This list is awesome. With MDL rankings being unreliable I was manually going through each title in Douban to get an idea of what is good and popular.. but this is literally the best list on the internet
I feel like the show gets hate for the dumbest reasons.. the show is extremely slow and I feel like the plot isn't planned out properly, you can tell because there's dropped threads and uneven character turns. If anything that's why the show sucks.
That said, this is NOT a deliberately depressing drama, I don't even find it to be Makjang really. This is.. reality. Like the famous statistic that 50% of couples divorce, yet 99% of dramas don't address that. Just because a show attempt to address doesn't mean I find it to be offensive or anything.
This story is about shades of grey, how there is humanity in a villain and cruelty in protagonists. Many of the characters in this drama are portrayed a certain positive/negative way in the beginning, and then flip by the end, and that's by design. I think that it's a bold subversion in the genre and not one attempted commonly in Korea..
Now the thing is that some of the character development.. sucks. Boo Hye-Ryung's development makes really little sense to me by the end of Season 2 for example. But others are done really well.
I understand how everyone doesn't have the same preference but I personally don't like the ending. the thing is…
I feel the same way.
I think it's a necessity that the past KSY gets to have the the king and not JBH, it's fine as that's the sacrifice.
What doesn't make sense is in this world of time travel and body switching, we couldn't have had a happy ending for JBH? Why didn't they do the obvious thing, make JBH bi, and have a reincarnated King show up in the future? Or if they're scared of the gay thing have a reincarnated female version of the king? Wish they threw JBH a bone at the end.
If you just look at it strictly from a story perspective, character development perspective.. it's ok
But I think it's so entertaining if you look at it as a parody of dramas, tropes, male/female stereotypes. It deconstructs everything we know from other dramas to poke fun at it. Really unlike anything I've seen.. maybe similar to Heroic Husband in ways but this even moreso.
Trying to follow the logic from each character's POV is kind of difficult and for me it breaks down in the last half.. that would be the weakness of the drama. But if you just kind of go with the ups and downs of each turn or accept that their decisions are flawed then maybe you have a better time.
I like the ML and FL pairing. I think the chemistry is fantastic.
Two problems may present though: the ML is on the razor's edge of good and bad. I like him but he may do one or two things that the viewer ends up hating him for. And the FL has the problem of 'no redeeming value'. She is the recipient of a lot of good favors, does trouble, isn't smart and doesn't do a lot in return.. only thing carrying her likability is her energy and good will mostly. She is a bystander to the events of the show or straight up making mistakes most of the time.
But I like the ML moral grey area, it's unusually gritty for the genre. And the FL being the 'scriptwriter' puts her in control of the narrative, at least.. even if she keeps completely bungling the thing.
It's a great rom com. It's weird because of the time travel fictional universe dynamic but it serves its purpose beautifully. Take the good and the bad with this one.
OG emperor: Tried to kill Xiao Qi and Awu to preserve his throne and limit Wang's power, Awu knows this and is cool with that fact.
Queen Dowager: Tried killing Xiao Qi, demolished the Xie family, actively poisoning OG emperor so her son can take the throne.. Awu knows all this.. and is cool with this fact.
Second Prince: Takes over the throne forcefully with help from the outside savages clan, quite nice to Awu otherwise.. Awu is NOT cool with this.
Third Prince: Takes over the throne forcefully with help from the outside savages clan (and arguably more evil as he killed First Prince and tried to kill Xiao Qi).. Awu IS cool with this even by the end!
Prime Minister: Tries to take over the throne forcefully from the drunk, useless Third Prince who has committed 1000 crimes, and who can blame him? Awu and Xiao Qi have nearly been killed 100 times by everyone else scheming against them! However, Awu is NOT cool with this!
Where the hell is Awu's moral compass? So when her dad tries to take the throne in the final episode that's not OK, yet the OG emperor, Queen Dowager, Third Prince all scheming and killing people in order to get/maintain the throne is fine?
Awu's view has just been wildly inconsistent.
Also other than killing the innocents like the baby and the maid I get the Prime Minister (Awu's dad) by the end. Everybody is a literal POS. Awu and Xiao Qi should have died 100 times over. Only way to survive is by taking the power for yourself in this world. If you just stand still, by virtue of being a Wang or being an army leader, somebody would have used or abused them.
Every guy in this drama is head over heels in love with Awu and everyone wants to kill Xiao Qi.
Yep.
- Nearly every eligible main male character of marriage age is in love with Awu (Xiao Qi, General Song, 1st and 3rd prince, Helan Zhen) (only exclusion is the 2nd prince). Every single one of these men end up with a girl that they're dissatisfied with because they love Awu.
- Every main character has wanted to kill Xiao Qi at some point. Only exception may be his brother and father in law of coourse. This is the man that nobody wanted to marry at the beginning of the show, but apparently he is also the most powerful man as well who controls all the armies.. whoops. You really just have to ignore logic in this one.
- Awu has been separated from Xiao Qi and 'kidnapped' three times, to be ultimately saved by Xiao Qi at the last minute: Helan Zhen in the beginning, Second Prince when he took over the palace, Helan Zhen again at the end. Although not kidnapped, Awu also held the city during the siege for just long enough for Xiao Qi to save her early on in the show as well. The roles are hardly ever reversed for these two BTW, in this respect.
- So Xiao Qi is the one who saves Awu and Awu is the one who goes through hardship and suffers A LOT, and that's fine. But she never reacts. Just watch any scene. Xiao Qi is portrayed as the strong one so I understand that he is stoic and expressionless at times. But she just shows nothing as characters like Jin'er and Dowager are bawling and breaking the eff down, as they should be. Probably the choice was made to act Awu as a strong resourceful character but that's not what's actually happening in the story.
This show has one trick and it plays it over and over again. I was so excited in the late episodes when General Song started showing shades of grey.. it's really one of few twists in the show. Basically Awu and Xiao Qi are good, and everyone else is scum of the earth. It's really that simple, gets boring by the end.
Huge budget, great visual storytelling and battles and acting talent though. I'll give the show that.
Couldn't agree with you more. She's so weak, This title, Rebel Princess...definitely not suit her. Shes great…
I can handle the weirdo plot and logic.. it's not the worst I've seen and the budget is so high that it helps the believability.
But you touched on my biggest problem: Awu/Zhang Ziyi is like.. some sort of Buddha in this drama like you said. All this stuff has happened to her but I have never felt that she was damaged or devastated by anything.. she just coolly handles things and moves on.
Characters like the Queen Dowager and Wanru show how it's done, they actually react to sad events and seem vulnerable and emotional. Awu/Zhang Ziyi never has any reaction! Just look at Awu during any major event that happens to her in the story.. just the same blank, strong facial expression. If you never see the main character as vulnerable, you don't relate to them.
80% of the male characters are in love with Awu. 80% of the people are trying to kill Awu or Xiao Qi. It's not like there's a limited role for Zhang Ziyi.. I think she just decided to play this role like this. Maybe the director or script writers were too afraid to change what she was doing..
Who's next in the retribution sweepstakes? That's all I want to know. Just finished episode 53 and I'm ready to…
I actually kind of get Jin'er's logic.. get rid of Awu because when the 3rd Prince takes the throne, he's just going to try to marry Awu and that will be bad for everybody, not just Jin'er but literally everybody. 3rd Prince can't help himself he's a dummy too.
My issue is WTF kind of nut listens to Helan Zhen's people??? Fine help 3rd Prince, you love him, maybe poison Awu on your own.. but you really going to trust these nutty savages? When she gets violated in the cart, it's horrible of course but like.. did she not see this coming??? Jin'er, big idiot more than anything.
I was a fan of Wan'er because she was a cute character, with her chicken leg and all. I was content with her and…
I agree but I think it's deliberate because of how crazy it is to produce a half or a third of a story. Going into this you know Wan'er's arc is going to be followed by Si Lili and DuoDuo. The story isn't going to make it back to Qing so as a writer I think you look at this and say we need to make Wan'er a definitive OTP feel but also leave the door open for the other 2 girls to make them likable underdogs. Under the circumstances I'd say it's perfect because I jumped immediately to the Si Lili bandwagon when given the chance and then DuoDuo when that was given the chance.
Put it this way imagine Wan'er was perfectly written and given more time and then they gave DuoDuo the same stuff. It just hits different; Fan Xian isn't a lovable rogue anymore, he's just a dick for going around flirting with other girls! In fact he's kind of already toeing the line pretty boldly..
What I'd expect in a second season is expect Wan'er to really show us why she deserves her spot in a OTP scenario and if they go harem..I guess we'll see.
Not crazy about Jun Ji Hyun. Have seen her on several drama and movies. (LOBS, Sassy Girl, Assassination, II Mare).…
I'm gonna have to defend Jun Ji Hyun, she played it flawless. The point was to have her play an arrogant loud top star with tonnes of experience, not the young sexy inexperienced star you seem to weirdly want, which would make no sense to have in this show since Soo Hyun is playing the young looking 'fish out of water' who is unfamiliar with Earth. The drama only works if you contrast the two characters.
Still though fine, hate the character. But don't hate the actress. Especially in light of Crash Landing on You and Yejin's performance in a role that's largely similar to JiHyun, honestly I am even more appreciative of Jihyun's performance by contrast, she has a special charisma.
That said, this is NOT a deliberately depressing drama, I don't even find it to be Makjang really. This is.. reality. Like the famous statistic that 50% of couples divorce, yet 99% of dramas don't address that. Just because a show attempt to address doesn't mean I find it to be offensive or anything.
This story is about shades of grey, how there is humanity in a villain and cruelty in protagonists. Many of the characters in this drama are portrayed a certain positive/negative way in the beginning, and then flip by the end, and that's by design. I think that it's a bold subversion in the genre and not one attempted commonly in Korea..
Now the thing is that some of the character development.. sucks. Boo Hye-Ryung's development makes really little sense to me by the end of Season 2 for example. But others are done really well.
I think it's a necessity that the past KSY gets to have the the king and not JBH, it's fine as that's the sacrifice.
What doesn't make sense is in this world of time travel and body switching, we couldn't have had a happy ending for JBH? Why didn't they do the obvious thing, make JBH bi, and have a reincarnated King show up in the future? Or if they're scared of the gay thing have a reincarnated female version of the king? Wish they threw JBH a bone at the end.
But I think it's so entertaining if you look at it as a parody of dramas, tropes, male/female stereotypes. It deconstructs everything we know from other dramas to poke fun at it. Really unlike anything I've seen.. maybe similar to Heroic Husband in ways but this even moreso.
Trying to follow the logic from each character's POV is kind of difficult and for me it breaks down in the last half.. that would be the weakness of the drama. But if you just kind of go with the ups and downs of each turn or accept that their decisions are flawed then maybe you have a better time.
I like the ML and FL pairing. I think the chemistry is fantastic.
Two problems may present though: the ML is on the razor's edge of good and bad. I like him but he may do one or two things that the viewer ends up hating him for. And the FL has the problem of 'no redeeming value'. She is the recipient of a lot of good favors, does trouble, isn't smart and doesn't do a lot in return.. only thing carrying her likability is her energy and good will mostly. She is a bystander to the events of the show or straight up making mistakes most of the time.
But I like the ML moral grey area, it's unusually gritty for the genre. And the FL being the 'scriptwriter' puts her in control of the narrative, at least.. even if she keeps completely bungling the thing.
It's a great rom com. It's weird because of the time travel fictional universe dynamic but it serves its purpose beautifully. Take the good and the bad with this one.
OG emperor: Tried to kill Xiao Qi and Awu to preserve his throne and limit Wang's power, Awu knows this and is cool with that fact.
Queen Dowager: Tried killing Xiao Qi, demolished the Xie family, actively poisoning OG emperor so her son can take the throne.. Awu knows all this.. and is cool with this fact.
Second Prince: Takes over the throne forcefully with help from the outside savages clan, quite nice to Awu otherwise.. Awu is NOT cool with this.
Third Prince: Takes over the throne forcefully with help from the outside savages clan (and arguably more evil as he killed First Prince and tried to kill Xiao Qi).. Awu IS cool with this even by the end!
Prime Minister: Tries to take over the throne forcefully from the drunk, useless Third Prince who has committed 1000 crimes, and who can blame him? Awu and Xiao Qi have nearly been killed 100 times by everyone else scheming against them! However, Awu is NOT cool with this!
Where the hell is Awu's moral compass? So when her dad tries to take the throne in the final episode that's not OK, yet the OG emperor, Queen Dowager, Third Prince all scheming and killing people in order to get/maintain the throne is fine?
Awu's view has just been wildly inconsistent.
Also other than killing the innocents like the baby and the maid I get the Prime Minister (Awu's dad) by the end. Everybody is a literal POS. Awu and Xiao Qi should have died 100 times over. Only way to survive is by taking the power for yourself in this world. If you just stand still, by virtue of being a Wang or being an army leader, somebody would have used or abused them.
- Nearly every eligible main male character of marriage age is in love with Awu (Xiao Qi, General Song, 1st and 3rd prince, Helan Zhen) (only exclusion is the 2nd prince). Every single one of these men end up with a girl that they're dissatisfied with because they love Awu.
- Every main character has wanted to kill Xiao Qi at some point. Only exception may be his brother and father in law of coourse. This is the man that nobody wanted to marry at the beginning of the show, but apparently he is also the most powerful man as well who controls all the armies.. whoops. You really just have to ignore logic in this one.
- Awu has been separated from Xiao Qi and 'kidnapped' three times, to be ultimately saved by Xiao Qi at the last minute: Helan Zhen in the beginning, Second Prince when he took over the palace, Helan Zhen again at the end. Although not kidnapped, Awu also held the city during the siege for just long enough for Xiao Qi to save her early on in the show as well. The roles are hardly ever reversed for these two BTW, in this respect.
- So Xiao Qi is the one who saves Awu and Awu is the one who goes through hardship and suffers A LOT, and that's fine. But she never reacts. Just watch any scene. Xiao Qi is portrayed as the strong one so I understand that he is stoic and expressionless at times. But she just shows nothing as characters like Jin'er and Dowager are bawling and breaking the eff down, as they should be. Probably the choice was made to act Awu as a strong resourceful character but that's not what's actually happening in the story.
This show has one trick and it plays it over and over again. I was so excited in the late episodes when General Song started showing shades of grey.. it's really one of few twists in the show. Basically Awu and Xiao Qi are good, and everyone else is scum of the earth. It's really that simple, gets boring by the end.
Huge budget, great visual storytelling and battles and acting talent though. I'll give the show that.
But you touched on my biggest problem: Awu/Zhang Ziyi is like.. some sort of Buddha in this drama like you said. All this stuff has happened to her but I have never felt that she was damaged or devastated by anything.. she just coolly handles things and moves on.
Characters like the Queen Dowager and Wanru show how it's done, they actually react to sad events and seem vulnerable and emotional. Awu/Zhang Ziyi never has any reaction! Just look at Awu during any major event that happens to her in the story.. just the same blank, strong facial expression. If you never see the main character as vulnerable, you don't relate to them.
80% of the male characters are in love with Awu. 80% of the people are trying to kill Awu or Xiao Qi. It's not like there's a limited role for Zhang Ziyi.. I think she just decided to play this role like this. Maybe the director or script writers were too afraid to change what she was doing..
My issue is WTF kind of nut listens to Helan Zhen's people??? Fine help 3rd Prince, you love him, maybe poison Awu on your own.. but you really going to trust these nutty savages? When she gets violated in the cart, it's horrible of course but like.. did she not see this coming??? Jin'er, big idiot more than anything.
Put it this way imagine Wan'er was perfectly written and given more time and then they gave DuoDuo the same stuff. It just hits different; Fan Xian isn't a lovable rogue anymore, he's just a dick for going around flirting with other girls! In fact he's kind of already toeing the line pretty boldly..
What I'd expect in a second season is expect Wan'er to really show us why she deserves her spot in a OTP scenario and if they go harem..I guess we'll see.
Still though fine, hate the character. But don't hate the actress. Especially in light of Crash Landing on You and Yejin's performance in a role that's largely similar to JiHyun, honestly I am even more appreciative of Jihyun's performance by contrast, she has a special charisma.