Eleison

It doesn't progress much in Episode 9. They're in the angsty phase. 😅 They basically realize they miss each other, and that's it so far.

That's a great observation! I'll be intrigued to see if that's how things play out. :)

Happy to share!

And I'll stop now, haha, so I don't keep hijacking this comment section to discuss other dramas. 😬

Oh, I didn't mind at all about the later reply! It's the weekend so I just happen to have more time. :) Yeah, no, even in the Korean version the only "abuse" really, is when the ML has his minions bully the FL at the beginning. And the only time the Korean ML is pushy with the FL in an uncomfortable way romantically (if I'm remembering correctly) is when he gives her an unwanted peck long before they ever become a thing because he's frustrated he can't control her feisty rebelliousness; that's definitely not cool. Oh, and one part when she saves him from drowning (he can't swim in the Korean version), he let's her do mouth to mouth even though he's fine and then laughs at her. But besides that, he's just a lose cannon with a temper and a first class, self-obsessed jerk, though he does soften considerably by the end of the Korean version, albeit with still a bit of a temper. 😂 In the Thai version, the ML also has a much more endearing relationship with F4, which wasn't fleshed out nearly as satisfyingly in the Korean version. The ending is also way better in the Thai version; it was very satisfying. I wouldn't necessarily say it's more realistic, haha, but the script is much better. It's quite the rollercoaster, but yeah, maybe give it a shot and see what you think! I think it's a classic for a reason. I describe it to people as a much more dramatic Pride and Prejudice in high school with less mature leads. And it's finally on Viki now, or it was a month or so ago.

That's fair; when I went into BOFs, I was intrigued by the way people described it since there were such scathing comments next to comments with "my favorite of all time." The first few episodes are hard to get through, but the ML is so interesting that it works somehow, though it does have problematic stuff (and the Korean version is way too long). I also see a story like BOFs (even to some extent all Kdramas; let's be real, these portrayals are just not realistic to most men) as pure fantasy. Abusive guys usually DON'T change, which makes Jun Pyo's progress not very realistic (his story is one of a spoiled child who suddenly has someone tell him "no." He doesn't know what to do with it but because he's not thoroughly self-obsessed, he's drawn to the person who tells him no, starts to reflect, and comes to realize how awful he's been). I liked the optimism of the story even though I know in real life it's rare (Jun Pyo feels a lot like Zuko in Avatar: the Last Airbender, if you've ever seen that kids show; their redemptive arcs are quite similar!). And I do think stories like BOF can reinforce fantasies about guys changing in relationships (even though in BOFmost of his growth happens before they date), which makes them controversial viewing, for sure. That said, I actually found the Thai version of BOF less toxic than the Korean version. The story is darker and grittier in terms of the bullying aspect, but the ML is written better (he is never sexually abusive whatsoever), and his progression from selfish bully brat to a person with compassion, care for those around him and self-awareness is pretty great to watch. I don't usually do Thai dramas, but I'd heard good things about this one and was pleasantly surprised.

Good to know! And a season 2 can be dangerous for a very hyped season 1 😅

Watching an abusive relationship that's being portrayed as romantic is definitely not my cup of tea. At least in dramas with toxic leads like Boys Over Flowers or King2Hearts, the ML improves and changes over time. That has to happen or I won't watch it.

Ah, I see, then maybe Start Up won't be your thing, haha.

That's a good point. Though I've rarely watched a drama 16 episodes or more, even when I've liked it, when I didn't think some content could have been removed. There are a few exceptions, but there are notoriously slow parts in episodes 12-15 of most 16 episode dramas ("It was great until the end!" is a common gripe I read).

I've been intrigued by Moving! I don't have Hulu so I'm waiting until I can watch it with a free trial. 😅 And I don't like to use unofficial sites because the ads drive me nuts, and as a general rule I try to use legal platforms if what I want to watch is available on them. Waiting it out for dramas has worked for me most of the time. I also want to make sure it's worth the hype before I start it when it seems above average cause I don't want to be disappointed.

Interesting! And funnily enough, Nam Joo Hyuk was the ML in School 2015. 😂 Poor guy. His performance is a bit more hit and miss than with other actors. I avoided Cheese in the Trap because I heard the ML was awful. It's hard to enjoy a drama where you root more for a SL since you know the formula won't let them win, haha. I get people's gripes with Start Up but I ultimately thought it was satisfying. I loved Seon Ho's performance, but I thought the character of the ML (apart from Jo Hyuk's acting) did ultimately do the best job supporting the FL despite the lying.

Haha, yes, plot armour, indeed! The kind of protection villains never have. 😏 I haven't seen King The Land yet, but I'll probably get to it eventually. I think the new trend in cutting 16 episode dramas to 12 has been a good thing for the Kdrama formula, and while I see why many people complain about the tropes that endlessly recur, I've realized I actually come back to Kdramas because I find the formula comforting. I like that in large part I know what I'm signing up for when I watch one. But I also want to see some creativity in the execution of the formula, the next variation on the theme.

And happy to dialogue; it makes the watching feel more communal!

The ML was played by Nam Joo Hyuk, and the SML was Kim Seon Ho. Both played characters who lied to the FL for different reasons (slightly selfishly, but never to intentionally hurt her). I think most people thought Joo Hyuk was not suited for the role of the ML because he couldn't bring the acting depth required to counter Seon Ho's charismatic performance. So basically people had intense SML syndrome while watching it. 😂 That's why it has a lower rating compared to the screenwriter's other works (in my opinion), because viewers didn't like who the FL ended up with.

I'm getting a good laugh from everyone pointing out how bad the poster looks. 😂

I think both your comments make sense and I completely agree that they would have been better ways for TY to handle the situation. The dramatic tension that extends most Kdrama plots is lack of communication between characters (especially in melodramas or rom coms). Would you agree? And the better Kdramas, like this one, will just have better reasons for the lack of communication, making it easier for us to suspend disbelief. However, there are usually much better ways for our leads to handle things, but then the story would not be what it is. I think this drama did a good job setting the stage for TY to make this decision and communicate poorly because he is still not thinking straight and acting pretty irrationally due to his friend's death. He's scared and acting emotionally. And even if KS could take our big baddie in a fight head on, there are still limits to what she can do, and still ways she could be fooled which would make her stengths useless (like when they snuck up on TY and drugged him).

I like that there were little things from the beginning that were building to the revelation that this guy is NO GOOD. It was only because the FL was twitterpated that she ignored the red flags (which she outlined for us in the narration in the first few episodes 😂, so she admits she knew better), which is why I think it was not as hard for her to move on when things didn't work out. Both ML and FL are pretty good judges of character (I think ML is particularly perceptive), so the ML also picked up on Jae Min's ickiness pretty quickly. He's super unpleasant!

Great observations! Was thinking the same thing about the separation trope and the guy in the restaurant. Since most Kdrama actors are repeatedly featured, seasoned watchers will unfortunately have that spoiled because he's too big of an actor to play a random restaurant owner who looks the other way while syndicates do shady dealings.

I briefly felt the hypocrisy of TY telling the vice principal, "She said she doesn't want to," when the vice principal tried a second time to suck up to her. As if KS saying that ever stopped TY from persisting! That said, what makes these scenarios different is that the vice principal made KS think he liked her THEN capitalized on their relationship. TY was up front from the start and never deceived her about his intentions when he was trying to win her over to choose him as her agent. Also, knowing TY did that because he doesn't want his mom to die made me feel more compassion for his poor recruiting methods but less so for the entitled, gaslighting bum the bf ended up being.

I agree that this can be a tiresome trope in most dramas, but I agree with @ninadophin that in this case, it makes more sens than other versions of this trope I've seen. This is not a stupid reason for distancing himself, but I agree it's still a tad bit frustrating. That said, I don't think it will last long. We only have four episodes left, so they can't stretch it out for too much longer. 😏

I love the screenwriter who wrote Start-Up (since several of her other dramas are my all time favorites), and while I still think it was a very well done drama (I think the themes are powerful), I can totally see why it was controversial and so polarizing. It wasn't a binge-able drama, that's for sure, but Kim Seon Ho very much steals the show.

I thought about him going to the police, too, but I think from his perspective his hands were tied in a few ways. If he had gone to the police, his mom could have been in danger and he didn't know how far the syndicate's reach was. He also would have tanked his career as well as his friend's, and even more than caring about his own job I think he would have hated to ruin HW's chances.

The way TY talked about the game fixing from the start made me think of the way a high school student (who mostly follows the rules) might see other kids doing drugs at school; even though they don't do it themselves and would never participate if they had the choice, they won't tell an adult (i.e. the police in this drama) it's happening because that's snitching and goes against a "code."