phunny4ocks

Possibly? Honestly tho, just have them stop in front of a subway, I don't need to see them eating the food. At this point, I'm more likely to avoid subway than actually eat there. Same with Papa Johns lol

Not sure where they got auditory hallucination from, so far there's none.

She's really not a weak character nor a cry baby. She's overly empathetic and sympathetic, but that's not a bad thing for a doctor. I would say she's a strong character who's constantly evolving

I believe she meant that he needed a ventilator to breathe for him, not that he was brain dead.

Just because someone is "alive" doesn't mean they are living. You can keep a person alive by administering meds for blood pressure and heart rate, but if that person is brain dead or a in a persistent comatose state, are they really living?

the product placement irritated me so much, i ended up forwarding thru most of the scene lol

I would imagine it's a bit difficult getting decent docs in a prison. Especially with John torturing them lol

Doctors are cocky af everywhere. The key difference between a shitty doc and a good doc is their ability to listen. When another professional, such as a nurse or respiratory therapist, give an opinion on a patient, those that listen and value their words are appreciated more than those who don't. Still cocky af, but that's the doc I'd respect. Lol yeah, I saw where you're from. Not a clue how the healthcare system works there, but I'm imagining something similar to the UK/Canada/US system?

2 weeks is a very long time to see a loved one suffer. That sucks!

I know where you're coming from for the selfish/self-centered bit. I've seen families being told that there's literally nothing else we can do for the patient, as in 0% chance of recovery, but they continue insisting that their loved one will be fine if we continue treatment for a little longer or that god will save them. The family isn't thinking about what their loved one would want, rather what they want. This case, though, is slightly different because the sister was told there's a slim chance of recovery. If people have a hard time letting go with no chance of recovery, I can't imagine how difficult it must be with a slim chance.

Agreed! The final decision is the mother's.

I don't know if he actually preformed procedures in prison, although I doubt it as the prison would be held liable for his actions.

Some countries don't have Good Samaritan Laws. I tried doing some research into Japan's Good Samaritan Law, and it seems to be a double edged sword. On one hand, the Law protects bystanders who provide emergency assistance, with some provisions, one of which states that the care rendered must not be done in a reckless or grossly negligent manner. On the other hand, the burden of proof lays on the rescuer and the charges filed are criminal not civil.

That being said, he could have intubated the patient and claimed Good Samaritan, except there was an actual doctor on scene. So I'm not sure if that defense would even work.

Oh wow! Intubation is a basic doctor skill, why would they not be taught that? What country are you from? I would think that you'd be taught the technique in med school, although you may not actually preform it till residency.

That's pretty cool that you learned how to do it. I know older nurses who say that they could intubate a patient with the amount of times they've seen it done. I don't think any of them would actually preform the procedure, though, as it's not in the nursing scope of practice.

Lol, I took the psycho bit to mean his extreme stance on euthanasia. But you're right, the stalking definitely makes him all sorts of crazy.

I had to take a deep breath and reflect on whether I wanted to continue this series after episode 1 because:
A) the FL breaks into a locked drawer and uses the attending's password to change the hip MRI to a brain MRI. That's a criminal offense. She put her life and her license on the line.
B) the doctors were shown to be too prideful to preform adequate testing in order to correctly diagnose a patient. I'm not sure how Japan's healthcare system works, but in the US, the possibility of a MRI and/or other further testing would have been discussed during the case presentation rather than blatantly saying "it's a hip issue". Also, other than the FL, the doctors never spoke to the patient. And, even she did a lackluster job in the beginning. That's not how an interview is conducted.

That's interesting, I didn't know that Western Australia introduced such legislation.

I read a couple of articles, but was unable to find more details into a couple of questions that arose, perhaps you would be able to answer them/point me in the right direction:
- How would verbal requests work? Is it just a note a provider would make in the chart, "patient requested voluntary euthanasia"? Or is there more to it.
- Not sure how the healthcare system works there, so how does one go about finding doctors to preform independent assessments? If this was law in the US, I would go through my insurance provider and find the doctors that cover me and make appointments.
- What kind of doctors are we talking about? Should they be specialists or would primary care doctors also work?

Agreed, the testing of boundaries is interesting indeed, however I'm concerned the medical inaccuracies may not lead to an effective ending. The show allowed him to get away with intubating a DNR patient. That's a huge deal. He should have been fired and his license suspended/revoked, unless of course he obtained written consent from his wife at the time....which he didn't.

For some reason I remember a lack of intubation kit and him implying the patient would die in the time it took to get one. I don't remember her bagging him either. You're right, intubation is taught at the very beginning and the patient may have been a difficult intubation, but it should have been step 1.

She preformed a Cricothyroidotomy, which I've never seen either. Apparently it's fallen out of use due to the risk of harm > benefits. It's a last resort when other methods of intubation have failed and requires a a very high level of skill. A 2nd year resident should, under no circumstances, be attempting to preform one.

Theoretically, it's possible that John would be covered under the Good Samaritan Law (not sure it's a thing in Korea though), but he's still opening up himself to the possibility of a whole host of problems, including criminal charges and a civil lawsuit. No matter how altruistic your reasons, I don't believe a normal person would endanger themselves in that respect.

Lol, did you really stop watching? I don't blame you, I'm trying my best to ignore the medical inaccuracies since they weren't as bad as Grey's Anatomy, but it's hard. Mainly watching it to see how the relationship between the leads unfolds and the psychological dynamic between the family related to withdrawing care.

I agree, the ability to have a discussion about a topic while respecting different opinions is wonderful!

I'm sorry about the painful decision process you, your friend, and your husband recently went through. As a health care provider, I've seen how difficult it is to make such decisions and the toll it takes on family members.

I went back and watched the scene you're talking about. Per viki's subs she says "I want dad alive, even though he's not the same as before. Even though he's lying here, I want him to stay with us. He's still so warm, doesn't this mean anything? I can feel him and touch him". She then proceeds to tell her sister you're saying this so you won't feel guilty if he wakes up and isn't the man you knew.
The father's been in this state for a little more than a year, if I'm not mistaken.

I understand where you're coming from - he's been in this vegetative state for so long and the sister just wants him present irregardless of the chances of recovery.

What I don't think you're taking into consideration is the sister's grief. Grief is dynamic, it doesn't follow a straight line; there's many stages: denial, anger, bargaining, depression and acceptance - and one can jump from one to another many times before finally reaching acceptance.

However, in order to reach acceptance and think rationally, she has to deal with her grief. She has to face the possibility of letting her father go and she's just not able to. This entire time, the mother had the same mindset as her. They both were hoping for a miracle and stuck to the belief that one day the father would wake up. Both were living in this denial/delusional state and they could have happily resided there until the FL returned and changed the status quo.
Suddenly, her sister comes back and her mother is changing her mind. She stopped compressions because the FL said so! Imagine how she feels: the anger at the FL, the anger at the mother, the utter surprise that the mother would actually consider withdrawing care, and most importantly, the utter helplessness she felt in that situation.

She's not able to cope with what she perceives as her mother's sudden turnabout/betrayal + the FL's, who she blames for her father's condition, suddenly return. She's overwhelmed. So she uses negative coping mechanism/ defense mechanisms - lashing out and regression.
Time doesn't play a role because she hasn't had to deal with any of this before - now she does. And she's unable to. So her immediate coping method is to lash out and revert to a younger self. Her actions of name calling, slapping, rudeness, insulting, etc, are not those of a 4th year resident, it's as if she's reverted back to her childhood self.

John, I think, understands that she's grieving/in denial/angry/emotionally and psychologically fragile and her need to blame someone. He already told the FL to expect such reactions. The other residents were surprised by her sudden outburst and its understandable that they didn't know how to deal with the situation. They saw that John was calm and followed his example. Had any of them intervened, the tension would have escalated- the sister may have thought that everyone was ganging up on her, thus leading to more anger. John handled that situation perfectly.

I completely agree with you that she shouldn't have judged John based on her fears, but the state she's in, she doesn't understand that she's projecting her fear. In her mind, the obvious comfort the FL and John share must mean that he's the one leading the FL astray, especially since he's mercy killed someone before. So it's all his fault. If he hadn't put these thoughts in to FL's head, FL would have never dared to talk about withdrawing care.

Edit: Although, anymore outbursts from her and not even I would be able to effectively defend her. I could understand her psyche up til now. However, as a professional, she needs to learn how to differentiate between her work and personal life. Her outburst at John, I can say was trauma based, and occurred outside of work, but he's still her attending. As a 3rd/4th year resident, she does not have the experience necessary to judge his professional actions. If she's that unhappy working with him because of personal reasons, then she needs to change her speciality.

Euthanasia is a complex topic encompassing a broad spectrum of issues. It's not as cut and dry as you perceive it to be by quoting the hippocratic oath.

Let's consider the scenario in Doctor John, the patient has a terminal illness and is in constant unbearable pain. High doses of pain meds would be given to this patient. A side effect of such a high dose would be sedation and a cloudy mind (in medical terminology: decreased mental status) aka decreased mental capacity. As such, how can a doctor conclusively state that the patient was clear headed and able to make appropriate conscious decisions when the patient asked him for a mercy killing? On the flip side, the patient could develop a tolerance to the pain meds and was appropriate, how can a doctor then conclusively state that a mercy killing would be the best option vs other pain relief drugs? If the doctor does decide that mercy killing may be this patient's best option, should he be allowed to make decision alone? If not, who should be making the decision with him? Let's say a panel of doctors is making that decision, who would be on that panel? what qualifications would they need to have?

See the dilemma? The questions I've posed are just the tip of the iceberg.

I had to stop watching this show after the DNR intubation scene. It was just so very wrong. In the real world (or at least the US), a patient's wishes are priority. If a patient is DNR, one does not intubate them merely because they have a hunch or because the patient's not terminally ill. It doesn't work that way, the patient's decision is respected. Had this been the real world, the ML's license would have revoked. I laughed my way through the other medical inaccuracies but that scene went beyond what I could tolerate.

However, I recently started watching again, mainly because Ji Sung is a very talented actor. His ability to breathe life into complex characters awes me. I also like Lee Se Young's character; she'a a baby doctor so more likely to kill a patient due to her inexperience, but she's not stupid nor a crybaby (as the tags say). I can't wait to see how their relationship develops

The interactions between the characters feels very real-world. Mercy killing is a complex topic and I think it's been presented well in the show, from the prosecutor with the extreme con position, the ML with his pro position, and the other characters who aren't sure where they stand or how far they lean to one side vs another.
The FL telling the mother to stop compressions, thereby initiating the idea of withdrawing care (or death by dignity per the subtitles) was well done. I've witnessed how difficult and painful it is for a family to consider withdrawing care on their loved one. The wide range of emotions, from the FL acceptance to the mother slowly coming to realize this may be the end of the road to the sister's anger and denial was well depicted. This is not an easy conversation to have.

He couldn't have preformed the intubation since he didn't have an active medical license. You're absolutely right in saying they should have tried to intubate first, the patient was not going to die if they waited a few minutes for someone to grab the intubation kit and if he did, they could have started compressions. Which also begs the question, why wasn't there an intubation kit in her medical emergency bag

Same. I find myself laughing at the inaccuracies

Yassssss. Someone didn't do their research lol

Agreed! So so so many things that are just plain wrong.

Agreed! In the real world:
-one does not intubate a DNR patient unless they want their license revoked, -one does not ask a lethargic patient who may or may not have MS whether they want to try a drug that may or may not cure them
-the drug given to the MS patient will not work in 30 seconds and the patient would definitely not have sat up
-one does not interrupt the OR in order to preform a test
- a patient's heart doesn't randomly start beating again after a) what I'm assuming was a long time of compressions and b) restarting compressions after the mother stopped

oh and most importantly, an anesthesiologist does not diagnose patients. Their job is to intubate using appropriate paralytics/sedation and sedate and monitor patients in the OR.