations omit this aspect of Heathcliff's ambiguous racial identity.
But in Wuthering Heights, the author doesn't hide the true nature of the heroine. And she doesn't try to tell us that Cathy made the right choice.
Agreed. This is probably the difference between literature and a work with the ultimate goal of being a romance. That, of course, doesn't stop people from trying to reduce poor Wuthering Heights to "the most romantic love story" and being overwhelmingly focused on the romance. Which is what happened in the newest movie adaptation. An aside: I enjoyed the movie more than I expected, but "a smooth-brain adaptation" is a darn accurate review of it, lol.
On the contrary, the author punishes them both. Cathy suffers during her life, and after death she becomes a ghost who wanders the moors in search of a home, and Heathcliff, after he destroyed her life and brought her to her death, finally turns into a monster.
I don't see it as deliberate punishment so much as the consequences of their actions.
Emily Brontë never justified or excused Heathcliff's or Catherine’s behaviour, and never shied away from the destruction that their relationship wrought to themselves and others. She showed Catherine's spoiled, petty and vicious spitefulness. She didn't romanticise Heathcliff; she was quite clear about the danger of romanticising Heathcliff through the character of Isabella Linton. His deliberate cruelty towards Isabella and Hareton were things that no amount of sad childhood could justify.
This isn't the case for Lost You Forever, where XY's unfortunate childhood was some kind of shield against criticism, and her poor behaviour and choices never get addressed. I feel that TH wrote things in a way that reduced criticism of XY. Probably to ensure that she remains likable or something. This was also noticeable with the writing for Jing. The first half quite clearly shows his flaws and lack of character, but they were whitewashed, ignored, or buried in the third book to give the "not a tragedy ending". I think these things are what gave us the "The Emperor Has No Clothes" feeling. I did wonder whether Tong Hua originally planned a different ending but changed her mind, which might explain the TSJ character's disjointedness. I did read an analysis that offered some support for this theory, but, regardless, the unsatisfying ending was the final work we ended up with.
The closure I got is powerful, the peace ant the end of the story sounds overwhelmingly. This piece is completed.
It's like a beautiful symphony, that was cut suddenly on a most emotional note and then you ask - for what it was even started to play?
I like how you explained the difference between the two works - a complete piece vs. a truncated one. Finishing this novel left me feeling disappointed, rather than satisfied. And it wasn't because XY and XL couldn't be together or because XL died, but because the work felt emotionally dishonest. As the female lead and emotional core of the story, XY was fragmented. In her quest to hide the XL/XY loveline, the author deliberately chose to obscure XY's inner thoughts and feelings, leaving the character without emotional integrity or honesty. This is probably my biggest issue with this character. I've mentioned my issue with Jing above. XL was also affected by the author's ultimate objective, but overall, he was the character who felt the most consistent and complete. (And poor Cang Xuan is once again overlooked :-)).
Lost You Forever may be a clever showing of technical skills, but no amount of razzle-dazzle literary techniques can make up for a work that feels emotionally dishonest. So in the end, I can say that I don't like Lost You Forever. I barely cared about the XY/XL relationship by the end of the story. But I do love Xiang Liu :-).
P.S. This response took a while to write because it took me a long time to figure out the reason for the "The Emperor Has No Clothes" feeling this novel left me with. Hopefully, the one about XY won't take much longer, although I'm way over the original "2 or so weeks" comment :-).
P.P.S. The above pertain to the novel. Despite its problems, the novel has certain merits and better characterisation. The drama is a poor adaptation, with a rather shallow interpretation of the characters, IMO.
these questions were discussed a long time back. It is unfortunate that it is extremely difficult to trace content in discussion section on MDL.
Moreover, many of people in this topic watched the drama back in 2023 and 2024, thus it is not easy to recall the exact event in each episode. I think you should watch the drama carefully to get your own interpretation. Quick reply for some of your question:
Jade:
Did Xiang Liu fell in love with Wen Xiaoliu at first sight? Why or why not?
No. Their first meeting was defined by suspicion and violence. Xiang Liu viewed Xiaoliu as a suspicious intruder and a potential spy. While he was intrigued by Xiaoliu’s high tolerance for poison and her lack of fear, this was curiosity, not love. The later comment by Fangfeng Bei about "falling in love at first sight" was merely a flirtatious line used by that specific persona; it doesn't reflect the cold, predatory reality of their actual first encounter.
Which episode did Xiang Liu start falling in love with Wen Xiaoliu? Why? How?
It was a gradual transformation from "useful tool" to "soulmate." A pivotal turning point was when he realized they were "the same kind of person"—both abandoned, lonely, and physically scarred by the past. The moment he allowed Xiaoliu to see his vulnerability while he was healing at her place was crucial. However, many fans point to the underwater kiss/breath-sharing as the moment his feelings became undeniable. He didn't just see a doctor; he saw the only person in the world who could truly understand his soul.
Did Xiang Liu treat Wen Xiaoliu as his servant or what is she to him? Why?
In these early episodes, the relationship is a unique mix of "debtor and collector" and "soulmate-level friends." While he technically used her talent for making poisons, he treated her with a level of familiarity he never showed his soldiers. Even though Xiang Liu is more powerful and dominant, their dynamic is surprisingly balanced; they drink together, tease each other, and talk about life as equals in loneliness.
Did Xiang Liu deliberately leave a hickey like kiss mark on Wen Xiaoliu’s neck every time he drank her blood? Why didn't Xiang Liu erase it? I’m very curious.
he bite marks were a natural consequence of him feeding on her blood to heal.
Why he didn't erase it: At this point, Xiaoliu was living as a man. In that setting, a mark on a man's neck wasn't a scandal—it might just look like a rough night out or a minor injury. Xiang Liu likely saw no reason to waste energy erasing it. It also served as a silent, physical reminder of the "contract" between them. Only someone like Ye Shiqi, who had deeper feelings, would look at those marks with pain or jealousy.
Jade:Was Xiang Liu jealous when he saw that Wen Xiaoliu was with Ye Shiqi in episodes 7-8? Did Xiang Liu dislike it? Why?
Don't remember what happened specifically but XL never consider YSQ/TSJ love rival with him
Agreed. And a truly great adaptation can even improve upon the source material.
YES! A great adaptation can separate the wheat from the chaff, smooth out the rough edges, or improve on the flow and structure of the source material while honouring its core themes and characterisation. A lot depends on the source material as well. Sometimes, strong source material can make adaptation easier, but it may not offer much room for interpretation. Whereas something more mediocre provides room for improvement?
Many Cdramas in the last 10 years are based on web novels. Not all of them are well written, and a 1-to-1 adaptation would have been quite horrible. Some have nuggets of good ideas, but simply terrible execution. Others contained elements that are no longer allowed and needed to be cut, which necessitated other changes to make sense. One of the worst things is when the drama cuts out certain plot points, but doesn't make allowances for them, so the affected elements don't make sense.
Although I'll be the first to admit that when I'm really attached to the source material I do tend to hate seeing things changed, even in the case of necessary / reasonable changes.
I'm guilty of the same thing. The more we love something, the more resistant we are to tampering with it. We get a bit fixated on how we imagine things while reading.
There have been instances where I loved the adaptation only to be hugely disappointed in the source material.
It kind of reminds me of Ella Enchanted. I remember being so excited when I heard it was going to be turned into a movie and so disappointed when I saw what kind of movie it was. And it's not a bad movie. The movie and the source material just have very different vibes.
The disappointment of a much-awaited adaptation of a favourite novel. I see your Ella and raised you Queen of the Damned. I was such a Vampire Chronicles fan way back when and was super excited for the movie. Unfortunately, it didn't even have the decency to be a not-bad movie; it was pure garbage. All these years later, and I'm still iffy about touching the new adaptations.
and that included some of the assassination attempts against XY but also things like XY's "wedding" to TSJ in absentia and the Queen Mother of Jade Mountain ceremony.
It would have served them better to retain the assassination attempts and cut back on the never-ending weeping and wedding scene. Given the way they utterly butchered Cang Xuan's arc, XY's hiding in Jade Mountain and becoming the Queen Mother was probably not necessary. They just handled Cang Xuan's arc and the rift between him and XY all wrong.
Did Xiang Liu treat Wen Xiaoliu as his servant or what is she to him? Why?
H19279:
In these early episodes, the relationship is a unique mix of "debtor and collector" and "soulmate-level friends." While he technically used her talent for making poisons, he treated her with a level of familiarity he never showed his soldiers. Even though Xiang Liu is more powerful and dominant, their dynamic is surprisingly balanced; they drink together, tease each other, and talk about life as equals in loneliness.
WXL was his man. That's what he insisted she agree to or be executed. In this era, I think it means more like one of soldiers or someone useful that is loyal to him. Sort of like the men and spies that CX had. So not a servant, who is just someone you pay to do a job. As time passed, and they got to know each other, their relationship changed, and eventually they fell in love, though I don't think either of them really understood that until the Love Bug.
Did Xiang Liu deliberately leave a hickey like kiss mark on Wen Xiaoliu’s neck every time he drank her blood? Why didn't Xiang Liu erase it? I’m very curious.
It also served as a silent, physical reminder of the "contract" between them. Only someone like Ye Shiqi, who had deeper feelings, would look at those marks with pain or jealousy.
I agree, it was something of a reminder of their 'contract,' but I also think he did to remind Jing that WXL was his man, as XL could see Jing wanted to / was trying to break the contract. Which is what I think annoyed XL, rather than being jealous, in those days.
Kokuto:
OMG. We finally got a comment history function! And other things too.
For anybody looking for it: Your avatar -> Profile -> More -> comments
I got excited, and then realised that it's only for the comments on the general boards. Pooh! Better than nothing.
Will they do something for the forum posts? All do we need to wait another 89 years???
OMG. We finally got a comment history function! And other things too.
For anybody looking for it: Your avatar -> Profile -> More -> comments
I got excited, and then realised that it's only for the comments on the general boards. Pooh! Better than nothing.
Will they do something for the forum posts? All do we need to wait another 89 years???
Wait, WUt??? Nooo!!! I thought they were all grouped together under comments. sigh. They even have Likes histories, but nothing for the forums?
I'm guilty of the same thing. The more we love something, the more resistant we are to tampering with it. We get a bit fixated on how we imagine things while reading.
Exactly!
OMG. We finally got a comment history function! And other things too.
For anybody looking for it: Your avatar -> Profile -> More -> comments
Oh this is awesome! And it covers a bunch of different types of comments. Comments in the main comment sections of dramas. Comments on titles you're watching. Comments on actor / actress pages. Comments on articles. Comments on user lists. Comments on posts in the feeds. Seems like every comment type that has limited functionality (i.e., not the expanded functionality that we have in the forums, like being able to embed pictures) is included, which makes sense to me. Those are the hardest ones to find. At least with google you can sometimes find old comments in the discussion forums.
So nice to be able to find old all those old comments (and likes!) so easily now - even comments from nine years ago!
So nice to be able to find old all those old comments (and likes!) so easily now - even comments from nine years ago!
Yes! I'm glad it is retroactive, and it does cover many different types of comments ... just not the forum ones.
I'm thinking it might be a good thing in some ways. Those other types of comments have the option to hide the whole comment under a spoiler cover, and then the corresponding comment shows up in the new comments page on user profiles with a "spoiler" tag. Discussion forum posts have a different way to cover specific text for spoilers that maybe they can't easily translate in the same way.
I'm guessing there are probably other practical issues, like not being able to support all the extra functionality that forum comments have (formatted text, quotes, embedded images, etc.).
Plus the way discussion forums tend to work on MDL, they're treated as a bit more private compared to other spaces (like the main comment section of a drama or the feeds), so it's more acceptable to "go off" and really say how you feel / vent without being as careful about your words for the sake of being a polite community member. Maybe users wouldn't make that distinction in the same way if all of a user's forum comments were archived and easy to access (practically put on display) through their profile?
OMG. We finally got a comment history function! And other things too.
For anybody looking for it: Your avatar -> Profile -> More -> comments
I got excited, and then realised that it's only for the comments on the general boards. Pooh! Better than nothing.
Will they do something for the forum posts? All do we need to wait another 89 years???
Wait, WUt??? Nooo!!! I thought they were all grouped together under comments. sigh. They even have Likes histories, but nothing for the forums?
Look at this fancy new quote presentation!
All comments, except for those in the forums.
Can I also request for reactions instead of "likes"? Some comments get a like purely for their entertainment level rather than because you agree with it. Too much to ask?
