Bravia

Like in, they did not mean ill, but sometimes sometimes they get lost in translation or cultural understanding and still do something totally offensive. For example, if you watch Backstreet Rookie they had an actor that played a pervert. However, they made the pervert a guy with rasta-hair. Super-offensive to black people, but it was just a random character and they could also make him from a small country-village instead of rastafari. But many people think that the directors of Backstreet Rookie did it on purpose to ridicule black culture. Same goes for AIB. Some people think that the writer and the director hates females, but it is just that Japan is not so used to the woke-culture.

I tried to ignore you for a bit, but that last part is beyond ridiculous. If you use 시발놈 or 닥쳐 in Korea, it will not end well for you, pal. Translate this, you moron: ㄴㄱㅁ

My bad, I was paraphrasing... Also, as you can see, our conversation was very civil until Your Turn started to accuse me of all kinds of things. I must admit that I do not really do a deep dive on everything you said, because our conversation was friendly, so there was no need to nitpick every word you said. However, I notice that I missed the slight nuances in your conversation when I was initially reading it, because I skimmed through it too quickly. So my apologies for that.

Also, in the heat of the moment, I was responding more aggressively than I should and cited you perhaps unfavourably/wrongly. You have to understand that that was not my intention. This Your Turn-guy is slightly autistic I guess. I saw him also in the Squid Game comment section and he really likes to do the "Donald Trump" (harass people).

Wait a minute... You said that you spoke only elementary Hangul, dumbass. If that is not true, we can do this conversation in Korean. 크크크크크크크크크 By the way, you do realise that even if I can speak Korean, it does not mean that I am Korean, right? What if I am a Japanese person that can speak Korean?

Anyways, you challenge me... So let's play the game. Let's start with the basics then to see whether you really speak the language: 잘 지냈어? (Yes, I used the informal version for you)

Personally I do not agree that Hillary was considered a good candidate. She considered the best of the two, but that is hardly an achievement. One of the things that did not work for Hillary either was the fact that she was very high on her horse (she called blue collar people/Trump voters deplorabels, right?). Also her track record as a lawyer showed that she would defend rapists until the point where she basically harassed the victims. It also does not help that she never advertised her femininist/feminine-side when she was competing with Obama to be the Democratic-candidate. You cannot change your image in eight years. So her revamped image did not work, because people knew her already. Finally, she ignored a group of voters that felt disenfranchised (Michigan and the Rust Belt in general), which turned out to be a big miscalculation. This is very similar as to why Moon Jae-in's Democratic Party will not remain in office. He alienated the young, male population. Just like Hillary ignored white, blue collar males. What Obama did very well is that he was able to unite people of different colours and backgrounds. Hillary, on the other hand, was basically mobilising liberal women and alienating poor blue collar males.

I do not know where you are from, but you must be one of the rudest person I have encountered. You have a very passive-aggressive way of expressing yourself. By the way, bumhole... Go learn some Latin and find the definition of bravium (the singular form of bravia).

Thanks again for your answer. I think we are really on different pages, because this getting out of control. You should start with the beginning of my conversation with Se0ulmate.

I replied to her/him after she said that Alice in Borderland was female-unfriendly. I basically replied by saying (and I am paraphrasing): "Yeah, you absolutely right, but that is part of the Japanese culture. To be fair, the rest of Asia ain't better. It is ingrained in our culture. Do you really believe k-dramas are reality? Korean women have it equally as bad. What we see in k-dramas is to appeal to the international market, it is not a reflection of reality in regards of how women are treated." Se0ulmate responded with (and I am paraphrasing again): "But k-dramas are so female-friendly, because of the vocal feminism in Korea." After which I responded with "Feminism is detrimental to female empowerment. Thanks to them we are getting more hate every day." So basically I had two point of arguments. 1. Asian culture is unfriendly to women, k-dramas just mask it because their target market is also international. 2. Feminism is not real in Korea, it does more bad than good. If I read between the lines, I do not really see you put any arguments forward to rebut my claims.

Afterwards, you joined the conversation and started to call me a Korea-hater etc. (lol). I do not really understand how this escalated to this point. Se0ulmate was apparently under the impression that women have it very good in Korea, until the point that we are even more forward than the US as we elected a female president. However, after I took time to read your comments, I do not think we are necessarily disagreeing. You tend to agree with me that Korea is more similar to Japan than America. So in that regard, I do not really understand why we are having an argument. I think where I went wrong is the fact that I started comparing Japan to Korea instead with the rest of Asia. Since I am Korean I thought this was a fair comparison. It would not make sense to compare Japan to China for example, as I am not familiar with the Chinese culture. The fact that I did not mention I was Korean, made it look as if I was hating on Korea.

Honne and tatemae is a stereotype. My personal experience is that Japan can also be very direct. There are plenty of signs in Japan where they say that they do not serve foreigners/army guys. Korea has those signs as well, but it is much less in your face and sometimes they will use an excuse to tell a person that he cannot enter the premise (for example, our club/restaurant is full). Japan tends to be much more direct than Korea in this regard.

Finally, I recommend you to read this blogpost by a senior lecturer at a British university who is of Korean heritage on why the Busan and Seoul elections were influenced by anti-female sentiments: https://www.eastasiaforum.org/2021/05/29/will-resurgent-misogyny-undo-south-koreas-progress-gender-equality/. As you might be aware, Korea is going through a recession and youth employment rates are incredibly high (youngsters call Korea sometimes "Hell Joseon") and women are taking the blame for it. Which is totally unfair as there was no gender equality (irrelevant of what definition you use) to begin with.

공자 앞에서 문자 쓴다

We have to take one step back, because what are we actually arguing about?

I have the impression that you try to argue that Korea is a female-friendly country? It is a common fact that that is not true, it is quite the opposite. The role of women in Korea is much closer in Japan than to the West - whether you like it or not. All the things you cite about the cultural problems such as barriers to entry to certain fields and single parenthoods show that Korea is not female friendly.

In my previous comments I said that Japan is also female-unfriendly, but at least you know what you get. The problem with discrimination in Korea is that it is latent, whilst in Japan it is more black and white. To me, it feels much worse. For example, would you rather be told that you are "piece of shit" or would you rather be showed indirectly that you are a "piece of shit"? - I prefer the former.

What I try to say is that Korea has a tendency to be really vocal about gender inequality, but then the results show something totally different. For example, the mayors of Seoul and Busan were fired because of sexual harassment, but what happens in the by-election afterwards? The general public votes for the candidates representing the anti-female, conservative People Power Party.

Quite honestly, you have not rebutted my initial claim, where I said that Korea and Japan are equally as backwards and that k-dramas are not a reflection of reality. If you want to prove me wrong, you should actually not compare Japan with Korea, but Korea with a Western country. The female lead characters in kdramas are much closed in female empowerment to the West than to Japan, which contradicts reality. What you only tried to do, is downplay Korea's issues and claim "Japan is even worse".

You make some valid points. But do realise that your point about Moon Jae-in is outdated. Yes, he is a pro-feminist President, but because of this his party will lose the elections. The Seoul and Busan Mayoral by-elections prove it, where the winners were from the conservative and strong anti-female People Power Party. This article of Foreign Policy wrote a small section about it: https://foreignpolicy.com/2021/06/23/young-south-korean-men-hate-liberals-feminists/. Both elections are a pre-cursor for the 2022 Presidential elections... So it does not look good for the Democratic Party of Moon Jae-in.

I think we should take one step back. What you wrote is all correct. Big, growing feminist movement? - Check. Moon Jae-in pro-feminist? - Check. Female President? - Check, although she was the daughter of Park Chung-hee and was popular because of this reason and not necessarily because of her gender. Also after her impeachment, people are less favourable to a woman in office. Again, the Seoul and Busan Mayoral by-elections prove it. Also Bloomberg wrote the following: "South Korea’s gender problems run deep. Despite being the world’s 10th-largest economy, the country has the largest wage gap between men and women of any developed country, according to data from the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development. Only three of Moon’s 18 cabinet members are women, and South Korea ranks in the bottom half of the world in terms of female representation in parliament with 17.1%."

By the way, there are worse people than Bill Cosby and Harvey Weinstein in Korean entertainment, but those scandals are covered up. Heard of the Burning Sun-scandal?

You are saying that dramas are female-friendly because of the feminist movement, I argue that they are female friendly because it increases the export potential. But to be fair, we might be both right... Where we go astray is the fact we are arguing something different.

You are talking about the improvement in Korea on gender issues and I am explaining to you that I feel only more hate as a woman in Korea after the feminist movement. Quite honestly, we are both right on this topic. I am sorry that I took it a bit personal. As said, as a woman in Korea I notice that feminism is increasingly becoming a dirty word and we are getting more marginalised each day. Thus, it is sometimes difficult to accept a foreigner's perspective on this topic, because I experience so little improvement. In fact, I can only wish for the same treatment of women as in Japan (and that says a lot, because Japan is not a good example of a femaly-inclusive society either). But perhaps you are right and the Korean society will change because of feminism. Perhaps they are the growing pains we experience right now.

Hi Your Turn. You prove my point. I had a long message in the Squid Game comment section about how people pretended to understand Asia after the whole Squid Game-hype. As a Korean, I truly hate people like you. As a woman, I have to deal with sexist comments on the workplace on a daily basis, and I work at a big listed company... And I am not the only one... Even if I want to use a public toilet or if I stand in the train, I have to watch carefully for spycams. Radical or even general feminism is growing in Korea, because we are treated so poorly. Without all these gender issues, there would be no need for feminism.

Also, I quote this directly from Bloomberg: "South Korea’s gender problems run deep. Despite being the world’s 10th-largest economy, the country has the largest wage gap between men and women of any developed country, according to data from the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development. Only three of Moon’s 18 cabinet members are women, and South Korea ranks in the bottom half of the world in terms of female representation in parliament with 17.1%."

But some random person named "Your Turn" knows how Korea works... Please tell me, have you ever been to Korea?

Fair point on the incel-part. However, incels are relatively masked and part of the underground scene. As much as they hate women, their opinions are not carried by the mainstream. The US is still very pro-female. Companies will not budge for these incels. The same cannot be said by Korea. Asian Boss had a good segment on it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NO0H-jKAcb8. If you watch the guy at 6:50, you will hear him compare Korea to Japan and the US and how far the latter countries have come on female rights and that Korea will develop the same way as well.

But you can say that that is merely his opinion (I mean, Japan is a very bad example of a female-friendly country in my opinion), but it is a fact that Korea is very patriarchal. If you check the rankings of the United Nations. Korea is the country with the worst gender gap in East-Asia and 8th in the world. Here is the summary, you can look up the report yourself: https://www.usnews.com/news/best-countries/slideshows/10-worst-countries-for-gender-equality-ranked-by-perception?slide=12

Please shut the fuck up. I never said that Korean film is as toxic as Japan. It is quite the contrary. I only said that their society is equally as toxic, but that their dramas and movies are very female-friendly.

If you do not believe me regarding the pinching hand gesture. Go educate yourself and watch the channel of Asian Boss: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NO0H-jKAcb8.

Here is another source. Korea is 8th worst country for gender equality according the ranking of the United Nations: https://www.usnews.com/news/best-countries/slideshows/10-worst-countries-for-gender-equality-ranked-by-perception?slide=12. Yes, even Japan scores higher.

Stop being such a K-boo and go explore the world.

Please do not take it the wrong way, because I do not want to agitate you. However, I think the vocal feminist movement is slightly exaggerated in terms of influence by you. Any idol or actress that show some feminist thoughts are immediately cancelled. Do you know the "pinching hand gesture"? This is a sign of the feminist movement and anyone who has been accused of doing it, has been cancelled. This is an article on that topic: https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/when-is-sausage-just-sausage-controversial-ads-fuel-skoreas-sexism-debate-2021-05-28/.

If a simple hand gesture can rile up all the men in Korea... Imagine if you are really vocal about equal treatment between men and women. Korea is equally as backwards in that regard as Japan. The only reason that k-dramas are less female-unfriendly is because they target the international market.

Yeah, but women still have it tough in Korea - no matter how big the femininist movement is. The reason that lookism is so strong (the beauty standards are so high) in Korea is mainly driven by their patriarchal society.

Exactly, to put into perspective how ridiculous this claim is. Imagine you live in a rich place in the West. Let's say Manhattan New York or Central London... Would it make sense for people there to say shit such as "I use my kids as investments to secure my retirement?". The answer is clearly "no", because raising kids in Manhattan or Central-London is damn expensive. People in the West will call you crazy for investing in such a money pit. However, when we use the same arguments about a city that is equally expensive such as Tokyo, Seoul or Hong Kong, then suddenly all these Western people nod in agreement. That is because they live with this idea that Asia is some backwards continent where people have to walk 40 miles for water and that having lots of children means more manpower. Look, I am actually not really pissed about it if a commoner would say something like this, because I am also ignorant about lots of stuff. But these people are tenured professors. To the general public, they are considered experts on Korea. These professors should add nuances in the debate, but instead add even more stereotypes to Korea.

Another claim by these self-proclaimed experts was that one can only have a good career in Korea if you graduated from SKY (Seoul National University, Korea and Yonsei). I sometimes wonder how these people do their research? Do they straight up take their inspiration from the k-drama Sky Castle? Although Korea is extremely competitive, SKY is not necessarily a shoo-in for a good career. First of all, they compete with foreign universities and second of all universities such as KAIST, Postech and Ewha are held in the same regard. Although this might sound petty, but I hate it when these so-called experts make it even more dramatic than the real situation already is.

The feeling they might ignite with this kind of comments is that people in the West will sigh in relief that their country is so perfect, because it is so equal and that they could have it worse such as in Asia.

I have never said that South-Asia is part of the West? I said that Western entitled brats will lump the whole Asia together again. I never referred to India in my original post...

The fact that they refer to slow internet, selling organs for money and using kids as investments is because they think that the country is poor and a third-world country... The other day Saturday Night Live also made this shit joke about Korea being poor. But Korea has made huge developments after the war. No offense, but the West confuses East-Asia with South/South-East Asia, so my original comment is correct (when I referred to the whole of Asia). But even then, I am not sure whether this claim can be made about South/South-East Asia, as selling organs for money is just a bridge too far.

But women are treated horribly in Japan (but also Korea). It is expected of women to "serve" the men. Many women retire to take care of the kids after getting married. Although there are improvements, the society is still rigid. K-dramas are partly marketed to international markets, so they made some adaptations to fit the zeitgeist, but it is hardly a reflection of reality. But even then, they sometimes show lack of understanding cultural awareness... For example, k-dramas have manage to (unintentionally) appropriate black culture a few times. That said, I do agree that woman are treated horribly in AIB, but it is not done intentionally by the director in my opinion - it is how their society is.

But that is because you are from India and the mentality is slighty different. Korea is so unaffordable that raising kids will put a huge financial burden on you. The low fertility in Japan, Korea and nowadays also China is directly related to the competitive environment: https://www.asahi.com/ajw/articles/14338131. The argument where people see children as investments in mainly in countries where there are limited availability to social security and where children can work instead of their parents. Not in extremely competitive environments where real estate prices are so incredibly high. Seoul, Hong Kong, Tokyo? - Not a chance that people will take kids until they received some financial stability.

By the way, the reason I mentioned Asia instead of East-Asia is the fact that people also misunderstand South-East Asia and South-Asia in the West. My initial arguments pertained mainly to East-Asia, because Squid Game is in South-Korea, but there are equally as ridiculous claims about India. Also, East-Asia and the rest of Asia is very different. East-Asia is more derived from the teachings of Confucius (although Japan and Korea made some alterations throughout history). This is clearly different from India or a Muslim country such as Indonesia. But most Western people think of Asia as dirty, loud, poor and with weird eating habits.

One thing I really hate about this whole Squid Game phenomenon is that it brings in a bunch of Western entitled brats that act as if they understand how Asia works.

So I was reading an article from a very reputable news agency where they tried to "analyse" the whole social message of the director. I read the most ridiculous claims out there. One professor specialised in Korean studies (a dude named Remco Breuker) claimed that debt levels are so high that selling organs are not unheard of in Korea... Another ridiculous claim was that parents see their children as investments so they can take care of them later... What the fuck... What kind of fallacious argument is this... It cost money to have children... Imagine you are dirt poor and you take kids as an investments... Well... Let me tell you something... It will cost you more than it can give you back. Especially, if the kid does not get an elite job.

Yes, Asia is tough, but Western media are stereotyping again and think Squid Game and Parasite are complete reflections of reality... The only often-used argument that I have not encountered yet, is that these journalists forget to mention that Koreans get plastic surgery for their 18th birthday, because without double-eyelids you will fail in life...

And for this reason, it bugs me a little bit that this show is so incredibly popular, because Western MSM will spread blatant lies about Asia again. The other day I saw another journalist claim that their internet infrastructure is one of the best in the world, so they do not have to worry about internet problems caused by Squid Game streams such as in SoKor... The sheer ignorance... Just go on Google and check which countries rolled out 5G the quickest... It ain't the US or an European country, but Korea, Japan and China.

I find this also a bit weird about Asian shows. If you watch a Japanese, Hong Kong or Korean show/movie and they are at a prestigious law firm or hotel, there are always a bunch of white guys.

No offense, but in the West it is actually the other way around. A prestigious university such as Harvard or Stanford is literally full with Asian people. We also see the same pattern with prestigious companies such as Google, Goldman Sachs or McKinsey - a big chunk are of Asian heritage. In fact, if I visit a 5-star hotel, the majority of the visitors are not white (Arab or Asian). But in Asia a lot of times the VVIP and rich people are white...