Sub12

If this is the only reason you stopped watching, then you should continue. One of the main plot points of the drama is the ML recovering his memories, so things are slowly getting revealed.

Oh seems like I hit a little too close to home. Good. Thank you for this unproductive “debate” (even if it was more like emotional rambling on your part), but I’ll peace out, because it’s clear that you don’t argue in good faith, and you just can’t add anything new to the conversation, though that was evident from your first comment. Frankly it’s getting boring. Hope you’ll continue to be hateful, it suits you, personally it’s not a hill I would die on, but you do you.

I don’t think highly of myself at all. I’m just not arguing purely on emotion, but facts, like you do. Your opinions are based on your personal feelings, mine are rooted in facts, those are not the same at all. Facts will always have more merit over feelings. That’s the core of the issue here, with you and people like you. You think that facts are subjective, when in fact, fact are facts, whether you like it or not. This is the reason why fascism is on the rise in our current politic sphere. Until you realise, that facts are reality, and your feelings are just feelings, we can never see eye to eye. And that’s okay, because I would never want to see eye to eye with someone who defends transphobes. The only one who is narrow minded here, is you.

No, It's not exactly the same point as before, because you moved your ball post several times now, because you just can't contribute anything meaningful towards the conversation.

First you claimed I was hateful for pointing out the obvious transphobia, that the commenter showed. As I told you before it is a FACT, not an opinion, and you would know this, if you were educated on the topic. Then you claimed that I called you uneducated, which is simply not, true. I told you to get educated on the topic at hand. Then you claim that you have never expressed your opinion on this topic, yet you clearly defend transphobic actions, and by defending it and not being objective about it, you took a stance, whether you like it or not.

Nobody is suffering from "homophobic, nor transphobic attacks from LGBTQ people". It is insensitive towards the LGBTQ community to suggest that there's this "epidemic" of people who are attacking others, and deeming everyone "transphobes, or homophobes". When in fact the real people who are suffering are the LGBTQ people. Suggesting that it's the other way around is problematic, to say the least. I will not deny, that there are cases where people can be overly sensitive at times, but it is definitely not on the scale that you are trying to make it out to be, and they more often then not, are reactions to what the transphobic commenters say.

In order to have a discussion about something, you have to be atleast somewhat educated or knowledgeable about the topic. It is the basic principle of debates. For example you just can't expect to be in an academic sphere example full of doctors, without any qualifications or knowledge about their fields, or topic at hand, and expect those doctors to take your opinions "objectively", because it's not.

The last thing that I want to address, is, trans rights, are human rights. The existence of trans people, or people in general is NOT up for debate. We can disagree about economics, but never about human rights, and the existence of people, because they are not up for debate. Trying to debate that, just fuels very dangerous narratives (like in WW2 for example), and it is infact, extremely harmful. All you achieve with that is to fuel hate even further. This will be a hot take, but if the existence of humans are up for debate, don't you think this can be extended towards other areas... Like religion for example? It's definitely something worth thinking about.

Post reported. False reporting someone and claiming that they are being hateful, when in fact they are just simply pointing out the truth, falls under Incorrect information. Pointing out the obvious, is not hateful.

When a person advocates for the exclusion/discrimination of a minority group, in this case, the trans community, is in fact transphobic, it is not an opinion, it is a fact, by definition. Feel free to look up the definition of transphobia, educate yourself on the topic, you clearly are in need of it. Advocating for the underrepresentation of a minority group, falls under discrimination. Instead of blindly reporting someone for trying to stand up against hatred, you should educate yourself about the topic at hand. Unless you share similiar values with the person, which I can only assume be the case here.

Is it really a happy ending though? Depends for who, because I definitely don't see it as such for Naksu. If you think about it, she lost her own body and identity, she has to live her whole life living as someone else, she has to live in a lie. She lost her own powers, that she worked so hard to get back, and instead she got the watered down power of the Jin family, she is as good as a housewife, when she never wanted to be anything as such. On the other hand Jang-Uk, became one of the most powerful people in the show, and he got the girl. The writing couldn't be more misogynistic if it tried, and I find it disturbing that it is presented as a "happy ending".

And more people should tear up Boho. She's sort of living in this bubble where if something is "cute and fluffy" it's amazing in her eyes, and every valid criticism towards it is toxic. It's funny how she herself can't even defend her viewpoints often, because she starts backing out of a conversation the moment someone brings up a good point that she can't respond to, and also she's denying a lot of the things she says aswell. Anyways, you go guys, defend the manhwa and reject the drama!

Alchemy of Souls being at number 1 is DIABOLICAL guys.

"Lol .. also the actual author of the manhwa is getting paid for this adaptation .. nd they definitely know that now the screen writers are going to write the script a/c to how they want to portray it to the media. So it is possible only in full consent of the author." Is what you said, these are your own words not mine. You said that the portrayal of the drama and it's vision is only possibe with the "full consent of the author" , which is exactly the same thing as her being involved with the whole thing, let's not start lying now, now what you can't provide actual evidence of your claims.

"Nothing was left unsaid" is a WILD statement, considering the entire state of the drama and it's characters. But it's very clear now, based on your responses, that you are not engaging in an actual debate, because you are not prepared to stop, think and think through what other people say to you, you just think they are toxic because they don't agree with you. Gosh at this point I'm convinced that the BL fandom is not even toxic, the people who say they are the ones who are toxic. You are also not willing to engage in the conversation since you don't have anything better to say anymore that helps your case and you just resort to: "Bro... your paragraphs are too long..".

It's clear how you are perfectly fine with the breadcrumb quality BL's and you don't actually want it to change, you just say you do, because you are fine with everything as it is currently is. I hope one day you will realize how your ideologies are harmful towards the BL and the LGBTQ community, stop being stubborn and finally open up to the idea of progress and acceptance.

I mean you do, you just tiptoe around the terminology to make it look better. You are telling me to tolerate homophobia as a behaviour, and we as a society, are well beyond that despite some people still having conservative views.

Censorship is never the answer when it comes to easing a conservative society's mind into a more progressive mindset. We need to tell cohesive and authentic LGBTQ stories, that depicts several angles of the LGBTQ experience, not an altered piece of media that sacrifices it's authenticity to cater to a heteronormative society, because at that point, they could just watch a straight show or an american show. In your opinion, how many straight (and especially conservative) people went out of their way to watch this drama? Spoiler alert I don't think the answer would be in your favor. So how do you want to ease them into it, when they have no interest in it in the first place, and on top of that the whole thing is watered down, AND not releasing it on either cable or on a bigger streaming platform like Netflix, to actually deliver this show to the audience? Because a cable release was planned, but it was cancelled because guess what, it is a BL. Do you believe that the underground BL's that are shot in someone's else's basement actually help LGBTQ acceptance, and the BL community?

The last thing I want to ask here is, how do you know that author is involved in the production process? Sure she may get payment for the IP, but how much of an influence does she have in the production? You claim that she has a lot, so do you have a source to support your claim? Because in Korea, when it comes to adaptations, it is notorious that the authors never get involved in the production process of the adaptations, they are often given 0 creative control.

If everyone has the same mindset like you, things will never change.

Respecting cultures is fine, but we have to draw the line at a certain point, and we just can’t give them a slack because homophobia is “part of their culture”. You are actively contributing to their ideologies by trying to make excuses for them.

It’s not okay to make significant changes from the source material. Especially when you want to sell it as a BL, but then put the BL couple on the bench. It’s awful, it’s toxic, it’s baiting, and it’s harmful.

The actors are not children. They (and unfortunately their studios) decide which roles they want to take. Don’t worry the amount of money the get from a drama like this is something that we both will never see on our lifetime, even if the budget is low, this can uplift their future prospects as much as it can cause it harm so I promise you, they are GOOD. And if the actors are “uncomfortable” doing the roles that they are signed up for, they are unprofessional. They shouldn’t have signed up on it, AND they shouldn’t have made the show, if they are uncomfortable with depicting an LGBTQ couple. There are plenty of other great possibly better actors, and writers, and producer teams who would gladly take the role/show on. So no, WE are not grateful that we got this BL, they are not entitled to our gratitude, especially after the shit they pulled.

We are living in a time where inclusivity and change is prominent. Don’t be one of those people who still excuse this behaviour.

How do you know that Lee sang jun would mind a kissing scene?

Everyone is allowed to like what they want, because media is subjective. But just because you "view" the drama differently doesn't make the drama inherently better or worse, the fact of the matter is, this drama is heavily flawed, with a lot of problems, and people are right to complain.

As I was reading your comment, I felt that you were trying to paint the drama in a better light than it actually is, by jumping through it's issues, and instead tried to rely on metaphors (some of your examples are WILD reachings of a metaphor but I digress), to make it look "misunderstood", I hate to say this but this isn't really that deep, you are just making your own conclusion based on what you want to believe. There is nothing wrong with that, but to act condescending towards other people, and acting like you are a more intelligent than them just for this sole reason, is actually pretty toxic. On top of the fact that it doesn't make the drama any more better, because the whole material is flawed.

I sure hope you are not one of those people who complain about the BL fandom being toxic, because you also fit the description. I'm not saying that you have to hate this drama, but trying to glaze it, and using your own almost sort of a headcanon to justify some of the writing decisions, and on top of that acting condescending towards others is harmful behaviour, and you are deserved to be called out for it.

Right? And these are the same people who are perfectly okay with a straight high school couple kissing, and are shouting for more. It’s interesting how we only have this bias for an LGBTQ couple but not a straight couple, like it’s not appropriate for them to kiss or something because they are “not mature enough”. But the truth of the matter is in the drama the characters were like 19 (maybe 17 I don’t remember exactly), and the actor himself was 17, he probably reached 18 during the filming. It’s not unheard of that 17-19 year olds kiss, god knows they do worse. But somehow that is not appropriate for lgbtq people.

RIGHT? Like the bar is down in hell at this point.

At this point, the only reason I’m still tuning in, is to laugh at the awful writing decisions of this drama. I am at a point where I loudly laugh tat some of these decisions.

I find it so funny, how the drama really wants us to believe that there is a deep friendship between Heesu, and Chan young, when in fact, there is just really isn’t. Sure the drama wants us to believe that they are childhood best friends, and Heesu is his shadow, but the drama doesn’t give us anything that points towards that being actually true, so I just can’t believe that they are best friends. Chan Young has never done anything for Heesu at all, he always prioritised his needs over Heesu’s, which is actually very prominent even in today’s episode, when he expects Heesu to just let him live in his house. He never done anything that was selfless, and actually benefitted Heesu in some way. Yet he feels entitled to know about Heesu’s secret, even stiring things up in the middle of the hallway (which was a cheap trick from the writers but whatever). But here’s the thing, Heesu is really not that much better. The only reason why Heesu was the way he was to Chan Young, is because he had a crush on him, and he was sort of hyper fixated on him as a person. After that initial attraction disappeared, we don’t reslly saw them together all that much anymore (the forced cohabitation doesn’t count), because I firmly believe that Heesu’s attraction towards him was much stronger than their friendship. Sure Heesu is still a better person and a friend, but i think that if he does something for chan young at this point, it’s more of a kindness, rather than him being his best friend.

The good old miscommunication trope, I called it. I knew this was gonna happen to further push out the storyline, and it’s even worse than I thought. I can almost guarantee that we, as the audience will not be satisfied with the ending. I would also rather not comment that confession, cuz that was atrocious.

Which leaves me to my last point. Please, for the love of god, don’t rate this drama higher than it deserves. I’m not saying that we need to review bomb the whole thing. But however reads this, before you rate the drama, you to take into consideration many things like, story, storytelling, characters, pacing just to name a few. Don’t let your judgment be clouded by the actors looks please. Try to rate it as objectively as possible, and think about it, don’t go straight for the 8 out of 10 or god forbid 10 out of 10 rating. Because if you do, you harm not only the community but the industry aswell, because they will not strive to do better, if they think everything is all right. We would continue to get crappy adaptations like this, or just straight up BL’s with the personal biases of the writers.

Yeah, at this point it seems like people are really trying hard to make excuses for this drama specifically.

So, 17-18 year olds can't kiss anymore...?

Well said, couldn't have said it better myself. These people are exactly like that. The problem is, that this is not only elitist, but it is also a harmful behavior, towards the community, and the industry itself. People are not okay with the bare minimum, and they shouldn't settle for it.

You see, the answer is simple. It wouldn’t feel rushed for you, if they got together in ep9, IF say, the drama used its time wisely. We could’ve gotten to know Seong Won more, his family, is background, his hopes and dreams, his situation with his family, and most importantly why he likes Heesu, but instead he feels like he’s just a love interest for Heesu.

We could’ve also gotten more meaningful scenes between them, that would warrant them to get together initially.

You see the reason why it feels rushed for you, is because the lack of meaningful connection between the main couple, and that’s absolutely on the writers for focusing on the wrong things instead of expanding what actually matters.