Maggi64

It's interesting that on the one hand, the Korean entertainment industry has been praised throughout the world as being so good that it even rivals Hollywood. People call it the the "K-Wave." You know, the way they call India's movie industry "Bollywood." A Korean movie, "Parasite" even won an American Oscar a couple of years ago. But on the other hand, the Korean entertainment industry has also gotten tons of negative press in the West for how it treats its K-Pop idols.

Agencies pluck these kids from their families, sign them with contracts that essentially give them ownership over the kids, put them in dorms, overwork them, and then when the kids lose their looks, get too old, or just break down mentality, they dispose of them. Or the kids kill themselves. Over 30 K-Pop idols have killed themselves in the past decade alone. So it's this odd thing where the Korean entertainment industry is the best in the world outside of Hollywood, while at the same time, they have the worst problems. It's both things at the same time.

But I think that with all the negative press that the K-Pop industry has gotten for this, they should be doing better now on how they treat their idols. I mean, they know that world now looks at the Korean entertainment industry with so much respect and admiration that they want to keep it that way, right? I certainly admire the K-Wave and watch tons of Korean movies. In fact, I made a list here on MDL of my "Top Movies of All Asia" and 4 of them are Korean: "Night Flight" "Punch" "Parasite" and "The Handmaiden." I highly recommend each one of them!

Agreed. Mahiro complained about Souta saying he wanted to kiss him because he had these confused feelings, but wasn't sure about them yet. Well, what's wrong with that? Most people kiss for that reason when they date casually. In fact, that's what the Step 1 Dating Phase is all about. As you said, it doesn't mean you're messing with the person. Rather, you are attracted to them, but aren't sure yet that you love them. That's where Souta is at.

Ultimately the person who wrote this show has inadvertently made Mahiro come off as a prickly, precious jerk with a fear of intimacy.

The 1st plot twist was so secretly embedded into the story and unexpected that when it appeared I literally gasped out loud.

But when a 2nd plot twist appeared ten minutes later my response was more, oh, ok, because I'd already had a big surprise.

Then, when the freaking 3rd plot twist appeared five minutes later, trust me, I was no longer gasping with pleasant surprise. Instead, I was groaning at what a mistake it was for the screenwriter to have separated these plot twists over the course of the final fifteen minutes of the film. Because it felt anti-climatic to separate the big reveals as 3 separate scenes.

The screenwriter should've written one, self contained scene that let us know in one big reveal that the brother and the sister were in an incestuous relationship and that sister killed the family. Then it would've felt like one big -- kapow! -- reveal. You know, like Keyser Söze.

Thank you for saying that you don't take me for being an over sensitive person. I appreciate that.

As for you deleting a comment, there was a comment where you had said the following about your reasons for loving K-Pop:

"We are introduced to these idols in a very personal way. We get to see them grow, we're in their dorm, we watch them travel, sleep, eat, practice, shop."

You had said a lot more about your reasons, but I only copy/pasted that one sentence from your reply when I answered you because I wanted to discuss that particular aspect of the K-Pop industry. But when I went back to the thread, this comment was gone. Maybe it's just a glitch, but I cannot see it anymore. It's weird, right?

My post taught me that all people are sensitive about their taste in music. For instance, you got angry when I trashed K-Pop, but then someone else got angry when you trashed Taylor Swift. This proved how a thread like this could go on forever if people trash particular bands.

However, I must clarify that my own reply was different than others because I was not "sensitive" about it when you trashed my fave band Nirvana. Heck, I did not say anything at all to defend Nirvana after you trashed them and just let it go. I just figured, hey, we have different tastes.

You see, my goal in my original post was to get a specific explanation as to why people liked K-Pop (which is all electric synthesizers), over a band like Nirvana (which is all human beings playing real instruments). In other words, I did not get "sensitive" about you trashing my fave band. I replied by asking you for a genuine explanation about why you liked K-Pop. You gave one and I appreciated that (even though it appears you deleted it afterward).

At any rate, I learned my lesson and won't be trashing any bands/singers here again -- even if they do appear on a show to blatantly and crassly advertise their music.

Man oh man, I've noticed the sensitivity! I mean, I apologized for offending anyone by that post a day ago and yet I'm still getting flack for it. I was also very polite when I asked a girl to describe why she liked K-pop. She replied that she liked it because the industry allowed her to follow the idols around shopping, cooking, training, hanging out at their dorms, etc., which Western celebs do not allow. Western celebs have strict privacy policies.

I replied to her (which you can see above if interested). I assume she was embarrassed by what my reply suggested about the whole sick K-pop industry with its massive suicide rate, because she deleted her comment. I would've preferred a polite discussion about this topic, but I find the people here don't do that. They seem to only be comfortable when engaged in 100% agreement.

Oh yea, the sexual tension between these two is fire! I hope they capitalize on it by giving us a proper open mouthed kiss. I've seen open mouthed kisses in BL's where I did not give a crap because the leads had no chemistry nor story to begin with. So it's not about the kiss alone. It's about the leads having some fire beforehand. That's when it's hot to see them finally act on the fire by kissing.

Simply put and spot on. Thank you.

Please read my reply to @ImHereForTheBL right below my rant where I had given an apology for offending her. I don't want to repeat the whole thing here, but I trust that if you read the apology you will be satisfied with my position :)

What a terrific comment. I agree with all of it, especially with how poor editing is a massive problem. Many people are complaining about the story and characters, not realizing that what's truly putting them off is how the editing is so damned choppy that they have not been allowed to see the characters in a better light.

Consider the film editor's misguided decision to chop up the confession scene. He gave us bits of it at the end of ep 4, and then gave more bits in ep 5 that were out of sequence. The effect was jarring, and it would've been better to let that scene unfold all at once with continuity.

Especially because the bits the editor cut out from ep 4 were all things that Yoo Jae said that made his position reasonable. And without hearing those things in ep 4, we went away thinking he sounded like a dick. It was only when we got to ep 5, where the film editor spliced parts of the convo back in, that we realized his feelings were understandable.

At any rate, good comment. I look forward to seeing it as a review.

lol, I still like the word succumbing. I like the sound of the soft "s" and the gentle sound whenever the consonants "mb" are joined in a word. For instance, the "mb" consonant combo also has a nice sound in the word "lamb."

Then according to the theory of Deconstructionism, which breaks down a word's meaning (ie, deconstructs it), according to the terms I mentioned above, we conceived the word differently based on ethnicity. That would not so much mean you are, say Asian, and I am Irish, as that our social circles and areas we live in contextualize the word differently.

Hummm.... As an English Professor whose profession is all about language and literature, I find it fascinating how different individuals can perceive certain words so differently -- as you and I just did. It shows how when we communicate with each other we assume the other person is conceiving the exact same meaning that we intended but, in fact, is not.

There is actually a whole theory in my field called "Deconstructionism" which is the theory of how words are conceived differently by people based on race, gender, orientation, class, ethnicity, and age. Right now, I just witnessed how a word was conceived differently based on age, because this whole thing with contextualizing words based on "consent" did not exist in my generation, but is a very big thing in your generation. At any rate, I find this fascinating. :)

Really? I have always perceived the word succumb differently. I see it as something that happens when a person slowly bends over during a gradual process. I certainly used the word in that context. And it's what happened when this gay guy I know was pursing a hetero guy. They hung out for a very long time while the gay guy was essentially courting the straight guy. Eventually, the straight guy kind of crossed an invisible line and began to enjoy being courted. This "crossing of the invisible line" was the point where he "succumbed."

See? That's the context within which I had used the word. If you look up the dictionary definition it can mean one had finally yielded to either a "negative force" or to "temptation." I was using it in the 2nd, more positive context, ie, temptation.

Ugh, I freaking hate the "I'm only gay for you" trope. It especially does not work when both guys say it. However, I find that it does work when at least one of the guys is truly gay from the get-go, and his pursuit of the erstwhile straight guy succeeds (eg, in this show Han Joon is truly gay from the get-go). You see, at least one guy must be gay for that pursuit to even happen to begin with. Because, I'm sorry, if both were straight, then who's gonna do the pursuing?

It would never even occur to 2 straight dudes to suddenly sexually pursue each other. This never happens in reality and exists only in BL Fantasy Land. However, I do know cases in real life where a gay guy pursued an erstwhile straight guy, and got the straight guy to succumb.

No question that it lacked the sense of what you call "desperate passion." But remember, if we got that it would mean that the boys were finally together and Jae Yoo no longer had a journey to take toward recognizing his sexual attraction (right now, he's only recognizing his emotional attraction). In other words, if we got that the story would be over, whereas there are still 2 more eps to go. I imagine that those 2 eps will portray Jae Yoo's journey and then, at the end, we'll get a portrayal of that "desperate passion."

At least I hope so! lol.

I freaking love that you used the pix from Double Mints as your avatar! That is among my Top 10 BL's. I wrote a review of it of it as well, where I said the following, among other things:

"This is a film that manages to be erotic, perverse, stylish, violent and romantic all at once. Those are pretty hard qualities to round up in one film, but the director, Eiji UchidaI, somehow did it seamlessly."

Now, I don't agree with you about the neck touch from Star Struck, cuz I thought it evoked intimacy when You Jae touched Han Joon's neck, because he touched it so tenderly. In fact, it was the only thing in that scene that was shot in close up and evoked tenderness cuz the camera was too far for us to have any idea if he gave Han Joon a tender kiss or not.

At any rate, I freaking love Double Mints, so rock on!

Frankly, I would not be friends with someone like Jae Yoo. Because you're right that he's a bit of a douche. But I got the sense that Han Joon knows how to handle Jae Woo's aggressive, bitchy side, and that this is partly why Jae Woo needs Han Joon so much.

That's a good point about the difference in how idols' personal lives are revealed to fans in Asia while celebs in the West are kept tightly wrapped behind closed doors. We only see a celeb here on a talk show, or magazine interview, and in both cases they reveal little to nothing about their personal lives and only talk about their work. Reality shows are an exception, but those only star D-list celebs, not A-listers.

Now, I can see how it's appealing to get the inside scoop on the personal lives of Asian idols, and how this would make a fan feel close to the idol, but I prefer how the Western celebs do it. I find it healthier -- not for the fans, but for the celebs.

For instance, you said that you enjoy K-pop because:
"We are introduced to these idols in a very personal way. We get to see them grow, we're in their dorm, we watch them travel, sleep, eat, practice, shop."

Well, there is no way on God's green planet that those idols are enjoying this. Rather, they are forced to expose themselves like this by management. Moreover, the result of fans seeing them in such a personal light is why so many netizans feel close enough to have a right to attack and devour the idol if they make even the tiniest misstep.

I'm sure this is not the case with you, as you appear to be highly reasonable, but it is the case with many Asian idol fans, and it's a definite problem. To wit: the high number of K-pop idol suicides that I referenced in my comment to @jpny01.

Thank you for such a sage and objective reply. I listened to that song 3 times before posting my comment just so I would not overstate anything. And each time it was clear to me that there were no living people playing individual instruments such as a guitar, horn, piano, or drum. It was pure computer synthesizer with a cute boy singing in a weak voice.

Also, thank you for referencing the age of these boys, and how their management doesn't care about the prospects of non-musicians sustaining a career as musicians once their boyish good looks fade. Management regards these poor kids as easily disposable. They are kept in dorms, worked like dogs, and then disposed of. It's why so goddamned many K-idols kill themselves. The Guardian did a piece on how over 30 K-idols killed themselves in this decade alone.

Now, some of these idols seem to know how disposable they are as "musicians" and this is why they struggle to break into acting, where one can have career longevity even after their looks fade -- provided they have at least a modicum of talent. The kid playing Kiyoi in "My Beautiful Man," Yagi Yusei, got good reviews for the BL, and subsequently got a role in one of those "Crow" movies. I'm not a fan of the "Crow" franchise, but let's face it, some of those installments were helmed by famous directors such as Miike Takashi, and launched the careers of young actors such as Ayano Go, who was in Crows Zero back in 2009. So Yagi Yusei's agent was wise to put him in this movie -- both to get him exposure, and to distance him from his boy band image (eg, the Crows movies are about violent gangs).

But the best example I know of a K-pop idol moving into film is Yim Si Wan. He's starred in about 25 different films/dramas, some of which are terrific. I loved him in the movie "The Merciless" and the drama, "Strangers from Hell." He's currently 34 and his acting career is so solid that there's no question he'll continue to act decades onward. Alas, only some aging K-idols are success stories, while far too many end up suicides.