No lol White betrayed Sean. As if leaving bottles like that isn't an enough proof to put them all in trouble,…
With all due respect all you know about me is how I think about the fictional lives of these fictional characters which in no way gives you any insight into my views or actions when it comes to real-life issues at all. Sean and White's crisis is fictional. Empathising with either of them until I lose my mind will help no one in real life whatsoever. I empathise with both of their stances and experiences enough because my own life means I relate to them both in different ways. But they're still fictional. I'm plenty invested in real-life issues and take plenty of action based on empathy and rationality because both are appropriate to a reasonable degree.
I think you have convinced yourself that because Sean has suffered he should be allowed to be violent to innocent people who work for a company run by a man he hates, to potentially cause harm to people who happen to buy a drink he has had spiked and strangle his friend to the point of unconsciousness. That is not empathy. That is romanticising pain and grief to the point where only that one person's feelings and perspectives are valid, their behaviour is always justified and they have a halo because we live in a world that glorifies revenge as an end in and of itself. My views on the characters are informed by my views on real issues. Extending empathy only towards those who you have sympathy for and failing to extend any towards those who you disagree with is not constructive or even 'good' empathy. It leads to a lot of hate, violence, war, murder etc in the real world. I will not go into my own life too deeply but having a dad who died and having people to directly blame is not an unfamiliar thing to me at all. Believe me, I get it when it comes to Sean. But the fact that I can understand (and actually very deeply empathise with him) does not mean that I think his actions or planned actions are always morally or practically justifiable. White made a rational decision and his wrongfooting was to do it very late in the game.
As for the full-on real world this series alludes to, my views are informed by the way that I try to have rational empathy for people, excepting those I personally know and/or love. In other words, I try to have empathy for everyone to a similar degree because that is how I have learned to feel empathy so that it doesn't overwhelm me (which it frequently would otherwise) and so that I can constructively interact with people I disagree with. Empathy is useless if it's so selective that is fervently given to one but obstructively denied to another based on your own personal specific values or experiences. While watching the series I have empathy for side characters who get injured, empathy for characters whose experience I struggle to relate to and characters who get strangled for a difference of opinion (not to the point where I'm filled with emotion, they're fictional, but to a degree where I recognise their suffering). Those side characters would not be side characters in real life they would be real people with as much value as you or me so I extend the same amount of empathy as I would for anyone else. Selective empathy is a self-indulgent and lazy way people all too often convince themselves they are good people with a crap-ton of concern for others when it only extends to those they easily and naturally see themselves in. In other words, it is the sort of empathy that contributes to the divisiveness and conflict our world is experiencing on mass as it perpetuates the us v. them myth. It's empathy that is as easy as breathing. Diverse, far-reaching empathy is harder, a lot harder.
However, fictional stories are a way for me to open my mind a bit further and something to enjoy. I am someone who has worked in mental health, social care, refugee activism, deprived schools, homelessness/housing and studied political philosophy at university. With those experiences I have learned not only how useless 'empathy' can be but also how obstructive it can be to those who you are meant to (and want to) help because it becomes about you and how much you emotionally connect with the issue or people, not about the other people. I've seen people at work be selective about who they help first based solely on who they relate to (empathise with) most and I have definitely seen good people burn out and become ill or incompetent at their work because of emotional exhaustion.
In short, the real world is not empathy = good, rational = bad. The world is simply not that straightforward. It's basically just super complicated.
This series, however, is fiction.
I hope you will forgive my opinion here but I will say this. You seem to have endless empathy for Sean because he's had a difficult time. But the trauma of being separated from your twin and mother and then to nearly lose your twin to death while coping with the change of trying to impersonate him to discover who hurt him doesn't seem to evoke much empathy. You seem to forgive Sean's transgression of knocking three different people unconscious, possibly causing severe damage and stranging his friend to unconsciousness with remarkable ease. You blame White for everything (in spite of having no information as to where the story may go) rather than acknowledging they both made mistakes. In this episode, if this were a real event in the real world then Sean's actions are objectively worse than White's. Sean was aggressively, excessively, violent. White failed to pour the powder into the thing. Sean is clearly grappling with trauma, rage and grief. But it is no justification for his irrational and violent behaviour. And it is not like White isn't suffering too. I will not judge your views on reality based on your views on this series because this isn't reality. But do not think that an ability to empathise with a fictional character that has been written and performed to be sympathetic is an indication of how much empathy someone has or how much good they do in the real world. It isn't. The real world is much more complex and we all have our biases and perspectives which inform how we live in it. This is a TV series, not the real world and if people expend loads of emotional energy on these fictional characters they will have less to spare for people in the real world.
(If this were real though, White's plan would be much more likely to succeed in leading to change that will benefit many. Sean's plan is an emotional release for a small chunk of his anger and desire for revenge. In real life I would support White because I think it is better to see real change and a better world than to have one person make many suffer for the sake of their own personal revenge plot. I empathise with Sean's pain, but that does not mean I believe his actions are justifiable or that his plans will lead to a good direction of change.)
(I won't reply again as I have an early start tomorrow, but I hope you have a lovely morning/afternoon/evening/night wherever you are.) :)
No lol White betrayed Sean. As if leaving bottles like that isn't an enough proof to put them all in trouble,…
Altering consumables is illegal because things need to be tested and trialled. What is okay in a tiny lick by one person might be more dangerous when combined with other things and might provoke allergies etc. It's not as simple as 'White tried so it's fine'. I'm not saying Sean wanted to harm other people but the plan made that a real possibility. His plan was reckless. Even if it didn't happen the fact that it could would have made it possible for powerful rich people to discredit him as a threat to public health and safety.
As for the footage, that was Sean's job. He f*cked up there cause his emotions were too high and he lost control.
The fact that White has lived a privileged life does not negate his actions. He understands the privileged better than the others and therefore understands how to get the message across in the way that is most likely to be heard. Harming the general public in a misguided revenge plan is not the way to get it done. The fact that White does not have the thirst for revenge does not mean he disagrees with fighting inequality, it actually make him much less likely to act rashly, recklessly or carelessly.
It is not about Sean. It is about ideology, protest and a movement to oppose corruption. The fact that Sean's life has been touched by the corruption does not make his plans better than White's. It means he is more emotionally vulnerable to making mistakes. Sean's flaw is his thirst for revenge whatever the cost.
Also, sorry but White agrees with most of their ideology, it is their methodology he questions. With good reason. For things to change people should not be violent if it can be avoided because it is wrong and because it is so easy to negate their message. They are being self-indulgent with grand ideas about dying for revenge or whatever rather than living to create a better world.
But anyways lol. This is a work of fiction we don't need to get too riled up over it. This is quite successfully portraying the complexities of some of these issues. It is not black and white in real-life or in the series. While we are seeing the story through the lens of the experiences of Black/White and Sean mostly (along with some of the supporting characters) it's not really about them at all. Although, I understand why Sean felt betrayed, it is not about him and his suicide mission. He was not betrayed, it was not about him, it's about something more important; society. But I don't know what experiences you have while you're viewing it, so obvs you can see it as a betrayal if you'd like. :)
But I definitely agree on your point that this was the right choice for the future, while Sean can't see past…
Yeah for sure. They are definitely good at giving the lead-up for each major event in this series. The motivations for the characters are clear when it comes to these protests. You're so right though, it was hinted at throughout.
No lol White betrayed Sean. As if leaving bottles like that isn't an enough proof to put them all in trouble,…
I can tell this has you riled so please don't kill me for this reply. But the point I was making is Sean had shown he was genuinely afraid of what was happening (as White clearly was too) and the plan was never going to work. Messing with consumable products like food and drink is dangerous, it can make people ill, internally injured and could kill them. This series is addressing issues that go far beyond the interactions between a bl couple in the series. The group Black (and now White) is in is about change, protest, revolution. Sean is not in his right mind when it comes to Tawi, he needed White to make a different choice for the sake of the movement they're in and for the sake of protecting their necks. They want to fight the corruption and reveal it clearly to the public, they want change. Sean is hellbent on his suicide mission out of rage, grief and revenge. What White did was value Sean's life and the goal of social change over a revenge mission that would achieve nothing except alienate people who might sympathise with their cause and possibly get them killed and their names wiped from existence. They need to be tactical. It's not all about Sean's plan.
The recent protests in Thailand include the issues being addressed in this series. The second you fight those in power with actions that could be violent to innocent bystanders (including altering consumable goods) the powerful will immediately nullify your arguments with criticisms against your methods. The message will fall to the wayside as you get labelled 'terrorist', 'rioter', 'national traitor', 'criminal', 'gangster' etc. Sean is travelling in the direction of getting scapegoated and killed like his father and becoming a nameless criminal in the eyes of the public. The powerful will use you and your passion for change to justify their own power by making you a villain and themselves the hero that protects the public from these dangerous people.
What White did is cleverer and safer than Sean's plan. The thing that put them in danger was Sean responding with anger and slowing up the process of them leaving. I understand Sean's anger and probably a level of reignited rage and grief from the loss of his father but any feelings of betrayal from Sean towards White are unjustified. White made a decision that kept them safer, still damages the reputation of Tawi and spreads their message to the public properly. He did this all in the wake of Sean's near breakdown in the security room over what they were doing. It was the right decision and was not a betrayal of Sean. Sean was ready to die just to throw a punch at Tawi. White was unwilling to see Sean die and threw a punch at Tawi anyway.
The issues this series is grappling with are much more important than the ego or feelings of one individual character. While this series is clearly going to be a BL, the BL relationship is not the main focus, for good reason. These issues and protests are bigger than any individual character. Sean is in his own head too much. White is thinking more clearly. He did the right thing, even if it was technically against Sean's wishes.
Is it good to watch? should i watch it now or after all the episodes are aired?
It's def a good watch. I'd recommend starting to watch but I prefer watching series as they air. I also think this is the sort of series where it's prob more interesting to watch as it airs. But depends on your preference. Definitely worth the watch at some point though. It's so good.
White did not betray Sean. What White did was give a warning. He was sending a message to Tawi. As in 'I could put this in here, but I won't. This time.' He could choose to put the bitter powder in there and create problems for normal people who happen to be consumers. But he chose not to. This was not a betrayal of Sean. White cares about the outcome, the future. Sean cares about revenge, the past. White is in a unique position to understand Sean's grief because he is trying to find out what happened to his twin. After seeing everything Sean did (hurting staff) and then Sean's fears so plainly he chose to send a message rather than cause destruction because a peaceful message will spread more smoothly to the public than an aggressive one. The fire got publicised but the message didn't before. Sean wasn't thinking straight at all. White made a choice for Sean because Sean was not thinking about outcome at all. He was being careless with his fingerprints, with his harming of staff and had repeatedly made it clear that he would die for the sake of hurting Tawi. This is not someone thinking straight.
White helped. That's all. This is going to send a more powerful message to the public because it's clearly directed at Tawi. No blame can be laid on them for harming the public because they didn't.
Sean was being an idiot. He needed White to make that choice for him.
Anyways, wish episode 7 was out now lol. This is the first time I've caught the premiere of the episode. What a nice form of torture this week will be lol.
mf are you serious rn?? HE stabbed his GF 20 fucking times and you're blaming the victim??? get some help fr &…
Definitely not self-defense. But also, what do you mean 'having an attack'? Do you mean a manic episode? (If you do common symptoms are fast speech, sometimes slurred, impulsive behaviour such as spending a lot of money or running away, constantly jumping from one thought to another, racing thoughts, very occassionally some hallucinations (usually auditory), insomnia and extreme productivity in some activities, euphoria, feelings of grandiosity, delusions (usually of some sort of special quality ie you're a spy or an immortal or have some super power)). Do you mean a depressive episode? (If you do common symptoms are in many ways the opposite of the previous, feelings of self-hatred and inferiority, excessive sleep, high anxiety (sometimes), feelings of helplessness, extreme unproductivity (even getting out of bed is extremely difficult), self-harm, suicidal ideation and possible attempts, extreme lack of energy and lethargy.)
I don't know what you're talking about because 'having an attack' is not a phrase used in reference to bipolar disorder. Suggesting that because she had bipolar disorder and depression she must have been threatening him is incredibly offensive and shows very real ignorance. With both bipolar and depression a person is much more likely to be a threat to their own safety, health and wellbeing, not others, it is an outdated ignorance to think otherwise.
Also just wanna say based on the pictures of him in handcuffs clearly very soon after the murder (see this article: https://38jiejie.com/2021/08/06/thai-actor-toytoy-thanaphat-in-police-custody-for-stabbing-girlfriend-to-death/) he is not injured. Now if she had in fact been holding the knife, she would have been holding it from the handle in order for it to have been a threat to him. He would have had to take it from her forcibly from the knife side. He would have had serious injuries to his hands if that was the case. He doesn't. Even if it were true and he were wearing some sort of super gloves that protected his hands it is unreasonable to stab someone in self-defense when they have no weapon, which we can assume she didn't after he took the knife from her. She is unlikely to have been a significant threat to him after he had the knife and she didn't. (Just to be clear I believe he picked up the knife and chose to stab her many times, I do not believe she was ever holding the knife against him. I'm just explaining why it is not credible what he said.) Regardless of anything else, if someone is coming for you and you defend yourself with a knife by stabbing them, you would only need to stab them once to incapacitate them enough to escape. He stabbed her over 20 times according to the reports. That is stabbing with intent to kill. Whether it was rage or some sort of preplanned murder I do not know but at least in the moments he was stabbing her and likely at least a moment or two before he really intended to kill her.
There is, in conclusion, no way that this was self-defense. Her mental health has f*ck all to do with his actions. He is the killer according to his own account and just the situation at large. She is not responsible for him. He is a grown man and when a grown man stabs his girlfriend more than 20 times until she has died we call them a murderer.
Properly hate the ignorant ableist nonsense of anyone suggesting that she must have been dangerous because *gasp* did you hear? She's bipolar. She's crazy. He's the murderer and somehow is the less threatening one when framed in that way.
I think you have convinced yourself that because Sean has suffered he should be allowed to be violent to innocent people who work for a company run by a man he hates, to potentially cause harm to people who happen to buy a drink he has had spiked and strangle his friend to the point of unconsciousness. That is not empathy. That is romanticising pain and grief to the point where only that one person's feelings and perspectives are valid, their behaviour is always justified and they have a halo because we live in a world that glorifies revenge as an end in and of itself. My views on the characters are informed by my views on real issues. Extending empathy only towards those who you have sympathy for and failing to extend any towards those who you disagree with is not constructive or even 'good' empathy. It leads to a lot of hate, violence, war, murder etc in the real world. I will not go into my own life too deeply but having a dad who died and having people to directly blame is not an unfamiliar thing to me at all. Believe me, I get it when it comes to Sean. But the fact that I can understand (and actually very deeply empathise with him) does not mean that I think his actions or planned actions are always morally or practically justifiable. White made a rational decision and his wrongfooting was to do it very late in the game.
As for the full-on real world this series alludes to, my views are informed by the way that I try to have rational empathy for people, excepting those I personally know and/or love. In other words, I try to have empathy for everyone to a similar degree because that is how I have learned to feel empathy so that it doesn't overwhelm me (which it frequently would otherwise) and so that I can constructively interact with people I disagree with. Empathy is useless if it's so selective that is fervently given to one but obstructively denied to another based on your own personal specific values or experiences. While watching the series I have empathy for side characters who get injured, empathy for characters whose experience I struggle to relate to and characters who get strangled for a difference of opinion (not to the point where I'm filled with emotion, they're fictional, but to a degree where I recognise their suffering). Those side characters would not be side characters in real life they would be real people with as much value as you or me so I extend the same amount of empathy as I would for anyone else. Selective empathy is a self-indulgent and lazy way people all too often convince themselves they are good people with a crap-ton of concern for others when it only extends to those they easily and naturally see themselves in. In other words, it is the sort of empathy that contributes to the divisiveness and conflict our world is experiencing on mass as it perpetuates the us v. them myth. It's empathy that is as easy as breathing. Diverse, far-reaching empathy is harder, a lot harder.
However, fictional stories are a way for me to open my mind a bit further and something to enjoy. I am someone who has worked in mental health, social care, refugee activism, deprived schools, homelessness/housing and studied political philosophy at university. With those experiences I have learned not only how useless 'empathy' can be but also how obstructive it can be to those who you are meant to (and want to) help because it becomes about you and how much you emotionally connect with the issue or people, not about the other people. I've seen people at work be selective about who they help first based solely on who they relate to (empathise with) most and I have definitely seen good people burn out and become ill or incompetent at their work because of emotional exhaustion.
In short, the real world is not empathy = good, rational = bad. The world is simply not that straightforward. It's basically just super complicated.
This series, however, is fiction.
I hope you will forgive my opinion here but I will say this. You seem to have endless empathy for Sean because he's had a difficult time. But the trauma of being separated from your twin and mother and then to nearly lose your twin to death while coping with the change of trying to impersonate him to discover who hurt him doesn't seem to evoke much empathy. You seem to forgive Sean's transgression of knocking three different people unconscious, possibly causing severe damage and stranging his friend to unconsciousness with remarkable ease. You blame White for everything (in spite of having no information as to where the story may go) rather than acknowledging they both made mistakes. In this episode, if this were a real event in the real world then Sean's actions are objectively worse than White's. Sean was aggressively, excessively, violent. White failed to pour the powder into the thing. Sean is clearly grappling with trauma, rage and grief. But it is no justification for his irrational and violent behaviour. And it is not like White isn't suffering too. I will not judge your views on reality based on your views on this series because this isn't reality. But do not think that an ability to empathise with a fictional character that has been written and performed to be sympathetic is an indication of how much empathy someone has or how much good they do in the real world. It isn't. The real world is much more complex and we all have our biases and perspectives which inform how we live in it. This is a TV series, not the real world and if people expend loads of emotional energy on these fictional characters they will have less to spare for people in the real world.
(If this were real though, White's plan would be much more likely to succeed in leading to change that will benefit many. Sean's plan is an emotional release for a small chunk of his anger and desire for revenge. In real life I would support White because I think it is better to see real change and a better world than to have one person make many suffer for the sake of their own personal revenge plot. I empathise with Sean's pain, but that does not mean I believe his actions are justifiable or that his plans will lead to a good direction of change.)
(I won't reply again as I have an early start tomorrow, but I hope you have a lovely morning/afternoon/evening/night wherever you are.) :)
As for the footage, that was Sean's job. He f*cked up there cause his emotions were too high and he lost control.
The fact that White has lived a privileged life does not negate his actions. He understands the privileged better than the others and therefore understands how to get the message across in the way that is most likely to be heard. Harming the general public in a misguided revenge plan is not the way to get it done. The fact that White does not have the thirst for revenge does not mean he disagrees with fighting inequality, it actually make him much less likely to act rashly, recklessly or carelessly.
It is not about Sean. It is about ideology, protest and a movement to oppose corruption. The fact that Sean's life has been touched by the corruption does not make his plans better than White's. It means he is more emotionally vulnerable to making mistakes. Sean's flaw is his thirst for revenge whatever the cost.
Also, sorry but White agrees with most of their ideology, it is their methodology he questions. With good reason. For things to change people should not be violent if it can be avoided because it is wrong and because it is so easy to negate their message. They are being self-indulgent with grand ideas about dying for revenge or whatever rather than living to create a better world.
But anyways lol. This is a work of fiction we don't need to get too riled up over it. This is quite successfully portraying the complexities of some of these issues. It is not black and white in real-life or in the series. While we are seeing the story through the lens of the experiences of Black/White and Sean mostly (along with some of the supporting characters) it's not really about them at all. Although, I understand why Sean felt betrayed, it is not about him and his suicide mission. He was not betrayed, it was not about him, it's about something more important; society. But I don't know what experiences you have while you're viewing it, so obvs you can see it as a betrayal if you'd like. :)
The recent protests in Thailand include the issues being addressed in this series. The second you fight those in power with actions that could be violent to innocent bystanders (including altering consumable goods) the powerful will immediately nullify your arguments with criticisms against your methods. The message will fall to the wayside as you get labelled 'terrorist', 'rioter', 'national traitor', 'criminal', 'gangster' etc. Sean is travelling in the direction of getting scapegoated and killed like his father and becoming a nameless criminal in the eyes of the public. The powerful will use you and your passion for change to justify their own power by making you a villain and themselves the hero that protects the public from these dangerous people.
What White did is cleverer and safer than Sean's plan. The thing that put them in danger was Sean responding with anger and slowing up the process of them leaving. I understand Sean's anger and probably a level of reignited rage and grief from the loss of his father but any feelings of betrayal from Sean towards White are unjustified. White made a decision that kept them safer, still damages the reputation of Tawi and spreads their message to the public properly. He did this all in the wake of Sean's near breakdown in the security room over what they were doing. It was the right decision and was not a betrayal of Sean. Sean was ready to die just to throw a punch at Tawi. White was unwilling to see Sean die and threw a punch at Tawi anyway.
The issues this series is grappling with are much more important than the ego or feelings of one individual character. While this series is clearly going to be a BL, the BL relationship is not the main focus, for good reason. These issues and protests are bigger than any individual character. Sean is in his own head too much. White is thinking more clearly. He did the right thing, even if it was technically against Sean's wishes.
White helped. That's all. This is going to send a more powerful message to the public because it's clearly directed at Tawi. No blame can be laid on them for harming the public because they didn't.
Sean was being an idiot. He needed White to make that choice for him.
Anyways, wish episode 7 was out now lol. This is the first time I've caught the premiere of the episode. What a nice form of torture this week will be lol.
I don't know what you're talking about because 'having an attack' is not a phrase used in reference to bipolar disorder. Suggesting that because she had bipolar disorder and depression she must have been threatening him is incredibly offensive and shows very real ignorance. With both bipolar and depression a person is much more likely to be a threat to their own safety, health and wellbeing, not others, it is an outdated ignorance to think otherwise.
Also just wanna say based on the pictures of him in handcuffs clearly very soon after the murder (see this article: https://38jiejie.com/2021/08/06/thai-actor-toytoy-thanaphat-in-police-custody-for-stabbing-girlfriend-to-death/) he is not injured. Now if she had in fact been holding the knife, she would have been holding it from the handle in order for it to have been a threat to him. He would have had to take it from her forcibly from the knife side. He would have had serious injuries to his hands if that was the case. He doesn't. Even if it were true and he were wearing some sort of super gloves that protected his hands it is unreasonable to stab someone in self-defense when they have no weapon, which we can assume she didn't after he took the knife from her. She is unlikely to have been a significant threat to him after he had the knife and she didn't. (Just to be clear I believe he picked up the knife and chose to stab her many times, I do not believe she was ever holding the knife against him. I'm just explaining why it is not credible what he said.) Regardless of anything else, if someone is coming for you and you defend yourself with a knife by stabbing them, you would only need to stab them once to incapacitate them enough to escape. He stabbed her over 20 times according to the reports. That is stabbing with intent to kill. Whether it was rage or some sort of preplanned murder I do not know but at least in the moments he was stabbing her and likely at least a moment or two before he really intended to kill her.
There is, in conclusion, no way that this was self-defense. Her mental health has f*ck all to do with his actions. He is the killer according to his own account and just the situation at large. She is not responsible for him. He is a grown man and when a grown man stabs his girlfriend more than 20 times until she has died we call them a murderer.
Properly hate the ignorant ableist nonsense of anyone suggesting that she must have been dangerous because *gasp* did you hear? She's bipolar. She's crazy. He's the murderer and somehow is the less threatening one when framed in that way.