I would disagree that we only see XY's POV, and never see XL's POV, until XL's epilogue in the novel.AH :
There are several little moments, scenes, and even large sections of chapters throughout the novel before the epilogue where the reader sees XL in moments where XY is not present or XY is fully unconscious and not aware of what is happening. We also see things that XY is made to forget and sometimes get insights into XL's thoughts and feelings that XY is not privy to, and we are made aware of actions that XL takes (e.g., intentionally letting TSJ eavesdrop) without XY knowing.
Your comment got me thinking about it and I went back to collect some of these scenes so I could re-read them and have them in one place for future reference.
Well, this will certainly teach me to avoid absolute declarations. lol But thank you for providing the re-read. :)
Will address the examples, but while everything isn't from XY's pov, we still rarely get anything from XL's. His characterization is mostly hidden or thru other's eyes.
Well, this will certainly teach me to avoid absolute declarations. lol But thank you for providing the re-read. :)Kokuto:
You're welcome! Thanks for your comment. I enjoyed thinking about it and re-reading these scenes. ^^
Will address the examples, but while everything isn't from XY's pov, we still rarely get anything from XL's. His characterization is mostly hidden or thru other's eyes.
Yes, we rarely get XL's direct POV. Most of the story in the novel is not told from the direct POV of any particular character, not even XY. The narration is mostly from a third-person narrator, and that narrator mainly shows events that XY is aware of. When we are given direct insight into a character's thoughts or feelings (XY's more often than anyone else's), more often than not it's just a brief window rather than a whole chapter or scene's worth of thoughts and feelings. Like in XL's epilogue where we mostly see XL from the outside through the eyes of the third-person narrator except for the last few lines, when we are finally given direct insight into XL's actual thoughts. And of course there was a lot that could be gleaned from XL's actions in the epilogue (keeping and updating the ice crystal ball, carving the big-bellied laughing doll, hiding the ice crystal ball inside the big-bellied laughing doll, giving the doll secretly to XY as a wedding gift, etc.) even without the direct insight into his thoughts at the end.
But now you've really got me thinking... is the reader given way less direct insight into XL's thoughts, feelings and intentions compared to how much direct insight the reader is given to CX and TSJ's thoughts, feelings and intentions? When I first thought about it, my instinct was to say no, but perhaps that's a reflection of my bias and paying more attention to XL's parts of the story and also the fact that XL's insights feel more interesting and are concentrated more heavily towards the end of the novel (e.g., in chapters 43, 46, and 48), making them easier to remember.
I bet someone, somewhere has already done a comparative analysis on this. ^^
Most of the story in the novel is not told from the direct POV of any particular character, not even XY. The narration is mostly from a third-person narrator, and that narrator mainly shows events that XY is aware of. When we are given direct insight into a character's thoughts or feelings (XY's more often than anyone else's), more often than not it's just a brief window rather than a whole chapter or scene's worth of thoughts and feelings.
Agree. We never get the complete picture of everyone's thoughts and feelings, even XY. I also get the feeling that the brief window into XY's thoughts that the audience gets access to may be misleading and leave a very different impression on the audience than they would get with access to her complete thoughts.
Like in XL's epilogue where we mostly see XL from the outside through the eyes of the third-person narrator except for the last few lines, when we are finally given direct insight into XL's actual thoughts. And of course there was a lot that could be gleaned from XL's actions in the epilogue (keeping and updating the ice crystal ball, carving the big-bellied laughing doll, hiding the ice crystal ball inside the big-bellied laughing doll, giving the doll secretly to XY as a wedding gift, etc.) even without the direct insight into his thoughts at the end.
Agree that a lot can be gleaned by XL's actions, even without access to his thoughts. There is no other reasonable way for the audience to interpret the fact that he gave her the archery lessons, gifted her the bow and arrows, gifted her the sea map, or saved her again and again when she is in danger. It is easy for the audience to assume positive intent with XL.
In contrast, many of XY's actions appear passive or morally ambiguous, leaving us to doubt her intentions. If we were given more insight into her intentions, I believe we might view her in a more positive light. One example of where we were given access to her inner thoughts that softened the interpretation of her actions was when she refused to go with XL when he told her, "Beneath your feet is the sea." Concern for his safety was a large part of the reason she refused to go with him. If we weren't given insight into this reason, I would have assumed she didn't want to go with XL because she was choosing TSJ over him, making me view her in a more negative light.
But now you've really got me thinking... is the reader given way less direct insight into XL's thoughts, feelings and intentions compared to how much direct insight the reader is given to CX and TSJ's thoughts, feelings and intentions?
TH uses the same ambiguous style of writing throughout the whole novel. Even when she is writing about CX or TSJ, we rarely know what either of them are thinking and have to rely on interpreting their words and actions, in addition to following the hidden lines in the story, to try to understand their feelings and intentions.
The LYF novel is a love story written like a mystery / investigative detective story.Snowcup:
I've treated the novel as a mystery / investigative detective story for a while now. I certainly don't treat the novel as a self-help book for how to improve my interpersonal relationships :)
Agree. We never get the complete picture of everyone's thoughts and feelings, even XY. I also get the feeling that the brief window into XY's thoughts that the audience gets access to may be misleading and leave a very different impression on the audience than they would get with access to her complete thoughts.solarlunareclipse:
Agreed!
Although there were so many circumstances where XY lied to herself, refused to think about certain things, or didn't understand why she was acting a certain way... maybe even if the readers were given direct access to all of XY's thoughts, it still wouldn't provide a full, definitive picture?
Like in chapter 16 when XY accepted FFB's offer to teach her archery in exchange for her spending time with him. Based on the third person narrator's comments, it seemed like one of the initial reasons she did so was because she wanted to make TSJ jealous (and maybe even wanted to give him a taste of his own medicine), but XY herself didn't understand her own motives and avoided thinking about it.
| Kanunu8 | Chat GPT | Koala |
| 小夭不知道该是什么心情，她跟防风邶学习箭术已经有十六个月，以涂山氏的力量，以她和防风邶的身份，璟早就应该听闻了她和防风邶的事。或者说，在刚开始，当她还没了解防风邶的随性浪荡时，她不相信防风邶会真正传授她箭术，她也没打算真跟他学，小夭没有抗拒防风邶的接近，只是因为她清楚地知道她和防风邶走到一起的消息会飞进每个世家大族的深宅大院内。璟当然也会听到，而小夭就是想让他听到。小夭不明白自己为什么想这么做，她也懒得去想，反正这么做她觉得高兴，她就这么做了。 后来，小夭发现她误会了防风邶，防风邶真的在教授她箭术，她也开始认真学习。渐渐地，最初的那个目的已不重要。可小夭仍旧在若有若无间等待璟的反应，但十六个月，她真的已经放弃了等待，她只是觉得自己有点可笑。幸亏、幸亏，防风邶让她出乎意料，否则可就不仅仅是可笑，而是可悲了。 但是，就在她已经忘记时，他又突然出现了，并且带着他的未婚妻！ | Xiao Yao wasn’t sure how to feel. She had been learning archery from Fang Feng Bei for sixteen months now. Given the power of the Tu Shan clan, and the status she and Fang Feng Bei held, Jing should have long heard about her time spent with Fang Feng Bei. Or rather, at the beginning, when she hadn’t yet understood Fang Feng Bei’s carefree and roguish nature, she didn’t believe he would genuinely teach her archery. Nor did she plan on truly learning from him. Xiao Yao hadn’t resisted Fang Feng Bei's approach because she knew that the news of them being together would spread through the grand halls of every noble family. Jing would undoubtedly hear about it, and that was exactly what Xiao Yao wanted—to let him hear. Xiao Yao didn’t understand why she wanted to do this, nor did she care to think about it. All she knew was that it made her feel happy, so she did it. Later, Xiao Yao realized she had misunderstood Lord Feng Bei—he was truly teaching her archery, and she began to take her training seriously. Gradually, her original intent became less important. Yet, Xiao Yao still subtly waited for some kind of response from Jing. Sixteen months passed, and she had truly given up on waiting, feeling only that she had been somewhat foolish. Thankfully, Fang Feng Bei had been unexpectedly genuine. Otherwise, it wouldn’t have just been foolish—it would have been pitiful. But just when she had finally forgotten about it, he suddenly reappeared—this time, with his fiancée! | Xiao Yao didn’t know what to feel. She had been learning archery from Fang Feng Bei for 16 months and with the Tu Shan clan’s information network and her and Fang Feng Bei’s identities, Jing must have heard about it a long time ago. Or perhaps in the beginning before she really understood Fang Feng Bei’s devil may care attitude, she never believed he would really teach her archery so she wasn’t even learning in earnest. She didn’t reject Fang Feng Bei getting close because she wanted the news that she was hanging out with him to spread across all the powerful families and reach Jing. Xiao Yao wanted Jing to know but she didn’t know why she did that. She just wanted to do it so she did it. Later Xiao Yao realized she was mistaken about Fang Feng Bei and he really was teaching her archery. She began to learn in earnest and gradually she felt her initial purpose wasn’t important, but she still waited for how Jing would respond. But after 16 months she had totally given up waiting and felt she was so lame. Thank goodness Fang Feng Bei turned out to exceed her initial expectations otherwise it wouldn’t just be lame, it would have been pathetic. But just as she had forgotten, he suddenly appeared and even brought along his fiancee! |
Agree that a lot can be gleaned by XL's actions, even without access to his thoughts. There is no other reasonable way for the audience to interpret the fact that he gave her the archery lessons, gifted her the bow and arrows, gifted her the sea map, or saved her again and again when she is in danger. It is easy for the audience to assume positive intent with XL.
In contrast, many of XY's actions appear passive or morally ambiguous, leaving us to doubt her intentions. If we were given more insight into her intentions, I believe we might view her in a more positive light. One example of where we were given access to her inner thoughts that softened the interpretation of her actions was when she refused to go with XL when he told her, "Beneath your feet is the sea." Concern for his safety was a large part of the reason she refused to go with him. If we weren't given insight into this reason, I would have assumed she didn't want to go with XL because she was choosing TSJ over him, making me view her in a more negative light.
That's an interesting observation. I agree that Tong Hua giving the readers some insight into WXL's thoughts in that scene in chapter 8 helped us understand WXL better / helped us see WXL in a better light than if we weren't given that insight.
It would be super interesting to get insight into the thoughts that XY had when she first created the ice crystal ball scene and also the thoughts that she had four years later when she finalized it and sent it off to XL. I wonder if she actually did have a really clear thought process, or if it was more like the situation in chapter 16 where she didn't fully understand the motives behind her own actions and avoided thinking about it? If she did have a clear thought process, I wonder if getting to see it would make me think better of XY or worse of her?
Yes, we rarely get XL's direct POV. Most of the story in the novel is not told from the direct POV of any particular character, not even XY. The narration is mostly from a third-person narrator, and that narrator mainly shows events that XY is aware of. When we are given direct insight into a character's thoughts or feelings (XY's more often than anyone else's), more often than not it's just a brief window rather than a whole chapter or scene's worth of thoughts and feelings.
AH :
But now you've really got me thinking... is the reader given way less direct insight into XL's thoughts, feelings and intentions compared to how much direct insight the reader is given to CX and TSJ's thoughts, feelings and intentions?
TH uses the same ambiguous style of writing throughout the whole novel. Even when she is writing about CX or TSJ, we rarely know what either of them are thinking and have to rely on interpreting their words and actions, in addition to following the hidden lines in the story, to try to understand their feelings and intentions.
Agreed. Tong Hua's style is consistent and most of the time she doesn't provide direct insight into the characters' thoughts and feelings, so, without going back and actually trying to quantify it, I think we can still safely say that the differences in terms of how much insight we are given into XL's thoughts and feelings vs how much insight we are given into CX and TSJ's thoughts and feelings wouldn't be extreme.
But I'm still a little curious about the actual distribution and how it would compare to my biased memory / impressions. ^^
Although there were so many circumstances where XY lied to herself, refused to think about certain things, or didn't understand why she was acting a certain way... maybe even if the readers were given direct access to all of XY's thoughts, it still wouldn't provide a full, definitive picture?
Like in chapter 16 when XY accepted FFB's offer to teach her archery in exchange for her spending time with him. Based on the third person narrator's comments, it seemed like one of the initial reasons she did so was because she wanted to make TSJ jealous (and maybe even wanted to give him a taste of his own medicine), but XY herself didn't understand her own motives and avoided thinking about it.
Ah yes, the self-delusional and avoidant aspects of XY's personality does throw another wrench into analyzing her as a character.
Regarding XY's motivations for learning archery, when FFB first approached her after she went to ship poison to XL, XY continued to be suspicious that FFB was XL.
Xiao Yao walked out of the carriage and horse shop and saw Fang Fengbei again. She couldn't help but try to sense it with the gu again, but there was still no response.
-- Chapter 16
After FFB showed her how to shoot a bow and arrow, the text mentioned:
Fangfeng Bei stood behind Xiaoyao, holding Xiaoyao's hand, guiding Xiaoyao's hand, and guiding Xiaoyao to follow his movements, "Keep your body straight, use force gently, hold the bow properly, hold the arrow calmly, push forward and move back, the bow is fully trained!" With the word "trained", the arrow flew out and firmly nailed into the tree trunk.
"What does it feel like?"
"I didn't think about anything in my mind, my eyes were not fixed on the target, I was only focused on the action of drawing the bow and shooting the arrow."
"Good understanding."
Xiaoyao smiled bitterly. It was not that she wanted to understand, but at that moment, her body's reaction was just like when Xiangliu approached her. She felt that he would bite her neck, and her mind went blank. But if it was really Xiangliu, even if he had a cooperation agreement with the Fangfeng family, the Fangfeng family would never teach the family archery to a nine-headed monster.
-- Chapter 16
From this description, I would infer that XY felt some sort of sexual tension with FFB, similar to what she felt with XL since we know how she reacted to the neck biting in the medicine pool.
Later, it mentions:
Xiao Yao stared at Fang Fengbei, her heart was in turmoil. Her spiritual power was low, so she only wanted to protect herself and had long given up the idea of taking the initiative to attack. But if what Fang Fengbei said was true, then within a certain distance, she could also take the initiative to attack. If she encountered something like the last time when Yujiang assassinated Zhuanxu, she would not be able to do anything but use her body to block it.
-- Chapter 16
This seems to indicate that XY wanted to learn archery to protect herself and the people important to her.
I'm not sure how much I buy that XY's only motivation, or even main motivation for learning archery was to make Jing jealous, which is what the text you quoted makes it sound like. It seems like her suspicion/curiosity about FFB being XL, her attraction to FFB/XL, and her desire to have a means to protect herself and CX were also motivating factors for her accepting the archery lessons.
It's difficult to know for certain which parts of the text reveals more of the truth and carries more weight. When in doubt, my default is to give more weight to the dark lines--or not so obvious conclusions (XY is attracted to XL/FFB) rather than the explicit ones (XY wanted to make Jing jealous), which I always suspect TH of throwing in with the objective of misleading us.
This example reminds me of another example where XY refused to kiss XL for air. I previously did an analysis of the multifaceted reasons for her refusal, however, when she was put in a similar situation years later during the ocean excursion with XL, she mentioned that she didn't kiss XL back then because of her promise to Jing. Again, I'm skeptical that Jing was her only or even primary reason for refusing to kiss XL the first time. It seems more like denial/revisionist history.
Anyway, I agree that XY is a very difficult character to interpret.
It would be super interesting to get insight into the thoughts that XY had when she first created the ice crystal ball scene and also the thoughts that she had four years later when she finalized it and sent it off to XL. I wonder if she actually did have a really clear thought process, or if it was more like the situation in chapter 16 where she didn't fully understand the motives behind her own actions and avoided thinking about it? If she did have a clear thought process, I wonder if getting to see it would make me think better of XY or worse of her?
Agree, I would love to definitely know her motivations behind creating the crystal ball. My interpretation is that XY wanted to at least try to give their relationship a chance by confessing her feelings to XL and issuing him an ultimatum, even though she was not optimistic about him responding to her confession and didn't get her hopes up. I think the fact that it took her years to prepare the crystal ball can be seen as sign that she understood her motivations and carefully thought over her confession. I view the fact that they changed drama to make it seem like the crystal ball was a last minute idea from Miao Pu to support this interpretation. The change in the drama is a sign to me that having XY take years to carefully craft the crystal ball would have been too big of a clue that she loved XL, so they needed to change this detail to comply with censorship and make it less obvious that she had feelings for XL.
Personally, I like characters motivated by a clear thought process rather than ones who just stumble through life and do things for reasons they are uncertain of, so I would have a better impression of XY if her intent in making the crystal ball was to listen to her heart and take a chance on having a relationship with XL.
HeadInTheClouds:
Have your Mao Qiu arrived liddi? I want to buy one but it's so expensive I need a review before plunking down the cash.
Mao Qiu and his master are reunited at last! It finally arrived, and is absolutely adorable, soft, so huggable. Needless to say, my girl loves him. I'm sure his master is very pleased too that he is here, though he masks it behind that inscrutable, grumpy face of his as always.
Here's a gauge of his size with Xiang Liu for comparison, at 18cm tall.
You mentioned it's expensive. Where do you see it sold?
I got ours from Taobao, via Tencent's official website at less than USD20 including air shipment. I did see one on eBay for over USD50 but that one is much bigger (30cm) and doesn't appear to be the official merchandise. I can't find any Mao Qiu plush on AliExpress though. Have you seen any?
Anyway, please share photos if you do decide to get it!
liddi:
Mao Qiu and his master are reunited at last! It finally arrived, and is absolutely adorable, soft, so huggable. Needless to say, my girl loves him. I'm sure his master is very pleased too that he is here, though he masks it behind that inscrutable, grumpy face of his as always.
Here's a gauge of his size with Xiang Liu for comparison, at 18cm tall.
You mentioned it's expensive. Where do you see it sold?
I got ours from Taobao, via Tencent's official website at less than USD20 including air shipment. I did see one on eBay for over USD50 but that one is much bigger (30cm) and doesn't appear to be the official merchandise. I can't find any Mao Qiu plush on AliExpress though. Have you seen any?
Anyway, please share photos if you do decide to get it!
OMG! He's adorable!!!! His master is being a grumpy hard-arse, he's probably jumping for joy underneath that cool exterior :-).
I saw him on eBay. I'm pretty sure it's the same version as yours except the price is not so friendly:-(. Could you share the Tao Bao link where you got him from? I only found a MaoQiu backpack on AliExpress, but no soft toy.
I did see an official mini MaoQiu on eBay.
blabla100:
"In the novel, when CX reminds Xiao Liu to restrain his urges, Xiao Liu is seemingly confused but later “smiled quietly” or in Koala’s version, “started to smile.” This implies she does know what CX means."
I agree. She was aware of what it means, that's reinforced by the fact that later on she refused to let him drink blood from her neck. Same goes for their kisses underwater. On the other hand, TH's descriptions of her kisses with jing never screamed sexual desire / sexual urge to me. Sweetness yes, but nothing that one can lose control over it or couldn't stop from going forward.
(ಥ﹏ಥ) I might go back reread for the fourth time. Just to imagine Xiang Liu. (ㆁωㆁ*)
Mao Qiu and his master are reunited at last! It finally arrived, and is absolutely adorable, soft, so huggable. Needless to say, my girl loves him. I'm sure his master is very pleased too that he is here, though he masks it behind that inscrutable, grumpy face of his as always.
Here's a gauge of his size with Xiang Liu for comparison, at 18cm tall.
You mentioned it's expensive. Where do you see it sold?
I got ours from Taobao, via Tencent's official website at less than USD20 including air shipment. I did see one on eBay for over USD50 but that one is much bigger (30cm) and doesn't appear to be the official merchandise. I can't find any Mao Qiu plush on AliExpress though. Have you seen any?
Anyway, please share photos if you do decide to get it!
omgy this maoqui is adorable! (ಥ﹏ಥ)
OMG! He's adorable!!!! His master is being a grumpy hard-arse, he's probably jumping for joy underneath that cool exterior :-).
plor20:
omgy this maoqui is adorable! (ಥ﹏ಥ)
He is, isn't he? Certainly a sight for sore eyes! My daughter has since pointed out that all that's left is a wine bowl big enough to fit him in LOL. And yes, I agree about his master too. He really needs to sign up for the communications course pronto!
I saw him on eBay. I'm pretty sure it's the same version as yours except the price is not so friendly:-(. Could you share the Tao Bao link where you got him from? I only found a MaoQiu backpack on AliExpress, but no soft toy.
I did see an official mini MaoQiu on eBay.
You know the oversized Mao Qiu I found on eBay actually described him as "Xiangliu Chicken"?? Mao Qiu must be appalled to be relegated to poultry of the non-flying variety! LOL. But now that you mention it, I finally found him on eBay too at a considerably steeper price of ~USD50. Certainly far more expensive than Taobao. This is the Taobao link I got him from. Hopefully he comes home for you soon too.
I didn't see the official mini Mao Qiu though. Can you please share the link?
What surprises me is that to date, I don't see any official merchandise of the ice crystal globe. I have seen official and/or unofficial replicas of the big-bellied doll and even the xingxing mirror, but not the globe.
And yes, I agree about his master too. He really needs to sign up for the communications course pronto!
Xiang Liu and all 9 of his stubborn, noble idiot heads need to sign up to my communication class.
You know the oversized Mao Qiu I found on eBay actually described him as "Xiangliu Chicken"?? Mao Qiu must be appalled to be relegated to poultry of the non-flying variety! LOL.
Haha! I think I saw that same listing. Mao Qiu will be pooping on whoever came up with that description just like he pooped on WYL :-). The 30cm one was not very cute, which was why I didn't buy it.
Thank you for the link. I put in an order already. You saved me a good chunk of money, so now I can buy this adorable little bundle!
It's a mini XL!!! Look at his rosy cheeks and big eyes!!! They are determine to take all of my money :-). Remember how we were complaining that they didn't have a mini version of XL? Well, looks like they heard our whinning and here he is. It looks like his clothes are removable unlike the mini FFB. Now, if only they will release a big version of FFB!
What surprises me is that to date, I don't see any official merchandise of the ice crystal globe. I have seen official and/or unofficial replicas of the big-bellied doll and even the xingxing mirror, but not the globe.
Do you think it's because it's too difficult to make a good one? The prop in the drama was already, hmmm, questionable :-). Perhaps, they will release it at a later date, like this mini XL doll. Along with a big FFB :-)
I didn't see the official mini Mao Qiu though. Can you please share the link?
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/156317042058?var=457365771329
The price isn't exactly friendly.
Xiang Liu and all 9 of his stubborn, noble idiot heads need to sign up to my communication class.
Definitely!
Haha! I think I saw that same listing. Mao Qiu will be pooping on whoever came up with that description just like he pooped on WYL :-). The 30cm one was not very cute, which was why I didn't buy it.
Yes I think that seller runs the risk of getting the same treatment as Wen Xiao Liu!
Thank you for the link. I put in an order already. You saved me a good chunk of money, so now I can buy this adorable little bundle!
You're welcome!
And thank you for reminding me about the mini Xiang Liu. It's gorgeous! Looks like it's a pre-order though, only shipped in Dec. Where did you order it from? I saw it on Taobao on the RUA store. Is it available elsewhere currently? Did you buy the mini-FFB and mini-Mao Qiu too? Looks like the only shipment options (air and ship) are to accumulate the package weight up to 0.5kg before it ships. Not very familiar with this kind of shipment but am wondering if this means that even the ready stock (FFB, Mao Qiu) won't be shipped until they make up the package weight? *confuzzled*
Do you think it's because it's too difficult to make a good one? The prop in the drama was already, hmmm, questionable :-). Perhaps, they will release it at a later date, like this mini XL doll. Along with a big FFB :-)
I really hope so. That is something I really would love to own (apart from grumpy pants dolls and their fluffball winged mounts!).
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/156317042058?var=457365771329
The price isn't exactly friendly.
Ouch. Certainly, a lot more affordable on Taobao.
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