Xiang Liu and Xiao Yao’s Story and Romance

 Kokuto:

Part of the problem is XY is an unreliable narrator.  Did she actually get the walnut Lovers Bug from an old woman?  She says the old woman was dying, and then she went on her way, like she wasn't dying....

XY does have some holes in her thinking due to her problems, but if we were to believe her claim, then she chatter/talks nonsense, but she doesn't lie. XL didn't believe her. He pegged her a "slippery loach" the first time that they met and called her a liar a few times. 

A bit of a side note; the Vietnamese translation used a particular expression for "chatter/nonsense" that encompassed both talking nonsense and bullshitting/lying and not to be believed.  If anyone has the Mandarin wording here, to do a translation for accuracy.  In general, I think of XY as someone who has a rather loose relationship with the truth when it serves her. She may not outright lie, but she bends, exaggerates and omits details, minimising the importance of accuracy. 

I think she found the woman when she was dying (a dirty beggar, kinda like Jing). She helped this woman clean up and dress up to meet someone. The woman ended up dying in a rather gruesome way. I think we speculated that she died due to the Lover Bugs' retaliation. 

 Kokuto:

I wonder if this old woman was the same one who gave Su Cheng Cheng the filter bracelet? lol

Yup. And her name is Tong Hua :-)

 Kokuto:

Really?  I'm not sure, though, given what she said, about pretending not to know him, he'd have to realize that she didn't know what the bugs were.  And when she's letting Jing carry her off, he definitely knew she was ignorant.

Not quite sure about what you mean here. If you could elaborate. 

What I mean is that when he was questioning her about where she got the bugs and how she knew how to raise them, she was evasive, and he scoffed and made comments indicating that he knew that she was bullshitting/hiding information from him. i.e she was being the slippery loach that he pegged her for. I think he outright said that she was lying during this passage as well. 

 Snowcup:

You all are making me nostalgic for AH's excerpts.  :-)

LOL!  Yes, indeed!

 HeadInTheClouds:

XY does have some holes in her thinking due to her problems, but if we were to believe her claim, then she chatter/talks nonsense, but she doesn't lie. XL didn't believe her. He pegged her a "slippery loach" the first time that they met and called her a liar a few times.

I'm going to have to go with XL on this one, and agree that XY does lie, not just bend the truth, and is definitely slippery.   :)

 HeadInTheClouds:

I think she found the woman when she was dying (a dirty beggar, kinda like Jing). She helped this woman clean up and dress up to meet someone. The woman ended up dying in a rather gruesome way. I think we speculated that she died due to the Lover Bugs' retaliation.

Oh, I had a different impression of the old woman.  I didn't think she had the Lovers Bug that had turned into a Heartbreak bug.  I mean, that would have been a terrible repayment, to give XY, without instructions or warnings or even a name -- it would be like sitting her up to fail.

 HeadInTheClouds:

Not quite sure about what you mean here. If you could elaborate.

If XL thought XY knew the name of the Bug and how it worked, he had to realize he was wrong, when XY on the beach after she refused his air kiss, admitted she was going to ghost him.  He had to realize then, that she didn't know it could turn into the Heartbreak Bug and kill them both, if she tried to end their relationship.

I agree, that he thought she was hiding some information from him while she was trying to get him to transfer the bug to himself.  But he didn't know exactly what it was, though his suspicion seemed centered on the alleged old woman and what she told XY -- at least that's how it seemed to me.

 HeadInTheClouds:

I believe she did attempt to plant it on XL, but it was unsuccessful. Why? There are a few theories: 1) the bugs were afraid of XL, so without his clear acceptance/willingness, they didn't dare to go near him; 2) he knew that she tried and deliberately repelled the bug.

There is a third option.  That neither of them, or one of them, did not have 'love in their heart' at that time.

Good to see new faces here - welcome @AkuMau ! - and awesome to still see familiar faces and lively discussions on the thread! Wish I could join in but am still travelling and really busy even though I did manage to squeeze in S1 Ep1 just the other day and teared up all over again...  Anyway, very quickly...

 Kokuto:

Part of the problem is XY is an unreliable narrator.  Did she actually get the walnut Lovers Bug from an old woman?  She says the old woman was dying, and then she went on her way, like she wasn't dying....

 HeadInTheClouds:

A bit of a side note; the Vietnamese translation used a particular expression for "chatter/nonsense" that encompassed both talking nonsense and bullshitting/lying and not to be believed.  If anyone has the Mandarin wording here, to do a translation for accuracy.  In general, I think of XY as someone who has a rather loose relationship with the truth when it serves her. She may not outright lie, but she bends, exaggerates and omits details, minimising the importance of accuracy. 

Am not exactly sure which phrase you are referring to unless we are talking about when Xiang Liu called Xiao Liu out for the inconsistencies in her narration about how she obtained the Lovers' bugs?  The Chinese text is 胡说八道 which literally means "you are talking utter nonsense".

I do not believe the old woman planted the Lovers bug before and suffered its retaliation before she died. Her lover was long deceased, so she could not have planted the Lovers bug in him and survived for so long after his death. In addition, if she had planted the Lovers bug, she could not have had a second pair to give to Xiao Yao. Also, the old woman's body was devoured by insects only after she died. I don't see any indication that any poisonous bug was the cause of her death?

One night, Xiang Liu vaulted off the condor to find Xiao Liu sitting cross-legged on the grass, his body hunched forward with his hands on his knees, staring gloomily at the river.

Xiang Liu asked, “What’s on your mind?”

“How exactly to remove that poisonous bug. Xuan has already sent his men once to ask for the method to undo it.” Given Xuan’s real identity, the poisonous bug might not kill him, but sooner or later, it would cause Xiao Liu’s death. Unwilling to be used by others anymore, Xiao Liu could only rack his brains trying to figure out how to remove the poisonous bugs.

“I already told you — find another person and lure the poisonous bug to them.”

“Who would be willing? Maybe one of Xuan’s men would.”

Xiang Liu said dispassionately, “Not just anyone will do.”

“Why not?”

“You raised the poisonous bug yourself. Don’t you know?”

“I… I don’t know.” Xiao Liu said guiltily.

“Where did you get the poisonous bugs?”

“Many, many years ago, I encountered an elderly woman from the Bai Li tribe. You should know that the legendary most brutal, bloodthirsty evil monster Chi Chen 赤宸 was from the Bai Li tribe. After he was killed by the Yellow Emperor, the entire Bai Li tribe was reverted back to the lowest status. Men were born to be slaves while the women were born to be servants. That old woman was a slave no one wanted, dirty and foul-smelling, lying on the verge of death in the mud. I felt that she was very pitiful so I asked if she had any last wishes before she died. She said she hoped to take a bath and go to meet her long-deceased lover cleanly. So, I took her to the riverbank, let her take a bath, and even helped her style her hair into a Bai Li woman’s bun. She gave me a blackened mountain walnut, saying she had nothing of value but this pair of poisonous bugs, which she gave to me as a token of her gratitude. She asked me to leave, and then she passed away. Her body attracted many insects, and was very quickly devoured clean. Later on, when I did not know how to deal with you, I remembered the walnut I had carried with me for many years but never used. So, I followed the method of cultivating poisonous bugs, using my own blood and flesh to nourish them, and let one of them choose me as its master. The other one was originally intended for you but I ended up planting it in Xuan instead.”

“How did you learn to cultivate poisonous bugs?”

Xiao Liu’s eyes darted around. “That old woman told me!”

Xiang Liu coldly laughed. “胡说八道 [What you're saying is] utter nonsense. If she had told you how to cultivate the bugs, how could she not have told you what the name of this particular poisonous bug was?”

Xiao Liu was well aware of the inconsistencies in his own words, so he simply adopted a shameless attitude. “Why do you care how I know how to raise poisonous bugs. I just do, that’s all.”

Xiang Liu said, “The pair of poisonous bugs you have is very rare. If you want to remove the bug in Xuan, the only way is to find another person and lure the bug into that person.”

“What kind of person would meet the requirement?”

Xiang Liu fell silent. After a moment, he said stiffly, “I don’t know!”

Xiao Liu did not believe him but could not understand why Xiang Liu would not tell him, so he asked tentatively, “Do you fit the requirement?”

-- Vol 1 Ch7

As for the bugs, I believe Xiao Yao never knew what kind of bugs that was given to her by the old woman. Her guilty reaction was more towards being unwilling to reveal how she learnt the method of cultivating poisonous bugs, which was from the journals her mother inherited from the Flame Emperor and bequeathed to her. Hence, her nonsensical claim to Xiang Liu that she was taught by the old woman - something he immediately called her out on. Her conversation with Shé Mei Er much later also reinforced that she had no idea what kind of bugs they were until then, which was why she was stunned when the name of the bugs was revealed to her, a revelation that reignited the hope in her that Xiang Liu does love her after all.

Xiao Yao said, “She’s a pitiful woman.”

Shé Mei Er sighed, “A woman’s greatest fear is to give her heart to the wrong man!”

Xiao Yao stared at the tea cup in her hand and said nothing.

Shé Mei Er looked around to make sure they were alone and then said, “Your Highness once mentioned the poisonous bug that is inside you. I have been thinking about it all this time, and still haven’t figured out exactly what kind it is — but, I do remember a poisonous bug from Bai Li legend.”

Xiao Yao perked up and listened carefully. “What kind of bug?”

Shé Mei Er explained, “Most poisonous bugs are mother-child bugs. The mother bug can control the child bug, and such bugs are easy to raise and plant. However, according to legend, there is a kind of bug that is extremely difficult to raise, and is made up of male and female bugs. It is hard to raise, and even harder to plant. If a woman raised the bug, she must find a man to plant it. If a man raised the bug, he must find a woman to plant it. It is common for someone to have raised the bug for their whole life but never be able to plant it, so such bugs only exist in the legends in Bai Li.”

“Exactly what kind of bug is it?”

“I don’t know what kind of bug it is either. I only know its name. It is called Lovers poisonous bug 情人蛊. As the saying goes, ‘Lovers bug, heart joining heart 情人蛊，心连心’. It is very similar to what Your Highness described.”

Xiao Yao was stunned and in a daze for a while. She then asked, “If a woman raised the bug, she must find a man to plant it in. However, this world is made up of men and women, so it doesn’t sound difficult to plant the bug! How could it be possible to raise the bug for a lifetime and still be unable to plant it?”

Shé Mei Er shook her head and said apologetically, “My knowledge is too limited. Back then, I just listened and let it pass, treating it as merely a legend and never looked deeper into it. But our Shaman King would definitely know. If Your Highness has time, please visit Bai Li! Even though people outside say we are frightening, but our people are truly good people.”

Xiao Yao said, “When I have the chance, I will definitely visit Bai Li.”

-- Vol 2 Ch9  (Chapter 26)

 Kokuto:

Oh, I had a different impression of the old woman.  I didn't think she had the Lovers Bug that had turned into a Heartbreak bug.  I mean, that would have been a terrible repayment, to give XY, without instructions or warnings or even a name -- it would be like sitting her up to fail.

We speculated about it in all of our long, numerous discussions, but I don't think it was confirmed.

That was the thing that I tried to make sense of: why would you give someone a highly dangerous tool as a thank-you without explaining the pros and cons of it? Which brings me to another possibility that we haven't considered - maybe this woman doesn't know that what she gave XY was the Lover Bug? 

The other thing that I thought of was why this bug was not included in the poison manual that XY knows? I suppose we can explain that away by saying that, since it was considered a legend, it was omitted. However, if it were me, I would have included everything for completion's sake.

Anyway, I think given all the other details in the novel,  the most reasonable thing to conclude is that XY didn't know that it was the Lover Bug poison when she planted them. 

 Kokuto:

I agree, that he thought she was hiding some information from him while she was trying to get him to transfer the bug to himself.  But he didn't know exactly what it was

 Kokuto:

If XL thought XY knew the name of the Bug and how it worked, he had to realize he was wrong, when XY on the beach after she refused his air kiss, admitted she was going to ghost him.

Yes. We knew that she was trying to hide the fact that she knew the Poison Manual, but it is reasonable to think that he thought she was lying about her knowledge of the bug. I don't think we were confirmed when XL found out about the nature of the Lover Bug in the novel (although this could be inferred from their exchange), whereas in the drama, he knew before the implantation.  People *cough* Jingers *cough*, were accusing him of taking advantage of XY. But, would it be logical for him to think that she knows, because why would someone with some sense do such a harebrained thing? I guess he underestimated XY's harebrainedness and realised it too late. Moral of the story: don't make assumptions when you are deciding whether to tie your life to another. Lol!

 HeadInTheClouds:

We speculated about it in all of our long, numerous discussions, but I don't think it was confirmed.

That was the thing that I tried to make sense of: why would you give someone a highly dangerous tool as a thank-you without explaining the pros and cons of it? Which brings me to another possibility that we haven't considered - maybe this woman doesn't know that what she gave XY was the Lover Bug?

Ah, yes.  Plenty of discussion. :)

From liddi's post, it looks like it was the only thing the old woman had of value ... maybe she thought it wouldn't be dangerous, given it was so hard to use, i.e. find someone to plant it in.  But you think she could have at least given it's name.  Some clue that it WAS valuable and why.

I think the old woman knew.  She was from Bai Li.

 HeadInTheClouds:

The other thing that I thought of was why this bug was not included in the poison manual that XY knows? I suppose we can explain that away by saying that, since it was considered a legend, it was omitted. However, if it were me, I would have included everything for completion's sake.

Well ... it was from Bai Li, and it may have been considered part of the lore of the shaman, not to be shared with The Flame Emperor.  Especially given it's legendary status.

 HeadInTheClouds:

I don't think we were confirmed when XL found out about the nature of the Lover Bug in the novel, whereas in the drama, he knew before the implantation. People *cough* Jingers *cough*, were accusing him of taking advantage of XY.

They didn't have a scene of him learning about the Lovers Bug in the novel, but he clearly knew all the important details before he accepted the transfer.  He knew it could only be transferred to selected people (ones who had love in their heart for the planter).  He knew he had to be willing to accept it.  He seemed to know it was a forever connection, that could turn into the Heartbreak Bug.

Jingers are ridiculous and should realize they've got no room to talk about characters taking advantage of XY.   eyeroll

 HeadInTheClouds:

But, would it be logical for him to think that she knows, because why would someone with some sense do such a harebrained thing? I guess he underestimated XY's harebrainedness and realised it too late. Moral of the story: don't make assumptions when you are deciding whether to tie your life to another. Lol!

LOL!  

The question that XL missed was the one we've chewed over repeatedly.  WHY was XY able to place the Lovers Bug in CX at all?  Who was CX to WXL?  That should have been the five alarm fire bell going off in one of his heads.  I guess he was a little harebrained himself. ;p

 Kokuto:

The question that XL missed was the one we've chewed over repeatedly.  WHY was XY able to place the Lovers Bug in CX at all?  Who was CX to WXL?  That should have been the five alarm fire bell going off in one of his heads.  I guess he was a little harebrained himself. ;p

My interpretation of this is that the Lover Bugs are difficult to plan successfully. You can try to plan with any Tom, Dick or Harry, and it will take initially, but it won't last and will result in retaliation.  It was difficult to plan because it was difficult to find someone who loves you and is willing to tie their life to you irrevocably. The risks are very high because, let's face it, a lover's heart can be fickle, and most people want to live on even when their lover has died.   Even if there was love, if they weren't willing, it would still retaliate. So it's love and commitment that are deep and freely given. 

In the drama, when XL asked the old man if it could be planted if there was no love, he quickly said no, before saying that perhaps, but it probably won't have a good outcome. 

With XY claiming that she grew it specifically for him and being shifty about knowing its name (from his perspective), once it was successfully planted, it was like a confirmation to him that their love was mutual. Hence, he was hella pissed when it seemed like she er..hit it and quit it????  I'm just imagining Xy as the lying cad and XL as the damsel who has been deceived. He should have demanded that she takes responsibility for him. LOL