lop

"Strange idioms" and "novel word choices" that make sense within its context usually. Yours is just crude, insensitive, and most importantly doesn't even make sense. It's especially ironic when you're presenting yourself as some defender of Korean celebrities against the vitriol of K-netz while you speak worse and more unhinged than they do.

Can you use proper English instead of making up strange idioms? What do you mean by my having a miscarriage over the post? That I am overreacting? Not at all, I am simply arguing for why I agree this site shouldn't just randomly post about Kpop artists.

I don't see why there must be a torrent for people to issue a criticism. We are saying we don't believe these types of news are appropriate for the site so please leave it at this.

Of course, the subject is still open for discussion which is why I am rebutting the counterarguments.

Kpop artists are also "KOREAN" celebrities. That doesn't mean this site just covers all Korean celebrities.

She has a MDL page because she went on various variety shows to promote herself and her brand. Maybe if she becomes an actress down the line, and the news relates to her being an actress, she can be included like so many other K-pop artist turned actor who are mentioned here. However, you cannot claim she's an actress for featuring on some random HBO show and various variety shows for the reasoning I provided down below. Because by that logic, many other Kpop artists would fit the criteria and this site will become some hodgepodge of K-pop and Asian film/drama related news, as if we already didn't have enough problems of categorization already as it is.

But even on the variety shows, she's there as a K-pop artist, not as a variety show entertainer and types like those where it might be more natural to have news about them. In other words, we can apply your logic to so many K-pop artists and groups like StrayKids or Ateez, and it should be obvious the criticisms will ring true that this will become mykpoplist if that happened. Idk why BP/Jennie is the exception.

Because Ma Dong Seok is a Korean actor with a Korean filmography heading into an international project. We aren't getting random news about Steven Yeun's Hollywood projects for example.

Toffee already addressed this and said The Idol doesn't even have a MDL page. Why doesn't MDL start giving us entertainment news about Western celebrities then rather than news about Western celebrities who are related to an Asian film/drama?

After getting jail time and taking more than 10 years to return to a more leading role where his entire career after the controversy has been a support or co-lead role. This also happened way before the Me Too movement where people became extra careful about stuff like this.

Why aren't you trying to cancel celebrities like Jerry Seinfield, Brad Pitt, Johnny Depp, and far more for their underaged girlfriends and boyfriends as adults?
Why aren't you trying to cancel actors like Jared Leto, who was called out for much worse during the Me Too movement and is still facing claims today?

No, Korean stars don't become one overnight even with good connections. Korean entertainment is so competitive that good connections get your foot in the door. For example, Park Hyung Sik comes from a wealthy family. It took him about 7 years for a leading role. Same with Lee Yi Kyung. Same with Choi Si Won. Lee Min Jung. The list goes on.

Unless a celebrity becomes an overnight sensation, which is a very rare phenomena, it would be very obvious if the industry keeps pushing certain stars who don't really reflect the public opinion. So, the alternative course is to make the people somewhat familiar with their faces and have them develop their acting skills by experience, so that when they do eventually become "sensations," it's not ridiculously suspicious. That's what connections give you.

If she is very talented even among her peers, as you claim, she will likely have her shot at redemption.

Please don't lump harassment and criticism together. That's ridiculous.

Even if the country is free, Korea wasn't really able to punish Japanese collaborators due to its unique historical background. As a result, many collaborators maintained status quo and essentially were materially advantaged compared to Koreans who fought and resisted. Ha Young's great-grandfather was a also Korean elite and a collaborator, making him even more advantaged amongst collaborators. Then the descendants who inherited the ancestor's generational wealth became even more wealthy and used that wealth to erase and alter the ancestor's history. Ha Young, whether knowingly or unknowingly, got caught up in her family's deceit and ended up talking about her ancestor in positive light. When the truth was first unveiled, she and her agency tried to cover it up.

I highly doubt if the same situation happened to the Palestinian community, they would simply dismiss the situation as "it's only the ancestor's fault" and condemn Palestinians who feel uncomfortable supporting the actress because they don't think she represents their identity.

"I've seen some of the recent Korean coverage and comments, and some of it has gone straight to inciting violence against her."

Do you mean the coverage is inciting violence or the comments? If it's the comments, there's no need to respond. If it's the actual coverage, I would like the source.

"There might've been 2-3 close family members that knew about it, but generally those collaborators don't call for a family meeting and share. At least I don't think so. It defeats the purpose of secrecy..."
Not following your "logic" here. If they are Koreans who grew up under a Korean education system, there is no reason to believe they would still be collaborators lol.

The idea is suppose you knew the truth, and you see your naive, younger family member going out boasting about an ancestor that you know have darker ties in an interview broadcasted to the entire Korean population. It takes a lot of entitlement to assume it will be buried indefinitely. Therefore, you should warn her about it as soon as possible if you were a decent person at least. Not sure why you think that is "dumb logic." This wasn't a one time incident, where the parents/aunts/uncles/grandparents/cousins/etc just forgot to teach Ha Young her history and she went on one single interview and misspoke as you're making it out to be. There were multiple interviews and multiple chances for them to prevent this.

I don't care much. I don't have a personal vendetta against Ha Young nor am I trying to make this personal as you and many others are. I simply am presenting the best argument that I can think of on behalf of the Koreans because I do know Korean and do know Korean history. Of course, I don't know everything and assume I know everything, but I think I know enough so that I can defend a view that I see resonate by what K-netizens are actually saying, not what you guys think they are saying. This is why it appears to you like I am "forcing my views." I am responding to views that are popular misrepresentations and I am saying, here is a stronger argument, refute this instead of the arguments that you conjure up with zero context, zero knowledge, etc. especially when the moral stakes are so very low. The stakes are, a mega famous superstar with a wealthy family, and therefore multiple financial safety nets, is losing popularity for a reasonable reason. Of course, for many foreigners it doesn't seem reasonable, which is why I am having dialogues like these to bridge the gap of understanding. If you end up saying, ah I finally get an idea, but I will keep supporting Ha Young, then that'll be my cue to walk away. I am not responding to comments like these.

I don't know what your experience is, but if it's actually embarrassing, you looked at it positively, and you constantly shared this event or fact in a positive manner to various people, do you want for that truth to remain hidden even though it can, and likely does depending on the amount of people who hear it, end up revealing itself and hurting you instead? Among a small community like family, friends, or even a town, that's pretty common and kind of understandable. But to the general public?
If you do, then we can agree to disagree because probably our value systems diverge too much for us to have a reasonable dialogue.

Lol k

No need. It was hilarious while I was writing it 😂

If Koreans, including its news channels, are suggesting she boasted, but your argument is she didn't because from your perspective someone else had introduced the topic: rather than assuming the entire nation is wrong, how about considering that the concept of bragging and flex culture is different in Korea and the West? For example, there are many Korean expressions and idioms that suggest if someone praises themselves, it would be considered immodest (not in a serious way). That is why, culturally speaking, they often have someone else introduce the topic so that they can "naturally" brag about themselves. In this setting, what we would look at is not who introduced the topic, but how the topic was addressed. If they wanted to dismiss the topic, or move on from it, they would speak curtly. But clearly, Ha Young talked about her family lineage, especially her great grandfather, with great pride. She also knew her great grandfather treated Gojong because she mentioned it during her Trauma Center interview regardless of what she said in her more recent one.

As for the Anyang post, there is so much misinformation coming from your end. First, the blog was reported by a citizen reporter, not by the city official. The citizen submits articles for which the city showcases on their Naver blog which is basically like a FB post. In this case, Anyang didn't do a good job vetting their submission, which is why they are getting flack. Second, there is an English article by sedaily, which is perhaps what you are referring to, where the official says that Ahn's pro-Japanese ties weren't known at the time and he wasn't part of the collaborator list, which is true. However, they were listing him as an "independence fighter" on the Anyang article. Correct me if I'm wrong by providing sources, but none of the public information showcased him as an independence fighter either. He certainly wasn't on the list of independence fighters. So how in the hell did Anyang mistake him as one? It's a marker of incompetence, especially when the most notable public fact about him was his involvement to a rumor to have poisoned the emperor. And if the city official had actually "investigated" and fact checked by looking through the digital archives, as you and their article title had suggested, they would have found what the netizens found.

Finally, what is with foreigners constantly reframing this issue as though Koreans think Ha Young knew or not? There are discussions, speculations, and theories regarding whether she knew, but that isn't even the main argument. OP certainly did not say Ha Young definitely knew nor that she was morally responsible for her great grandpa. To argue that Koreans are saying she knew or are punishing her for her great grandpa is a ridiculous strawman. There aren't protest trucks against her, campaigns against her, and collective demands for her show to be removed. Her drama is still airing and is currently #2 worldwide on Netflix. People are simply outraged and she is facing public backlash. She is losing endorsement deals because those depend on her image. People have simply lost their support for her.

Accepting the premise that Ha Young didn't know, the question is, is it fair for Koreans to lose support of someone who had unintentionally offended them? I think so given the circumstances. Ha Young and her parents have gone on public to humble-brag their wealth and background. That ended up backfiring when the truth was shown that this wealth was brought up from bloody money. There can be various responses to this. Some can make weak inferences like what type of family would hide their dirty past yet reap the rewards for it so obnoxiously, and what sort of value system was Ha Young brought up in? Some can just drift their attention away from Ha Young to another celebrity, by the contrast effect, where they start paying attention to celebrities who did the opposite of what she did. We do this too in the West all the time. A quick example is Leo. People make all sorts of weak inferences that he's a groomer and a creep because of his age preference, the power dynamics, and the prevalent controversies surrounding Hollywood. People also are affected by the contrast effect when they highlight celebrities who have healthy relationships in the appropriate age range. Responses like these happen all the time in the West, except when Koreans do it, they are devils punishing their celebrities? Come on. And this is accepting the premise she never knew, when in reality, it is uncertain.

If you truly want to make sense of the issue, stop reframing it in a manner that only makes sense to you but villifies the opposite side. It would be like if I said, "Western fans need to stop punishing Leo. I genuinely can't make sense of people who think dating someone ages 19-25 is grooming them!" Even Western fans wouldn't be able to make sense of what I think their argument is because that isn't the argument.

You poor, illiterate child...

Yes, that's my opinion based on the Korean news and the Korean forums I come across describing the situation. Then, I further extrapolate my opinion using my knowledge of Korean history. I can also sniff-test your bullshit because the frequency for which I will across a comment like yours from an actual native Korean is very low, which is why I said you're clearly not Korean, as in, it is my opinion that you are highly unlikely Korean.

If you're arguing as though Koreans are some monolith and there are people trying to bestow an opinion that would reflect all Koreans as though one were some sort of king or a god of Koreans, then no one, including how I use the language, reflects that. If, you mean, how we normally use word in everyday speech of "speaking for Koreans" to have an opinionated view about Korea in a manner that exhudes credibility, then both your "opinion" and my "opinion" falls into this category, where the better "opinion" is the one that grasps the most context.

Well then, I don't know who you're talking to because I don't see anyone ever claiming their views are representing THE Korean opinion. It's simply everyone's own opinion or their opinion about what they think is the Korean opinion 🤡

How about you actually think about what you're arguing and what you're doing one step further?

Is your original comment only against very fringe examples where netizens announce they are Koreans (but are in fact foreigners) or non-Korean netizens who announce they are non-Koreans? A commentator who says, "As a Korean or non-Korean, blah blah blah?" I'll give you a little more credit (although maybe I shouldn't) and say you're a bit smarter than that.

You are probably criticizing people making blanketed opinions on behalf of Korean culture, without knowing the context, that can easily be construed as misinformation because it's by someone who is ignorant of the context. That's a very common and valid criticism. The problem is, your criticism applies to COMMENTS THAT LOOK EXACTLY LIKE YOURS.

Yes, and that's the problem you doofus. Your foreign opinion, construed as though it's coming from a Korean, is what YOU were criticizing as it's likely misinformation (which your "opinion" is). I am "parading" Koreans are offended BECAUSE THEY ARE OFFENDED AND IT'S ON THE KOREAN NEWS.

Riiiiight. After reading my "drivel" two people independently conjured up the same absurd interpretation from my drivel. It's sad that you probably don't even recognize how stupid you sound.