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I’d say they’re more D/s (Dom, sub and discipline) than actual bondage. This is why there’s often the reward and punishment dialogue and things like teasing/edging in their s€x scenes which is more up there with discipline. Mame was def toying the line of keeping them there but also not trying to make viewers made of offended.

Also let me clarify this - there is no reason for Fiat to be suspicious or fall for Punns scheme because he knows that Leo is not in love with her. He has never considered her threat because of this fact. Leo cannot separate love and s€x. This is why Fiat has never had to see Leo fooling around with anyone during there friendship. This is why he’s so secure when I comes to Punn even before her scheming. So seeing Leo kiss her - sober or not - it’s easy for him to deduce that it’s a scheme. It’s easy to have faith in something you never had reason to question. Even his crying had nothing to do with doubting Leo and was about having to deal with something he’s never had to see their entire friendship. It’s literally about the different experience of experience he’s had than Leo had which is why Leo has and insecurity that he himself does not have. It’s his first time understanding how Leo felt for all those years in in their friendship.

I’m gonna skip most of this because I’ve already explained the ‘whys’ of this episode where they concern Leo in a post you have already seen (I’m saying this to say I’m not ignoring your takes but any rebuttal to them has already been made else where).

Even the bit about the drinking. I think you contextually just seem to forget the concept treat human thought process. If you remove Leo from the history he has experienced with Fiat then yeah I’d say he Leo why didn’t we think he could’ve been drugged. Just that history matters, it’s what makes us think and react the way we do. Also the fact that Leo is not upset about any so called shady biz as he states himself he knows what’s what. As I said in my other post he’s mad about the fact that he’s back in the emotional state he was previously. Note that he doesn’t start with the drinking he starts with - Why did you go, why didn’t you call me. Even if the drinking was left out he would still feel some type of way. If he even thought about drugging he would feel even worse.

You keep saying Fiat wasn’t fooled by Punn and I have already expressed the why if that but I really think the important aspect is missing her. Fiat wasn’t fooled by Punn and Leo wasn’t fooled by King - and yet BOTH were still emotionally effect by the acts that went on. And NEITHER responded as they should. Fiat shut down and tried to keep it to himself and Leo spoke in anger. Neither is wrong for their emotions but they both should’ve handled it differently and that’s a bit of the point. Leo isn’t wrong for feeling how he felt but he is wrong for speaking the way he did and treating Fiat as though they were in combat instead of partners. If he was angry he should have done the internal work and then communicated how he felt and he felt that way to Fiat once he was calmer. And Fiat shouldn’t try to hide and deal alone and pretend that everything is fine with him when it’s not. You share with your partner and deal with the issue. And it’s not just how they dealt with the fallout it’s also how they tried to resolve the issue. They both tried to handle it themselves and keep the other out the loop which left both them and their relationship vulnerable. They are not individuals anymore. Being in a relationship doesn’t mean just trying to hide and deal with things so your partner doesn’t have to because that can cause bigger blow outs. You have to move as a team that mutually respects eachother. Which is the point of the episode. Leo and fiat love eachother and they try to do for the other but sometimes they think too much about affecting the other rather than not affecting their partnership.
You seem to tatty to focus on whose right and whose wrong - they’re both wrong.

We spent all of DSN watching Fiat grown because we spent all of TharnType seeing his flaws. And that’s okay, that’s beautiful even. However this whole - I’m disappointed in Leo - thing will never make sense to me. I’m not saying you can’t be disappointed I just don’t understand in what. In him being human? In him having flaws? Having insecurities? I don’t think he’s gonna break down and be depressed because after realizing Fiat was drugged - I think he’ll be mad, I think he’ll be sorry Fiat had to go through that. But all the extra I don’t think so because it was not a the center issue in their breakdown at all. Nor did Fiat leave because Leo didn’t trust him. I think I spoke about this in my other post (I had two different ones - one shorter - so I’m not sure if it was in the one you read) but that’s not what his leaving was about. The important parts of Fiats Dialogue was his reference to the anger (this is a constant mention throughout TT2 & DSN as it’s important) & then before he leaves he says “I’m sorry I hurt you”. I don’t have time to break it down right now but it’s these parts that push home why Fiat responds the way he does.

It’s nice you finally get the point. Although I never say he has trust issues as that’s not the point of the episode or even my post. I explain it in detail because others didn’t get the full point but you say ‘to say all that’ and you still come away with extra conclusions so….

I’ll respond to your other reply later since it’s longer and I don’t have time to really read it and give you a considerate response right now.

I think some of y’all didn’t understand episode 11 because you didn’t understand the characters. It seems like many of you skipped the prequel altogether. And yes to really understand the characters relationship I think that was a misstep. Seems like some of y’all skipped through episode 11 cause y’all are saying things happened that in fact did not happen at all 😶

And then we have the ppl who say episode 11 is pointless as if delving into Leo’s side of things for once is not necessary.

I spoke about this in my spoiler a couple of comments down if you wanna check it out.

You should def watch it. A lot of ppl are not understanding these characters motivations in some scenes in the series and it’s likely cause they didn’t watch their back story. The special doesn’t even give you the whole picture but it does condense it down so you atleast have some sense who they were and their friendship dynamic & how it affected their relationship.

You really did not understand the episode….Leo did not ‘need proof’ he literally said himself that nothing happened that it was just King trying to mess with them. It’s not him being an ‘untrusting baby’ baby. That was the point of their fight at all.

I get what you mean and this is where I felt Mame wrote head to write herself into a corner a bit. I get what she’s trying to imply with these scenes because she had King say it himself - that when it comes to anything about Fiat, Leo loses all ability to think and just acts off emotions. However I think it’s the second kiss that causes issue because the girl has already shown herself to be a liar even if he gives in so why change it. I know this moment is more for Fiat to see but I think if they gad just adjusted the scene to be the girl leaning in to take a kiss rather than Leo once again willingly bending. This would’ve still allowed for the Fiat catches affect and also would’ve allowed for Kings setup still (as the second kiss was only plotted by king so that Fiat would catch them get upset and then they have Leo catch Fiat with him as if it’s some kind of revenge). but I think just that small shift of just having Leo stand there stiff instead of just giving in - It’s a small change but could’ve made a big difference for the audience.

Yeah I’ve seen ppl ride Leo really hard and it’s like - he messed up 1 time and it wasn’t exactly huge. People are mad at Mame for giving him a flaw but it’s like…that’s good writing. Humans are flawed creatures. And it’s not out of nowhere - Leo has had emotional outburst like this a time or two now. I think people were just ok before because they agreed with it and this time they don’t. Personally I don’t think it’s fair for us to spend the entire situation dealing with Fiats problems and coming to understand his flaws but the moment the writer presents the same of Leo for one episode it’s like all hell breaks loose.

I think a lot of people missed nuance in episode 11. A lot of people don’t seem to understand WHY Leo responded the way he did & why Fiat didn’t say ‘well you did this and I was hurt but didn’t get mad at you!’

This episode was really about how their past as friends were different experiences for them both ands had different affect on them. When Fiat sees Leo kissing the girl he knows it’s for a reason and not that Leo wants to cheat on him but it still hurts him and he ask himself why several times. Well it’s because he’s never had to see that before. He’s always lived in a reality where he never had to ‘share’ Leo because even when they were friends Leo was all about him & never had any types of romantic or s€xual relations. So seeing this is like a shock to his system so to speak. It’s a realization that this is what it would feel like if Leo had chosen to be with someone else. This is an important realization because it’s the pain that Leo lived with for several years. So put a pin in that!

So when Leo sees Fiat with King he knows it’s just King trying to mess with them, he doesn’t think anything has happened but he’s upset because it brings back the pain of what he felt before. It brings back that fear that has sat with him (not dealt with) all this time - that image of Fiat being able to be with someone else and possibly happy. In the scene Leo says that he could handle it when they were friends (seeing Fiat with someone) but that he can’t now & that he’s so mad that he doesn’t want to look at Fiat. Not because he thinks something actually happened but because he doesn’t understand why Fiat would even go see King, drink, yada yada ya. What he’s basically saying here is that he’s mad at Fiat for making him contend with that pain again. The pain of the idea of him even being with someone else. And this is what makes him the hypocrite because he put himself into a situation that allowed Fiat to feel pain.

However it’s not about that - that’s just the reality of us finally seeing Leo be human with flaws and another reminder that he lets those emotions get the better of him. This is why Fiat doesn’t do a fit for tat - remember that pin I told you to make about Fiat having a realization about pain, well this is where it comes into play because Fiats response to Leo before he walks out the door is an apology for the pain he’s cost Leo because he understands now what the last few years for Leo was like. If watching Leo kiss someone one time when he knew it wasn’t ‘real’ what was it like for Leo who had done it for years.

The episode also went over how Leo has caused his own pain - he loves Fiat a lot everyone knows that but he tries to satisfy him too much and never is selfish or thinks about his own emotional well being & this stops him from pursuing what he wants with Fiat (it’s why they stayed friends for 20 years because he thought Fiat just wanted to be friends so he did everything he could to stay in that lane - exactly what he resorts back to this episode despite being torn up). The point of this episode was for Leo. Leo has spent the whole season focusing on helping Fiat get healthy and grow self love/worth. They focused on how Fiats past affected Fiat & never dealt with how it truly affected Leo and this episode we got to see those lingering effects come into play. It’s not about Leo being bad or Fiat being bad - it’s just them having to now deal with Leo’s fears, insecurities and mishaps. This is why his brother is constantly trying to talk sense into him this episode because somewhere along the line he’s forgotten his own self worth. He’s spent years being angry and doing things that causes him pain and if he really wants a relationship he has to work through that.

I don’t know why it’s surprising. This is not her first series where she showed change - TharnType season 2 was.

I disagree completely. I think it made absolute sense for Leo to respond this way and it is one of the things that show that Mame has grown as a writer. Until this point Leo had almost been caricature- this is the first time we got to see him be raw with emotions & flawed as he presented an insecurity that had only peeked through a time or two until this moment.
I give more context to this in my take on the episode, but I def think this was one of the best pieces she did even despite writing herself into a corner a bit with the whole blackmail kiss 🙄