I find your perspectives on Hye Jin and Doo Shik very interesting. Doo Shik - I agree that he is a people pleaser…
Thank you for replying during your precious lunch. There was no rush~
hmmm I think time is to thank for that huge gap between him at his lowest and during the beginning episodes of the show. The village helped him find a way to live and to breathe despite all that. Taught him how to carry on. I think he is able to do that because of how disconnected that place was from Seoul...the events that brought him so much pain and emptiness. I think they do highlight that progress. Him getting professional help, constantly looking at the photo, the nightmares, and even his great interest in medications and herbs related to various illnesses. I don't think it was a gradual change. I actually think...maybe he took off days to avoid being disturbed when he was feeling worse, that the waves maybe offered some form of comfort and constant. He was definitely guilt-ridden, but we just caught him at the middle of his recovery. It would be harder to believe that he was able to open up to all their knocking and accept all their worry if he was still in the same state that he was right? I'm sure seeing all the help, impact he was able to provide helped him start to forgive himself...of course that was before he was again cruelly reminded about how various lives were impacted. Even if it wasn't really his fault.
I think not placing a bomb that would suspensefully blow up was a good thing actually! I think they don't need to make it this terrible thing that is referenced throughout the story to keep us engaged. Nor was it something that was just randomly dropped into the plot. I think it suited the way he initially dealt with it. Not all stories are told, and i think as a viewer, it was important to see him as someone that did not need to be pitied. That the villagers were able to look past his tragic family event, look past whatever events he had, and accepted him back. I think that aided my belief as a viewer. That whatever he hid was not out of malice and that whatever he is going through will come out when he is ready.
I do agree that time is such a hard thing to portray in dramas, which is why pacing is such a big discussion. Though, I am not sure if she is healthy functional. I mean both had family issues and got into great schools and good careers. She was always mature for her age but also super rash and arrogant. I agree it was never flushed out completely but I think that is okay. Because the story centered more around how she changed with this village of people, rather than the story of a child that was growing past her neglect. Awkward as that lunch with her father was...I don't think she harbors any serious resentment given the family situation and it as likely resolved. Or at least smoothed over long before the moment these drama lenses were capturing.
hmmm . They were indeed far from ideal and the show did make them look rose colored for sure. But, that is because they also showed many moments where they weren't happy in those circumstances as well. As for the wife that took that guy back...she left him because she realized he never loved her and good for her for seeing that. But if he has realized he does and that he regrets not having seen that treasure of a relationship for what it was....and she is able to forgive him to be happy. I don't see why she shouldn't take him back. She loved him enough to take him back. Why? Because he finally loved her.
He wasn't always consistent but he did change and start to treat his wife better. I don't think the intensity of one or two moments in a character arc make it impossible to address those issues off screen. It is funny because both wives got tired of them and knew they were shitty to them. But they also saw them before aware and make moves to grow. I don't think they should be faulted for not having reached their destination if they did start. I know it doesn't change that they were shitty, but if the wife love and take them back...those issues become problems they solve together. We aren't forced to really accept anything. It was more seeing how their story would unravel for me. What choices would they make and why they were made. I guess my desire to justify any given choice a character makes and how it is so unconceivably opposite of mine. Don't get me wrong...if i was in their shoes, I'm dumping his ass next to the dumpster. But It also made me wonder what sort of person that choice would change for. That I can't really judge them and say for sure until I'm in that exact same position and forced to make a choice.
Similar to how the villagers all go through different things,, have different issues and are more accepting of people in spite of a lot. It made me wonder on the wives themselves if anything.
I loved My liberation notes!! It is interesting because when i had first watched this show...I didn't read anything or watch any trailers so I saw it as basically that . A "human drama with flawed characters trying to live their best each day, overcoming the prejudices and limitations, and still living on with some tears and a smile." I though the drama would be a drama of how she changes with this crisis and establishes herself in this new environment. How will it change her.
I guess our only real disagreement was our initial thoughts and expectations going into the drama.
I read the review! I would like to say it was interesting and thought provoking to read and I wanted to share what I thought too. While I agree the characters aren't all flawless people and the relationship wasn't all healthy...sunshine and rainbows. I think that is okay. For me at least, the comfort was not just the relationship. It was that village. For me, it was more a journey of learning about the village and why each of those villagers, main and side characters lived there. Why they loved it so much. It was the peace that that village brought that drew me in.
I do agree with your point about the need to establish a childhood / past connection. Aside from the picture being taken by grandpa and him...I also questioned the need to really bring all of these connecting points together to (over) sell this magical sense of fate and destiny written in the stars. You are right. Their love was cute enough from just bantering and doodling over math problems.
Du Shik...haha I do agree that it might seem a bit spineless in regards to his life philosophy but I also think that it is (strangely) quite in his line of thinking. He moved a boat to the top of a hill because of his grandfather. He joined his friend at a job that conflicts his major. He runs and helps people around the village like a man who's day last 48 hours. I don't think it is that hard to believe he wouldn't do something for the girl he likes? He runs to her and breaks his rule of not working on his day off. He is also seen running to grandma and giving her a piggy back ride. I think he is such a people pleaser. We see that in his jealously when he feels unneeded during the producer's entrance. He wants to be useful and I think a lot of it comes from his desire to be loved. As much as Hye Jin takes pride in being a doctor dentist...he takes pride in being Chief Hong, village handyman. His parents died. His grandpa passed. He is someone that feels immense gratitude and supports the village that supported him. It was sweet. Seeing the way the village would rally to him for the memorial service and his birthday...how it mirrors the way he runs around doing errands for them. It was never a sense of obligation or repaying. He might have just always been like that :)
As for the whole money and elaborate spending. He does have opinions...expressed begrudgingly delivering her numerous packages. Teasing at her numerous dresses that she has likely never worn. Constantly poking at her obsession to be perceived a certain way by society. So why does he not react that way when she goes and buys that expensive necklace. It is because it is her money. Money she worked hard for and deserves to spend as she pleases. Was this a change in his behavior? I don't think so. As much as he pokes fun of her habits and lifestyle, he never asks her to change. Much like how he says life is just a problem and it is how you solve it that matters. That there is no right or wrong answer like those ksat questions...I don't think the show is ever trying to prove her lifestyle as wrong and uplift his opinion. We see him strive for similar success in his own past. It was simply showing us that there are various ways to live. That understanding and seeing that through the stories of the people in this village...having them resonate with her, would be a good way to deliver that message.
He knows her lavish lifestyle. Every instance of his anger and annoyance was towards her attitude towards other people. Not just people but the village people. He compares her to the spikes of the hedgehog so it is not like he doesn't know she has empathy. Just because he is minimalistic, doesn't mean he can't understand. He allows others to live their lives. I thought it was kind of cool actually. To see him reassure her regarding her own actions. That she didn't need to worry about him being like others who she would need to perform and tiptoe around.
I understand your opinion that he became different, but I don't think so. Take your food point for example. She is ass at cooking. Cool. The point was more that she cooked for him not how it tasted. The thought. He did bring up what he didn't like later. How she trashed his kitchen and that he would be doing the cooking from now on. Was this a change in his actions? No. He has always tried not to hurt people. In the beginning, we see Hwa Jeong sad because people were saying her grilled fish stinks. We see Chun Jae sad because his coffee is downright horrible. His response? Asking who said that. Telling the girl to stop dissing her dad's coffee. Does he definitely know her fish stinks? Very much so. Why is she finding out now? Cause he probably didn't have the heart to tell her. I think...not telling his gf she is bad at cooking is pretty consistent. Is he absolutely firm about some thing? For sure. Does that mean he can't see the world in gradient? I think there is room for both. Golf? I mean he also does math problems for her when he literally doesn't have to prove anything to anyone. He also play go with her dad to make sure things go well.
I also disagree on some of the Hye Jin stuff though. I think they addressed her change and motivations quite well. Someone that worked hard and had no time to invest in relationship and bonding...starved to work hard and succeed...she is someone who is very socially pressured. Constantly calculating and constantly thinking about her future. How did she go from someone like that to spending loads of money and having high pride? Well she reached her goal of being a dentist. What does this tell us about her? Well, I thought it said a lot. That she cared a lot about what others thought. That she took pride in herself and her abilities. I think the second lead being the foil that showed her past and present self was quite interesting. I don't think her ambitions taking the back seat is something so..bad? As much as she grew to love him...did she not also grow to love the village she lives in? Ambition didn't take the back seat, it just changed. In the same way his ambitions and goals change. She took pride in helping them and being the dentist that can provide them care. She integrated into this village that she grew to love. Them taking a break was something that shows her life does not revolve around him like the sun. She puts her foot down and advocates for what she wants. If she doesn't want it anymore...is that wrong? The show does a great deal to show the people that inhabit that village are all working to help improve it. It uses various plots to expand her understanding of the people there and her place...even role in it. I was happy for her. That she was able to imagine the rest of her life there. She is someone that plans according to the life expectancy...I don't think she would ever revolve her life decisions around a man. You refusing to believe that she will be happy living in this town all her life because that's not who she is...is a thought. I had similar discussions with friends. It isn't wrong because we won't know how her life plays out after those credits roll. For all we know, she breaks up with him and moves back to Seoul. But just because she lived her life one way, does not mean it is the only way she can live. Her choices are hers alone :) Just like how we went on about the lack of right and wrong.
I know the villager slut shaming and doing illegal referrals was on people's nerves. Lots of them were shameless. I got angry with for her and felt annoyance towards the villagers various times throughout. But I don't think there was any justifying being done in regards to her actions. That story simply explained why the villagers react the way they. Why they forgive those actions. Because they have seen her lows, which really prepares us for the same parallel of du shik. If you notice, lots of mistakes, even Hye Jin's initial blunder, were not at all justified. They were resolved because they understood, let go, and moved on.
Regarding your issues with the other relationships and character plots. They aren't all unwarranted as there is truth to lots of it. This is getting really long but the point isn't that these people are perfect. I think they are able to all forgive so much and be so understanding is because of these flaws. Are all people rational? Not really. I think...not kicking people at their lows is a great thing this show was able to put into their message. That mistakes are mistakes. Some not reversible and often costing tons of time, even lives. That regrets will remain.
I had said that it was comforting for me because of the village. It was not that the writing looked past all those issues. All those toxic relationships and complicated actions. It simply showed them through both povs. Why do I think Du shik was such an understanding person that was willing to be there? Because he likely wanted the same for himself. He knew the feeling of salt rubbing on a wound. I don't think the characters' complexities were justified to make them appear ideal. I think all those flaws showed that life is not ideal. The village was a place that showed how they learned to live with those flaw. Just because they were able to find it in themselves to be happy. To understand and see the good. I don't think that makes their situation ideal. I liked that. That they found the courage to be happy.
Sorry the show irked you and that it wasn't something you enjoyed. It was really cool to hear why and what specifically it was that made you feel that way. This became really long and sorry if it came off in an offensive way. I just thought it was interesting that your thoughts were very contrasting with the general public. I was honestly also a bit shocked at the mess that was some of their lives. I also adored the two very mature and open children. I just also grew to see them as people. I was able to see a way of life that wasn't my own traditional views of success and values. That for me was cooler than anything else. So it was quite comforting to know there was a place that people were able to live surrounded by support and understanding, despite all their differences.
Well, it was VERY good, until Baek Sang Ho barged into Eun Ho's hospital room. The way he kidnapped Eun Ho doesn't…
While it is a bit questionable, it isn't complete nonsense. He was physically strong enough and it looked like he caught the police off guard. If his punch was enough to send the teacher coughing blood and a bloody nose, the force could knock the police out (given the objects the could have hit). Also, Eunho is very kind and doesn't like people getting hurt. He wouldn't disobey someone that has the power to kill his mom and harm everyone that gets in his way. When it comes to the lack of outside interference, the room has always been guarded and away from the public eye. The majority of hospital staff is also never shown around that room so it would make no sense for some random nurse to come now and most likely get killed. While it isn't completely realistic, I believe it presented the events in the most believable way possible why highlighting each character's personalities through their actions.
DNAs may be left on a scene in different ways than just fingerprints. Usually killers wear caps, masks and all…
You mean the technique or what left the DNA? It could have been spit of skin cells that fell from the face. I am not sure if this is the answer you were looking for but I tried :/
hmmm I think time is to thank for that huge gap between him at his lowest and during the beginning episodes of the show. The village helped him find a way to live and to breathe despite all that. Taught him how to carry on. I think he is able to do that because of how disconnected that place was from Seoul...the events that brought him so much pain and emptiness. I think they do highlight that progress. Him getting professional help, constantly looking at the photo, the nightmares, and even his great interest in medications and herbs related to various illnesses. I don't think it was a gradual change. I actually think...maybe he took off days to avoid being disturbed when he was feeling worse, that the waves maybe offered some form of comfort and constant. He was definitely guilt-ridden, but we just caught him at the middle of his recovery. It would be harder to believe that he was able to open up to all their knocking and accept all their worry if he was still in the same state that he was right? I'm sure seeing all the help, impact he was able to provide helped him start to forgive himself...of course that was before he was again cruelly reminded about how various lives were impacted. Even if it wasn't really his fault.
I think not placing a bomb that would suspensefully blow up was a good thing actually! I think they don't need to make it this terrible thing that is referenced throughout the story to keep us engaged. Nor was it something that was just randomly dropped into the plot. I think it suited the way he initially dealt with it. Not all stories are told, and i think as a viewer, it was important to see him as someone that did not need to be pitied. That the villagers were able to look past his tragic family event, look past whatever events he had, and accepted him back. I think that aided my belief as a viewer. That whatever he hid was not out of malice and that whatever he is going through will come out when he is ready.
I do agree that time is such a hard thing to portray in dramas, which is why pacing is such a big discussion. Though, I am not sure if she is healthy functional. I mean both had family issues and got into great schools and good careers. She was always mature for her age but also super rash and arrogant. I agree it was never flushed out completely but I think that is okay. Because the story centered more around how she changed with this village of people, rather than the story of a child that was growing past her neglect. Awkward as that lunch with her father was...I don't think she harbors any serious resentment given the family situation and it as likely resolved. Or at least smoothed over long before the moment these drama lenses were capturing.
hmmm . They were indeed far from ideal and the show did make them look rose colored for sure. But, that is because they also showed many moments where they weren't happy in those circumstances as well. As for the wife that took that guy back...she left him because she realized he never loved her and good for her for seeing that. But if he has realized he does and that he regrets not having seen that treasure of a relationship for what it was....and she is able to forgive him to be happy. I don't see why she shouldn't take him back. She loved him enough to take him back. Why? Because he finally loved her.
He wasn't always consistent but he did change and start to treat his wife better. I don't think the intensity of one or two moments in a character arc make it impossible to address those issues off screen. It is funny because both wives got tired of them and knew they were shitty to them. But they also saw them before aware and make moves to grow. I don't think they should be faulted for not having reached their destination if they did start. I know it doesn't change that they were shitty, but if the wife love and take them back...those issues become problems they solve together. We aren't forced to really accept anything. It was more seeing how their story would unravel for me. What choices would they make and why they were made. I guess my desire to justify any given choice a character makes and how it is so unconceivably opposite of mine. Don't get me wrong...if i was in their shoes, I'm dumping his ass next to the dumpster. But It also made me wonder what sort of person that choice would change for. That I can't really judge them and say for sure until I'm in that exact same position and forced to make a choice.
Similar to how the villagers all go through different things,, have different issues and are more accepting of people in spite of a lot. It made me wonder on the wives themselves if anything.
I loved My liberation notes!! It is interesting because when i had first watched this show...I didn't read anything or watch any trailers so I saw it as basically that . A "human drama with flawed characters trying to live their best each day, overcoming the prejudices and limitations, and still living on with some tears and a smile." I though the drama would be a drama of how she changes with this crisis and establishes herself in this new environment. How will it change her.
I guess our only real disagreement was our initial thoughts and expectations going into the drama.
I do agree with your point about the need to establish a childhood / past connection. Aside from the picture being taken by grandpa and him...I also questioned the need to really bring all of these connecting points together to (over) sell this magical sense of fate and destiny written in the stars. You are right. Their love was cute enough from just bantering and doodling over math problems.
Du Shik...haha I do agree that it might seem a bit spineless in regards to his life philosophy but I also think that it is (strangely) quite in his line of thinking. He moved a boat to the top of a hill because of his grandfather. He joined his friend at a job that conflicts his major. He runs and helps people around the village like a man who's day last 48 hours. I don't think it is that hard to believe he wouldn't do something for the girl he likes? He runs to her and breaks his rule of not working on his day off. He is also seen running to grandma and giving her a piggy back ride. I think he is such a people pleaser. We see that in his jealously when he feels unneeded during the producer's entrance. He wants to be useful and I think a lot of it comes from his desire to be loved. As much as Hye Jin takes pride in being a doctor dentist...he takes pride in being Chief Hong, village handyman. His parents died. His grandpa passed. He is someone that feels immense gratitude and supports the village that supported him. It was sweet. Seeing the way the village would rally to him for the memorial service and his birthday...how it mirrors the way he runs around doing errands for them. It was never a sense of obligation or repaying. He might have just always been like that :)
As for the whole money and elaborate spending. He does have opinions...expressed begrudgingly delivering her numerous packages. Teasing at her numerous dresses that she has likely never worn. Constantly poking at her obsession to be perceived a certain way by society. So why does he not react that way when she goes and buys that expensive necklace. It is because it is her money. Money she worked hard for and deserves to spend as she pleases. Was this a change in his behavior? I don't think so. As much as he pokes fun of her habits and lifestyle, he never asks her to change. Much like how he says life is just a problem and it is how you solve it that matters. That there is no right or wrong answer like those ksat questions...I don't think the show is ever trying to prove her lifestyle as wrong and uplift his opinion. We see him strive for similar success in his own past. It was simply showing us that there are various ways to live. That understanding and seeing that through the stories of the people in this village...having them resonate with her, would be a good way to deliver that message.
He knows her lavish lifestyle. Every instance of his anger and annoyance was towards her attitude towards other people. Not just people but the village people. He compares her to the spikes of the hedgehog so it is not like he doesn't know she has empathy. Just because he is minimalistic, doesn't mean he can't understand. He allows others to live their lives. I thought it was kind of cool actually. To see him reassure her regarding her own actions. That she didn't need to worry about him being like others who she would need to perform and tiptoe around.
I understand your opinion that he became different, but I don't think so. Take your food point for example. She is ass at cooking. Cool. The point was more that she cooked for him not how it tasted. The thought. He did bring up what he didn't like later. How she trashed his kitchen and that he would be doing the cooking from now on. Was this a change in his actions? No. He has always tried not to hurt people. In the beginning, we see Hwa Jeong sad because people were saying her grilled fish stinks. We see Chun Jae sad because his coffee is downright horrible. His response? Asking who said that. Telling the girl to stop dissing her dad's coffee. Does he definitely know her fish stinks? Very much so. Why is she finding out now? Cause he probably didn't have the heart to tell her. I think...not telling his gf she is bad at cooking is pretty consistent. Is he absolutely firm about some thing? For sure. Does that mean he can't see the world in gradient? I think there is room for both. Golf? I mean he also does math problems for her when he literally doesn't have to prove anything to anyone. He also play go with her dad to make sure things go well.
I also disagree on some of the Hye Jin stuff though. I think they addressed her change and motivations quite well. Someone that worked hard and had no time to invest in relationship and bonding...starved to work hard and succeed...she is someone who is very socially pressured. Constantly calculating and constantly thinking about her future. How did she go from someone like that to spending loads of money and having high pride? Well she reached her goal of being a dentist. What does this tell us about her? Well, I thought it said a lot. That she cared a lot about what others thought. That she took pride in herself and her abilities. I think the second lead being the foil that showed her past and present self was quite interesting. I don't think her ambitions taking the back seat is something so..bad? As much as she grew to love him...did she not also grow to love the village she lives in? Ambition didn't take the back seat, it just changed. In the same way his ambitions and goals change. She took pride in helping them and being the dentist that can provide them care. She integrated into this village that she grew to love. Them taking a break was something that shows her life does not revolve around him like the sun. She puts her foot down and advocates for what she wants. If she doesn't want it anymore...is that wrong? The show does a great deal to show the people that inhabit that village are all working to help improve it. It uses various plots to expand her understanding of the people there and her place...even role in it. I was happy for her. That she was able to imagine the rest of her life there. She is someone that plans according to the life expectancy...I don't think she would ever revolve her life decisions around a man. You refusing to believe that she will be happy living in this town all her life because that's not who she is...is a thought. I had similar discussions with friends. It isn't wrong because we won't know how her life plays out after those credits roll. For all we know, she breaks up with him and moves back to Seoul. But just because she lived her life one way, does not mean it is the only way she can live. Her choices are hers alone :) Just like how we went on about the lack of right and wrong.
I know the villager slut shaming and doing illegal referrals was on people's nerves. Lots of them were shameless. I got angry with for her and felt annoyance towards the villagers various times throughout. But I don't think there was any justifying being done in regards to her actions. That story simply explained why the villagers react the way they. Why they forgive those actions. Because they have seen her lows, which really prepares us for the same parallel of du shik. If you notice, lots of mistakes, even Hye Jin's initial blunder, were not at all justified. They were resolved because they understood, let go, and moved on.
Regarding your issues with the other relationships and character plots. They aren't all unwarranted as there is truth to lots of it. This is getting really long but the point isn't that these people are perfect. I think they are able to all forgive so much and be so understanding is because of these flaws. Are all people rational? Not really. I think...not kicking people at their lows is a great thing this show was able to put into their message. That mistakes are mistakes. Some not reversible and often costing tons of time, even lives. That regrets will remain.
I had said that it was comforting for me because of the village. It was not that the writing looked past all those issues. All those toxic relationships and complicated actions. It simply showed them through both povs. Why do I think Du shik was such an understanding person that was willing to be there? Because he likely wanted the same for himself. He knew the feeling of salt rubbing on a wound. I don't think the characters' complexities were justified to make them appear ideal. I think all those flaws showed that life is not ideal. The village was a place that showed how they learned to live with those flaw. Just because they were able to find it in themselves to be happy. To understand and see the good. I don't think that makes their situation ideal. I liked that. That they found the courage to be happy.
Sorry the show irked you and that it wasn't something you enjoyed. It was really cool to hear why and what specifically it was that made you feel that way. This became really long and sorry if it came off in an offensive way. I just thought it was interesting that your thoughts were very contrasting with the general public. I was honestly also a bit shocked at the mess that was some of their lives. I also adored the two very mature and open children. I just also grew to see them as people. I was able to see a way of life that wasn't my own traditional views of success and values. That for me was cooler than anything else. So it was quite comforting to know there was a place that people were able to live surrounded by support and understanding, despite all their differences.
While it isn't completely realistic, I believe it presented the events in the most believable way possible why highlighting each character's personalities through their actions.