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Xiang Liu and Xiao Yao’s Story and Romance

MountainPine
 Kikinaki:

XL wins on all my polls😃

And mine as well! He is #1 for me forever, the most favourite fictional character I have ever met in a book or in a movie. And no matter how many movies and books I will read and watch in the future - he will still be #1 in my heart and mind.

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blabla100

I am looking forward to read an analysis on XY, since she îs, IMO, the most complex and layered character from the story. Not an easy task, if you ask me. I find her depth to be almost on the same level with dostoievski's characters. Her internal struggles, her insomnias, her depression sort of reminds me of raskolnikov în crime and punishment. XY's insomnia, btw, started way before losing Jing, it's during chapter 11 that we begin to see signs of it. 


I think it's harder though to analyse XY, because more often than not, the reader does not have access to the whole picture. We can get some insights on what her thoughts are from the discussions and views she express while talking to, but especially while talking about other characters, but it's still pretty difficult to know her entirely, since she herself refuses to face some things, on top of being very cunning. She always knew who her real father îs, she always knew that it was CX who spread the rumour about  her mom and chiyou, she was always aware that she sabotaged her relationship to Jing herself, she always knew that the man she wanted to spend her life with îs XL and she always knew that XL's path is going to end on the battlefield, but she chose not to think of these things out loud, because she had no solution for them anyway. The emphasis here îs on "she knew",  knowing but refusing to speak of them with subject and predicate is not the same as being în denial, IMO.  She's so smart that even we, the readers, often get deceived by her.

 We get a glimpse at her way of thinking during the underwater trip, when she recalls all of XL's embraces during their 37 years togheter,  yet she chose to play dumb because she knows that XL doesn't want her to mention them. 

XY uses half truths to deceive us, while XL uses silence. 

Another exemple of XY's cleverness can be found în chapter 11, when she asks jing if he îs not afraid of being followed

"After some moments, Xiao Liu asked “Not afraid of being followed?”

“My ancestor is the fox. I am the only one who tracks others. Few people can track me.”

Xiao Liu remembered being captured by Xiang Liu the first time and how he found her. The second time when Zhuan Xu tossed her in prison, he again found her. He really was very adept at tracking.

At first glance she seems to be impress of Jing's ability of tracking, but what she actually does îs also taking notice of Jing's words that only "few can track me".  Neither XL or CX were able to sense him în the previous ocasions, so giving his statement, how could XY not realize that if Jing really wanted, they could have escaped CX?  She figured it out for sure, but as usual, tong hua only wanted to emphasize the first part, while hidding the other implication.


By her intentions, she's the total opposite of the little mermaid, who gave up her identity and family in order to be human and try to get the prince to love her, but by actions they are quite similar. Both lost their voice (the self worth) and legs (the freedom) as sacrifice. While the little mermaid sacrificed these things for herself, XY did it for others, CX especially.


 I know that at first glance is easy to believe that things didn't materialise between XY and XL because of XY and since we all love XL so much, we tend to be subjective in our opinions about XY, but as I said before, I believe both of them had the choice or, depending on how we look at things, had no choice. 

Like ying and yang, they were opposed forces who complemented eachother and this is beautifully explained by tong hua when she described how the crystal ball cold to the touch îs no longer bone chilling (XL) , while the fu sang wood would no longer burn up on contact (XY). A similar parallel can also be found în the QS's town scene, when XY tried to catch snowflakes (XL) , but they melted the moment they touched her hand.  They could never be, so instead they chose to balance and fulfill eachother. 

 În a way, I will even go as far as saying that getting togheter is almost as betraying the other,  because it means to put your wishes above the other, without consideration for the costs. How could XL accept XY,  knowing that she would have to betray her family for him and how could XY accept XL, knowing that he will have to live with the shadow of countless soldiers for her?  Maybe the reason why the bugs never backfired was precisely because neither of them put oneself above the other and rather both of them acted în the interest of the other at the cost of their own heartbreak and that's the purest form of love, IMO.

"the crystal was water essence and the Fu Sang God Wood was a fire essence so the two opposing powers contained each other. The crystal’s ice essence was no longer bone chilling and the Fu Sang God Wood would no longer burn up on contact."


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blabla100

Another exemple of why I believe XY is not as self deceiving as some people think is because of the poisions she made for XL. IMO her poisions were her pursuit, she deliberately wanted to share every aspect of her life with XL, otherwise she wouldn't have put so much time and effort into them, she would have keep them simple as în the beginning.

When they watched the moon togheter, she told him that beautiful moments have meaning only when there is someone to share them with or something along these lines, so when she saw a beautiful sunset, she did her best to craft it as beautiful as possible, because she wanted to share it with XL, as they shared that moon rising on the sea.

She admitted it herself, "if you truly hold someone în your heart, you will naturally want to share every little detail of your life with them". IMO this line is very straightforward, there is no self deceit here, just an open admission.


What's more, when she got engaged to feng long, she told Bei that after she gets married, she won't make him poisions anymore. That begs the question "why"? Bei didn't ask and XY didn't elaborate, since both of them already knew the answer, but what does her marriage has to do with her making poisions for XL?
If these poisons were meant for CX, would she still stop making them after marriage? Of course not. She would only stop making them for XL, because she was aware of  what these poisons represent, the intention behind them, therefore to keep making them for XL after her marriage to feng long would be equivalent to being unfaithful and she knew that. Both of them knew, that's why there were no questions asked. 

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AH

I'm not sure if the old regulars in this thread will see this, but as I was scrolling today the algorithm fed me this short clip. It made me think of XL and LYF for the first time in a while, and I felt like some of you might appreciate it, too. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sFb4jycc2Ag&list=WL&index=103

  • Long, white hair   ✅
  • Goggles that look a bit like a white or translucent mask   ✅
  • Swimming with the fish and a shark like he'd be at home in the sea   ✅
  • Wielding a sword in a manner that creates a trail of white/clear bubbles in its wake, reminiscent of "ice droplets dancing in the air"   ✅
  • A rather sea-demon-like tail in the style of Ao Bing (the white/silver dragon prince and third son of Ao Guang, Dragon King of the East Sea - who both feature as characters in the Investiture of the Gods, with some noticeable similarities to Xang Liu and Gong Gong in the Classic of Mountains and Seas mixed with Xiang Liu and Gong Gong in LYF)     ✅

Oh and if any of you know what the background song is, I'd love to know the title!

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liddi

@AH

Hi! Very quickly...

Thank you for sharing the clip! This is a promotional video of the company 东方鲛 Oriental Mermaid, advertising their mermaid tail costume. I can't imagine Xiang Liu as a merman... but definitely I can see the references both in the video, and in the song itself.

The song is 美人鱼 Mermaid, originally sung by JJ Lin. The lyrics are actually a little reminiscent of Xiao Yao waiting by the sea for Xiang Liu during those 7 days:

美人鱼  (原唱：林俊杰)Mermaid  (Original singer: JJ Lin)


我在沙滩划个圆圈I draw a circle on the beach
属于我俩安逸世界A peaceful world for just us two
不用和别人连线No need to connect with anyone else


我不管你来自深渊I don't care if you're from the abyss
也不在乎身上鳞片Nor mind the scales upon your skin
爱情能超越一切Love can conquer everything


只要你在我身边As long as you stay by my side
所有蜚语流言 完全视而不见All the gossip and the rumors, I'll completely turn a blind eye
请不要匆匆一面Please don't let our meeting be so brief
一转身就沉入海平线Vanishing beneath the horizon line


传说中你为爱甘心被搁浅Legend says you were willing to be run aground for love,
我也可以为你潜入海里面I would dive into the sea for you too
怎么忍心断绝 忘记我不变的誓言How could you bear to sever, forget my unchanging vows
我眼泪断了线My tears stream down uncontrollably.


现实里有了我对你的眷恋Reality now has my longing for you
我愿意化作雕像等你出现I'm willing to become a statue waiting for you to appear
再见再也不见Goodbye, never to meet again
心碎了飘荡在海边My heart is shattered, drifting by the shore
你抬头就看见You'll see it when you look up
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AH
 liddi:
The song is 美人鱼 Mermaid, originally sung by JJ Lin. The lyrics are actually a little reminiscent of Xiao Yao waiting by the sea for Xiang Liu during those 7 days:

Oh my goodness, liddi! You not only provided the song title, but also the singer, a link to the full song, and a translation of the lyrics?!? You are incredible! 


I definitely see a bit of YaoLiu in those lyrics!

Some of it is reminiscent of XY waiting on the beach by the sea for XL, but some of it also reminds me of a few other scenes too... like in chapter 26 when they went on their under-sea date and afterwards XY wished that she could spend her whole life like that (just the two of them together, enjoying themselves in the sea and on the beach, with no one else). 

Or in chapter 43, after XY saw XL's true form after XL instructed her not to look. He was furious and made as if to leave despite his injuries, but XY basically said that she didn't care that he was a sea demon or that his true form was much bigger than her and had eight more heads than her. Then she goaded him into drinking her blood to heal his wounds and (despite her childhood trauma) trusted him not to drink her dry. 

Or all the times that XY chose to spend time with FFB without caring about her reputation or rumors. 

Or when she went to dive into the sea to follow after XL in 37, but TSJ grabbed her and physically stopped her. 

Or the time she wept uncontrollably into Furball's neck in chapter 22 when XL did not meet her after she woke up from her 37-year sleep and when she wept uncontrollably under the moon in chapter 51 when she mourned XL's death. 

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liddi
 AH :
Oh my goodness, liddi! You not only provided the song title, but also the singer, a link to the full song, and a translation of the lyrics?!? You are incredible! 

You're too kind. I was fortunate as I managed to catch the lyrics and did a search. And once I read the lyrics, I could not help translating it.

You are right! It is very YaoLiu... predominantly of Xiao Yao's POV and her longing for Xiang Liu.

In addition to the examples you mentioned, for me, the world which only belonged to them both is also reminiscent of the crystal globe, a world Xiao Yao created just for them alone, one that had no place for anyone else, one which she pleaded for him to take her hand and stay with her in their home.

A base of turquoise ocean was encased within the transparent ice crystal. In the tranquil waters, there were colourful small fish, red corals, and a large, pure white seashell, blooming like the brightest, purest of flowers. A beautiful mermaid sat sideways on the seashell, her seaweed-like black hair cascading down. Part of her beautiful tail rested on the white seashell while the other half was floating in the water. She had one hand on her heart, and the other stretched outwards, as if trying to grasp something, or call someone to her. In the direction of her outstretched hand, a merman floated on the waves. He appeared to be not far from the seashell, but his cold, indifferent gaze was fixed beyond the crystal, giving the impression that he was actually in another world, and not amidst that tranquil, serene ocean.

-- Vol 2 Chapter 14  (Chapter 31)

Which in turn reminds us that in the end, the addition of the man to the globe was not the world and life she herself envisioned and wanted from the start...

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AH
 liddi:
In addition to the examples you mentioned, for me, the world which only belonged to them both is also reminiscent of the crystal globe, a world Xiao Yao created just for them alone, one that had no place for anyone else, one which she pleaded for him to take her hand and stay with her in their home.

Agreed!

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MountainPine
 blabla100:
I find her depth to be almost on the same level with dostoievski's characters.
Raskolnikov was not a deep character, Xiao Yao is much deeper. And Dostoevsky's writing style is primitive compared to Tong Hua's one. There are just too many letters and everything is ''chewed up'' for the reader.

Let me describe Raskolnikov briefly and clearly. He was just lazy and a megalomaniac with signs of schizophrenia. He divided people into "worms" and a "superior race" that has the right to walk on corpses. Luckily he was too pathetic, because otherwise he would have turned into Hitler. And his friend Sonya was the same. She could have chosen another profession instead of becoming a prostitute to finance her father's alcoholism. 

The problems of these people were their own miserable problems, and they were not as serious and deep as the insurmountable problems of Xiao Yao and Xiang Liu.

 blabla100:
she herself refuses to face some things, on top of being very cunning. She always knew who her real father îs, she always knew that it was CX who spread the rumour about  her mom and chiyou, she was always aware that she sabotaged her relationship to Jing herself, she always knew that the man she wanted to spend her life with îs XL and she always knew that XL's path is going to end on the battlefield, but she chose not to think of these things out loud, because she had no solution for them anyway. The emphasis here îs on "she knew",  knowing but refusing to speak of them with subject and predicate is not the same as being în denial, IMO.
I don't know how it calls - denying, refusing or something else, but all her attitudes towards people around her have led to disasters. Her father,  adopted father, mother, Xiang Liu... Will her relationship with Jing also end that way?

Also, her blindness towards her cousin's feelings for her. This also ended in disaster - Jing almost died.
Like... everything and everyone in her life is being perceived by her in a wrong - passive - denying way... It's fine to have someone in your life  that way, but definitely not MOST OF people...
 blabla100:
if Jing really wanted, they could have escaped CX?  She figured it out for sure, but as usual, tong hua only wanted to emphasize the first part, while hidding the other implication.

Reading other Chinese novels and getting more context of how things work there, I support this your deduction about Jing.

 blabla100:
By her intentions, she's the total opposite of the little mermaid, who gave up her identity and family in order to be human and try to get the prince to love her

She is really completely opposite, like yin and yang.
I apologize, I didn't explain it well enough, in the little mermaid I actually see Xiang Liu.

 blabla100:
What's more, when she got engaged to feng long, she told Bei that after she gets married, she won't make him poisions anymore. That begs the question "why"? Bei didn't ask and XY didn't elaborate, since both of them already knew the answer, but what does her marriage has to do with her making poisions for XL?
Couldn't this also be manipulation? "If you don't stop my crazy intentions to marry Feng Long right now - you will also suffer, by not receiving more poison. (A bit of cheap and stupid manipulation, something like: "if you don't do what I order, I'll shoot myself in the foot!")  This my comment is mostly joking :)
 blabla100:
Like ying and yang, they were opposed forces who complemented eachother and this is beautifully explained by tong hua when she described how the crystal ball cold to the touch îs no longer bone chilling (XL) , while the fu sang wood would no longer burn up on contact (XY).

You made a very good point about the harmony in the doll! To me, it symbolizes how harmonious, complementary, whole, and strong their relationship would be if they could come together.

I know she's a deep person, I am just struggling to find  good in her. Despite being 38 years old, mentally I am person of older generation and current proclamation "always put yourself first and  love yourself before everyone else, always choose yourself before everyone" sounds to me like total degradation of person. You wrote we all love Xiang Liu. But why do we love him THAT much? Maybe because he was nothing like that but rather totally opposite? And she does put herself first always... Even risking her life helping her brother  to gain power - she does that for herself first of all. She has no compassion for people. Otherwise she would help everyone as much as she can. But she helped a few just to have them around. She has had enough and rejects Jing very harshly at the very beginning (he almost became her victim) when at first she refused to take him and heal him, just watching him crawling around and waiting him to die).
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MountainPine
 liddi:
for me, the world which only belonged to them both is also reminiscent of the crystal globe, a world Xiao Yao created just for them alone, one that had no place for anyone else, one which she pleaded for him to take her hand and stay with her in their home.
This is incredibly beautifully said! This is probably one of my favorite quotes in this entire thread.

But it got me thinking... if I might express this my vision... I wonder why Xiang Liu didn't remove his figure from the crystal ball (that would be logical and necessary), if he actually removed himself from her life anyway, and dared to adjust the world of her dream in the crystal ball that she created. Thus, there is one woman and two men in the crystal ball. Somehow not very... harmonious "world" we have in the finale. How can the heroine move on with her life and have it normal, if there's still that other man in the crystal globe of her personal world?..

 Also, I thought how great it would be if there was such merch for sale - this crystal ball. It is an incredibly beautiful thing and I think many fans would buy it (I definitely would). It is beautiful even without being tied to the plot of a specific series or book. But I understand the reason why it was impossible to make it into reality without fueling even more a war between fans.
But if there was a master somewhere that makes transparent liquid resin designs of various shapes with particular figures on order - I would order it.
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blabla100

@MountainPine

As much as I love Tong Hua's writting style, the lessons I've learned from her books  and, obviously, her characters, since most if not all of her characters are very layered, as a writer, she's still far from Dostoievski. IMO  no one can match Dostoievski and his legacy, I have yet to find someone who can understand and put into words the human nature better than he did. Kafka, Nietzsche, Camus, Freud, they all have been greatly inspired by Dostoievski. Honestly, I believe even Tong Hua, because I see tracks of him into her works. Obviously you're not a fan and you consider him overrated, but to me Dostoievski is amazing.


As I said, XY is a very deep character, but her depth comes from the fact that she îs a cunning character, the reader îs being played, we don't know what's true and what's false, what's real and what's a performance. She's torn between her mind and her heart and Tong Hua knows how to play with this conflict by giving us just enough to know that there must be more to it than it's being said.


On the other hand, Dostoievski's works dissects the human nature like a surgeon. You say Razkolnikov îs lazy and a megalomaniac, but that's not even the point. Dostoievski's characters are not great by their actions or choices, but by their inner psychologic conflict and how the conflict îs being explored în depth, because Dostoievski doesn't just tell stories, he exposes the human conscience.
Razkolnikov îs a very complex anti-hero, Stavroghin from Demons îs very dark, a true villain, yet he îs so magnetic to the reader. În fact all of his characters are of extreme psychological intensity and that's what makes them unforgettable. I personally am a huge fan, I have read almost all his works, but I guess he's not everyone's cup of tea. 

It does surprise me a little though, giving that we both come from a similar background and we have the same age. Maybe for an american, as an exemple, îs harder to relate to Dostoievski, since their background îs very different, but oh well. 

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MountainPine
 blabla100:
Obviously you're not a fan and you consider him overrated, but to me Dostoievski is amazing.
I loved Dostoevsky as a child, so I reread the complete collection of his works - everything that is available for reading that he wrote. Some novels (the most famous ones) - 2-3 times. Also his detailed biography. Everything in the original, in Russian. So I was his fan definitely. Luckily, I have grown up.

I think that this reading can captivate a person in early youth, somewhere around 15-17 years old, when we are all maximalists. But when one grows up, they understand that all his characters are simply very mentally ill people. Because he was also a mentally ill person. Now, it seems, the world likes such characters. But we should not believe in the authority of idols from old times. We should look at everything with a sober, adult, fresh, and most importantly, healthy look :) Dostoevsky is to a large extent the ideologist of the Russian mentality. And that says it all. In his books, the Russian people are the saviors of the whole world and the ruling nation of the world.  Familiar narratives, he-he. Let's not go back to anything related to that in this thread.
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blabla100

@MountainPine

Let's just agree to disagree :) I respect your opinion, but I highly disagree with it. I don't want to start a debate on Dostoievski on here either, since it's not the right place, but I believe your opinion about his works are subjective due to his nationality. I agree though that his characters are ill people, but honestly I think most people with high intelligence are. His characters aren't meant to be taken as an exemple, but as a reflection of the human nature, moral warnings and  pathways to emphaty. 

To each its own, I guess. Btw, White Nights, although very short and not în my top 5, has some of the intimacy of XY-XL. A world for only two people. 

"I am a dreamer. I know so little of real life that I just can't help re-living such moments as these in my dreams, for such moments are something I have very rarely experienced. I am going to dream about you the whole night, the whole week, the whole year. I feel I know you so well that I couldn't have known you better if we'd been friends for twenty years. You won't fail me, will you? Only two minutes, and you've made me happy forever. Yes, happy. Who knows, perhaps you've reconciled me with myself, resolved all my doubts."

"May your sky always be clear, may your dear smile always be bright and happy, and may you be for ever blessed for that moment of bliss and happiness which you gave to another lonely and grateful heart. Isn't such a moment sufficient for the whole of one's life?"

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