plor20 , thanks for inspiring the idea of a scene comparison between the novel and the drama. I thought I’d take the opportunity to do one for our recent topic. The changes in this scene of XY and XL from S2 Ep. 11 are rather interesting. It’s a good example of how TH alters dialogue to add depth and nuance from the novel to the drama, even introducing a new intriguing layer to the narrative in the scene. Below, I’ve included the novel text from Ch. 35, marking the changes and adding the drama’s newer elements.
Three key points of interest:
- Dialogue Addition: TH incorporates the line, “For a general, the best ending is to die on the battlefield” from Ch. 29. It fits seamlessly and is highly relevant for the scene. By including it here, XY gains direct insight into XL’s perspective on the matter.
- XY’s Pain: In the drama, XY vocalizes her resentment aloud to XL, expressing her pain and anger toward her mother and fourth uncle for choosing to die in the war and abandoning her as a child. In contrast, the novel has XY reflecting internally on her fourth uncle’s decision to die with his soldiers, despite his love for his wife and CX. This change makes XY’s feelings more explicit to XL.
- XL’s Memory: In the novel, XL mentions carrying the memory of his fallen comrades in his heart. However, in the drama, TH alters the comment to reflect on XL’s nine heads and his inability to forget anything. This subtle change is brilliant because it reinforces XY’s words about living on in XL’s memory, giving him something to mull over – just as he does with everything else XY has said to him. Imo, this is the kind of detail work that paves the way for XL’s potential return.
Ch. 35 + S2 Ep. 11
Xiang Liu sat down next to her and said with a smile, "It seems that the rumors are true. You are really the daughter of General Chi Chen."
"Shut up!" Xiao Yao lowered her head and ignored him.
"It's really hard to accept that your father suddenly changed and he is a notorious devil."
"Shut up!"
"You don't understand Chi Chen, but you should understand your mother. Since she chose Chi Chen, you should trust her judgment!"
"I said, shut up!"
"Anyway, you know who your parents are, which is better than me! A demon like me who just crawled out of an egg doesn't even know who my parents are."
Xiao Yao looked up at Xiang Liu, as if he wanted to see clearly whether what Xiang Liu said was true or not. Xiang Liu said seriously, "You also know that I have nine heads, so I can eat more than others. I have been struggling for a living since I was a child. My life was miserable. Sometimes others shouted for war and killing, and sometimes the nine heads wanted to kill each other. Once, I was so hungry that one head almost ate another head..."
Xiao Yao's eyes widened, "Really?"
"No."
"You--" Xiao Yao was almost suffocated.
Xiang Liu continued seriously, "I remember someone once told me, 'People's mentality is very strange. Happiness or unhappiness, pain or no pain, are all achieved through comparison.' I am telling you about my miserable past so that you can compare and see that you have a good life!"
Xiao Yao remembered that the "someone" was her. Xiao Yao said dissatisfiedly, "I didn't make up a lie!"
"It's true that I came out of an egg, and it's true that I have nine heads. The rest..." Xiang Liu tapped his forehead and muttered, "It's so easy to make up. What did I just say?"
Xiao Yao didn't know whether she should be angry or laugh, but the sadness in her heart really faded a lot.
Xiang Liu asked, "Do you still need me to tell you some of my tragic past so that you can feel that having a father who is a big devil is actually nothing?"
XY: No need.
XL: Be it you deities or we demons, no one can choose their origin. So, why get hung up on something that happened before you were born?
Xiao Yao glared at Xiang Liu and asked, "Have you seen Chi Chen?" Perhaps because Xiang Liu was a demon, it was much easier to mention Chi Chen in front of him.
"No. When I really followed my adoptive father, Chi Chen was already dead.""What is the relationship between Gong Gong and Chi Chen?"
"Back then, the relationship was very bad, almost hostile, but after Chi Chen died, my adoptive father would offer sacrifices to Chi Che when he offered sacrifices to Zhu Rong." Xiang Liu smiled and said sarcastically, "You can't expect those people to have a good relationship back then. If they had, Shen Nong Kingdom would not have been destroyed."
XY: It’s said that Chi Chen was cunning and heartless. But why did he insist on taking the path that was a dead end?
XL: The war lasted for over 100 years with heavy casualties. Perhaps, rather than living in pain and mourning his people, it was better to die. For a general, the best ending is to die in battle. (Pulled from Ch. 29 after their meal at the donkey meat restaurant with LRC’s one-armed uncle.)
XY: What about you?
Xiao Yao was silent for a while, and suddenly asked, "Xiang Liu, why did you choose Gong Gong (Hong Jiang)? Is it just because he is your adoptive father?" Xiao Yao didn't know why she had the courage to ask this question, probably because Xiang Liu tonight didn't look like Xiang Liu!
"Not only for my adoptive father, but also for my comrades who fought side by side and lived and died together. We drank together, fought together, and buried our comrades together..." Xiang Liu looked at the memorial tablet on the table, "Over the past few hundred years, can you imagine how many bodies of my comrades I have cremated with my own hands?"
XL: It’s been centuries. Their bodies have long since turned to dust. But I have nine heads. It’s impossible to forget something. Even now, I remember their voices and faces.Xiao Yao couldn't imagine it, but she could understand Xiang Liu's meaning, just like her fourth uncle, who could have escaped and loved her fourth aunt and Zhuan Xu, but chose to die with his comrades. In this world, there are some friendships that cannot be abandoned even if it means sacrificing one's life.
Xiang Liu smiled and pointed to his heart, “I can’t count them anymore, but they are all here.
XY: My mother once told me that there are things we must hold on to even at the cost of our lives. Fourth Uncle abandoned Auntie and Cang Xuan. My mother abandoned me. If they were not my relatives, I would find them awe-inspiring. But as a daughter, no matter how awe-inspiring my mother might be, I don’t want to forgive her!
Xiao Yao tearfully places her head down and stops talking. Xiang Liu silently sits by her side, watching over her as XY gradually falls asleep. (Crossfade)
A single snowflake slowly drifts and gently lands on XY’s forehead, waking her. XY raises her head, only to find herself alone and XL gone.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
(continued scene from Ch. 35)
Xiao Yao buried her head in her knees, silent, feeling a sense of panic in her heart, but she couldn't tell whether it was for Xiang Liu or for herself.
"What are you thinking about?"
"As Chi Chen's daughter, the world is so big, but there is nowhere to go."
Xiang Liu lifted up Xiao Yao's head and said, "If all else fails, just set sail. The sky is high and the sea is vast. There is nowhere you can't find a place to stay."
Xiao Yao remembered that she already had a body like a mermaid. The boundless sea was a nightmare for others, but it was her paradise. Even if Xuan Yuan and Gao Xin could not accommodate her, she could still go to the sea. It was like suddenly discovering a secret escape route that no one knew about. Xiao Yao actually felt a little relieved.
She stared at Xiang Liu. The man in front of her was clearly the playboy. But when she was about to be confused, a strand of white hair fell from his hood, reminding her who he was. Xiao Yao gently touched his white hair and said, "It's not appropriate to stay here for long. Let's leave after paying tribute to your old friend!"
Because she had just cried, Xiao Yao's eyes were exceptionally clear, and Xiang Liu could clearly see himself in her eyes. He reached out and stroked her eyes, closing them, "I'm leaving!"
Xiao Yao only felt a soft and cool feeling on her forehead, which disappeared immediately after a light touch. Xiao Yao suddenly covered her forehead and opened her eyes, but there was no one in front of her.
In both the novel and the drama, Xiang Liu asks Xiao Yao the question, “Who do you want me to be?” three times during the two years they spend together in Xuan Yuan before FFB reveals his identity. However, I noticed that in the drama, XL asks XY additional similar questions exactly twice throughout the series. While a couple of these questions appear once in the novel, most are new and are asked for a second time in the drama. Here’s a list:
“Who do you want me to be?”
(After their first visit encouraging Left Ear; when XY shoots an arrow at FFB during an archery lesson; and when FFB raids her bedroom at night.)
“Are you scared?” (Do you dare?)*
(While offering XY to continue archery lessons in the Central Plains.)
“Will you hate me?”
(During their 37 years undersea.)
“Are you scared?” (Do you dare?)*
(While asking to go for a second ocean date at CX’s wedding.)
“Who do you want to spend your life with?”
(While gambling at LRC’s casino after XY’s engagement)
“Are you worried about my safety?”
(While walking together after their meal at the donkey meat tavern.)
“Do you hate me?”
(Immediately after the runaway wedding.)
“Who do you most want to spend your life with?”
(During the month-long stay in Qingshui Town)
“Are you worried about me?”
(While meeting on the beach during CX-AN’s wedding)
(Did I miss any?)
What does this “ask twice” habit from XL mean? Based on these questions, it seems to suggest that XL is trying to gauge XY’s true feelings for him. It doesn’t come across as if XL is certain of XY’s feelings – instead he seems to be seeking reassurance or clarity. Yet, XY isn’t able to give him a sincere or straightforward answer. Does this pattern reflect XL’s internal struggle or his way of navigating their complicated dynamic?
* The original subtitle translation shows this question as "Are you scared?" However, the spoken phrase in Chinese is closer to "Do you dare?" It does not use the same term for "scared" that XY used but is similar in meaning as it carries an underlying challenge about fear.
What does this “ask twice” habit from XL mean? Based on these questions, it seems to suggest that XL is trying to gauge XY’s true feelings for him. It doesn’t come across as if XL is certain or confident of XY’s feelings – instead he seems to be seeking reassurance or clarity. Yet, XY isn’t able to give him a sincere or straightforward answer. Does this pattern reflect XL’s internal struggle or his way of navigating their complicated dynamic?Snowcup:
Is it only two times? Three is part of the language of myth and story.
In the drama we seem to be given contradictory information. On the one hand, the Lovers Bug should inform XL exactly what XY is feeling. OTOH, sometimes, the way Tan Jian Ci portrays him, it seems as if XL isn't certain and is seeking the answer for himself. I think, however, that XL does know the answer, but asks in an effort to get XY to admit it, instead of lying to herself. You also have to look at the scene it occurs. For example, I think "Are you scared?" is more of a goad or dare, so she'll put aside the princess and give in to be free and spend time with him.
Is it only two times? Three is part of the language of myth and story.Kokuto:
In the drama we seem to be given contradictory information. On the one hand, the Lovers Bug should inform XL exactly what XY is feeling. OTOH, sometimes, the way Tan Jian Ci portrays him, it seems as if XL isn't certain and is seeking the answer for himself. I think, however, that XL does know the answer, but asks in an effort to get XY to admit it, instead of lying to herself.
That’s a great point about the significance of the number three in storytelling, as it can add symbolic weight, and I think the original line, “Who do you want me to be?” plays that role well. Also, really glad you brought up the lovers bugs conundrum.
I did find another, “Are you scared?” question when XL shows up in WXL’s bedroom to heal his injuries early on. But that instance happened before the lovers bugs were planted. The pattern of asking these questions seems to kick in after the bugs are in place, and I think the questions after that carry more subtext and meaning than just the surface level.
Tbh, I don’t overthink the lovers bugs. I got the impression TH was intentionally vague about them, giving just enough information to move the plot along. We might assume the bugs should give XL direct insight into XY’s feelings, but I’m not convinced that’s how they work. Feeling emotions isn’t the same as understanding what those emotions mean. Even with the bugs, it’s unlikely XL would automatically know why XY feels a certain way or what those feelings signify. That’s where communication should come in. But as we know already, communication is the weakest link between XL and XY, which is probably why XL keeps asking these questions. I think it’s more likely that he isn’t certain about her feelings. He’s trying to fill in the gaps himself.
You also have to look at the scene it occurs. For example, I think "Are you scared?" is more of a goad or dare, so she'll put aside the princess and give in to be free and spend time with him.Kokuto:
I like your interpretation of the “Are you scared?” question as a goad or dare. In moments like these, it may feel less about XL seeking answers and more about provoking XY to act. That said, the delivery of the question might also depend on the wording itself, like how “scared” can sound overly serious unless it’s softened in jest. It’s possible XL’s questions serve multiple purposes. For example, they might reflect his own need for answers, his desire to push XY toward self-awareness, and his way of testing the boundaries of their relationship all at once.
I think the subtext behind the question, “Are you scared?” ties back to the sea kiss rejection, when XY said she was “scared” and that he wasn’t suitable to appear in a girl’s dream (ouch). XL brings this up again when they meet in the Central Plains, right after XY learns he’s FFB. He offers to continue their archery lessons and slips in the question. On one hand, it feels like he’s daring her to accept his offer, but it’s also likely he wants to hear that she’s no longer scared — and maybe that he’s no longer “unsuitable,” especially after the two years they just spent together in Xuan Yuan.
As for the original line, “Who do you want me to be?” — this question, asked three times, carries slightly different meanings, depending on when it’s posed, but it seems to revolve around XL’s hope that XY remembers him as XL. The first time he asks is after they both encourage Left Ear. He tells her he could have been a slave in the fighting arena, and XY immediately thinks of XL, asking, “Who are you?” His response, “Who do you want me to be?” feels like he’s probing to see if she still remembers him or misses him in her life. It’s both a reminder to XY and a way to gauge if he still holds a place in her life and potentially in her heart.
XY remembering him is really important to XL. Looking back at the sea kiss rejection in the novel, there’s the line about XL being “like a sword without a hilt, so sharp and lonely that no one in the world could approach him.” The novel mentions XY feeling “stuffy in her chest” or like her “heart ached with this pressure,” and she suddenly thinks to give him the latest poison she’d made for him. Almost instantly, “Xiang Liu’s coldness suddenly faded,” when he realizes she’d thought of him enough to prepare the poison. That heart pressure XY felt was likely tied to XL’s pain, thinking she intended to cut off contact with him, especially since her first words to him were about pretending not to know him if they met again.
Honestly, it would probably take an essay to unpack the individual meanings behind each of these questions, but for now, it’s safe to say they’re more meaningful than they might seem at first glance.
Which brings us to potentially another topic about XL’s lines in general in the drama. There is a lot of double talk from XL in the drama.
*Note: I originally listed “Are you scared?” as a repeated question from XL since that’s how it appeared in the English subtitles. But when I listened again, I noticed the phrasing sounded different from XY’s use. When I checked the Chinese subtitles, the spoken line in both instances is closer to “Do you dare?” It seems the English subtitles were translated that way since it conveys an underlying challenge about fear. Just wanted to clarify.
I did find another, “Are you scared?” question when XL shows up in WXL’s bedroom to heal his injuries early on. But that instance happened before the lovers bugs were planted. The pattern of asking these questions seems to kick in after the bugs are in place, and I think the questions after that carry a lot more subtext and meaning than just the surface level.Snowcup:
Hmmm. Trying to remember now ... XL did ask questions before the Lovers Bug, but I don't think it was the same sort or for the same purpose -- they are more specific. For example, he asked why WXL was angry at Jing? He asked if she grew up in Haolin?
Tbh, I don’t overthink the lovers bugs. I got the impression TH was intentionally vague about them, giving just enough information to move the plot along. We might assume the bugs should give XL direct insight into XY’s feelings, but I’m not convinced that’s how they work. Feeling emotions isn’t the same as understanding what those emotions mean. Even with the bugs, it’s unlikely XL would automatically know why XY feels a certain way or what those feelings signify.Snowcup:
The main information from the Lovers Bug is that XL and XY are in love with each other. They will always be in each others heart, and their hearts will beat as one. If not, then it becomes the Heartbreak Bug. So, XL knows that XY has him her heart.
Has XL had trouble understanding what XY's emotions mean? He could be asking those questions to gage her emotional responses, hoping for a change? Others would say no, since they don't think he had intention of deviating from he plans.
It’s possible XL’s questions serve multiple purposes. For example, they might reflect his own need for answers, his desire to push XY toward self-awareness, and his way of testing the boundaries of their relationship all at onceSnowcup:
Yes, entirely possible that there are multiple reasons for XL's questions.
I think the subtext behind the question, “Are you scared?” ties back to the sea kiss rejection, when XY said she was “scared” and that he wasn’t suitable to appear in a girl’s dream (ouch). XL brings this up again when they meet in the Central Plains, right after XY learns he’s FFB. He offers to continue their archery lessons and slips in the question. On one hand, it feels like he’s daring her to accept his offer, but it’s also likely he wants to hear that she’s no longer scared — and maybe that he’s no longer “unsuitable,” especially after the two years they just spent together in Xuan Yuan.Snowcup:
Interesting. I can see how that ties back to the beach rejection, too. XL does not forget anything XY says.
As for the original line, “Who do you want me to be?” — this question, asked three times, carries slightly different meanings, depending on when it’s posed, but it seems to revolve around XL’s hope that XY remembers him as XL. The first time he asks is after they both encourage Left Ear. He tells her he could have been a slave in the fighting arena, and XY immediately thinks of XL, asking, “Who are you?” His response, “Who do you want me to be?” Feels like he’s probing to see if she still remembers him or misses him in her life. It’s both a reminder to XY and a way to gauge if he still holds a place in her life and potentially in her heart.Snowcup:
Again, I think this is something he knows, but he I wants her to acknowledge her feelings for XL. To not be afraid to let him walk in her dreams. Though, again, there's a disagreement about what his intent was in spending time with her as FFB and if he still meant to start a romantic relationship with her at that point. Though, I think it is interesting that when he first meets her as FFB, he wants her to remember his name.
Honestly, it would probably take an essay to unpack the individual meanings behind each of these questions, but for now, it’s safe to say they’re more meaningful than they might seem at first glance.Snowcup:
Which brings us to potentially another topic about XL’s lines in general in the drama. There is a lot of double talk from XL in the drama.
LOL! Yes, there's been plenty of discussion over XL's words and questions. And both XL and XY indulge in doubletalk, which is why we are always parsing their discussions.
Hmmm. Trying to remember now ... XL did ask questions before the Lovers Bug, but I don't think it was the same sort or for the same purpose -- they are more specific. For example, he asked why WXL was angry at Jing? He asked if she grew up in Haolin?Kokuto:
I meant the “ask twice” pattern starts after the lovers bugs, not that XL didn’t ask XY questions before. Their interactions in Qingshui Town were so much fun!
The main information from the Lovers Bug is that XL and XY are in love with each other. They will always be in each others heart, and their hearts will beat as one. If not, then it becomes the Heartbreak Bug. So, XL knows that XY has him her heart.Kokuto:
Is that the general consensus? I see it a bit differently. The Shaman King explained the PLB ties the emotions and lives of the lovers together and the danger from the heartbreak bugs. However, the situation with CX-XY’s bug connection made it ambiguous. Even though it was short-lived, CX and XY could still sense each other. TH seems to reinforce this in the drama when the Li Rong uncle tells XL in S1 (here) that the bugs are “mysteriously unpredictable” and “perhaps it’s possible” for them to work even if there’s no love between the couple (when XL asks about it). Li Rong does warn it could lead to “troubles,” but we also know XL has some level of control over the bugs as seen from S1 (here) and the novel.
What we know for sure is that the receiver (XL) must have love for the bug to transfer to him, and the raiser (XY) can’t control the bugs. The novel makes it clear that XL was “wholeheartedly” or “heart and soul” willing to accept the lovers bug, which is strong evidence of his love. But what about XY’s love? Neither the drama nor the novel spells it out that clearly. That said, I do think that XL and XY share romantic love that aligns with the lovers bug connection. I just don’t think the bugs alone are a definitive indicator of XY’s love.
Also, let’s not forget the “poisonous” part of the PLB. We often overlook the fact that these bugs are inherently dangerous and unpredictable — like temperamental lovers. The bug connection has the potential for both good and bad, which could lead to… uncertainty.
Btw, has it been discussed how XY seemed to faint more often and more quickly from XL’s bites after the lovers bugs? :-)
Has XL had trouble understanding what XY's emotions mean? He could be asking those questions to gage her emotional responses, hoping for a change? Others would say no, since they don't think he had intention of deviating from he plans.Kokuto:
It's okay if others have different interpretations. Whether or not he had any intentions there, XL did ask XY these questions repeatedly about her feelings.
Just curious, but did you find any of your thoughts/interpretations change from participating on this thread or would you say your impressions have stayed fairly consistent?
Again, I think this is something he knows, but he I wants her to acknowledge her feelings for XL. To not be afraid to let him walk in her dreams. Though, again, there's a disagreement about what his intent was in spending time with her as FFB and if he still meant to start a romantic relationship with her at that point. Though, I think it is interesting that when he first meets her as FFB, he wants her to remember his name.Kokuto:
Everything FFB said to XY felt like what XL truly wanted to express, but could only do so under the guise of FFB’s playful banter.
Remember the time XL/FFB took XY to the slave fighting arena, when Left Ear is fighting his final match to freedom after 40 years? I posted it as XL's life philosophy on the main board last year. This is what I think XL was doing.
(S1 ep. 34)
XY: Winning consecutively for 40 years, how did he do it?
XL: Just like what you did in the nine-tailed fox cage.
Following your heart, with endless patience, and waiting a long time, as well as never giving up that faint hope.
XY: What are you talking about?
XL: What do you think I’m talking about?
Very good points, guys. Unfortunately, I don't have time atm to join the discussion, but just a few things off the top of my head
It's true that Voddoo King never spells it out clearly that the raiser should also be wholeheartedly willing, but he does mention that both bugs are equally powerful, so IMO he did establish a reciprocity. The name itself "lover's gu" does that too. We do know from XL that what began as a baby tiger grew to a dragon, so if XY's feelings weren't as strong as XL's, I don't believe the growth would have taken place. Also, XY wasn't able to save CX's life through the bugs when he got injured, because he didn't accept the bug willingly and wholeheartedly, she had to look for those ice crystals instead. XL was able to save XY' s life twice through the bugs because both of them accepted them willingly, therefore the life and death connection was established too.
But bugs aside, to me what actually seals the deal about XY's true feelings is the crystal ball and her inability to answer Shiqi when asked about who does she want to spend her entire life with.
I personally don't believe FFB's goal was to pursue XY, but it's a lot to say on this topic. However, taking XY to the slave fighting arena happened on Jing's coronation day and to me it's pretty clear that what XL tried to do was to push her not to give up hope on Jing and his promise just because of that. XL knew Jing's feelings for XY were real and XY understood XL's purpose for taking her there, IMO that was clearly suggested by XY's question to XL of wanting to know why did he bring her to the slave fighting arena, as well as her answer to Jing later, when she told him that she did plan to give up on him but she changed her mind. That quote you posted "Following your heart, with endless patience, and waiting a long time, as well as never giving up that faint hope", while XL said it as to point to Jing, is important especially if you put it in the context of XY's reply to XL. I mean one could wait for someone for a long time, she could wait for XL for a long time, but what to do when you don't even have that faint hope, because things are already sealed since before you were born and regardless of how long you are willing to wait. All she could do is cry out her wish of wanting to been born a few hundred years before so she could change his path.
We should keep in mind guys that what XY really wanted was a forever companion, what do you most desire and whom do you actually love are 2 different questions and IMO 2 different answers, that's why she was unable to answer XL's last question, because that question implied both of these things. The question points not only to her desire to spend her entire life with someone, but also to spend it with the one she loves (who do you most want) - which is XL, but he was impossible to spend her entire life with, all while the one who did give her a promise of accompany her forever - shiqi, was not the one she truly loved, so not the one whom she wanted most if that makes sense. Hence her headache. She was getting ready to say XL, because he was the one she most wanted, but it was not possible for him to accompany her for her entire life. Shiqi she couldn't say, because he wasn't the one she most wanted, so what to answer when the question itself involves 2 contradictory aspects.
It's true that Voddoo King never spells it out clearly that the raiser should also be wholeheartedly willing, but he does mention that both bugs are equally powerful, so IMO he did establish a reciprocity. The name itself "lover's gu" does that too. We do know from XL that what began as a baby tiger grew to a dragon, so if XY's feelings weren't as strong as XL's, I don't believe the growth would have taken place. Also, XY wasn't able to save CX's life through the bugs when he got injured, because he didn't accept the bug willingly and wholeheartedly, she had to look for those ice crystals instead. XL was able to save XY' s life twice through the bugs because both of them accepted them willingly, therefore the life and death connection was established too.blabla100:
You bring up some interesting points, but I don’t see the lovers bugs necessarily proving reciprocity in love. The bugs being “equal in power” refers to their function, not to the emotional state of the couple. And just because the bugs grew doesn’t mean its growth depended on XY’s feelings matching XL’s. If the Gu magic is “mysteriously unpredictable,” the mechanics aren’t bound to rules. This creates unlimited possibilities for explaining XY-CX’s example.
Ultimately, there’s no confirmation saying the raiser must feel love for the bug bond to work. The Shaman King does say, “Yang cannot exist alone, Yin cannot grow alone,” which suggests the bugs require a connection between both people. But that doesn’t mean their feelings must be the same. The bugs are also described as unstable and difficult to control, again reinforcing the lack of precise rules. It’s more than likely TH left room to allow for different interpretations. I do think XL and XY share mutual romantic love, but that comes from their interactions, not just from the bugs.
But bugs aside, to me what actually seals the deal about XY's true feelings is the crystal ball and her inability to answer Shiqi when asked about who does she want to spend her entire life with.blabla100:
Agreed on the crystal ball – it’s the single time XY confesses her true feelings to XL.
I personally don't believe FFB's goal was to pursue XY, but it's a lot to say on this topic. However, taking XY to the slave fighting arena happened on Jing's coronation day and to me it's pretty clear that what XL tried to do was to push her not to give up hope on Jing and his promise just because of that. XL knew Jing's feelings for XY were real and XY understood XL's purpose for taking her there, IMO that was clearly suggested by XY's question to XL of wanting to know why did he bring her to the slave fighting arena, as well as her answer to Jing later, when she told him that she did plan to give up on him but she changed her mind. That quote you posted "Following your heart, with endless patience, and waiting a long time, as well as never giving up that faint hope", while XL said it as to point to Jing, is important especially if you put it in the context of XY's reply to XL. I mean one could wait for someone for a long time, she could wait for XL for a long time, but what to do when you don't even have that faint hope, because things are already sealed since before you were born and regardless of how long you are willing to wait. All she could do is cry out her wish of wanting to been born a few hundred years before so she could change his path.blabla100:
It’s true that XL was beginning to distance himself from XY at this point, but the visit to Left Ear’s final victory was a culmination of a 40-year journey that XL and XY had shared, from Xuan Yuan to the Central Plains to 37 years under the sea. Left Ear even mentioned that FFB watched 7 of his matches, which suggests XL kept tabs on his welfare and saw some of his matches during the 37 years with XY. Are you referring to the scene when XY tells XL she wishes she had been the one to save him? I remember being so surprised when the tender moment between them shifted so suddenly. It wasn’t until reading the novel later that I realized XL already knew Jing was approaching. Your interpretation of the phrase caught me off guard. TH altered the novel’s dialogue in this scene for the drama. Originally, XL’s line was commenting on XY’s resilience, but it became self-revealing due to two additions: “Following your heart” and the familiar question-to-question exchange that mirrors their “Who do you want me to be?” dynamic – shared just between them. That shift in framing subtly changes the meaning.
We should keep in mind guys that what XY really wanted was a forever companion, what do you most desire and whom do you actually love are 2 different questions and IMO 2 different answers, that's why she was unable to answer XL's last question, because that question implied both of these things. The question points not only to her desire to spend her entire life with someone, but also to spend it with the one she loves (who do you most want) - which is XL, but he was impossible to spend her entire life with, all while the one who did give her a promise of accompany her forever - shiqi, was not the one she truly loved, so not the one whom she wanted most if that makes sense. Hence her headache. She was getting ready to say XL, because he was the one she most wanted, but it was not possible for him to accompany her for her entire life. Shiqi she couldn't say, because he wasn't the one she most wanted, so what to answer when the question itself involves 2 contradictory aspects.blabla100:
I agree that XL’s question – "Who do you most want to spend your life with?" – held extra meaning for XY since it was the second time he asked, carrying the subtext from the first. She took it as two questions in one. But her inability to respond at the most pivotal moments isn't fully realistic. She still had the chance to explain her feelings – it’s not like XL was holding her to a word limit. Lol.
@snowcup
"Ultimately, there’s no confirmation saying the raiser must feel love for the bug bond to work."
I actually agree with you on this one, but up to a point. In fact I do hope someone who has a better recollection than me will point out that that's not the case, but this forum became a little dead lately, so I doubt that will happen. However, when judging the bugs, I personally do keep în mind TH's other novels and her style of writting, I mean most of her novels has some sort of symbol between their lovers, I believe song in the clouds has the green shoes or a bracelet (can't recall exactly though, since I haven't finished that novel), once promised has the red gown, memory lost in space has a mask with a blood oath written on it and finally lyf has the bugs. Yes, there is also the purple jade that Jing gave her, but that's as useless as Jing, since one - he is the giver and second because XY already has the ability to breath under water even without it and the main reason why she got interested into these jades în the first place was because of her passion for the water. Jing basically made her an offer and all she did was accepting it, but that's different when it comes to the bugs, the bugs were an exchange of hearts between both XL and XY. Definetely intentional on TH's part. I believe sound of the desert also has a token or something, but I can't recall between whom. The style is very similar, but as I said before, it's not the bugs that convinced me of XY's true feelings, to me they just act as a background. Also, let's not forget the poem, the doves don't fly alone, the mandarin ducks în the water die togheter, that definetely points to a pair of lovers and soulmates IMO. XL removed the bugs precisely because the bugs weren't "mysteriously unpredictable", on the contrary. As much as XL was able to save XY's life through the bugs, the same way XY would have died when XL died. It's a 2 way bond, live in love or die in heartbreak. The mandarin ducks - în chinese culture they represent a lifelong couple - can't survive without his pair. Also, as the FL from memory lost în space said, judging a person should be based on what he did not say and not on what he said and I can't help but thinking that out of all the novels I have read of TH, lyf is the only novel that doesn't have a love night between the leads, however it does have XL-XY's 37 years underwater. The fact that TH denied Jing even the wedding night speaks volumes.
"the visit to Left Ear’s final victory was a culmination of a 40-year journey"
That's the thing, I personally don't believe some facts matter much to the story or that TH wrote them with an important purpose, other than taking use of some things în order to have the message she wanted to portray cover. I mean it's not like I am reading Agatha Christie and all the clues matter. What I believe is important in that particular scene is XL's intention and the message he, IMO, has sent to XY, about not giving up on believing in Jing's promise just because he is now the clan leader. The fact that his coronation happened on left ear's final fight is nothing more than TH's way to make things happen and give them a context or a background. IMO. Same goes regarding the war, people speculate so many things about the chances of winning the war, but I honestly believe TH made it clear since the beggining that the remnant army is doomed to lose and both XL and XY were aware of that.
""Who do you most want to spend your life with?" – held extra meaning for XY since it was the second time he asked, carrying the subtext from the first. She took it as two questions in one. But her inability to respond at the most pivotal moments isn't fully realistic"
I am curious how you interpret XY's refusal to answer the last question. What do you believe her answer would have been, especially keeping în mind that her first instinct was to answer it but backed off immediately? "Xiao Yao opened her mouth to answer" but "Her mind refused to let her say what her heart felt" points that she was getting ready to answer with her heart, XL, but her mind made her to back off. To me the question itself has 2 conflictual points to XY, regardless of what was added în the drama. Spending her entirely life with someone -shiqi, because between XL and shiqi only shiqi could fit this box =/ whom do you most want - which was XL, he was the one whom she most wanted, meaning the one she loved. The drama emphasized the importance of the Crystal Ball by adding the casino's extra question, the one I love îs the one who's going to spend his life with me, therefore the timing of XY working on the Crystal Ball, the mermaid who's pleading with the merman to accept her hand and all that. Volume 2 where these things happen it's called confession of the heart if I am not mistaken, so to me it's pretty obvious where her heart lays. Her heart wanted love, but her mind wanted peace and a normal life, a life she never had but always craved next to someone.
"Will you stop chasing the distance when the last rose withers and find that you have missed the most beautiful flowering season ?
Will you stop complaining about the cold when the last snowflake disappears and find that you have missed the beauty of winter ?
Will you only remember the faded memories of the years after you leave with tears ?
Will you only remember that you haven't cherished it well after you lose it forever ..."
A little song and a quote from memory lost în space that reminded me of lyf.
" On this day, everyone is just a masked person who has no past, no future, and only lives în the present. They can break free of their identity and simply enjoy the joy in front of them."
I haven't started watching The Filter yet. However today I saw a post on Facebook saying that Xangliu's Ost theme song - Wait was used in The Filter when the male lead was heartbroken in Ep 7.
Below is the link for that post.
https://fb.watch/ypjoB-uAP_/
Was The Filter produced by the same company which made LYF? I know that Tong Hua was screen writer of that drama too.
H19279:
I haven't started watching The Filter yet. However today I saw a post on Facebook saying that Xangliu's Ost theme song - Wait was used in The Filter when the male lead was heartbroken in Ep 7.
Below is the link for that post.
https://fb.watch/ypjoB-uAP_/Was The Filter produced by the same company which made LYF? I know that Tong Hua was screen writer of that drama too.
Yes. Same production company. Lots of LYF Easter eggs. 🤣
H19279:
I haven't started watching The Filter yet. However today I saw a post on Facebook saying that Xangliu's Ost theme song - Wait was used in The Filter when the male lead was heartbroken in Ep 7.
Below is the link for that post.
https://fb.watch/ypjoB-uAP_/Was The Filter produced by the same company which made LYF? I know that Tong Hua was screen writer of that drama too.
Yes, they also used the music from the brothel scene when XY first saw FFB climbing the stairs with the dancer and his image was reflected on her eyes. FILTER also has the same BGM OST composer.
The style is very similar, but as I said before, it's not the bugs that convinced me of XY's true feelings, to me they just act as a background.blabla100:
Ditto. That’s why, going back to my original point, I suspect the lovers bugs wouldn’t be enough for XL to be certain of XY’s feelings for him. Imo, the bug connection created hurdles for their relationship, even while it allowed XL to save XY’s life over and over again.
What I believe is important in that particular scene is XL's intention and the message he, IMO, has sent to XY, about not giving up on believing in Jing's promise just because he is now the clan leader. The fact that his coronation happened on left ear's final fight is nothing more than TH's way to make things happen and give them a context or a background. IMO.blabla100:
While XL taking XY to the fighting match arena that day may have been meant to lift XY’s spirits (and perhaps his own), I wouldn’t say he was encouraging her to stay with Jing. Let’s revisit this scene in S1 Ep. 34 (here), which closely follows the novel. A tender moment between XL and XY takes an abrupt sudden turn. I might need to amend my earlier comment about the ice crystal ball being XY’s sole confession of her feelings for XL. In this scene, XY speaks genuinely from her heart, and even XL is visibly moved. Just as his hand is about to caress her cheek, he pulls back. His expression hardens, and he replies with disdain, “You want to save me? You're not worthy,” similar to the novel. (But why these words and why now?) His eyes flash red as he advances toward her menacingly, just as Jing approaches from behind.
The novel mentions XL glanced behind XY when he dropped his hand, suggesting he knew Jing would appear. Was the sudden shift in tone meant to nudge XY toward Jing or was it rooted to prior events? There are four events that might provide context for XL’s explosive reaction:
- Prior parallel with Jing: When Jing interrupted XL and XY discussing how he became FFB, XL tricked XY into throwing an icy blade at Jing. This time, however, he lashes out at XY instead. What prompted the change?
- XY spent several months at Xin Yue’s estate: After XL/FFB polished off XY’s poison apology gift, he told her he’d be away for a while. XY then spent months at Xin Yue’s estate, where she and Jing shared significant time together. Through the bug connection, XL would have been acutely aware of this development. He seemingly avoided XY and the Central Plains until the Plum Blossom Forest attack.
- The dance hall deal with Jing (S1 Ep. 29, here): And yet, XL did manage to meet with Jing. This added scene shows XL hesitating to close a deal with Jing when XY’s archery lessons are added to the terms. Like his other deals that are tied with actions he already planned to take, this one appears to reflect an attempt to step back from XY – perhaps due to feelings of betrayal or her perceived choice of Jing. His conflicted emotions might suggest he’s not fully committed to the deal.
- After the 37 years undersea: XY woke up alone, with XL conspicuously absent. Imo, XL wasn't certain of XY’s feelings – both for him and for Jing. He wanted to give her the freedom to choose, rather than make her feel indebted. However, XY interpreted his absence as his lack of feelings toward her, despite the 37 years they shared together. This misunderstanding likely upset her, and whether it influenced her interactions with Jing afterward, XL could have viewed it as her choosing between them again.
Taken together, these events may have influenced XL’s sudden shift in tone during what could have been a breakthrough moment for him and XY. Instead, with Jing’s arrival, I think XL reacted partly out of a sense of betrayal and jealousy, fueled by XY’s past and recent actions. He also may have been honoring his earlier agreement with Jing. While Left Ear’s freedom served as the backdrop, following his heart and the “faint hope” XL spoke of – sustained him through the 40 years that preceded that night. I wouldn’t consider that unimportant.
I am curious how you interpret XY's refusal to answer the last question. What do you believe her answer would have been, especially keeping în mind that her first instinct was to answer it but backed off immediately? "Xiao Yao opened her mouth to answer" but "Her mind refused to let her say what her heart felt" points that she was getting ready to answer with her heart, XL, but her mind made her to back off.blabla100:
It’s a clear refusal to answer. All she needed to say was one word: You. None of the details truly matter for this kind of question. The scene was well executed, but I don’t feel as much sympathy for XY here as you seem to. I wish she could have drawn from her true feelings for XL, as she did that night when Left Ear was freed. This isn’t an isolated moment either – XY had over a month+ in Qingshui Town to say everything she possibly wanted to XL.
The drama emphasized the importance of the Crystal Ball by adding the casino's extra question, the one I love îs the one who's going to spend his life with me, therefore the timing of XY working on the Crystal Ball, the mermaid who's pleading with the merman to accept her hand and all that.blabla100:
I don’t think the drama’s timing correlates the casino question and the ice crystal ball, as they occurred a few years apart in the series. The casino scene happened just after XY’s engagement, while the crystal ball creation process (which was discussed previously, felt too rushed in the drama) didn’t appear until after XY agreed to set a wedding date.
However, the timing in the novel might align better. Both the engagement and crystal ball creation process spanned about four years in the novel. While the novel didn’t include the casino question, the meal at the donkey meat tavern, their conversations that day, and the doorway farewell scene could have inspired XY to start the crystal ball process. XY was clearly disappointed by XL’s lack of response to her engagement with FL, which might have been a driving factor.
@snowcup Sorry it took a while. But here is my scene evaluation of the don't bite me.
Scene: Don't bite here: From literature to live action.
I'd like to discuss a crucial scene that, in my opinion, was altered in both composition and dialogue, ultimately diminishing significant nuances in XY's perspective and diluting the relationship between XY and XL.
When FFB enters XY’s room after successfully stealing a map, severely injured, and approaches XY’s bedside, she suspiciously inflicts further harm by poisoning him. As FFB, XL isn't entirely immune to XY’s poisons. He lets his guard down, weakening his spiritual powers to evade detection. Everything leading up to Cui Liang leaving XY’s room marks the end of the similarities between the novel and the drama.
In the novel, “XY released his hand and lay down beside him, gazing at the ceiling. “Who are you?” XY asked. FFB coldly responded with a question, “Who do you wish me to be?” After a period of silence, XY angrily remarked, “You can be whoever you damn please!”
FFB rises slowly, tilts his head toward XY, poised. Just as his lips are about to touch XY’s neck, she promptly covers it, and he kisses her palm. "Stop," she exclaimed.
FFB momentarily reclines, yet XY turns to her side and presents her wrist. “Bite here.”
“Why not there?” he asks, his expression intense.
At that instant, XY began to long for the easy-going, go-with-the-flow FFB. “Why do you think, FFB?” XY exclaimed.
FFB remained silent for a moment, then reached for her wrist. Two sharp teeth appeared and pierced her flesh. This was the first time XY could see him sucking her blood. There was no pain, just the frisson of cool excitement.
XY observed FFB intently. As he looked in her direction, she promptly closed her eyes in a docile manner. "How is it that I'm still afraid of him?" she pondered.
A while later, XY began to feel dizzy, choosing to remain silent. It was Xuan Yuan Castle, and he needed to recover as swiftly as possible.
Upon finishing drinking her blood, FFB delicately licked the wound, causing the bleeding to cease. As he lowered her wrist, the lingering evidence of the bite resembled a mark akin to a passionate kiss.
“Xiao Yao…” FFB said softly. XY couldn't open her eyes. “I’m fine. I need to heal. After I get a little sleep, I’ll be fine,” she murmured.
FFB swiftly searched through XY’s medicine boxes and retrieved a pill. After administering it to her, he laid down beside her to focus on his own healing.
XY slept until nearly noon. She opened her eyes and gazed at FFB, still lying next to her with his eyes closed. Her heart relaxed, releasing the worry she had been holding onto. XY understood he couldn’t move; yet, he could hear her. Softly, XY tells him, “I’m hungry. I am going out to eat, so you heal in peace.”
XY rose and adjusted the curtains before walking to the corner of her room to get dressed. Once she finished styling her hair, XY left the room. Along the path and by the door, she scattered poison until her heart was free from worry.”
After finishing her meal, she returned to her room. In the following paragraphs, XY reminisces about all the moments she shared with FFB. The paragraph in which she recalls how their archery lessons started is genuinely sweet, and XY was quite amused and didn’t mind him getting close to her. The recollection concludes with XY reassuring herself that she wasn't surprised that FFB was XL. Tong Hua writes, “Last night, upon discovering he was XL, she wasn’t surprised or shocked in the least. It felt as though it had always been this way, a heavy burden in the corner of her heart lifted. However, another burden arose.”
Later that day, she would go see CX, and they would discuss his drug addiction and what caused the night's chaos. After returning at dawn, her bed was neatly made, and XL had already left. XY sat by her bedside, fiddling with her bow callouses in her hands.
————————————
In this part of the novel, XY, lying beside him, demonstrates her trust in him and desire to be close. Despite denying him her neck for healing, she turns toward him and offers her wrist, echoing XY's dream statement—a blend of confession and rejection. These passages encompass all of XY’s mixed emotions towards XL (FFB). Towards FFB, she missed him; towards XL, she is one part fearful, one part obedient, one part excited. In both cases, she felt worried and wanted to protect.
While successfully portraying XL's emotional turmoil, the drama's depiction of this scene altered XY’s perspective and diluted her emotions towards XL. XY's words, “Whatever. I’m healing your wounds. I’m helping you,” as well as the addition of XY’s goodbye, didn't effectively capture the nuances in XY’s emotions toward XL (FFB). Instead, it worked against the initial portrayal. The montage of memories with XL/FFB also lacked the impact of her first encounter with FFB and her initial impression of him. If anything, the scene creates the impression that XY rejected XL out of disinterest, and her willingness to offer her blood seemed more out of pity than care. In conclusion, as powerful as this scene was, it somehow failed to fully capture XY's claustrophobic worries and her strong desire to protect him.
__________
This part is not in my initial analysis but I also will like to address that XL was very worried about her with his desperation in giving her some meds.
And I remember addressing that there are tiny portrayals that would have portrayed XY conflicted feelings such as when XL was sleeping, she could have brushed his hair from his face. But the most disappointing part is the elimination of the eye contact between them. And all JCT fans know how freaking amazing he is with eye contact portrayals. It just freaking breaks or melts your heart....and that should have been a great scene for XL and XY.
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