even Koreans themselves do not understand why some foreigners are hating on this show and calling the producers…
Did you enlist the services of a cunning psychic to tap into the consciousness of every queer Korean person and determine their level of investment in this censorship?
The queer community is a global alliance that stands united in the battle for visibility and acceptance. Criticizing the censorship of Korean queer works isn't entitlement, it's a sign of international solidarity and support for queer Korean comrades in arms
Foreign queer advocates aren't speaking for Korean queer people when they criticize censorship. They are using their platform to raise awareness about an issue that affects the community internationally
"They have no tolerance and no PATIENCE for anything that even slightly differs from their world and they refuse to even try to understand"
A queer work was censored, because it didn't conform to mainstream norms. Censorship is a product of a cultural intolerance that needs to be called out and challenged. I'm Asian and I've seen the intolerance firsthand. Something slightly out of the heteronormative box gets shut down. We can't expect foreigners to be patient or tolerant of an intolerant culture
*Non-Asian people have their history of homophobia and censorship, but they're not the topic of this conversation
@ Fairytail Catastrophe So you want bad representation??????TF is wrong with you. It is problematic that you want…
Dear Readers,
I have blocked this individual because of their inappropriate behavior. I refuse to interact with someone who would callously label me a "pedo" or "fetishizer." Name-calling, strawmanning, and making assumptions about one's intentions serve no productive purpose in discourse
As a member of the community, I care about our representation and believe that all representation can be a step in the right direction, bad or good. People would debate it, it'd get people to think and engage with gay people's issues, which is a good thing
No representation is going to please everyone. There will always be people who disagree or find fault with it. It doesn't mean we should censor it
Differing opinions don't imply apathy towards the community. It's possible to disagree on how best to support our cause
"It's daunting how you said if the age of consent is 11 or 12 in certain countries it's okay and not !llegal or immoral"
Speaking of strawmanning, this individual didn't accurately represent my position. I did explain the differences in laws and ages of consent among countries, I did not make claims about the morality of such practices
Age of consent and age of majority are two different concepts. Age of consent refers to the age at which a person is legally able to consent to sexual activity. Age of majority refers to the age at which a person is considered an adult and has the legal rights and responsibilities that come with adulthood
The age of consent might be lower than the age of majority, which means that a minor who has reached the age of consent is legally capable of consenting to sexual activity with an adult
Basically:
In Korea, the age of consent is 16 and the age of majority is 19. A 17-year-old has reached the age of consent and is legally capable of consenting to sexual activity with an adult
Why would you want bad representation of us. I'd rather not have them make this bl if they are going to portray…
Age of consent and age of majority are two different concepts. Age of consent refers to the age at which a person is legally able to consent to sexual activity. Age of majority refers to the age at which a person is considered an adult and has the legal rights and responsibilities that come with adulthood
The age of consent might be lower than the age of majority, which means that a minor who has reached the age of consent is legally capable of consenting to sexual activity with an adult
"What if someone watched this and thinks it's okay to have a relationship with a 11 yr old"
Fictional stories can explore difficult or taboo topics without advocating for the harmful behavior itself
Someone who interprets a fictional story in a way that's different from the intended message might not go out and act on it in real life
Rightttt!!! That's exactly my point! A 17 yr old and a 47 year old is a cr!me. Can't believe people are defending…
It doesn't phase me. Deuk Pal couldn't control that his soul is in a teenager's body
The mental age doesn't mean that Deuk Pal/Yi Heon is using his experience to manipulate other teenagers. Having a more mature perspective could mean that he's more likely to be a respectful, responsible partner for Se Kyung
You're worried about creepy age gaps or elements in media? Ban/censor Disney princess movies. The princes were…
The use of emotionally charged language, such as "deluded," "manipulating," and "resonate with the cr33py trope," shows a strong emotional investment in the topic that's hindering your ability to evaluate the situation impartially
"Yeah I've commented the same thing about s3xu@l exploitation of minors on social media"
Your social media comments don't constitute "tangible action." Expressing yourself online can contribute to public discourse, but the term "tangible action" refers to concrete steps taken to effect change in real life. It's more than voicing one's views from behind a computer screen. Your self-identification as an online activist can be more accurately described as "keyboard warriorism"
don't act like you care about the source material in the first place, the novel literally flop on RB because not…
You can't blame a group of people for the failure of a novel. Most people didn't have access to the source material, or didn't know it existed. They can still care about the story or the issues of censorship and representation
This is why the gay parts should've been preserved. The adaptation of a source material is more accessible to a wider audience who might not have known about or had access to the source material. Censoring the gay parts of the novel in the adaptation means that fewer people will have the opportunity to experience the story as it was intended
calling people who watched and enjoyed this show homophobic is ludicrous.. so everyone who watches your beloved…
Straight relationships have always been present in children's cartoons. The presence of queer relationships in these cartoons isn't an "agenda," it's a reflection of the diverse world we live in. Children should see different relationships and identities to grow up with an understanding and acceptance of differences
Why would you want bad representation of us. I'd rather not have them make this bl if they are going to portray…
"Plus as for romance, if they could change the whole plot to straightwash it, they could also very much fix the age gap issue as well"
You're absolutely right. The producers had the power to alter the romantic plot, they could've used that power to make adjustments to the age gap. One possible change could've been to replace the 47-year-old's soul with the soul of a 17-year-old who dropped out of high school due to financial difficulties. Or the producers could've returned Yi Heon's soul to his body, allowing him to pursue his romance with Se Kyung
"There's nothing problematic about an old man saving a teenager from extreme homophobia lol? that could be the bare minimum the directors could do"
Absolutely right, again. The relevance of Yi Heon's sexuality shouldn't have been erased. He was bullied for being gay, and that was a critical part of his character's journey
"Don't start with that bs about being h0m0ph0b!c when i'm literally part of the community"Homophobia is like the…
It's not homophobic to want positive representation. It's problematic to demand that every gay story conform to your standards of morality or respectability. Gay people, like all people, have complex, varied experiences. Some of them are controversial or difficult to discuss, and it's okay to represent them
The issue isn't your personal standards. Society treats gay stories differently. Until that changes, until the vast majority of straight media is censored for its problematic elements, we need to fight against the censorship of gay stories that explore difficult themes
Why would you want bad representation of us. I'd rather not have them make this bl if they are going to portray…
Not every story or character will be a perfect representation of every person in the community. Representation matters, even if the story or characters are flawed
"That is illegal in the majority of the countries such as US, Korea, Bangladesh, Mainland China, Hong Kong, Australia, Albania, Morocco, Nepal, Nigeria, and the list goes on"
This is a lie. The age of consent varies widely by country or region, and there are exceptions to the laws. In some of the countries you mentioned, the age of consent is lower than 16 if the parties are married: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ages_of_consent_in_Asia
"The unrestricted ages of consent in Asia range between 13 and 18" "South Korea: 16, unrestricted China: 14, unrestricted Hong Kong: 16, restricted"
"The lowest age of consent is in Nigeria (11), followed by the Philippines and Angola (12). The age of consent is 13 in three countries, Niger, Comoros, and Burkina Faso"
In Korea, a 17-year-old can likely consent to a relationship with a 47-year-old, and it likely wouldn't be illegal
Fiction can explore difficult, controversial themes. A story depicting a relationship that would be illegal in some places in real life isn't automatically endorsing or promoting the relationship. It's up to the audience to interpret the meaning and messages of the story
Why would you want bad representation of us. I'd rather not have them make this bl if they are going to portray…
"Japanese isekai genre has a terrible image because it's usually a 30-40 something years old man in a teenage body creeping on 14 years old girls"
Straight media has been allowed to get away with problematic elements for far too long, while gay media is censored. We're not in denial. We recognize that the double standard shouldn't be tolerated
Merely claiming that you apply equal treatment to problematic gay and straight stories doesn't make it so. Your words are insufficient to convince me of it, in the face of a societal landscape that disproportionately targets gay media and relationships. If you wish to be taken seriously in your call for moral justice, your words should be accompanied by tangible action. Only when we see the same level of scrutiny and censorship applied to the vast majority of straight media and relationships, will your positions be credible
The age of consent in Korea is 16 (unrestricted). The relationship between a 17-year-old and a 47-year-old would likely be legal in Korea, although it might be considered inappropriate by some people. You don't consider the possibility that different people and cultures have different beliefs regarding age differences in relationships
The relationship between Se Kyung and Deuk Pal/Yi Heon isn't a relationship between a 17-year-old and a 47-year-old. The 47-year-old's soul entered the body of a 17-year-old. It's an unusual scenario, taking place in a fantasy setting where the rules and limitations of reality don't always apply, that should be considered in the context it's depicted in. We can't judge it by the standards of a usual relationship between individuals of these ages
They even lied about it and now they are defending the gross relationship
"Love for Love's Sake" or this novel isn't "pedo"
Using the term "pedo" as a blanket statement to describe every relationship involving young people is inaccurate and trivializes the real, serious harm caused by pedophilia. Use language accurately and responsibly
You're worried about creepy age gaps or elements in media? Ban/censor Disney princess movies. The princes were…
Merely claiming that you apply equal treatment to problematic gay and straight stories doesn't make it so. Your words are insufficient to convince me of it, in the face of a societal landscape that disproportionately targets gay media and relationships. If you wish to be taken seriously in your call for moral justice, your words should be accompanied by tangible action. Only when we see the same level of scrutiny and censorship applied to the vast majority of straight media and relationships, will your position be credible
They lied to me too, I was told that Yiheon was going to get his body back and be in a relationship with SeKyung…
"BL dramas are most likely made for homophobic straight cis women who are either fetishizing gay relationship or so immature they get jealous out of straight romance drama"
BL fans are a diverse group of people with different backgrounds, sexual orientations, and motivations. Some are drawn to BL for entertainment, others see it as a means of supporting and uplifting the only genre to meaningfully center gay relationships
BL can play a positive role in increasing representation and understanding of gay relationships, and should be given the same respect and consideration as any other genre of media. Mainstream media fetishizes women and straight relationships, and doesn't receive the level of censure or criticism that BL receives. It's not necessary to read deeper meaning into the content that BL fans consume for enjoyment or other reasons
he didn't date any girl in the drama, he told that girl to ask him again in two weeks cause he thought SYH would…
People are lurking. You're here, others are here. It's possible that the comment resonated with a lot of people and they decided to show their support by liking it
The queer community is a global alliance that stands united in the battle for visibility and acceptance. Criticizing the censorship of Korean queer works isn't entitlement, it's a sign of international solidarity and support for queer Korean comrades in arms
Foreign queer advocates aren't speaking for Korean queer people when they criticize censorship. They are using their platform to raise awareness about an issue that affects the community internationally
"They have no tolerance and no PATIENCE for anything that even slightly differs from their world and they refuse to even try to understand"
A queer work was censored, because it didn't conform to mainstream norms. Censorship is a product of a cultural intolerance that needs to be called out and challenged. I'm Asian and I've seen the intolerance firsthand. Something slightly out of the heteronormative box gets shut down. We can't expect foreigners to be patient or tolerant of an intolerant culture
*Non-Asian people have their history of homophobia and censorship, but they're not the topic of this conversation
I have blocked this individual because of their inappropriate behavior. I refuse to interact with someone who would callously label me a "pedo" or "fetishizer." Name-calling, strawmanning, and making assumptions about one's intentions serve no productive purpose in discourse
As a member of the community, I care about our representation and believe that all representation can be a step in the right direction, bad or good. People would debate it, it'd get people to think and engage with gay people's issues, which is a good thing
No representation is going to please everyone. There will always be people who disagree or find fault with it. It doesn't mean we should censor it
Differing opinions don't imply apathy towards the community. It's possible to disagree on how best to support our cause
"It's daunting how you said if the age of consent is 11 or 12 in certain countries it's okay and not !llegal or immoral"
Speaking of strawmanning, this individual didn't accurately represent my position. I did explain the differences in laws and ages of consent among countries, I did not make claims about the morality of such practices
Age of consent and age of majority are two different concepts. Age of consent refers to the age at which a person is legally able to consent to sexual activity. Age of majority refers to the age at which a person is considered an adult and has the legal rights and responsibilities that come with adulthood
The age of consent might be lower than the age of majority, which means that a minor who has reached the age of consent is legally capable of consenting to sexual activity with an adult
Basically:
In Korea, the age of consent is 16 and the age of majority is 19. A 17-year-old has reached the age of consent and is legally capable of consenting to sexual activity with an adult
The age of consent might be lower than the age of majority, which means that a minor who has reached the age of consent is legally capable of consenting to sexual activity with an adult
"What if someone watched this and thinks it's okay to have a relationship with a 11 yr old"
Fictional stories can explore difficult or taboo topics without advocating for the harmful behavior itself
Someone who interprets a fictional story in a way that's different from the intended message might not go out and act on it in real life
The mental age doesn't mean that Deuk Pal/Yi Heon is using his experience to manipulate other teenagers. Having a more mature perspective could mean that he's more likely to be a respectful, responsible partner for Se Kyung
"Yeah I've commented the same thing about s3xu@l exploitation of minors on social media"
Your social media comments don't constitute "tangible action." Expressing yourself online can contribute to public discourse, but the term "tangible action" refers to concrete steps taken to effect change in real life. It's more than voicing one's views from behind a computer screen. Your self-identification as an online activist can be more accurately described as "keyboard warriorism"
This is why the gay parts should've been preserved. The adaptation of a source material is more accessible to a wider audience who might not have known about or had access to the source material. Censoring the gay parts of the novel in the adaptation means that fewer people will have the opportunity to experience the story as it was intended
You're absolutely right. The producers had the power to alter the romantic plot, they could've used that power to make adjustments to the age gap. One possible change could've been to replace the 47-year-old's soul with the soul of a 17-year-old who dropped out of high school due to financial difficulties. Or the producers could've returned Yi Heon's soul to his body, allowing him to pursue his romance with Se Kyung
"There's nothing problematic about an old man saving a teenager from extreme homophobia lol? that could be the bare minimum the directors could do"
Absolutely right, again. The relevance of Yi Heon's sexuality shouldn't have been erased. He was bullied for being gay, and that was a critical part of his character's journey
The issue isn't your personal standards. Society treats gay stories differently. Until that changes, until the vast majority of straight media is censored for its problematic elements, we need to fight against the censorship of gay stories that explore difficult themes
"That is illegal in the majority of the countries such as US, Korea, Bangladesh, Mainland China, Hong Kong, Australia, Albania, Morocco, Nepal, Nigeria, and the list goes on"
This is a lie. The age of consent varies widely by country or region, and there are exceptions to the laws. In some of the countries you mentioned, the age of consent is lower than 16 if the parties are married: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ages_of_consent_in_Asia
"The unrestricted ages of consent in Asia range between 13 and 18"
"South Korea: 16, unrestricted
China: 14, unrestricted
Hong Kong: 16, restricted"
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/world/ages-of-consent-around-world-countries-laws-b1061907.html
"The lowest age of consent is in Nigeria (11), followed by the Philippines and Angola (12). The age of consent is 13 in three countries, Niger, Comoros, and Burkina Faso"
In Korea, a 17-year-old can likely consent to a relationship with a 47-year-old, and it likely wouldn't be illegal
Fiction can explore difficult, controversial themes. A story depicting a relationship that would be illegal in some places in real life isn't automatically endorsing or promoting the relationship. It's up to the audience to interpret the meaning and messages of the story
Straight media has been allowed to get away with problematic elements for far too long, while gay media is censored. We're not in denial. We recognize that the double standard shouldn't be tolerated
Merely claiming that you apply equal treatment to problematic gay and straight stories doesn't make it so. Your words are insufficient to convince me of it, in the face of a societal landscape that disproportionately targets gay media and relationships. If you wish to be taken seriously in your call for moral justice, your words should be accompanied by tangible action. Only when we see the same level of scrutiny and censorship applied to the vast majority of straight media and relationships, will your positions be credible
The relationship between Se Kyung and Deuk Pal/Yi Heon isn't a relationship between a 17-year-old and a 47-year-old. The 47-year-old's soul entered the body of a 17-year-old. It's an unusual scenario, taking place in a fantasy setting where the rules and limitations of reality don't always apply, that should be considered in the context it's depicted in. We can't judge it by the standards of a usual relationship between individuals of these ages
It's not illegal, or immoral
Using the term "pedo" as a blanket statement to describe every relationship involving young people is inaccurate and trivializes the real, serious harm caused by pedophilia. Use language accurately and responsibly
BL fans are a diverse group of people with different backgrounds, sexual orientations, and motivations. Some are drawn to BL for entertainment, others see it as a means of supporting and uplifting the only genre to meaningfully center gay relationships
BL can play a positive role in increasing representation and understanding of gay relationships, and should be given the same respect and consideration as any other genre of media. Mainstream media fetishizes women and straight relationships, and doesn't receive the level of censure or criticism that BL receives. It's not necessary to read deeper meaning into the content that BL fans consume for enjoyment or other reasons
The relationship or the age gap is a subjective matter that depends on your beliefs. You believe it's creepy and messed up, others might disagree
In June 2020, the South Korean government began the process of transitioning away from the traditional age system and towards the international system. Is the story set in present-day Korea? The drama was released in 2024, it’s puzzling why the Korean age system would be in use: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/jun/28/south-koreans-become-a-year-or-two-younger-as-country-changes-system-for-counting-ages
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