Editorials 
AH :
liddi:
It is amazing how I still find myself seeing echoes of Xiang Liu or Xiao Yao in different dramas. Has anyone watched 雀骨 Key to the Phoenix Heart, which has unexpectedly ranked as one of my favourites for many reasons. Xiao Wuyi reminds me a lot of Xiang Liu in terms of how he always put himself front and center in any battle, fiercely protecting everything and everyone he loves - his provision for Xie Jiayu, knowing that he goes to certain death. Even the lines that were used to describe him echoed Xiang Liu so much - giving his all for everyone else and leaving nothing for himself, wanting her to live well after his death.
It was on my radar, but I hadn't decided whether to watch it or not. I'll have to add it to my PTW list ^^
:It was on my radar, but I hadn't decided whether to watch it or not. I'll have to add it to my PTW list ^^
Do let me know how you find it if you do watch!
I enjoyed it :)
I do quite like a loyal, self-sacrificing male lead with strong convictions.
Kokuto:
Are there really that many changes between the two versions? Besides the names, of course. I'll have to keep an eye open for any changes for XL's lines between the drama and the book. I've noticed already there were changes for YaoJing -- small, but some significant.
So far, apart from the very obvious omissions in terms of the backstories tied particularly to the name changes (Black Emperor, Eminent Emperor, White Emperor etc), a lot of other changes has to do with typos, phrasing or change in use of words in roughly the same text. There are some paragraphs that are rewritten, but I have yet to see any major changes for Xiang Liu. Tong Hua did amend the years that Jing went missing (10 years, not 9, tortured for 4 years instead of 3) as well the number of maidservants he had (3, not 2, the 3rd being married off to Hou).
Love that passage! You know how much XL still lives with Tong Hua, given the nods to him in Filter. I'm wondering if she'll sneak in a reference or two in Against the Current? Though that is based off a book.
Yes. Filter is a reflection of just how much Xiang Liu means to her. Against the Current having Xiang Liu references? It would be wonderful if she did. To this day, I still wish she would revisit 千方相 and give us more of Xiang Liu there. Apparently there are more excerpts from that novel out there, but to date, I have not been able to find them. Gah!
People are already making comparisons between XL and Tan Jian Ci's newest role, the general Xie Qi Shan. It's going to be a long impatient wait for that drama to air.
I am definitely looking forward to it when it airs. Is it supposed to be released end of this year? The BTSes indicate that it would be an intense drama. I have confidence in TJC's performance, so my only hope is that the script itself is good. Wonder whether Winner is King will ever see the light of day, perhaps in another country? I am anticipating his latest movie Empty Gun too, though it has not premiered over here yet.
THANK YOU! I had copied the link to the invaluable chart you provided, but of course, it doesn't work now.
You're welcome!
I enjoyed it :)
I do quite like a loyal, self-sacrificing male lead with strong convictions.
Am so glad you enjoyed it! I love that it is tight-paced with no unnecessary scenes or over-reliance on CGI, and well-written, believable characters. How the romantic buildup is chaste but so well delivered with beautifully nuanced performances that it moves me far more than passionate ones. That the women do not serve as a tool, but are strong and independent in their own way, with their own aspirations and dreams. And how every character, including the villains has their own purpose and reasons, evoking empathy while frustrated at their choices. All the more amazing, considering it is an original script rather than an adaptation of a novel.
And yes. Xiao Wuyi is an incredible character just as is Xie Jiayu. Their relationship and their approach to the demands on their relationship is one of the healthiest I have seen in a long long time. And I cannot help but wonder how things might have been different if Xiao Yao were more courageous like Xie Jiayu when her man was determined to be a noble idiot. But then again, Xiao Yao is emotionally damaged, and it had already taken all of her courage to send that crystal globe, only to be coldly rejected and publicly humiliated. And unlike Jiayu, Xiao Yao never heard Xiang Liu unequivocally express his love for her even if she should have realised the moment she learnt the nature of the Lovers gu.
I haven't watched that. I've heard mixed reviews, but your recommendation will put it on my long list of TBW. Even Avenue X had nice things to say about it, but she liked the older actors in it, too.
Do let us know how you find it if you do watch! Incidentally, Sheng Yi Lun plays an emperor here, albeit a sickly one, after his stint as A Lifetime Love's Shao Hao equivalent.
How the romantic buildup is chaste but so well delivered with beautifully nuanced performances that it moves me far more than passionate ones.
To be honest, I would've preferred having an older female lead actress (not someone who was 17) opposite a male lead actor who was 28. I'm glad the actors' ages were taken into consideration and they didn't include certain scenes or dynamics that would not be appropriate in the circumstances and I can still enjoy a drama that doesn't include those things (e.g., the Princess Weiyoung), but it's usually in spite of their absence rather than because of them.
I also found myself doing some mental gymnastics because of her age that were a little distracting (like thinking that the actress was 17 but her character ages over the course of the drama so I can think of the character she plays in flashbacks of things that occurred before the first episode as the character being 17 and then think that the character was 18 or 19 when she met Xiao Wuyi and was in her early 20s by the end of the drama).
But I did appreciate the dynamic of Xiao Wuyi falling for her but holding himself back for various reasons. HMH made me feel that.
That the women do not serve as a tool, but are strong and independent in their own way, with their own aspirations and dreams.
Lots of great female characters and dynamics to appreciate. I quite liked Jiayu's relationship with her mum and the relationship between Wuyi's three consorts. Not to mention Ruisheng,
And I cannot help but wonder how things might have been different if Xiao Yao were more courageous like Xie Jiayu when her man was determined to be a noble idiot.
For some reason this got me thinking that XL's ending and choices might've been a little easier to accept if he had a terminal diagnosis like Wuyi and (unlike Wuyi) zero way to overcome it, so that his fate was sealed and it was simply a matter of choosing to control how he went out.
But that brings back the common refrain in this thread - if that part of the story had been less painful, would we have been as moved by it and would we have spent nearly as much time talking and thinking about it?
To be honest, I would've preferred having an older female lead actress (not someone who was 17) opposite a male lead actor who was 28. I'm glad the actors' ages were taken into consideration and they didn't include certain scenes or dynamics that would not be appropriate in the circumstances and I can still enjoy a drama that doesn't include those things
While the production team specifically stated that they amended the script to make it age appropriate for Ai Mi, I had my reservations when I first watched, but was very pleasantly surprised to see how seriously they took that stance, which ultimately produced some of the most memorable scenes I've watched in so many years. Xie Jiayu was 16 when she married Xiao Wuyi, and would have been roughly in her early 20s by the end, so she was the right age as far as her character went. Though Ai Mi took over quite late after the original actress (who was a year older) was hit by a scandal, she made the role her own and now I can't imagine the original actress or anyone else as her. Having read the near-finalised script, there were at least 2 kissing scenes that were removed and several other intimate interactions that did not make it in the drama. But despite the script according more perspective on the characters' thoughts and feelings, the actors' interpretations and performances elevated the final product and made it unforgettable for me.
For some reason this got me thinking that XL's ending and choices might've been a little easier to accept if he had a terminal diagnosis like Wuyi and (unlike Wuyi) zero way to overcome it, so that his fate was sealed and it was simply a matter of choosing to control how he went out.
You make a good point there. KttPH prepared us pretty much from the onset that he was living on borrowed time. Xiang Liu on the other hand always had the option to survive and even be with the woman he loved, but he chose to go to certain death and protect her all the way to the end until he knew that he could no longer do so while refusing to ever let her know the extent of all that he did for her. I wonder whether it is the refusal to let her know that hurts the most, the concealment of his selfless love that was his answer to her three have-nots, his final blessing to her hidden within the big-bellied doll? Would it have been better for us as readers, eased the pain a little, if Xiao Yao finally knew what he had done, even if it was too late and Xiang Liu had died, even if it would have gone against the grain of everything Xiang Liu planned so meticulously, wanting nothing more than for her to have a lifetime of carefree peace and happiness without him. In a sense, Sir Bi in the novel, and A'Nian in the drama are an extension of us - hurting for Xiang Liu all the more because they know but can never breathe a word of it to her.
Xie Jiayu was 16 when
To preserve my enjoyment I'm going to pretend I didn't read this part. 😅
Though Ai Mi took over quite late after the original actress (who was a year older) was hit by a scandal, she made the role her own and now I can't imagine the original actress or anyone else as her.
Oh, I didn't know about all of that. I had assumed one of the reasons she was chosen was because she worked with HMH in Fangs of Fortune. I didn't realize she was a replacement.
I can see why they would want a young actress for the role given how naive and sheltered the character is in the beginning despite being intelligent, but for a situation where the actor playing the romantic interest is in their late 20s and the character ages over the course of the drama I'd prefer either an older actress who is styled younger for the parts of the drama where the female lead is at her youngest or a split casting with one actress for the young parts and another for the older parts.
I felt like dramas like Hidden Love and Love for You managed to navigate the age dynamic in those dramas pretty well.
But if Jaiyu was supposed to be 16 when she got married... given the timing of when Wuyi's feelings developed (despite not being expressed) that feels like a script issue that couldn't really be fixed by casting choices.
KttPH prepared us pretty much from the onset that he was living on borrowed time.
And that, in turn, provided a very understandable additional reason (beyond the fact that he was friends with Li Mao and aware that the two of them already had feelings for each other) for Wuyi to not reveal his feelings and fight to win Jaiyu's heart for a long time. How could he do so when he knew he had such little time left to live? It would've been cruel to Jaiyu.
So I could imagine a somewhat similar scenario for XL where his choices would be a little bit easier to understand (although still painful for the reader / audience) if he knew with certainty that he was going to die within a relatively short amount of time, by immortal standards.
Xiang Liu on the other hand always had the option to survive and even be with the woman he loved, but he chose to go to certain death
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I wonder whether it is the refusal to let her know that hurts the most, the concealment of his selfless love that was his answer to her three have-nots, his final blessing to her hidden within the big-bellied doll? Would it have been better for us as readers, eased the pain a little, if Xiao Yao finally knew what he had done, even if it was too late and Xiang Liu had died, even if it would have gone against the grain of everything Xiang Liu planned so meticulously, wanting nothing more than for her to have a lifetime of carefree peace and happiness without him.
You know my preferred take on this. ^^
XY learning that information on top of XL's death would be utterly devastating and would undermine all XL's intentions. So ideally she would remain oblivious for most of her remaining long life, but would learn the full truth (and fully appreciate everything that XL did for her) shortly before her own death.
In a sense, Sir Bi in the novel, and A'Nian in the drama are an extension of us - hurting for Xiang Liu all the more because they know but can never breathe a word of it to her.
Indeed.
I'm still a bit sad that Sir Bi was removed from the narrative in the drama.
SnowcupArc:
Several LYF cast members are making welcome appearances in ATC. What’s more, these newer characters seem connected to their LYF counterparts, keeping the same essence. For example, Hao reappears in the drama as a soldier who saved the male lead’s life, earning entry into the noble Lin family household. The extended family includes three coming-of-age daughters, not all equal in good sense. With Hao’s hidden ambitions, along with his sister’s, likely to conflict with the main leads and the Lin family’s interests, the plot intrigue ratchets up a notch. Not to mention the Yellow Emperor, Lao Mu and Jing Ye featured in the earlier episodes, lending their weight, heart, and tears to the story.
I've been watching it too. Liu Xue Yi and Tong Hou? How could I resist? Though it really is more about the female leads. And yes! I noticed lots of LYF cast members. I can't believe the actor for TS Hou got another resting villain face role! lol
Did anyone else notice the resemblance between the teen actress, playing the younger female lead in the first episode, to Xiao Yao (YZ)? Uncanny.
Hmmm. You mean to Yang Zi? Not sure I see it. But she was definitely excellent. All the actors are very good.
We don't have a Xiang Liu type character at all. But I did notice that the FILTER account gave a shout out to Tan Jian Ci for his Golden Deer Best Actor award, and then he showed support for Star Lotus, with cloud reservations. Made me wonder if there might a 3rd collaboration in the future? hmmmmm
Wishing all a very blessed and happy Mid-Autumn Festival!
On this day, I am yet again reminded of Xiang Liu and Xiao Liu's stroll on the ocean, watching the rising of the full moon... the memory of which also haunted Xiao Yao after his death.
~~~~~~~~~
Xiang Liu strolled with Xiao Liu, treading the waves against the wind.
There was not even a sliver of light, the sky was dark, the ocean pitch black with nothing ahead of them and nothing behind, a vast world where the winds blew and the waves swelled. Xiao Liu felt so insignificant as if he would be swallowed up by a wave at any moment, and he subconsciously tightened his grip on Xiang Liu’s hand.
Xiang Liu suddenly stopped. Xiao Liu did not know why he did, but he did not ask. Instead he involuntarily leaned closer to Xiang Liu, accompanying him as they stared towards the east.
Not long after that, a bright full moon slowly rose from the surface of the ocean, clear, bright moonlight shining down. Stunned by the breathtaking sight, the hard shell around Xiao Liu’s heart softened.
Amidst the sound of the waves, Xiang Liu’s voice could be heard. “As long as such sights still exist in the world, life is very precious.”
Xiao Liu murmured, “No matter how rare a scenery is, one will get tired of it if seen too often. It is only meaningful if someone is with me to see it. Sceneries are dead, only people can give it meaning.”
No one could tell if Xiang Liu heard Xiao Liu’s words, but he did not respond in any way.
-- Lost You Forever Vol 1 Ch4
~~~~~~~~~
Outside the palace walls, a bright round moon hung in the sky, cold and desolate.
Xiao Yao thought of the moon in Qingshui Town. When Xiang Liu died, was the moon in the sky also shining silently down on him like this? Did he remember the moon that they once looked at together?
-- Lost You Forever Vol 3 Ch18
Outside the palace walls, a bright round moon hung in the sky, cold and desolate.
It's long time back. I remember we had some posts about Xiao Yao's wedding day and if I remember correctly it was end of the month or the beginning of a new month. and she got the news of Xiang Liu's death a few day after the wedding. Thus it's still quite away from the full moon night (15th or 16th day of a lunar month)
Aaaaaah. Now I'm sniffling. Thank you, liddi
Oh... I'm so sorry to make you sad. Just couldn't help feeling a little melancholy thinking of the association between the moon and YaoLiu, especially on this day.
H19279:
It's long time back. I remember we had some posts about Xiao Yao's wedding day and if I remember correctly it was end of the month or the beginning of a new month. and she got the news of Xiang Liu's death a few day after the wedding. Thus it's still quite away from the full moon night (15th or 16th day of a lunar month)
Hi! Yes, I remember the very avid discussions on the thread about what Xiao Yao saw after his death as well as the detailed calculations that went into determining what moon it was. Nonetheless, my stance has always been based on the original text (both the 2013 and 2019 versions), which describes the moon as 一轮:
宫墙外，一轮皓月，冷冷清清。
Outside the palace walls, a bright round moon hung in the sky, cold and desolate.
As a matter of reference, the same classifier 一轮 was used to describe the moon that Xiang Liu and Xiao Liu saw during their ocean stroll:
没有多久，一轮明月，缓缓从海面升起，清辉倾泻而下，
Not long after that, a bright round (full) moon slowly rose from the surface of the ocean, clear, bright moonlight shining down.
轮 is a classifier that refers to round, disc-like objects. As such, the text indicates that the moon she saw after his death was a round, bright moon. It may not necessarily have been a full moon, but it was certainly not a crescent, new or half moon, which would have used the classifier 一弯 (meaning "curve"), 一钩 (meaning "hook", which reflects the shape of the moon) or 一牙 (牙 literally means "tooth").
