Kimsamsoom

And you think people are not being objective in their observations? Which parts exactly are not objective?

The reason it is a bad show, has only partly to do with the ship, most of the criticism has been about the bad moral messages, the romanticization of unhealthy obsessions, and the overall toxicity of the main lead. Also, a lot of people are complaining about the lack of business aspects for a show called Start Up.

Now add to to that the many many plot holes, and I feel most fans, HJP or otherwise have a legitimate beef.

Thanks for your kind words! But just saying, I know twitter, IG, reddit, youtube and etc... are giving HJP fans a bad name, but we here at MDL, try our best to be good fans.

And plus, we are a in a sinking, burning, ship, so if a few of us are panicking, maybe cut us some slack :)))

In fairness, your probably the nicest dodal fan here.

I've been on a poetic phase, so bear with me LOL. My little poem about Ep. 14.

The storm has come, three mountains high
The boys are back, and we wonder why?
Here to help, or sowing seeds of anarchy?
"Here for my parents", that's a load of malarkey

She trembles, she weeps, her buttons hang loose
She has lost her mind, her job's in a noose
She leans on him, yes our guy!, without knowing
It breaks him to see her pine for the man who loves sewing.

His long journey comes out in "I earned the right!"
But his journey to the dark was foiled by the light
As she concusses her head on thick glass pane
He can't help but smile, his love will never wane

She made her choice, for now, our guy has lost his chance
Let's just hope with this man, there is more than big hands
Don't despair, in the end our guy did not lose it all
He has gained a family, on Chuseok, he can call

Now that we see her journey come to an end
Let's recall this all started with him and his pen
The die has been cast, and all he can do is wait.
For her to see our guy, and in him, a soul mate

That is just typical Korean stan mentality. It's pretty scary to be popular in Korea.

NDS actually extended the lie, and when grandma wanted to reveal the truth, NDS didn't want to.

HJP has always cared about SDM, shown by his many selfless acts.

NDS has done plenty of selfish things, mostly at the expense of his SST coworkers.

She did communicate to him, but he would not listen, so she said hurtful words instead. It's an old TV plot device that is overused.

No, your wrong, SDM deserves to be alone, HJP and NDS can both do better.

Once again, you need to differentiate criticism from being a jerk. You saying that the comments are being too harsh, sounds like Yong San before the time skip. Post time skip Yong San apologize, and realized that harsh criticism is needed. Maybe we can learn from him. Plus ask yourself, do these harsh comments have bearings? or are they simply troll statement? I'm sure you can tell the differences.

The HJP fans here criticize the writer because she has made a gross misunderstanding of the modern needs of men and women. She is still stuck in the typical Kdrama lead, full of male toxicity. She has ignored the unhealthy type of relationship being portrayed in her show. The fact people are offended by this should make you happy, because it shows that we as Kdrama audiences have grown. We will no longer accept a male lead, just because he is a male lead. We will no longer be sheep to promotional posters. We as fans of KDrama have found our voice in Start Up, and we should be proud of this.

Based on the characterization of NDS vs HJP, people are not wrong. If the amount of forced romantic setting/scenes are not enough to convince people that NDS is supposed to be a main lead, there is something wrong with the writing, don't you think?

And it's no longer an international audience thing, even Knetz are on the HJP bandwagon, which speaks volumes about the writing of NDS characters.

I suggest you take the time to read the criticisms of NDS, if you think they are all ridiculous, then so be it, accept them as such. No need to brow beat HJP fan's of being disrespectful of art, when criticism of art, is part of the process. And artist without opposing views, is no artist at all.

Because using your example of the Dior bag, for the fifteen years you thought it was real, did it make you happy? If yes, then it doesn't matter that it was fake, it achieve it's purpose of making you happy.

And here is the thing, you say the letters should not matter since it's fake, and they should be forgotten. Then using that logic, SDM should not fall in love with NDS, because he, like the dior bag in your example, is also a fake. And yet she does, because like the letter, NDS being there achieved the same effect.

You can't say that SDM fell for NDS, even though he was a fake, and say the letters don't matter in the same statement. They are one and the same.

And, SDM falling in love with NDS is the same thing.

Criticizing art is not disrespect. That is an important distinction. An artist that cannot accept criticism will never grow as an artist.

In fact let me use the Ep. 14 as a moral of this story. As Yong San said, "we don't need empty compliment, we need honest criticism".

Mature Yong San understood that criticism's are important to make the final product better, we can all learn from him.

Ep. 14 is suppose to focus on the downfall of SDM. The show actually provided several clues showing her mental breakdown. From her broken button, to coffee being spilled on her, to her disheveled appearance, and her injury to her knee. All of this is meant to show her downfall.

Most people simply took this as her being a mess due to her love of NDS, but this isn't the case. This is actually the show subtly showing us how destructive the presence of NDS is to her life. NDS presence, affected her career, her confidence, and her pride. All those things steadily deteriorated when NDS is there. Ep. 14 is suppose to show how destructive the pairing of NDS and SDM will be and can be. And the sad part is, SDM doesn't see it. When NDS re-entered her life, SDM seemed to lose the will to succeed on her own. Her success is once again tied to NDS.

Now compare this to when it was HJP by her side, instead of NDS. We see her, more happy, put together better, had more confidence and etc...

I mean if we are looking at it from a realistic point of view. NDS getting shares of WIJ's company would cost WAAAAAYYY more than the money they receive from the acquisition of Noongil, seeing as WIJ's company is actually profitable, the inherent value of the private shares are astronomical.

But yeah, most likely they will show SST have 50% ownership at least. Which will be super frustrating for WIJ.

I really hope, that WIJ is still the boss, and still making all the bad ass moves, but i'm not holding my breath. WIJ scene's in EP. 14 were the best part of that episode.

Most likely all the progress will be through either SDM and NDS to show how amazing they are...

you should watch it, and judge for yourself.

You are thinking way too logical, you need to take a step back, or your just going to get more disappointed.

Most likely, instead of just hiring developers, somehow SST will get a large chunk of Injae company. Remember, the two traitor coders, only owned about 3-5% of the company shares. Just watch as SDM, SST Trio and Saha will own more than 50%.

It is pretty bad, because WIJ has built her little start up into a huge proper company, but she will lose a lot of the power she has, because NDS has to shine as the genius CTO. It's SDM all over again, but now it's WIJ's company they are messing with.

This writer just loves brow beating female characters to prop up weak male leads.

yup, i've heard great things about it.

There are some good ones in 2020, but overall, the bad ones outnumber the good ones.

It took SDM's mother 15 years to realize her mistake, regret her decisions, and come back.

Looks like it will take WIJ about 18 years to do so.

But in the end, everyone comes back. And on their own free will, which is the important point.

In ep. 15 preview, we see HJP give up on SDM, and push NDS to her. Essentially giving up on his love.

In the original Cyrano De Bergeac, Roxanne, only realizes her love for Cyrano at the very end of the play, but by that time it is too late.

In Steve Martin's Cyrano adaptation in the movie called Roxanne. Roxanne only realizes her love for Steve Martin's Character, after he stops trying, and essentially gives up.

I feel, the moment HJP stops trying with SDM, that is when she will realize things.

The writing in 2020 hasn't been great tbh.

A little poem for all our more "Colorful" commenters here :))))

I'm a little bit sad that you think i'm mad
For overreactions, you're over a tad
I write what I feel, I feel what I think
But your strong words, in fear I do shrink

I realize though, you are just a commenter
Whose head I inhabit, a very gracious renter
So as I ignore your cold winter leaves
Let me tell you of how many pucks I give.

Sorcery!

ok...

My fellow fans, to put it simply, we have been hoodwinked... For the past few weeks I have been in the trenches with you as we continuously wonder when this love triangle will end. And that my friends, is when the deception happened. I feel sheepish for not having realized this earlier. You see, what we are seeing in Start Up is not a Love Triangle, but rather a Straight Love Line. Let me further explain.

The symbolism of a mountain and the climb or journey takes place In the name of the company (Three Mountain Tech), and the denotation of HJP as a Sherpa. Sherpa are what we often call the guides during mountain climbing.

You see, in this vertical love line, imagine that HJP, SDM and NDS are climbing this rope towards the Summit of a mountain. At the start of the show, we see that HJP has already achieved the summit, the summit here represents success. In fact in his conversation with Grandma, he even list why he thinks he has reached the summit, good health, lots of money, nice condominium, and nice car. Yet Grandma saw through HJP’s bluff, because as we know it can be very lonely at the top. It’s a point the drama continually emphasizes, as we see scene after scene showing HJP being lonely in his success. When HJP started his climb, he had nobody to support him, nobody to praise him, nobody to climb with him, he did it by himself, and it has made him hard, weathered, and a little jaded. But during his climb, regardless of the scars he accumulated, he always made sure to protect the goodness of his heart.

From the beginning, we see that SDM is very much at the base of the mountain, but prior to meeting HJP, her source of determination, her dream so to speak, has been beating her sister. This is quite ironic, because this is no different than NDS making his dream SDM. And we know that making a person your dream, whether for the right or wrong reason is doomed to fail, as it sets self-imposed limitations. SDM dreams of someday reaching the summit, but as long as sees her beating her sister as her dream, she will never reach the summit. Because in life, there is never just one mountain, and if you make a person your dream, you limit yourself to only climbing as high as that person has, rarely exceeding that person, thus you will never reach your potential (Summit).

By the time SDM has started her climb, she has met NDS. And in him, she sees a pen pal, a friend, a boyfriend, someone who knew the hardships she has gone through, someone who will accompany her on her climb (even though it is all fake), and someone according to her, knew her better than anyone else (I will be coming back to this later). It didn’t matter that the history was fake, what was important to her was that she had someone supporting her on her climb.

In terms of climbing partners, NDS was both the best and worst man for the job, he kept telling SDM how great their progress was, how they are already near the summit, he instilled in her a lot of artificial confidence that help her move towards her goal of reaching the summit. But as we later find out, this whole time, they have been climbing; they were still at the base of the mountain, barely progressing. Because even though NDS had the necessarily tools to climb farther due to his god given talent, SDM did not. The truth of the matter is that NDS did not know what the right message was to motivate SDM, all he had were hopes and dreams that were easily popped by the harsh thorns of reality. And because NDS took it upon himself to carry his and her load, the couple did not progress past the base of the mountain. And so he filled her heads with hopes and dreams of how far up they had climbed, that by the time SDM woke up from her reverie, she realizes that she is still at the same place.

The whole time, that SDM and NDS are struggling, HJP was there watching from the top. He knew the path SDM had to take to reach the summit, and he wanted to tell her so desperately. But unfortunately, he was too far above, their lives too different now, that his voice would never reach her. The voice closest to her, NDS, is the one she needed to hear the least, and the one voice she needed to hear the most, is the furthest away from her.

I see some people are critical of how harsh HJP’s message to SST and SDM is, but let us remember what this man has gone through, the harshness of his journey. It is a very real probability that this kind of “honest criticism” is what helped him climb that mountain all those years ago to reach the summit, and as harsh as the words may be to hear, having the resilience to accept the harsh winter winds, is exactly the right mind-set needed to move past your limitations to reach the summit. Something that HJP knew from experience.

As the episodes progress, we start to see NDS and SDM move onto divergent paths towards their climb to the summit, with SDM following the markers left by HJP towards the climb to the top (his mentorship). NDS makes SDM climb much harder, by anchoring her and dragging her down with false images of hopes and dreams. The difference here between the men can be seen here. While NDS wants them to live happily at base camp, and in each other lives, at the same level, for all eternity, HJP actually wants to challenge SDM to surpass him. HJP actually smiles the few times that SDM surprises him with how far she can go; he realizes that SDM may have even more resiliency than he does, which means she may surpass him eventually.

Eventually, we see SDM lose her footing, and lose all her progress, as the man she thought was her climbing partner, her support, ended up being the one to push her off the mountain, and HJP, as fast as he could run down the mountain to catch her, was too far, and too late. He can only watch as SDM loses everything.

While NDS cried and despaired that the world was ending, and life was over. HJP saw it differently. As a veteran climber of several mountains, he knew that falling was just as important as climbing. Only when we fall in life, will we realize how far we have climbed, how much we already have, and how amazing we are, to have climbed so far. Just like SDM not making back-ups of Tarzan was just another important lesson that she had to learn if she wanted to learn to reach the summit on her own.

The thing is, we all have our own personal mountains to climb, and we cannot have people piggyback us over to climb the mountain. Because there will always come a time in our lives when we have no one to piggyback of, and we will not know how to climb the mountain. HJP knows this, he knows that SDM needs to learn all of this in her own.

The three year time skip was good for SDM. After falling from her high’s, she picked herself up, and for the first time, was accomplishing things on her own. The success of the company was dependent on her as the most important cog of the machine. She finally deserves her majority share. We saw as WIJ was happy to see her sister's personal growth.

And this is where HJP’s frustration came from, because when NDS comes back, she just regresses, she once again losses all her progress from her amazing climb. She was almost at the summit, and now she's wallowing at the base of the mountain again. HJP realizes this cannot keep happening. SDM will never finish her climb if NDS keeps bogging her down. So to HJP, at this moment in time, he need to stop trying to beat NDS, and instead help him be together with SDM, so that she can stop focusing on love, and focus on reaching the summit.

But I believe that HJP, the man who has been a second late every time, the man who believes in fortune telling Yong Sil, will one last time, place his fate in the hands of destiny. He will stop trying to walk by SDM's side. Instead, he is going back to the top of the summit, and wait for her, as he believes deep in his heart, that he is her future, and the more she climbs, the more she will realize this.

Right now, SDM eyes are clouded by her love for NDS, that she is unable to see who HJP has been to her for all these years. It is only when she and NDS has had the time to fully commit to a relationship will she be able to see more clearly. She needs to see for herself why NDS is the wrong guy for her. She needs to fall off the mountain, one more time.

This kind of development can happen off screen, and I am ok with this.

So as SDM spends this time to find herself, HJP will be patiently waiting. As HJP waits patiently on the top of the summit, SDM will someday climb there, and join him, and they can look down, and view all the hardships their relationship has gone through.

Someday may not be for a while, but that is ok with HJP, he has already waited for her for a majority of his life, what is another lifetime, to be with her for eternity?

Space Jam