FairyWren

I’m on the fence about both YiSeo and SooAh. If SooAh can ever pull herself out of whatever mental block she has about a relationship with SaeRoYi, fine. But right now, she can’t be there for him in a way that makes a healthy relationship work. I don’t hate her at all, and understand a lot of her viewpoint.
At the same time, they are each other’s first loves. She’s counting on the fact that SaeRoYi will never change. But, she’s already changed herself. People change. He will change, he’s already started to. Love can’t maintain itself on nothing, and unfortunately right now, she’s putting nothing into their love. If she can start doing that, I will root for them. To me, right now their relationship seems more like old feelings that neither is willing to let go of, but are already fading.
Gah, sorry. I think I’m frustrated because I want to root for them but can’t.

And I agree, we are focusing on their flaws a little too much, me included. But I think part of it is the characters are having such an impact on us, that analyzing the flaws helps me figure out why they are having so much on an impact on me, LOL

Part of what I loved so much about this last episode, is SaeRoYi’s cruelty. I know it sounds weird, but I liked the twist to his character here, and it just made him more real to me.

After seeing the preview for episode 10, all I can say is...

NO, MY PUPPY!!!!! Don’t go to the dark side.

I totally see what you mean. I think I’ve also just seen enough dramas and read enough romance novels where this type of situation comes up (he says he’ll let me make the decision, but won’t tell me what he really wants, or says he likes me but never makes a move) that it bugged me enough I went on a mini-rant, LOL.

I agree, the romantic relationship(s) in his life are definitely not his priority, getting his revenge is.

I think part of why I’m so invested in this show is all these characters are so complicated. I can’t wait to keep seeing them grow and change. Especially SaeYoRi. You’re absolutely right, he’s stuck in the past, in his tragedy. I want him to get the closure he needs, and be able to become truly happy.

Ugh. I think I’m obsessed with this show. I don’t normally get like this.

But I love every single one of these characters, the good, the bad, the annoying, the evil, the frustrating, and the puppy-like. They are so well built and intricate. They show stereotypical traits, but then surprise me in little ways. they make me both want to strangle them and hug them close to keep them safe. Even the more secondary characters, LOL.

Also, the scene when his brother comes to offer the job to YiSeo, my puppy has teeth! Yay!

Also, I realized one of SaeRoYi’s flaws (at least it’s a flaw to me). When it comes to personal relationships, he is both stupidly brave and a coward. “It’s her decision” and “I’ll let you be the one to define our relationship.” Each said to/about the girls in his life.

Respecting another’s space and decisions is all well and good (and a nice contrast to the possessive asshole characters we see) but sometimes the other party needs to feel secure enough to make those calls. If the other person (in this case SRY) doesn't provide that emotional security by saying what it is that they want for themselves, or show that they need and want that person person to stay or to be with them (because they don’t want to influence the decision or for whatever other reason) then that in itself influences the decision, usually in the direction of insecurity, and the person leaves.

He tells SooAh he likes her, but he’s always waiting for her to make a move. He admits he needs YiSeo as a manager(though not directly to her) but (at least as of now) won’t try to keep her.

He is extremely proactive when it comes to the bar and getting his revenge, but he is extremely passive when it comes to relationships.

Also, I love our little puppy even more in this episode. Sometimes I feel like he’s the ONLY one trying to understand YiSeo.
I mean, if you take a step back from the situation, from a business standpoint if not an emotional one, she’s not wrong. If you are working somewhere you think is making bad decisions, and you don’t understand, what’s so bad about speaking up. Hell, she even explained she was just trying to understand. SaeRoYi basically brushed her off, and co-workers saying she just needed to follow orders, just like in Jangga. Puppy was the only one who stepped up on her side, and I don’t think he did it just because he likes her. I think he truly understands her character and who she is, he sees through her. He also saw she had a valid point.
I’ve said before that SaeRoYi doesn’t really have anyone he feels he can lean on. But I see that YiSeo doesn’t really have one person who even tries to understand her. Except for puppy.
I love puppy. (No idea why, but I can never remember his name, LOL)

P.S. - from a business standpoint, SaeRoYi was absolutely correct, the best strategy for that situation was to drive more general traffic to the area, make it a place people wanted to go in general, create the foot traffic and buzz they need. But, it very was stupid of him to not discuss this strategy with everyone, especially if they are now incorporated, and I assume some of those people are part of the board and hold shares, since any corporation, no matter how small, has those.

One thing...

Steaming hot coffee. Yaaaassssss....


Also, based on what I’ve heard of the web toon, it looks like the writer is mixing things up enough that I’m not sure what direction the characters are going to take. *bites nails*

You and I are so very much on the same page on all of this. I’m pro YiSeo as well, just want her character to grow a little more emotionally, though she’s making so many breakthroughs. I f-love her.
And to clarify, I did go a little ranting, because I was mad how everyone jumped down YiSeo’s throat, including her friends in the show, who even though they didn’t say it aloud, showed very similar reactions to hers in everything. To me, YiSeo, with later learning and changing her mind and speaking up and offering to help, is the best of them all. I don’t think any of them are the hating sort of racist, but no matter their open mindedness, there are some ingrained wrong ideas from just being in that culture. And, yeah, you can’t assume someone’s nationality from skin color.
Also, high-five on the opinion on SooAh. Don’t hate her myself, and I have no problem with her doing what’s best for her, but I do hate that she’s keeping the poor guy on a leash practically, she needs to cut and let go.

I agree, the characters are really very similar when you take a step back - both extremely independent, practical, and realistic.

I think the main difference that leads me slightly to favor YiSeo is the active change she is showing in her character, and her ability to speak her mind, as harsh and cruel as can be. Of course, when you start out that bad, it's not hard to show change, LOL.

And I think it's telling that in recent episodes, SooAh notices how worked up SaeRoYi gets with YiSeo - it's a level of emotion he doesn't usually show. You can tell she's worried. Also, when she asks about her at the end of Ep. 8, and her little dig to YiSeo during their conversation after she gives her advice, then says "I'm not worries because he likes me." So, no, she never says she likes him or to wait for her, but you can tell she DOES want him to wait. She wants the reward without putting in the effort. I think that's the thing that gets me, and puts me off the idea of her ending up with him in the end.

Though, if she changes that, I think I'd jump on that ship. And you're right, as of now, YiSeo is not the right person for SaeYoRi. Both them need to change before they have my stamp of approval.

I'm strangely pro-YiSeo despite her massive (and yes, they are massive) faults, and I'm not even sure why, LOL. I think it's an instinctive reaction to wanting to see something different - no more "nice girl" gets the guy, or "happy land finally works out for the first love" - rather than me actually rooting for YiSeo as she is. Or maybe I'm just more invested in her character development. But as I said, I'm not sold on either of them. Hell, I want to slap both of them half the time, YiSeo with her smirks, and SooAh with her condescending little smiles.
This is the first time in a drama where I don't have a very clear idea of who he will end up with, or who I want him with. I'm in "wait and see" mode. I want SooAh to commit herself one way or the other, and I want YiSeo to grow up. Then we'll see...

(p.s. - despite my mini-rants, both of these characters also have moments where I absolutely adore them. And they are strangely similar in a lot of their aspects, both extremely independent and practical on certain matters. I like the digression from the usual FLs who have to be saved.)

If she was holding out because she knows what she wants, and knows she's worth it, that's a whole other attitude, and it wouldn't bug me as much. Instead, as you said, she's holding out because of fear and guilt. Which , yes, comes across as hypocritical. Only way to solve guilt and fear is to take responsibility for your actions (or inactions) and own up to them, do something to correct them. By her not doing anything, she's acting like she's somehow OWED something by SaeYoRi, even if she doesn't feel that way.
But, she also has one of the most difficult paths of any of the characters, I think. If she worked somewhere else, all of this would be a non-issue.
Eh, now I don't know what to think, LOL. Guess I just have to wait for more episodes, dang it.
And the fact they've changed up things from the webtoon (I found a video that explained a lot of the changes) really has me wondering how everything will turn out, despite spoilers from those who have read the webtoon. Ugh, I am so bad at waiting.

Think there’s lots of chemistry, it’s just not romantic. The emotion and tension is palpable between them, though it’s not a romantic passion. The chemistry with SooAh in comparison is luke-warm, even if they do like each other.

I predict it’s going to be a case of Saeyori falling in love with YiSeo later in the show. He’s still going to care about, admire, and like SooAh (that’s the way he is), but I think it will change from a romantic love to that of a friend.

I think Ep. 8 is the beginning of her turning point on that front, though I agree that as she is now, that would NOT be a healthy relationship - she’s too selfish, and her motivations all have to do with Saeyori. But he’s also the first person she’s ever empathized with or tried to understand. If she can grow from that, and learn to emotionally connect with even more people, be good to them for their own sake and not because of Saeyori, then that would be an ideal progression. If she remains only focused on Saeyori, then that’s definitely “danger, danger” time.

Personally, I’m really enjoying her character progression. And I appreciate that there is actual change in her, instead of a cut-out typical mean 2FL type persona. I also like how they’re showing that people can change, and make up for their wrongs, using her as an example (assuming her character makes progress)

I personally love the switch up of roles. And I adore YiSeo as a character, it’s nuances and progression. I also love that he is an idealist, but also strong. I could do with him being a little less “gentle” but again, I like the twist of him taking on a personality trait usually assigned to the female lead.

I LOVED the scene in ep. 8 where they went off on each other. It broke my heart a little when he ripped the tag off her chest, but I think it was a wake-up call that she needed. And I adore her for not backing down after that, but letting him know exactly why she’s reacting the way she is, instead of going off to pout in a corner. And despite the yelling and anger, they actually listened to each other, and tried to understand each other, even if it took a day or two and convos with others. I honestly can’t wait to see their character development together and separately. They play off each other and make each other grow, though there is definitely more growth on YiSeo’s part (she has the farthest to grow). I also liked how her words, though said with more emotion, echoed those of the older lady. Because they were both absolutely right. And he realized he needed to change his strategy.

To a degree I agree with you, though I absolutely love her as a character, she is extremely nuanced. But that debacle of a scene between her and puppy-boy was a bit much. If she had played it with a straight face, I would have liked it better.

To me, she has the emotional equivalent of a 5 y.o. Her breakthrough with some empathy about Saeyori’s scars was quite a moment. Even she admits she’s never actually tried to understand anyone before. Kids can be cruel. And a lot of it is they haven’t learned how to interact at an emotional level yet. I’m not saying this to excuse her behavior, I don’t like it, especially that particular scene, but I got to hand it to her, she’s trying to change. And that’s the beauty of people in general, they change. I want to see where she goes from here. That “strength” she has is all from her indifferent upbringing and inability to empathize. That’s starting to change as she comes to understand and appreciate Saeyori, who is a perfect example of a good person, a good role model, and is willing to call her on her s*#@, and strong enough to make her listen.

But, you’re right, if she keeps smiling and saying cruel things while trying to be “nice” then they’re not portraying her character well, and I’m going to have to rethink her.

And I have to say it. I went back and rewatched the most recent episode. When I hit the part at the club, I noticed something. Everyone, INCLUDING YiSeo, was upset when they said they wouldn’t let in Africans. Then, they ALL had the same “what are you saying, please be quiet” reaction when ToNi said he was Korean. It’s in their expressions. Even when dude (I don’t remember his name) stepped up to defend him, it was about him being called “bugger” and “why would you call him that when he’s right here?” not, “don’t use that word” or “don’t call him that”. There is a BIG difference between those two statements.

My take on that scene, YiSeo said out loud what everyone else was too “nice” to say, but actually thought. If you pay attention to the nuances, it’s clear. Only Saeyori seems to not care a bit about ToNi’s race, color or nationality.
So, everyone hating on YiSeo for that scene, think about THAT. I’d rather deal with someone matter-of-fact and straightforward than have a “friend” who is too “nice” to say to my face what they really think.

Her chosen words “How are you Korean?” were cruel. But with her tone of voice, it was almost like she was trying to make a point to him. I can guarantee that any one of you in the viewership and/or whatever, walking down the street and seeing a “ToNi” would NOT automatically assume he’s Korean. If you spoke to him and heard fluent Korean, at least 50% of you would think he was bi-lingual, the other 50% would wonder if he was raised in Korea or immigrated there at some point with his family because of their work or something. Maybe that 50% would wonder if he was mixed-race.

Again, the issue is bigger. YiSeo was pointing out a REALITY, as awful and unfair as that reality is. This woman is EXTREMELY practical and has the emotional equivalent of a 5 y.o. Because she said aloud what the others were thinking, she’s now a racist to the viewership, when in fact, all of them (with one or two exceptions) are racist as well they just held their tongues and stayed nice. Just, something for everyone to think about ...