Xiang Liu and Xiao Yao’s Story and Romance

I have a question for you about Xiang Liu and Wen Xiaoliu because I watched the Lost You Forever drama.

1. In episode 4, did Xiang Liu already know that Wen Xiaoliu was a girl when they met on the first day after he whipped her 40th times? How did he found out that she was a girl without her telling him?

2. Was Xiang Liu tortured and hurting Wen Xiaoliu while he knew she was a girl?

3. In season 1 so which episode when did Xiang Liu began fell in love with Wen Xiaoliu? Even she was still disguised as a boy?

 JadeParker:

1. In episode 4, did Xiang Liu already know that Wen Xiaoliu was a girl when they met on the first day after he whipped her 40th times? How did he found out that she was a girl without her telling him?

Yes, he knew the trespassing thief he captured, who attempted to kill his steed Furball and himself may have been physically a man, but originally was a woman, and probably a spy, given their disguise and their lies and their assassination attempt.  He knew because he heard the song WXL sang that lured out the Fei Fei -- which can only be lured out by a woman.

That's why we hear his voice over in episode 4, 'one is a woman and one is a god, and both are hiding.'

EDIT:  People forget / are confused about WXL's gender because Yang Zi played him.  WXL is a man physically.  He is NOT a woman, wearing a man's clothing, pretending to be a man.  He is literally a man, with a penis, or as XL says, 'his fake man parts.'  XL recognizes, however, that her original / true form is female, just as his original / true form is a 9 headed snake demon.

 JadeParker:

2. Was Xiang Liu tortured and hurting Wen Xiaoliu while he knew she was a girl?

Yes, when Xiang Liu ordered WXL punished, instead of executed, he knew WXL was physically a man, who originally was a woman.

 plor20:

3. In season 1 so which episode when did Xiang Liu began fell in love with Wen Xiaoliu? Even she was still disguised as a boy?

A matter of debate.  He clearly was intrigued and empathized with WXL from talking to them in the tent, or he'd have executed them outright.  I don't think it was love at first sight.  In fact, I've argued that XL had never experienced romantic love before, so didn't understand that feeling.

 Snowcup:

Is that the general consensus? I see it a bit differently. The Shaman King explained the PLB ties the emotions and lives of the lovers together and the danger from the heartbreak bugs. However, the situation with CX-XY’s bug connection made it ambiguous. Even though it was short-lived, CX and XY could still sense each other. TH seems to reinforce this in the drama when the Li Rong uncle tells XL in S1 (here) that the bugs are “mysteriously unpredictable” and “perhaps it’s possible” for them to work even if there’s no love between the couple (when XL asks about it). Li Rong does warn it could lead to “troubles,” but we also know XL has some level of control over the bugs as seen from S1 (here) and the novel.

What we know for sure is that the receiver (XL) must have love for the bug to transfer to him, and the raiser (XY) can’t control the bugs. The novel makes it clear that XL was “wholeheartedly” or “heart and soul” willing to accept the lovers bug, which is strong evidence of his love. But what about XY’s love? Neither the drama nor the novel spells it out that clearly. That said, I do think that XL and XY share romantic love that aligns with the lovers bug connection. I just don’t think the bugs alone are a definitive indicator of XY’s love.

Also, let’s not forget the “poisonous” part of the PLB. We often overlook the fact that these bugs are inherently dangerous and unpredictable — like temperamental lovers. The bug connection has the potential for both good and bad, which could lead to… uncertainty.

I meant to come back to this, but got distracted ...

The situation with CX / XY and the Lovers' Bug didn't make it ambiguous.  It's addressed twice specifically.  XY did not SUCCESSFULLY plant the Lovers's Bug in CX.  Yes, they did love each other, BUT the key seems to be 'willingly.'  When Donkey Meat Seller is explaining about the bug, and I think the Shaman, they both say, the bug is rare, because not many men are WILLING to accept the bug, knowing it can turn into the Heartbreak Bug and that it ties them together forever.  XL explains this also, to the comtose XY right before he kills the bug.

Yes, XL asks if it will work if there is no love between the couple, and is told NO, it won't.  But, as you said, it is mysterious, etc... but it would lead to trouble (turn into the Heartbreak Bug?).  But he is talking about a bug that is not successfully planted.

I think it is clear from the explanation that is mutual love.  The girl is planting it in her _lover_ to insure eternal love.  There has to be love between the _couple_.  XL repeats the marriage / lovers poetry when he removes it of Mandarin ducks and twining trees and the one eyed one winged birds.  And it is called the Lovers' (plural) Bug, not the Enslave Someone Who Loves Me Bug.

Yes, the bugs are poisionous, because love can also turn poisionous, and then it becomes the Heartbreak Bug.  And it is repeating Tong Hua's metaphor that love = poision.  That's why XY continues to send XL poision treats over the decades, and why she's the only one who can make him such treats, and he's the only one who can enjoy them.

The Lovers' Bug also reveals exactly who XY loves and their relationships.  CX gets the bug first, because CX was her first love.  However, he loves power more than he loves XY so he rejects the bug, and it is expelled.  XL, however, willingly loves her, even when circumstances change, so they share the bug until he dies.  Neither Jing or Feng Long are ever considered by XY for the Lovers' Bug, which says everything.

 Kokuto:

The situation with CX / XY and the Lovers' Bug didn't make it ambiguous.  It's addressed twice specifically.  XY did not SUCCESSFULLY plant the Lovers's Bug in CX.  Yes, they did love each other, BUT the key seems to be 'willingly.'  When Donkey Meat Seller is explaining about the bug, and I think the Shaman, they both say, the bug is rare, because not many men are WILLING to accept the bug, knowing it can turn into the Heartbreak Bug and that it ties them together forever.  XL explains this also, to the comtose XY right before he kills the bug.

Yes, XL asks if it will work if there is no love between the couple, and is told NO, it won't.  But, as you said, it is mysterious, etc... but it would lead to trouble (turn into the Heartbreak Bug?).  But he is talking about a bug that is not successfully planted.

I think it is clear from the explanation that is mutual love.  The girl is planting it in her _lover_ to insure eternal love.  There has to be love between the _couple_.  XL repeats the marriage / lovers poetry when he removes it of Mandarin ducks and twining trees and the one eyed one winged birds.  And it is called the Lovers' (plural) Bug, not the Enslave Someone Who Loves Me Bug.

 blabla100:

"And it is called the Lovers' (plural) Bug, not the Enslave Someone Who is Loves Me Bug."

LOL, my thoughts exactly!

Ah, back to the lovers bugs – I knew I couldn’t escape them so easily. I try not to overthink the lovers bugs. But I’m no Gu guru, and I’m wholeheartedly willing to accept … or to be convinced, especially since I do think XY and XL share mutual romantic love that aligns with the bug connection.  

Before diving into the details, let’s take a step back for a moment. In a story full of ambiguity, double talk, misdirections, and hidden lines – all designed to conceal their love – would there really be a single plot device that would decisively prove that same love? I’m doubtful. (One of the bugs just bit me.)

I’ve always acknowledged the bugs as strong evidence of XL’s love. My hesitation lies in treating them as definitive proof of XY’s love – mainly because of how XL might perceive her feelings during the story. You’re right about willingness being crucial – XL’s wholehearted acceptance was key for the bond. But I interpret Li Rong’s caveat slightly differently. When XL asks if the bond works without love, Li Rong first says, “No,” then adds, “Perhaps, it’s possible.” I think that was intentional. I looked at this more closely last year, but the drama does seem to distinguish between the emotional requirements of the planter and the receiver:

Li Rong: The planting of the bug relies on 情意, and so does the removal. If it hasn’t been planted for long and it’s not yet stable, it could possibly be transferred to another person. But this person must have 有情 in his heart.

Li Rong explains the planting (which suggests the planter) requires 情意 (qíng yì) – a broad term including care, feelings, and affection, not necessarily romantic love. However, the receiver must have 有情 (yǒu qíng) in his heart – a phrase suggesting active, romantic love – very specific. (有情人, after all, means lover.) XL fulfills this requirement.

This distinction matters because it suggests the bond relies on XL’s unambiguous romantic love, not necessarily mutual love in equal measure. XY’s willingness is clear, but the emotional requirement on her side isn’t as clearly defined. Could this be intentional? Maybe.

As for CX and XY’s case, the ambiguity here isn’t whether the planting succeeded – but why it seemed to work. No ill effects appeared. We don’t know if it failed due to CX’s unwillingness (as XL suggested) or if it simply needed more time. The drama reinforces that the mechanics aren’t rigidly set (mysterious/unpredictable). Either way, I don’t think this example has any bearing on XY’s feelings in her bond with XL.

 Kokuto:

I think it is clear from the explanation that is mutual love.  The girl is planting it in her _lover_ to insure eternal love.  There has to be love between the _couple_.  XL repeats the marriage / lovers poetry when he removes it of Mandarin ducks and twining trees and the one eyed one winged birds.  And it is called the Lovers' (plural) Bug, not the Enslave Someone Who Loves Me Bug.

Lol. These are all supportive of love – suggestive, full of implications – but not definitive proof. That's a higher bar. The line: “Mostly, women raise them for their lovers, hoping for eternal and loyal love.” That “mostly” matters. It means typical cases, not all cases. And let’s not forget – XY seemingly didn’t know they were lovers bugs when she planted them.

 Kokuto:

Yes, the bugs are poisionous, because love can also turn poisionous, and then it becomes the Heartbreak Bug.  And it is repeating Tong Hua's metaphor that love = poision.  That's why XY continues to send XL poision treats over the decades, and why she's the only one who can make him such treats, and he's the only one who can enjoy them

That’s an interesting correlation. The “poisonous” nature of the bugs is tied to their temperamental and hard-to-control magic. The Shaman King’s warning, “the greater the benefit, the greater the harm,” frames them as double-edged and emphasizes their dual nature.

 Kokuto:

The Lovers' Bug also reveals exactly who XY loves and their relationships.  CX gets the bug first, because CX was her first love.  However, he loves power more than he loves XY so he rejects the bug, and it is expelled.  XL, however, willingly loves her, even when circumstances change, so they share the bug until he dies.  Neither Jing or Feng Long are ever considered by XY for the Lovers' Bug, which says everything.

I'm not sure that would have been possible. Li Rong said a transfer could only work if the bugs haven’t been planted long and not yet stable.

 blabla100:

I don't believe that neither the drama or the novel stated point blank that the one who raises the bug also requires eternal, loyal love, altough IMO nothing has been said to prove otherwise either.

I think the name of the bug and the explanation of how it becomes the heartbreak bug pretty much states this, but CX's partial infection, as well as XY carrying on with Jing, confuse things for some.  And in the book, it does clearly state, it is mutual love.  

Vol 3 Ch 4   (Chapter 37 )

The shaman king coughed and solemnly said, "The lover's bug, as the name suggests, has a pair of male and female bugs. The man and woman who has planted the bug will have their lives and hearts intertwined. If one is hurt, the other will also feel the pain. If one is injured, the other will also be injured.“

”It enables two lovers to be connected in their hearts and lives. However, the lover's bug is also like a lover in love with each other. It is temperamental and difficult to control, will easily retaliate. Once that happens, both of them will die. That is why the lover's bug has another name, called the heartbreak bug."

The shaman king's face paled in horror. "Did you not plant the bug in this young master?"

"No."

He frowned and murmured, "It is indeed the lover's bug! But how is it possible? 'Lovers raise the lover's bug. Broken-hearted people produce the heartbreak bug.' Lover's bug differs from other bugs. It requires the couple to be willing in order to successfully plant it. If he is not your lover, how did you manage to plant the lover's bug in him?"

 blabla100:

"Li Rong said a transfer could only work if the bugs haven’t been planted long and not yet stable."

I don't get this. Did he mean that the bugs could have been transfered regardless of them being properly planted?

I don't think so.  I think by stable, he means successfully planted.  I think he may be saying that there was a chance that CX could have willingly accepted the Lovers Bug, given some time.  And then the bug would have been successfully planted and could not be removed.

 Kokuto:

In the novel, neither XY or the audience know that the Lovers Bugs ARE Lovers Bugs until half way through the book.  And they don't know how they work or the details, until the last fifth of the book, after XY and Jing are reconciled and go visit the shaman.  So, for most of the book, YaoLiu is not revealed openly.  And even in that scene, you have the shaman saving XY some face by saying that her bug must be 'different' since Jing is standing right there. ;p

And it isn't until nearly the end, in Chapter 48, that XL reveals the full connection and details of the Lovers Bug to the audience, when he kills it.  So, the bug actually fits very well with Tong Hua's style, where in the beginning, its meaning is hidden; and then as the layers peel away one by one, we see the shadows of it, the implications of it; and then the effects, while not understanding the cause.  And then finally it is revealed openly by the shaman, and yet even then, it is given a fig leaf to cover it's true meaning, until XL spells it out -- right before he kills it.  sniff sniff

Great points about the timing of the lovers bug details in the novel. The effects definitely seemed subtle and gradual – XY learned the bugs’ name from the Bai Li healer in Ch. 26, which prompted her exchange with XL (likely testing his reaction to both the lovers bugs and her engagement to Feng Long). XL’s calm controlled reaction failed to give her the reassurance she needed.

The Shaman King’s explanation in Ch. 37 – delivered with dramatic flair – feels somewhat counterintuitive. If his account were completely definitive proof, the story’s continued reliance on concealment would still lose its purpose though. I think XL’s scene works because it maintains some lingering ambiguity, even as it reveals his wholehearted acceptance of the bugs, a pivotal insight into his character after so much deliberate obscurity.

But the drama took a different approach. How does that fit? Li Rong explained the lovers bugs to XL (and viewers) as early as S1Ep.12, with the physical reality of the connection shared later in S2Ep.16.

 Kokuto:

Whereas, I think it supports my contention that XL KNOWS how XY feels.  The second season implies that he doesn't, with his questions, but as I said before, I feel he's trying to get her to acknowledge what she feels.

Actually, the questions started with FFB in S1, after the lovers bugs were planted. That’s up to your interpretation – but if it helps, I don’t think XL’s perception of XY’s feelings stays stagnant throughout the story. While I suspect the bugs alone wouldn’t give him certainty about her feelings, his understanding evolves. Chapter by chapter (episode by episode), it’s only natural for his perceptions to shift to some extent.

 Kokuto:

We did have a discussion about this term 情意, as I think one platform translated it for the subtitles as 'affection.'   liddi translated it as more likely romantic love, however, which is supported by the shaman scene in the novel.

Thanks for linking the posts. Very interesting. Actually, 情意 (qíng yì) doesn’t seem to be supported in the Shaman King meeting. The term there is XL’s requirement, 有情 (yǒu qíng), along with 有情人, which appears a few times. If no distinction was intended, I don’t quite see why the dialogue would use two different descriptors. 

Much of Li Rong’s explanation to XL seems to directly qualify the Shaman King’s remarks in the novel. This phrasing – “Perhaps, it’s possible,” “Mostly,” “mysterious,” “unpredictable” – along with XL’s own question, allows room for interpretation. That all seems deliberate. The Shaman King seems to describe the aspirational cases, while Li Rong adds the broader possibilities. Given that, I may have to stick with my original assessment.

 Kokuto:

Hmmm.  Does it say Mostly, women or does it say Mostly women?  Because the coma makes a difference. The first could be interpreted as you pointed out.  But without a coma it means mostly women, but in some cases men.

Lol, the comma is king here. Mostly = In most cases, according to the translation meaning.

 Kokuto:

Did it work exactly?  It didn't work like it worked with XL.  XY and CX's didn't share a heart beat, like XY and XL.  XY points out the bugs transfered almost immediately to XL, whereas it had to spend time travelling the building looking for CX.  Neither XY or CX could use the connection to help the other physically when fatally injured, like XL did for XY after her assassination.  The magic walnut disappeared with XL, but it did not with CX.  The bugs seemed to transmit XY's feelings to XL immediately during their underwater trip, but it took days for CX to feel XY's physical pain, and he didn't seem to feel her emotions at all, until XL drank her blood in the Hot Tub of Sexual Healing.

There’s a lot happening here. ^^ I recall things a bit differently, though it’s been a while. WXL could sense CX’s excitable emotions before the battle with XL. Their connection lasted a few weeks – probably not enough time for more than that. Plus, CX didn’t know about the bugs like XL did. CX could fee all of XY’s injuries, though. Maybe the walnut could’ve disappeared if CX had learned XY’s identity and became willing.

Did the bugs transmit XY’s feelings to XL during the sea trip? I really don’t remember XL ever making a reference to WXL’s “fake man parts” in the Marvin Gaye-inspired pool. Lol. Might be time to revisit Qingshui Town soon.

I believe the book talks more about the bug in connection to both of them and not just regarding the receiver, but I personally can see Snowcup's pov too. I agree though, when XY told Jing that she didn't know how the bug is called and that it's just a name, voodoo King didn't agree with it being just a name, which is telling not only because he basically tell us that the name accurately fits the bill, but also considering how at that point în time he made the assumption that Jing has the bug because he îs XY's lover. The focus went to the receiver only because the voodoo king found out that Jing is not the one whom she shares the bug with, hence there were more things he wanted to say, but couldn't anymore. If the bug didn't act as a two way street, why would he restrain himself for saying more? Also worth mentioning is how voodoo king phrased his next question, he didn't ask XY "if you are not his lover, why did you plant the bug in him?",  but "if he is not your lover, how did you manage to plant lover's GU on him?", which IMO it's quite a difference. Of course, I don't know how does it sound in chinese, since I can only judge the english use of words.

"I think he may be saying that there was a chance that CX could have willingly accepted the Lovers Bug, given some time."

Hmm, I am not sure how to interpret a lot of things from the drama, that's why my pov is mostly based on the novel. În the novel, shemeier said that if a woman raises the gu, she must find a man willing to grow it. XL said that back then it was different because what was once a baby tiger over time grew to a dragon, so maybe it would have been possible to have it transferred în the beginning, regardless of the bug being properly planted or not. Or maybe what he said was în regards to CX, CX wasn't willing to grow the bug, therefore the transfer was possible as opposite to a retaliation, because regardless of his unwilligness due to not knowing XY's real identity, the feelings were present, so CX's bug was kept at the size of a baby tiger, which made a transfer possible. That could explain why the emotional connection was established, but not the life and death one. 

"Li Rong explains the planting (which suggests the planter) requires 情意 (qíng yì) – a broad term including care, feelings, and affection, not necessarily romantic love."

He doesn't actually say the planter, but the planting, as in the action of planting, which might give us a reason of why CX's bug wasn't properly planted, yet it didn't bite back. He actually says that both the planting and the removal relies on  情意,  so I can interpret that as the bug not being properly stabilized in CX yet because his feelings at that point în time were just that, 情意 (baby tiger), enough not to retailate, wheres XL's feelings  were stronger than that, as you mentioned 有情, therefore the bug went to the stronger. But again, that could also be because of XY, since the removal relies on 情意 too, maybe her feelings for XL were 有情, while for CX 情意.  

I have checked the novel and chapter 26 says that

" Shemeier also sighed, "Women are most afraid of giving their hearts to the wrong person!"
    Xiaoyao stared at the tea bowl in her hand, silent.
    She Mei'er looked around and saw that there was no one around. She said, "Wang Ji mentioned the Gu in her body before. I still haven't figured out what it is, but I remembered a Gu in the Jiuli legend."
Xiao Yao perked up and listened carefully: "What Gu?"

Shemeier was talking about Hu's wife in this fragment, but hard not to notice how the focus went to the Lovers gu right after her statement about women giving their hearts away. Was it on purpose to confuse even more the readers or can it be interpreted as a hint that Lovers gu means exactly that?  To me this statement means a lot more than affection, to give your heart away means to fully and wholeheartedly love someone, but again, should we focus on the first part of the discussion, the one involving jing and hu, or the last part of it, the part involving Lovers gu?

    She Mei'er said, "Generally, Gu is mother-child Gu. The mother Gu can control the child Gu.

By controling the Gu my guess is that the mother could also have the GU removed, a thing that didn't apply to lover's gu. Neither XL or XY could have removed the bug because they had no control over it, so I personally don't believe XL had more power over it than XY. He probably had more power over himself, as to not let XY feel him most of the times, but I don't believe he had the power to stop the bugs from biting if a retaliation would have taken place. To my understanding, the retaliation could have happened on behalf of both of them, not only on behalf of the receiver, the one who planted the bug could also suffer a change of heart ("either you live with one heart or die apart) , but that didn't happen, therefore IMO what has been said about the receiver fully applies to the planter too. Following this idea, why would a retaliation take part on behalf of the planter too, if the planter doesn't require full commitment too? Again, IMO the focus went to the receiver only because voodoo King found out that Jing îs not the one who has the bug, so instead of speaking about both of them as a whole, he put the focus on the receiver. 

"Does it say Mostly, women or does it say Mostly women?  Because the coma makes a difference."

I agree, the coma makes a difference. Not sure how it was used în the drama, but the novel says that "Only some stubborn women will raise this poison",  as to point that mostly the women are inclined of wanting to raise a Lovers gu for their lovers and not so much the other way around.