Lesbians4KPOPBL

You are not the only one. I've suspected all along that nothing happened. Based on the diaries and next week's previews, I think that he not only wanted XS not to remember anything, but he also just wanted to film just enough to fulfill the requirements of his plan regarding XS's father (which I don't pretend to fully understand, and can't wait to see fully revealed).

I love this show! I think the fact that we have to think so much about it shows that it is a high-value BL.

Oh, dear. I guess this is going to be a general rant, jumping from point to point.

Two pet peeve observations:

1) Here we go again: yet another instance of media representation of using women's bodies to conceal men's gay feelings/identity/orientation. Poor Gill. She seems like a pretty cool person. I know this happens in real life (way too often!) because in many countries, parents and society-at-large seem so unwilling to accept gay men/sons, so often those men either try to convince themselves that they can "change" or their parents' expectations make them put on some kind of act. Unfortunately, it's the women such as Puifai in TharnType, and Tai in Club Friday The Series 9: Ruk Tong Laek that get it in the neck.
2) Here we go again: using makeup that is too light on an actor with a little darker skin (An Jun Peng). This actor is extremely handsome and this fact is enhanced, not diminished by his skin colour.

Anyway, moving along. I wouldn't be surprised if Yong Jie didn't actually have sex with Xing Si, but only wanted to make this recording as part of his plan.

Yong Jie is seeming less and less selfish. He actually pretended to act up and got into trouble with the parents in order for Xing Si to be able to leave home, because he thought it would make XS happier. That doesn't sound like someone who is willing to put his own happiness before XS's. He also didn't try to come between XS and "that person" that he loved. He just felt happy that XS was happy and sad for himself. Also, YJ's reason for comforting XS when he was quietly crying by himself was because he felt XS needed that.

One more thing I think needs mentioning: the SOCIAL taboo against "incest" is driven by the BIOLOGICAL risks of two closely related family members reproducing. Therefore, the original incest taboo assumes two things: 1) a heterosexual relationship/sexual encounter, and 2) a genetic relationship. These two stepbrothers are neither, so this taboo that doesn't really apply to them, ends up restricting their possibility of having a relationship. Dogma and ideology at work.

Moving along again. I read a comment that said that Li Cheng "watching Mu Ren masturbate all night" was along the lines of some sort of sexual harassment. I disagree. Li Cheng stayed in the room with Mu Ren in order to protect him. Just because MR was masturbating, LC didn't think that was a reason to leave his friend alone. I know this isn't the same situation, but there are heterosexual men, who actually heterosocially masturbate with their friends in a group, even though they aren't sexually attracted to those friends. I don't pretend to understand the practice, I simply know that it exists. Like LC said, he didn't think it would matter, because they're both guys. But, since this is the land of BL, having seen MR in that state, made LC start to develop (or at least acknowledge) a romantic/sexual interest in him.

Now, we can discuss LC's actions in the locker room and in the communal bath, and what those might mean, but I think him staying with his friend all night, making sure that he was safe, is not really part of that.

Finally, I think that one of the reasons that HIStory 4: Close to You is so great is because it's forcing viewers to question their deeply-held beliefs, assumptions and expectations, while being wildly entertaining at the same time. I look forward to Sundays now like nobody's business.

Rooting for both couples!

Wow, I'm glad you said that XS reading YJ's diary was your favourite scene. That's exactly how I felt about it.
Loved these latest two episodes. The only problem is that we have to wait another week for the next two!

Wow. I loved episodes 9 & 10!

Believe me, I realize that being 100% gay is a thing. However, according to research I've read (though I personally find some of the methods used to be flawed), it seems that het women are SO receptive to non-het sexual encounters and full-on relationships, that some researchers actually claim that they are without an orientation. Maybe that's one of the reasons why het women came up with BL in the first place, and are sometimes convinced that het men can successfully be shipped with one another. Maybe they imagined het men could be as receptive to relationships with other men as het women are to other women. For once, (het) women were assuming their experiences could be copied and pasted onto het men instead of it being the other way around.

Also, later-in-life-lesbians is actually a thing, but doesn't seem to occur in het men. It could be biological, or it could have some connection to the notion that masculinity in men is more strongly connected to their sexual orientation than femininity is in women. I mean, if a man is sexually or romantically involved with another man, societies tend to ascribe some sort of "unmanly" or even partially "girly" identity to him. I have seen this happen time and time again. However, if a woman is involved sexually or romantically with another woman, this fact alone will not make (Western) societies automatically consider her to be "manly". So, when a person's identity is on the line, this may greatly affect their behaviour, but to what extent remains to be seen.

Anyway, I'm looking forward to the day that non-100%-gay women's sexuality is studied seriously and in earnest, especially the phenomenon of later-in-life-lesbians.

I loved Cheat, too. I also saw the ending coming from a mile off. I remember asking on Twitter if that character was perhaps a cambion, partly because the nun was acting so weird.

I feel the same way about hyper-femininity in women. But, rather than being bored by it, I guess I would say I feel a slight disdain for it. The same for hyper-masculinity in men.

Unfortunately, "butchness" and "androgyny" are hard to find in lesbian storylines, well, in BOTH women . If one woman is "butch", the writers tend to pair her with some highly feminized woman to kind of make it appear somewhat more pseudo-hetero.

As far as "GL" is concerned, I think it exists. I think the films "Yes or No" and "Girls Love" were examples of that. In both, hetero girls fell in love with lesbians. Unfortunately, the hyper-feminized women always come off as annoying because, what woman in her right mind would say "no" to Vespa Miller or Tina Suppanad Jitaleela? So, the het women watching it always hate the het women on the screen who take ages to decide for the gorgeous lesbian, who the audience members would date in a heartbeat themselves.

@Tsuliwaensis I absolutely agree.

@Tsuliwaensis: I agree with some of the points you made about the differences between BL and gay dramas.

I think that one of the reasons that BLs appeal to women is that we have been thoroughly indoctrinated to believe in the idea of "true love". "True love" in the sense that it is a love that survives and thrives against all odds.

Romeo and Juliet used to be the standard, because opposing your parents in order to be with your beloved used to be a very difficult decision with serious consequences. What BL does, is it makes the characters go against not only social sexual norms, their family and possibly their peers, but also against their own sexual orientation. It's a love where two people love each other DESPITE their orientation, not because of it (as in hetero and gay storylines). I think that's what adds to its romantic appeal.

And, yes, in a world where hetero men are not supposed to show "too much" tenderness and affection towards each other and are just running after women all the time (who, I would argue they might be attracted to, but don't seem to like or respect very much), it is nice to see depictions of men who are actually able to love so deeply that they can REALLY see past gender.

I agree with your thought that depicting worlds where people fall in love with each other in a way perfectly aligned with the orientation can be very boring, because that's everywhere (though, I believe there still aren't NEARLY enough gay male storylines and even FEWER lesbian ones).

Since BL is basically fantasy (I have yet to have seen any studies which suggest that het men are anywhere as sexually/romantically flexible as het women) and often does not reflect the REAL struggles of gay men, I can imagine that a lot of gay men would reject/oppose the genre.

A concrete example of the difference between BL and gay storylines is that in BL a guy can fall in love with his best friend (with one or both being het) and they can end up together and live happily ever after, while the same situation in a gay film or drama would end up in heartache, because that's in line with reality. BL is not reality. That's why "Call Me By Your Name" is not BL. It's a realistic gay male film.

One final point: I also think that BL is a safe space for women because, for once, they are off the menu.

Yeah, honestly, in Saitankyori wa Mawari Kudokute, he was the best looking guy by far! Actually, he was the best looking guy of all of the guys in all three films, but he only got a part in the first one.

I was really hoping that somehow the character of Ryoma would reappear, but no such luck.

Unfortunately, the last two episodes were very disappointing to me. The pacing was slower than a snail's and the writing seemed to have no real purpose or direction.

I would love for them to do a third season, but only if all of the couples (they could have done a LOT more with Pei Shou Yi and Yu Zhen Xuan's storyline) are featured more equally and there is real drama, more obvious sexual attraction and romantic interest. Having couples who are newly in relationships get all buddy-buddy seems extremely unrealistic to me.

Hoping the writers get it together and take advantage of having such great talent to work with.

Also hoping that YU and Sam get to sing and Richard gets to play the violin on the OST.

Loved the second season! Sorry if this is not a popular opinion, but I thought the NEW Sek was great!

I think Xing Si cried because he was deeply moved by what Yong Jie said to him.

The part where Yong Jie tells Xing Si: "I am going to let you go home. Did you hear that? I said I'll let you come home. You don't need to be scared of anything." and then XS breaks down and cries, puts me in mind of HIStory 3: MODC when Sun Bo Xiang says to Lu Zhi Gang: "I want to take you home. He let you leave home. I will let you go home. Go back to your own home. I want to let your parents accept you and believe in our love." LZG was also deeply moved by SBX's words.

Further proof is when XS was talking to his friend Frank about his ideal future partner, he said that he wants someone who is "thick-skinned", who can accompany him when he confesses (comes out) to his dad; someone to stand by his side and face all his difficulties with him. Frank replies that this requirement is too difficult, but XS still hopes that there will be such a person. This is why I believe XS was moved to tears. I think he is finally beginning to realize and admit that YJ is that person.

After years of XS loving YJ (not as a brother, since he said it was "great" that YJ was in love with him and that he loved him back and XS even tried to kiss YJ on the lips), I think this will be the beginning of XS finally owning up to his feelings for YJ.

Thank you, thank you, thank you for the insightful comments.

I must admit, I was pretty shocked at how thin Mu Ren is, but that aside, I agree with everything you said about his aesthetic. His face sort of reminds me of a combination of Leo from VIXX and Lee Min Ho.

Great observation! I hadn't considered that.

That's really making me look forward to future episodes (as if I wasn't impatient enough already! Where can one go to order a month of Sundays?).

I was only panicking, thinking, "Why is Xing Si getting up on that narrow ledge beside Yong Jie?!" (Especially with THOSE dress shoes on. They looked pretty slippery to me! And XS's step onto the ledge looked a tad shaky. LOL

Just a little note on one aspect of Fu Yong Jie's character:

I think since one of the reasons Xing Si actually left home is because he's gay, but seems to want to come back home, Yong Jie isn't selfishly forcing him to come out, as has been suggested by some commenters.

In his conversation with Frank, XS said that he wants someone who will stand by his side when he comes out to his father. He hopes that there is someone like this. Frank says that it's a lot to expect from someone.

So, I think that just like YJ picked up XS's feelings for him, he's also picked up on the fact that XS wants to come out to his father, but wants someone who will support him while doing so.

Say what you will about YJ, but I think that his close observance of XS has made him aware of what's really going on with him and how XS actually feels about things (things he refuses to openly admit or discuss), instead of what he wants to portray to others as his thoughts and feelings, because he wants peace and harmony and doesn't like the thought of rocking the boat, especially within his family, and specifically when it comes to his relationship with his dad.

Remember in ep. 4, when YJ said to himself that he knows that Mu Ren likes Li Cheng because he has more experience when it comes to liking a guy? Whether viewers like him or not, I think that was a clue into how observant YJ is and how accurate some of his conclusions are.

The scene at the end of ep. 8 where Yongjie tells XingSi: "I am going to let you go home. Did you hear that? I said I'll let you come home. You don't need to be scared of anything." and then XS breaks down and cries, puts me in mind of HIStory 3: MODC when Sun Bo Xiang says to Lu Zhi Gang: "I want to take you home. He let you leave home. I will let you go home. Go back to your own home. I want to let your parents accept you and believe in our love."

Also, when XS was talking to his friend Frank about his ideal future partner, he said that he wants someone who is "thick-skinned", who can accompany him when he confesses (comes out) to his dad; someone to stand by his side and face all his difficulties with him. Frank replies that this requirement is too difficult, but XS still hopes that there will be such a person.

I guess YJ is going to be that person.

Now that Li Cheng isn't such a joke character, I really like the way that his storyline with Mu Ren is developing.

I cannot wait until next Sunday! This series has got me hooked!

I think XingSi felt deeply moved when Yongjie said: "I am going to let you go home. Did you hear that? I said I'll let you come home. You don't need to be scared of anything." This scene put me in mind of HIStory 3: MODC when Sun Bo Xiang says to Lu Zhi Gang: "I want to take you home. He let you leave home. I will let you go home. Go back to your own home. I want to let your parents accept you and believe in our love."

Also, when XS was talking to his friend Frank about his ideal future partner, he said that he wants someone who is "thick-skinned", who can accompany him when he confesses (comes out) to his dad; someone to stand by his side and face all his difficulties with him. Frank replies that this requirement is too difficult, but XS still hopes that there will be such a person.

I guess YJ is going to be that person.

The scene at the end of ep. 8 where Yongjie tells XingSi: "I am going to let you go home. Did you hear that? I said I'll let you come home. You don't need to be scared of anything." and then XS breaks down and cries, puts me in mind of HIStory 3: MODC when Sun Bo Xiang says to Lu Zhi Gang: "I want to take you home. He let you leave home. I will let you go home. Go back to your own home. I want to let your parents accept you and believe in our love."

Also, when XS was talking to his friend Frank about his ideal future partner, he said that he wants someone who is "thick-skinned", who can accompany him when he confesses (comes out) to his dad; someone to stand by his side and face all his difficulties with him. Frank replies that this requirement is too difficult, but XS still hopes that there will be such a person.

I guess YJ is going to be that person.

Now that Li Cheng isn't such a joke character, I really like the way that his storyline with Mu Ren is developing.

I cannot wait until next Sunday! This series has got me hooked!