Bellule

I think kaeng meant that the soul of Naksu, the one we got to call Mudeok would be the true daughter of the Jin family. As if her soul had been shifted from firth or something and that Naksu should have been the Jin family's daughter. And then the soul of the Jin family's daughter should have been in the body of Naksu from birth. I don't know if I make sense, I'm just trying to understand what he meant.

No offense but I'd rather have Peng Xiao Ran or Zhao Li Ying or Li Qin or Wu Jin Yan play the FL. I just don't think Meng Zi Yi is made for that character. She was great in Legend of Two Sisters in The Chaos but I don't think she fits the description of Hua Liu Li. (And I say that after reading chapters of the book it's from) She just doesn't look frail enough. Of course maybe I'm wrong and she will do Hua Liu Li justice but to me if a character is meant to be able to pretend so blatantly to be sick and coughing blood then the actress playing that character should look frail or have softer traits. Anyway, I hope this drama delivers great results. I have been looking out for this one for so long already (always looking out for Jeremy Tsui's works)

First of all, I love being able to bond over things like drama so thank you for being alive. Please don't ever die. You are such a precious soul.

On my grandmother: oh god I love that woman. She isn't perfect, far from it but I would die for her. She raised me because my mother and my father really weren't meant to ever have children and were still acting like they didn't have any. She wasn't always like ShaoShang's mother. When my grandfather was still alive, she used to be a sweet and caring woman but never one to cry. After my grandfather's passing, she became someone else. She only cried once, in her room all alone in their -once their but not anymore- king sized bed, after the funeral was over and knowing -believing- no one would ever know because everybody else was already sleeping - or should have been but I wasn't, couldn't and I never told any member of my family about it (didn't even tell her I knew it happened. She would never be the same afterwards and everybody could tell. My grandmother was never one to cry or show any type of emotion. She raised herself and her ten brothers and sisters and never knew how to depend or rely on anyone else but herself. She didn't have the leisure to show love or affection because she had to make sure they would survive first.

Understanding were she came from and her upbringing is already a huge thing to do. Being the sensible person I am and always was - if I should give myself any credit that would be it- I never once made her angry intentionally nor did I make things hard for her. She raised me, my brother and my sisters by herself and never once complained. She was tough, swore and didn't know how to be the sweet and caring grandmother she had become after meeting my grandfather, the one we, her grandchildren had always known her to be.

Things weren't always easy and she did physically punish us (my grandfather used to so it wasn't anything new really). Still I loved and understood her and our days back then were mostly happy. We didn't get physically punished that often (she mostly shouted and threw things after us, never really trying to hurt anyone, - I can pledge that that woman knows how to shoot whenever she wants to but we just weren't her targets- just needing to vent her anger, we were children and liked to do a lot of dumb and dangerous things , putting ourselves in harm's way and our lives at risk- and she was fair and right in doing so. We needed to know just how upset and frightened we had made her, in order for us to call it quit -it went on for a while but eventually we stopped before getting ourselves killed or hurt too badly or getting our asses whipped out of our bodies and to the outer space. She always pushed us to our full potential, knowing and believing we could and would do better than our parents did because she really didn't want the circle to repeat itself.

More shitty situations happened along the way, that's life after all, and my mother ended up moving out with my sisters and my brother. I felt horrible because I knew what type of life my siblings were living, having to parent our mother and do labour jobs to make sure they had a roof over their heads and food in their plates. My grandmother did help my mother financially but she used the money to party and live her life with her friends. (I do love my mother now mostly because I try to forgive and forget but the Lord knows how awful she was back then).

I went through puberty, of course and things started to go south with my grandmother mainly because of the guilt of knowing the hard life my siblings were living when I lived in a big empty house (we had 25 cats plus chicken and a dog but were the two lonely souls haunting our house) with my grandmother. She understood me and felt horrible herself knowing the guilt I felt and so she sent me to live with my mother. We had our first big argument and were crying mostly because we knew I couldn't do it anymore but I just didn't want to leave her alone.

I lived with my siblings for a while and we managed to survive for a while but my mother didn't change her ways and kept putting our lives in danger. We (my sisters, my brother and I) moved back with my grandmother and graduated high school -my little sister is graduating next year- with flying colors.

So yes, my grandmother is far from perfect, knows way too many ways to swear both politely and colorfully but everyday I truly thank our fates, god, any deities there might be out there- for being able to be part of her grandchildren.

I over shared and can only apologize but it had to be said so you would understand were my point of view is coming from. (I didn't talk much about my father but he was as shitty as my mother used to be and basically up and left after my grandfather died)

Now back on track : I still believe ShaoShang 's father should be held responsible somehow. He did tell third uncle and aunt that when ShaoShang's mother used to punish soldiers one could only hear screams and cries coming from the place were the punishment was being held. One doesn't give another a rod expecting not to get beaten up. Believing so is foolishness. Plus he knew she was mad at ShaoShang after receiving the letter from Old Madam Wan. Now, I know he wanted to use a tactic to make ShaoShang's mother's anger subdue but he knows their characters. They both are hard headed. He knew or should had known things could and would go south somehow.

I think we need to give a lot more credit to ShaoShang. She held her position and her beliefs and was already ready to receive punishment anyway. I think it's sad that her father stopped the beatings because I am pretty sure ShaoShang's mother would have given in. (She would and she did feel guilty afterwards, otherwise she wouldn't have gone out to see ShaoShang off.) She didn't show herself and let ShaoShang know that she was sending her off, not out of ego but because she knew how wrong she had been and couldn't face her and back off anymore. She wanted ShaoShang to learn her lesson even if it meant letting their relationship sour even more.

I understand what you mean when you talk about parents understanding their children but not all parents know our to treat their children. It's all the more true in that situation because she knows ShaoShang never truly saw her as her mother or at least she feels so. Again, ShaoShang's mother is trying, not to make her conform but to undo or right the education -if any- ShaoShang received from her second aunt. It is out of guilt and resentment towards herself. ShaoShang represent everything she did wrong, everything she failed and ShaoShang's mother knows how much she failed her daughter. Maybe you can't see it the way I do but I did see ShaoShang's mother's pain and sorrow.

ShaoShang knows fully well what her mother feels. She pushes her buttons when she mentions how the second aunt raised her and what she likes. We have to give ShaoShang that.

Both mother and daughter want to reach out but can't close the gap of lost time, resentment and pain - they need a lot of both one on one therapy and family therapy. ShaoShang's mother tries to reach out to her by telling her our to behave and what she expects out of her and but showering Cheng Yang with love and affection whenever she does what she -as a daughter of a prominent family- is supposed to do. She isn't doing so because she wants ShaoShang to feel jealous but as a way of showing her that she can be affectionate and loving under those conditions. (You may think parent-child love should be unconditional but it is indeed more sane for it to be conditional. It assures that children don't go south unless they want to feel deserted and undeserving of love or just get physically punished or become vagabond - again I was raised with tough love but I was still willful).

ShaoShang tries to reach out by making efforts to please her mother and when she can't, she tries to find love in her third uncle and aunt. However ShaoShang did say at some point that rather than try to please people she knew expected things or behaviors that weren't ones she identified as hers, she would rather be herself because she can't fail expectations she set for herself.

On ShaoShang's mother making her leave with her third uncle and aunt : both ShaoShang and her mother were hurt. ShaoShang 's mother (just like my grandmother back then) realized that they couldn't go on like that anymore. She made her leave because she knew ShaoShang had to make her own mistakes and learn by herself. She set her free knowing she would come back maybe not soon, but she would eventually. (The trailers for the upcoming episodes go in that sense). ShaoShang's mother knew the gap of the years of absence, resentment, hurt, pain, sorrow and longing couldn't be closed anymore. She let go. She knew the more they both tried to close the gap, the more hurt they would get and they shouldn't try anymore.

Ugh I didn't finish what I meant to say but basically yes. (I finally found how to edit a post hehe)

Again thank you for being alive. I hope we can keep conversing as the show goes on. Again I over shared but bear with me. I can swear on my grandmother that if it made you feel awful I won't do it anymore. (I lost the entirety of the post once already and had to re-write all of it so maybe I forgot things I meant to say but if so it only means they weren't important enough). I realize I basically wrote a whole book by myself while only trying to converse with you😭. I was supposed to watch ADoS and lost count of time writing and re-writing that post, trying to leave as little typos and mistakes as possible (it's been two hours now)

I think I could rant and rant for days on how much I love this drama. I'm thinking of watching in again (4th time already). I love how Cheng Ming Lan and Gu Ting Ye love each other. They respect and understand each other so much. He was always on her side and so was she. I tried to pinpoint exactly when he fell for her but I couldn't. The first time he felt something for her was when his concubine betrayed him and left with his son and she sent him food through her brother. Before that he respected her a lot already. He was the one who said she was listening to the others's back and forth while knowing they were wrong all along. ( I'm talking about when the teacher asked their points of view on the situation with the emperor not having a heir and which prince should be crowned, the capable one or the oldest). He was the only one who knew she would be the one making sense of the situation while Yuan Ruin didn't expect her to be intelligent enough. Yuan Ruo didn't really know her or like her at all. He liked the idea of her, the idea that she was fragile and beautiful, but he never respected her enough. When she told him he wasn't behaving in a proper way and she would get criticized for trying to raise in status by being with him, he didn't consider it seriously. She went through so much because of him and still trying to give him his chance but he let her down, again and again. He married someone else when Gu Ting Ye (already in love with Cheng Ming Lan) told him he would barge into the Prince's Manor and get his father out or kidnap someone to pressure them to release his father. I mean seriously, if I had a friend, ready to do that for me I would jump on the occasion. But Yuan Ruo was a coward, he didn't fulfill his promises and blamed others for it. Gu Ting Ye scheming to finally be able to ask for Cheng Ming Lan's hand was everything. I mean the guy was on the battlefield but wouldn't let the one he loves get swept up by anyone else. Once he understood that Yuan Ruo really wouldn't be good to her, he manned up and decided that even though he didn't feel like he was good enough for her, he would love her so much that she wouldn't be aggravated. The way he plotted against her, not letting her know what was going on when he got arrested was something else. The man really wasn't sure that she loved him back. He knew she was grateful for all the times he stood up for her and saved her and that she respected him but he couldn't feel her love. He was always afraid that she still loved Yuan Ruo.
Now talking about Ming Lan. Lord I love that woman. I fell in love with that character from the get go. She stood up for her brother and her family in the first episode, stood up for her mother, for her mother's maid. Basically, she stood up for everyone. I also loved her relationship with her grandmother. They both understood each other on a deeper level than anyone else in the household. She asked for forgiveness from her grandmother even before she was sure that the concubine who killed her mother, had died. She stood up for her grandmother, all the while being pregnant, when her grandmother was poisoned. And she was so sad when she realized that her grandmother knew all along that the Main Madam had poisoned her. I was crying so much through those episodes. My poor heart couldn't. Cheng Ming Lan was so brave when the palace got surrounded and when she met Gu Ting Ye and asked him to come back alive and he said with someone like her waiting for him he would make sure to make it back. My little heart melted. Those two were so cheesey that even others knew what was going on.
Now on Gu Ting Ye 's "Mother" (his father's third wife and his little brother's mother) I despised her so much. That woman was evil. Even Gu Ting Ye's concubine was bad, betraying him, leaving with his son, blaming him for his son's death and trying to kill their daughter. Still I felt like that concubine wasn't as bad as Gu Ting Ye 's Mother. Damn that lady was the devil's spawn. She really couldn't let go of his birth mother marrying his father and her sister dying because of it. I could understand her resentment up to some point but really, Gu Ting Ye's birth mother was a victim of the Gu family. Just like the first wife was a victim too. The Gu family was in a bad place and needed money and Gu Ting Ye's father, although he loved his wife dearly, felt cornered between saving his family and betraying his wife but marrying someone else. I am not justifying what he did but I could understand him too. He had no choice but to divorce and his first wife was so heartbroken that she killed herself. Gu Ting Ye 's oldest brother wasn't a monster but he had been blinded by his aunt / Mother in law so much that he could only realize it too late. His resentment towards Gu Ting Ye was all for nothing. Both Gu Ting Ye's father and his oldest brother asked him what choice he would make if he had to. Would he betray his wife for the family's sake or would he die with her and their whole family. Although he said he would never get himself in that situation (and he really didn't since it was all a plot against the Queen dowager) he did choose to ask her for a divorce because he knew in that situation she needed to be protected first. hen Cheng Ming Lan said that if they ever got a divorce she would get married to someone else and never go back to him, he was quick to let it go.
Now the Queen dowager situation. Really, what in the hell was wrong with her? I understand that she didn't want the new emperor to disrespect her and the late emperor by giving a title to his dead parents but she went way too far. She couldn't trust him enough to understand that he respected her and wouldn't be a threat to her safety. She would rather have a rebellion and put herself in the very situation that she despised and that got her husband on his last breath rather than let it go. Damn that woman was crazy. Also, I loved the new empress, she was very humble and understanding, even when her husband treated her like crap.

You can add The Autumn Ballad to your list. It wasn't as good as the Story of Ming Lan (what drama can be, seriously I can't find one) but the Autumn Ballad was great although the ending felt rushed, the main leads had a great understanding of each other but didn't like each other at first, mainly because the ML couldn't understand why the FL had to be so cunning but once he understood her he was so ready to protect her (and jealous that she didn't consider him as a potential husband). He did wrong her first and it made her think of him as untrustworthy but she understood him after some time. Also the FL had a puppy love and the ML was so jealous at one point but the SML did something so bad and still wouldn't let go of the FL after wronging her like that (it made my blood boil). The FL's sister was so frail at first (but she wasn't brave enough to stand up for herself, letting others run her over and blaming others for doing better than her when she was at fault too) and become heartless (well the FL wasn't flawless either and the SFL got raped, to be fair (not that getting rape can be one's fault but she pushed others aside and got herself in a situation where no one knew where she was or cared enough) and become so ruthless and calculating that I couldn't stand her at some point). To sum up, great historical drama. You should give it a shot if you didn't already.

Princess Agents wasn't bad either, I don't get why it doesn't get the praise it deserves. I mean the CGI of the wolves in the first episode was bad but I've seen worst already and it was the first episode only. The betrayal in Princess Agents was on point. The heartbreaks too. I still can't let go of how the FL misunderstood the ML until the end. That drama broke me. The SML was so pitiful at one point, mostly when his family got hunted and killed on the pretense of rebelling when truly the king wasn't confident enough and was getting blinded by his consort and his jealousy. The FL was brave but unforgiving, still she couldn't get rid of her true feelings for the ML even when she thought he had betrayed her and his best friend (the SML). The FL and the ML bickering was so funny and he trained her to make her stronger. I could feel his love for her and her love for him (no matter how hard she tried not to give hints). I wasn't satisfied with the ending because it felt rushed (58 or so, episodes but the ending still wasn't it.) I am not saying that because the ML died (big spoiler and not sure he died for real) but the FL story wasn't wrapped up. We still don't know why her family didn't want her and all her flashbacks seemed to point to a whole story that wasn't explored enough. Still waiting for a second season that I know won't happen but let me be hopeful while knowing it's all for nothing (that's what I do).
I know I am going to rewatch them already.
I didn't finish The Legends (dunno why, seriously beat me) it had a good start but I just couldn't.
General's lady I just didn't like the subtitles, it got on my nerves and the acting was meh but I will try again.

The Sword and the brocade was good but when I was watching it, it was still airing and I just wasn't patient enough to wait for episodes but I will watch it again. Plus the misunderstanding between the ML and the FL didn't do it for me, I understand the jealousy he felt because of the SML but I didn't feel the love between the FL and the ML.

I did watch the Long Ballad but the FL got on my nerves, really. I couldn't watch it to the end. She (the FL) was so conceited that I ended up liking the SFL more and more. Her story line become more interesting and she showed true growth. Her love arch with the guard was everything. I held on this drama because of them, really. He hated her at first for being a brat but protected her and loved her dearly when she went through her ordeals, looking for her everywhere.

I couldn't watch The Rebel Princess till the end, fist because I needed a pause when the FL and the ML started having problems because of the herbs he made her take without her knowing it prevented pregnancy (even when I knew he did it for her sake I just couldn't deal with the heartbreak and betrayal that were on the way. Plus the drama disappeared for some time on Viki's catalogue for my country.) I will give it another shot because I did like the other prince cunningness and the revolt he prepared for so long. The scriptwriters were really great so I should watch it to it's end.

The Story of Yanxia's Palace was amazing. So much so that I downloaded the ost. However I didn't watch the last few remaining episodes because the more the FL and the emperor got along the more outraged I felt. I couldn't forget the former empress and how deeply sad I felt and how I related to her sorrow. She lost her child then she got pregnant again and was plotted against and betrayed by the one that would become the next empress (I mean I get that the empress should have helped the then concubine when her family was prosecuted but she couldn't meddle in politics and national's affairs), the concubine that used to be her confident plotted and killed her son and her own maid slept with her husband (the emperor) and got herself pregnant to get back at her own husband for loving someone else. I just couldn't get past her death and see the FL become happy with the emperor after knowing how he betrayed her once mistress and friend (the late empress). Also, the FL knew her love interest only married someone else because the emperor forced him to. The SML literally had to choose between the FL life and him getting married to someone else. How could she love the emperor regardless of him making her once mistress miserable and making her love interest marry another? I couldn't. I felt betrayed in the late empress's place.
Fiou...I poured my heart in this post 😂😅 bear with me please.

I understand where you might think so however I think differently. I thing the mother is going so harshly at her not only because she resent herself for abandoning ShaoShang but also for lacking as her mother. I know it can seem hard to understand but whenever she looks at her daughter she is reminded of her failures. She abandoned her and not her brother because she knew the second aunt would try to adopt the son if she left him behind. I think it's hard to understand unless you were raised by someone with that mentality (I was raised by my wonderful grandmother who has that mentality and is harsh on those she loves the most).
The mother and ShaoShang have almost the same personality, the mother was ruthless enough to abandon her daughter for the greater plan of getting rid of the second aunt and ShaoShang was cunning enough to ruin the second aunt plans, first when she tried to adopt her cousin and second when she tried to keep the main house.
On the matter of ShaoShang's education I think her mother is not wrong in trying to get her to learn fast. Be it to save her face, to be eligible for a great husband or to accomplish great things, ShaoShang needs to learn to write and to read. Her mother is ashamed of herself because she knows she let the second aunt get ShaoShang in such a bad state and she knows ShaoShang is a fast learner, she did praise her for the swing. The mother is at fault for not being considerate enough and realizing that she can't learn without help and tricks (like her brothers did).
On the matter of the writing desk I think the mother really was trying to give face to Cheng Yan because she knew she didn't want to make a ruckus and that her servants were only afraid of how she would be treated now that her mother (the second aunt) and father (second uncle) wouldn't be there to have her back. The servants knew how the second aunt treated ShaoShang and the animosity between the second aunt and ShaoShang's mother. The servants were afraid of retribution and ShaoShang's mother knew it, that's why she tried to brush it off and deal with them privately. I still understand why ShaoShang pushed the matter, she knew that if she let her mother deal with it privately the servants would continue to torment her. ShaoShang's mother is in a tough place because she can only be the villain. If she doesn't treat Cheng Yan as her daughter, other people will say she is getting revenge from her feud with the second aunt. Plus Cheng Yan is really a good person, even when ShaoShang's mother tried to find a fault in her (she let her manage the New Year's festivities) she couldn't find any.
Now about the pond and the bridge calamity and Cheng Yang getting pushed in the pond, ShaoShang's mother was punishing her because she knows how powerful the Princess's family is. She is afraid that by letting ShaoShang become someone who takes revenge in such way, she would cause a calamity that would get the family killed. Let's not forget how the Princess's mother was ready to get ShaoShang punished, being well aware that ShaoShang wasn't the only one at fault. If not for Long Bu Yi's intervention, ShaoShang wouldn't have gotten away with it. After the bridge incident's ShaoShang's mother knew that since Old Madam Wan knew the truth of the matter, it meant others could understand it as well and so she needed to punish ShaoShang because she wasn't careful enough and others needed to know she got punished so they wouldn't try to punish her more. ShaoShang's mother didn't mean to beat her up, she wanted her to admit that she shouldn't have done it but ShaoShang kept her position and her mother couldn't let her defy her. It was a power play and neither one was ready to back up.
Both mother and daughter are alike, however ShaoShang gets revenge too publicly and wronging those who wronged her when her mother makes others wrong her so much and publicly that no one can fault her for getting back at her tormentors. I think people who watched The Story of Ming Lan would understand my point of view. ShaoShang's mother is just like Ming Lan, she makes people make mistakes and wrong her so she can get her revenge but ShaoShang is like the Main Madam (the wife of Ming Lan's father). Ming Lan and her grandmother always said that the Main Madam couldn't judge clearly what the concubine was trying to make her do. The Main Madam and ShaoShang's are alike in that way, they get revenge when the one's whom wronged them were not held responsible, making them (the Main Madam and ShaoShang) who were victims in the first place, become the tormentors for getting back at them.
Let's not forget that it was ShaoShang's father plan in the fist place to frighten ShaoShang with such punishment, he should be held responsible for what happened afterwards. He knows his wife's and his daughter's personalities. He should have known that letting his wife have control of the punishment would lead to a catastrophe.
The third aunt and the third uncle are so cute and accepting of ShaoShang because they don't have a child and she is pitiful. They can only be on her side, just like ShaoShang's brothers Song and ShaoGong.
I'm getting back at what ShaoShang's mother said to the rest of the family (her husband and the third uncle and aunt) after she punished ShaoShang. She said they made her the villain and were now faulting her when they made her do it. She also said that as always they casted her aside and stood against her as one family. I think both ShaoShang and her mother are pitiful. I hope by the end of the entire drama they can understand each other and reunite (like Ming Lan and her grandmother understood each other but also like Ming Lan finally revealing her true face to her father and him coming to terms with why she become so and how he was a part of her becoming so ruthless and calculating but still by the end of the day they become family again)
(P.S : that was a long ass reply but I hope it will enlighten others as to why ShaoShang's mother is acting the way she is, not that she is right for doing so but she that has to. I also hope we can keep on exchanging our view points because you are interesting and I liked you analysis of what was going on.)