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Xiang Liu and Xiao Yao’s Story and Romance

HeadInTheClouds
 MountainPine:
I will say that the adaptation is like a meme with pencil drawing of horse.

By this, I'm thinking you mean the drama captured the vague outline of the story, but didn't capture its essence?


 MountainPine:
I would put Yang Zi's acting a little lower than him. But she had the hardest time. Because her character was deprived of any consistency and completely changed the meaning. In the scene where she marries Jing and in the final scene where they walk side by side and she carries a doll - I literally see on her face the expression "I don't know what I'm playing, and what I'm supposed to be playing at all, sorry."

I'm in the minority, but I have a problem with Yang Zi's acting, and I find that it contributed to the overall problem of the drama for me. The script is the major culprit with the way it downplayed and up-played the two balancing relationships. However, I don't think Yang Zi understood the character of Xiao Yao and how much her abandonment fear drove her choices. This further tilted the balance, resulting in the core of the story being warped. I find Xiao Yao in the novel to be more palatable and sympathetic compared to the one in the drama. I don't like drama Xiao Yao at all. I also much preferred the novel's Xiang Liu to the drama's Xiang Liu ;).

What about you? What didn't you like about the drama adaptation?


 MountainPine:
But in general, this novel is like a house of cards. It's enough to pull out one card - and everything will be destroyed.

 

 MountainPine:
this novel is like a certain balance of "yin and yang" (such a Chinese way). And the only thing the author should have protected was this balance.

Exactly. It's a delicate balancing act, and it comes from the character of XY through the XL-XY-TSJ triangle. If you don't maintain this balance, the essence of the story will be lost.

 

 MountainPine:
The novel is a litmus test. Depending on who you root for - it immediately says who you are, and what your general vision of life is.  

Absolutely. Your vision of life, your worldview, your values, how you love and want to be loved. It's such a stark juxtaposition because Xiang Liu and Jing were created to be contrasting characters. If someone likes Xiang Liu, then chances are, they won't like Jing. 

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HeadInTheClouds

I'm slowly making my way through my responses.

 MountainPine:
My only option is rather ordinary: that, in his soul, of course, he wanted to hear a confession, as every lover wants.

That's one of the interpretations. The other one is that it was the last chance that he was giving their relationship. How she responded determined what he would do. For me, their month-long stay in Qing Shui town following the marriage robbery was his last attempt to wait for her to make up her mind and decide which direction she wants to move towards. However, like always, she was passive, and he was forced to ask her those questions. Her lack of an answer to the final one was all the answer he needed. 


 MountainPine:
And on his bitter way of hiding his love, he slipped and fell a few times (poor guy😭), and that is normal. As in the German proverb "You can't hide love and cough."

But why was he hiding his love?

And I love learning these proverbs :-). German is an interesting language; well, all languages are interesting. I find the way certain languages capture specific emotional states fascinating. 


 MountainPine:
But my favorite line about love, heard in a sermon is: the only love that is true is the love that you can control. Xiang Liu was the only one in this story who realized and fully accepted his love, acted like a person who loves, and, most importantly, who could control his love. All the other relationships of all the other characters are something sick and sometimes even disgusting.

Control here means you are able to control yourself and how you love, right?

I like it. It's being able to love without falling victim/slave to the emotion. It required a great deal of maturity. The rest of the relationships in this story came from a place of obsession and fear; it's not romantic or healthy at all. 


 MountainPine:
I didn't notice any signs in the novel that would hint that there is hope for Xiao Yao's recovery. I'm very, very curious what exactly you noticed!

One way to look at it is that it took losing Xiang Liu to force Xiao Yao to realise what she had lost because of her fear. For the majority of the novel, Xiao Yao has been wavering back and forth - Jing represents the "safe choice" due to the confines of her fears, whereas Xiang Liu represents the growth and freedom from facing and working through her fears.  Xiang Liu worked hard to help her grow, but sometimes it takes realising what not changing is costing you for you to make the change. 

While this is not a certainty, I think Xiao Yao in the novel has the potential to recover. Drama's Xiao Yao is a lost cause :-).


 MountainPine:
In fact, he has some special  "talent" for presenting things in a relationship as being solely his merit and feat for her, as an exceptional and great service, and not just the normal state of things. 🤢

You noticed that too. Like with the Purple Fish Jewel. If you look at it carefully, what did he actually do for her that wasn't tied to obtaining his own interest in being with her?

 Did you also notice how he used the people besides him as mouthpieces to verbalise his sacrifices, how difficult things were for him, and to test the water with her? 


 MountainPine:
They successfully make each other even more weaker and sicker. 🤕🤕

Co-dependency. Their sickness is a match for each other. 


 MountainPine:
"Now I really regret that my life is connected with a stupid and weak woman like you. I beg you, before you die of stupidity..." We're used to seeing these words solely as Xiang Liu's attempt to make her hate him, but just try to look at it with a fresh eye and a new perspective - it's all the harsh but honest truth about her!..

I haven't finished the drama, but was this also in the drama? He probably did it to sever their tie, but there was a kernel of truth in there. She was stupid and weak on certain matters. 

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HeadInTheClouds
 MountainPine:

I wish there was a certified psychologist among the fans who could create something like a personality and character map of Xiao Yao. Something like a database (which would still look like a labyrinth, haha). Because she is a very interesting person with all her chaos and contradictions. A very lively character. Almost like Xiang Liu. In contradiction, he is very "whole", orderly, reasonable, rational, and has rare high character traits. It would seem that in this case the character would look unreal. But he is the most lively character of all that I have seen.

The more time passes since the first reading, the more my impression changes. And the more times I read, the deeper I delve into this  forest of meanings. And forest is getting  darker... It's a kind of puzzle from which you can put together too many different pictures...

I'll attempt to tackle this once I have the time in the next fortnight.

But, how about you start things off? What was your initial impression? What has changed? What caused your change in thinking?

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blabla100

My only option is rather ordinary: that, in his soul, of course, he wanted to hear a confession, as every lover wants.

...

That's one of the interpretations. The other one is that it was the last chance that he was giving their relationship. How she responded determined what he would do. For me, their month-long stay in Qing Shui town following the marriage robbery was his last attempt to wait for her to make up her mind and decide which direction she wants to move towards. However, like always, she was passive, and he was forced to ask her those questions. Her lack of an answer to the final one was all the answer he needed.

I have a third interpretation to this scene, lol. Taking into account the events that happened prior to him asking the 4 questions - Bei congratulating XY on her engagement and asking her twice to go inside the house despite her obvious reluctance, XY's humiliation at the wedding, XL's confirmation that he received the crystal ball 2 months prior, XL encouraging XY since day 1 of their month spent în QS's Town to go outside, XL killing Bei and his reminder to XY that their relationship was nothing more than a deal, his insistence in closing that window while XY tried hard to open it, I find it hard to believe that what XL wanted, at that point în time, was a confession or that it was a last attempt from him to give a chance to their relationship.

 Honestly, I believe that what he wanted to hear was exactly the opposite.

XL knew what XY meant with the Crystal ball. The Crystal ball was sent as XY's last attempt. Yellow emperor already told her that XL rejected all their offers to change sides, so she sent him the Crystal ball as to tell him that she îs willing to give up everything if that's what it takes.
 XL knew about her sleepless nights, knew what XY wanted to hear when she told him the name of their bugs, knew why she waited for him for 7 days în front of the dragon bone prison, knew for whom he is being persuaded yet again to change sides and for sure knew the significance of the Crystal ball, so why did he ask the forth question?

For a confession? Makes little sense, since for one he already knew who's în XY's heart,  so what's the purpose to double check

 and second, these questions were asked while XY was under influence, so what difference would an admission make for XL, since it would have been a confession made while not being sober / conscious. A confession made while unconcious or against one's will  it's a far cry from taking commitment, so to believe that XL wanted to hear her say his name în order to give another chance to their relationship doesn't sound right to me. 

The way I view it, the last question was asked because he hoped that, after all the signals he sent her that he has no intention to be with her, she will firmly choose shiqi and that she had given up her hopes to be with him anymore. He hoped that her heart's desire would have been finally overpowered by her will and therefore to regain the smarts to make the right decision for herself. 

XY knew XL rejected  her pursuit, but she neither left or talked to him for the whole month, rather she kept waiting as she waited în those 7 days în front of the dragon bone prison. His reminder that their relationship was always just a deal was the last straw that broke the camel's back.  Her reluctance to answer his 4th question was precisely because of that, IMO. How can she say she wants to spent her life with XL, when XL rejected her and made it clear that their relationship is only a transaction?  She kept insisting in having that window open, while XL kept closing it. She opened her mouth to answer, but how can she admit of keep wanting someone that didn't chose her and clearly rejected her? That's too much for someone as reactive as XY, therefore her struggle and headache. 

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blabla100

Old Sang Tian er advice would have applied to her and Xiang Liu, but instead, she chose to rescue Jing

I don't believe XY thought at Jing or at anyone în particular when having the discussion with TianEr, it was actually XL who directed the topic to Jing, so IMO that shows what his intention when telling XY to go outside was since the beginning.
He wanted to determine her to go back as well as to let her see that that's the life she should pursue, growing old with grandchildren next to her instead of indulging herself into a doomed romance that has no future. 

She was never actually growing the seeds or putting any real effort into making her relationship to Jing work (lol, she didn't even mention to him that his fiancee tried to kill CX) and XL knew that, because he knew she was busy investing most of her time and hopes into him, instead of Jing. 

Sorry about the quotes, guys, I am posting from my phone. 

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blabla100

"Xiang Liu covered her with a blanket and Xiao Yao suddenly opened her eyes “Why?”

Xiang Liu stared at Xiao Yao and didn’t know exactly what she was asking why about. Was it why he forced her to become a runaway bride? Or was it why he used his powers to probe the true feelings inside her heart?

Xiao Yao gave up asking and closed her eyes to murmur “I’m so hurting……Xiang Liu, I hurt………”


Regarding which why XY was asking, I believe none of the two, but rather

Xiaoyao was silent for a while, and suddenly asked, "Xiangliu, why did you choose Gonggong? Is it just because he is your adoptive father? Xiaotian didn't know why he had the courage to ask this question,"

What she actually asked him wasn't "why do you have to be my brother's enemy", but rather "why can't you choose a different path then that of a general who's best ending is to die on the battlefield?"

 Her struggle when facing XL's 4th question, the problem she refused to think about, the "why" she kept asking XL about. Why can't I keep you, why can't you choose a path that will allow you to live? Why Gonggong and not me?

"You’ll forget what just happened and after a good night’s sleep it’ll all be fine!”

Xiao Yao fell asleep but there was a sardonic smile on her lips as if mocking “Even after a good sleep it won’t all be fine!”

Because it's not only his rejection that pains her, the fact that she's not his choice, but also because of what his choice is. A path doomed to end on the battlefield. 

Xiaoyao buried her head in her knees, silent. She felt a blockage in her heart, but she couldn't tell whether it was for Xiangliu or for herself. "

 What are you thinking about?"

  "As the daughter of Chiyou, the world is so big, but there is nowhere to go."

   Xiangliu lifted Xiaoyao's head: "If it really doesn't work, just set sail. The sky is high and the sea is vast. "

She told him that as the daughter of Chiyou, even though the world îs big, there is nowhere to go, but what she was thinking about was actually "home îs where your heart îs. With you gone, where's  my home? ". Her statement came right after XL explained her why he can't choose another path.

 She felt a blockage în her heart, wasn't sure if it was for XL or for herself, however when XL asked her what îs she thinking about, she tells him her real thoughts, the world being big, but having no place to feel at home, but using Chiyou as the excuse. Not because she was în denial, but because she respected XL's choice. 


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MountainPine
 HeadInTheClouds:
And she did lure Tu Shan Hou, so maybe she wasn't so naive after all. I don't know anymore :-)

I feel the same! All her phrases to Xiang Liu seem both naive and very double-meaning. I can't even imagine myself saying something like that to other men 🫣

 

 HeadInTheClouds:
Here, we call it " the artist of the burnt-out theater". 🤪

I googled, but couldn't find the meaning of this one. 
A burnt-out theater is not one that burned down, but one that went bankrupt due to the inept acting. That is, an actor in a burnt-out theater is a bad actor.🤪😄


 HeadInTheClouds:
She put up the barrier first, so she will need to show a lot more determination and certainty rather than waiting for him to reassure her. He's not Jing, and he isn't going to try to win her over that way. And he was right, since she won't even face her heart, even when under the influence of his power.  

I agree with this and I also want to add that his situation as an  general of doomed army in no way gave him the opportunity to be the first to declare his feelings. She should have taken that into account.  


 HeadInTheClouds:
Lol. I think you're more annoyed with Xiao Yao than I am. And I'm probably one of the most critical of Xiao Yao here. 
When I started reading the book for the second time, I set out to look at everything with a fresh eye and try to like Xiao Yao and her relationship with Jing. But everything only gets worse - I find more and more negative traits in her character.😬👌



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MountainPine
 HeadInTheClouds:
By this, I'm thinking you mean the drama captured the vague outline of the story, but didn't capture its essence?

Yes, and also the fact that some things are absolutely perfect (Xiang Liu), so they do not allow us to simply ignore the series. But the core is of course destroyed. And because of that, it turns into "a suitcase without a handle - it is difficult to carry and it is a pity to throw it away".  


 HeadInTheClouds:
I'm in the minority, but I have a problem with Yang Zi's acting, and I find that it contributed to the overall problem of the drama for me. The script is the major culprit with the way it downplayed and up-played the two balancing relationships. However, I don't think Yang Zi understood the character of Xiao Yao and how much her abandonment fear drove her choices. This further tilted the balance, resulting in the core of the story being warped. I find Xiao Yao in the novel to be more palatable and sympathetic compared to the one in the drama. I don't like drama Xiao Yao at all. I also much preferred the novel's Xiang Liu to the drama's Xiang Liu ;).
Everything you wrote is relevant. I just watch with a different mindset. I love when an actor does their own unexpected fresh version of a character I've read (for example, BBC's Sherlock). I understand and also noticed the differences between Xiao Yao and Xiang Liu in the book and in the TV series. But the general shortcomings of Yang Zi's acting here coincided with the shortcomings of Xiao Yao's character for me, so for me the puzzle worked out successfully. I can't get into Yang Zi's acting. I can't empathize with her. She's closed to my mind and my heart. And I can say the same about Xiao Yao's character. Her mind is closed to me. And I can't open my heart to understand her. So, in a bad way, but there's a perfect match, huh. 😬


 HeadInTheClouds:
it was the last chance that he was giving their relationship. How she responded determined what he would do. For me, their month-long stay in Qing Shui town following the marriage robbery was his last attempt to wait for her to make up her mind and decide which direction she wants to move towards. However, like always, she was passive, and he was forced to ask her those questions. Her lack of an answer to the final one was all the answer he needed. 
I love your interpretation and it adds another layer of vision to my mind, sad one, of course. I thought he had finally decided everything for himself by that moment, but now I don't know...


 HeadInTheClouds:
But why was he hiding his love?

There are probably many reasons I can name several, but I will only name one - is that his love for her was a true love, that kind of REALLY TRUE love, which happens very rarely even in a fictional world, and almost never in real life. He always thought about her happiness and never about his own. He probably wasn't sure how strong her love for him was. Probably because of that he decided to choose an easier, safer and more certain path for her. With Jing.🫠



 


 HeadInTheClouds:
Control here means you are able to control yourself and how you love, right?
Yes. And to remove yourself and your love from your loved one's life if it would be better for them that way. Jing  with all his shit and problems (pregnant fiancee and his status, and most important one - him knowing she loves Xiang Liu) was not capable of this - and this is the first and most important sign that his love was not true love, but obsession.

 HeadInTheClouds:
For the majority of the novel, Xiao Yao has been wavering back and forth - Jing represents the "safe choice" due to the confines of her fears, whereas Xiang Liu represents the growth and freedom from facing and working through her fears.  Xiang Liu worked hard to help her grow, but sometimes it takes realising what not changing is costing you for you to make the change. 
But since Xiang Liu is no longer in the world - why should she embark on the path of healing from her mental problems? What will she gain in the end even if she heals? In the process, she must to realize everything that Xiang Liu has done for her. And that everything she has in life,  ABSOLUTELY EVERYTHING - she has it thanks to him. To him, whose heart she shot an arrow through. Will she be able to bear both burdens - healing and realizing? It seems that no. It will be easier for her to remain in self-deception. And in the mist that Jing constantly immerses her mind in (how interesting, it is described several times during the story how he spreads mist around himself. This is not only a literal mist, but also a mist for the mind and soul).

And being in the mist is the only way for her to be at least somewhat happy. Many times before in this discussion it was written that Xiao Yao should live her life happily. That it is the only right and rational way and it makes Xiang Liu's sacrifice not in vain. All this is absolutely correct. But. Can it be just taken and done? What does "should" mean? It does not depend on our desire. It is the same as saying: " If you are depressed - just stop being depressed. If you want to forgive someone (but cannot) - just forgive". Haha🫠




 HeadInTheClouds:
I haven't finished the drama, but was this also in the drama?

Sadly, I don't remember, I am intended to continue rewatching the drama with my husband (he roots for Jing...arrrrrrrr!!!! and I am going to FIX that!😏)
But why haven't you finished the drama? Yes, it is total trainwreck,  but Xiang Liu's dying scene - one of the most beautifully played and filmed things I have ever seen.


 HeadInTheClouds:
I'll attempt to tackle this once I have the time in the next fortnight.

Wow!!!!🙏💖


 HeadInTheClouds:
But, how about you start things off? What was your initial impression? What has changed? What caused your change in thinking?
At first it seemed like just a traditional beautiful tragic tragedy. But the more I think about it - this whole book seems like some kind of continuous substitution of concepts. The whole moral of the story - over time it begins to seem to me that it is fake... The author wraps all this in a traditional beautiful shiny wrapper. But when you open the wrapper in search of a chocolate candy... What do we as readers get in the end? Two ill people lead each other. They do not go "into the sunset", they go into the unknown. They will live their lives not at their own expense, but at the expense of some very beautiful soul. And now dead one. They do not realize it and they do not care at all. And the author behaves like it's ok too, totally normal. Fake feelings will never become real. The heroine will never heal. And she does not want to. And does she actually need it at all?
To conclude, there should be one Russian joke here. But it's a bit disgusting🫣, so I didn't dare write it. I'll write something softer. All this reminds me of Andersen's fairy tale about the naked king. But in the finale, there is no boy who shouts the truth.


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