Jasprin

Hi~~ glad to have you here to share with us your POV about this series that we all love so much!

Answering briefly about your complaint, we had a discussion a few days ago and the montages are probably CGI instead, due to AI limitations of long-length video scenes consistency and the cost would be probably higher than a normal established CGI technology.

We also calculated the amount of money for a few background guys and it could be really bigger than we think, considering that in Hengdian they usually hire professional actors even as extras and there a lot of other dramas being filmed at the same time, offering not only daily salaries, but also free meals, free transport and free accommodations. So, they couldn't offer much less than the usual market, or it would not be well seen within the professional circle. Also, we can not forget that filming a war scene would take more days renting a new set just exclusively for this scene for one episode, more rented clothes and accessories, and make-up artists daily salaries and we can go on imagining other costs that we are not used to think everyday.

The other actors like the Jibei emperor and the maids were working in other roles, like he was one of Shu He's kingdom guards and the maids were the same in both kingdoms. Also, we can't forget too that even Shen Song's actor was actually one of the screenwriters, and another screenwriter was also working as the figure dolls vendor during Shu He's escape scene on ep11, for example. Their budget was so low that the production team was cameoing there.

The choice of making only 12 episodes was also due this budget constraints, and they almost didn't finish the filming because of a strike on Hengdian. If they couldn't wrap the series on that day, they probably wouldn't be able to rent another day to finish later.

So, we hope this helps to clarify a little bit about their hardships and understand why the final series came as it is.

We are all also very glad that even with all this, they could deliver this touching story for us. Take care <3

Hi, Maaaar~~~ good to hear from you again! <3

I can't really tell CGI and AI apart, since they are both digital generated. But my last knowledge is that even paid AIs today can't make videos for films like that. Let's confirm on Google briefly.

"Although AI is a powerful tool in the film industry, its use in full-length films is limited by the short durations of the generated clips (only 8 to 20 seconds) and the difficulty in maintaining continuity. It's current use is already widely used in the industry for visual effects (VFX), trailer creation, and workflow optimization, but for full-length films, the challenge lies in creating long scenes and cohesive scripts that retain the human creative vision. The best results still requires extensive human curation and editing, as also consumes a significant amount of computing power, which contributes to the cost and processing time."

So, the war scene is very likely full-CGI, because with AI technology limitations and prices right now, it is for sure cheaper. And we had a budget limitation here.

And, considering all the discussion before, CGI and it's green screen already took the extra actors jobs starting since the 80s, until it's more common use after 2000s. So, unless we also oppose to the CGI possibility from every movie from the last 25 years, a scene per CGI or AI is the same thing. People and scenarios are digital-made and no extra actors are 100% needed for that part of the production.

In my POV, we can't treat them differently anymore. AI in the end is only an optimization tool for the process that already exists. *shrugs*

Thank you for attending my podcast lol

Sorry, I'm arriving late and kinda sleepy, so i didn't read it all. But wanted to give my two cents in the discussion (not wanting to rekindle any fire here, just need to add my point of view).

I understand pikku worries about actors losing job opportunities because of productions choosing AI over real-person to reduce costs. It is a real worry, and I feel that. This is a threat for a lot of jobs, not only for actors but visual artists, writers, and so on, since such huge companies want to increase their profits even if AI doesn't deliver the same quality a real person would give.

But the girls were insisting on the arguments because in KTL this is not exactly the case. It is not they choose AI over people. It's just they couldn't afford to pay more people.

I think I have enough experience to talk in behalf of the actors being paid with meals and low budgets, because, yes, I was one of them on my 20s during my musical theater phase.

pikku, the truth of things is: low pay and meal argument, it is only viable within -amateur- circles. In those circles, there are a lot of reasons why we accept that like: having very little experience (or none at all), so we can't ask much; having other main jobs, so our schedule is really tight, or even we see this as something for fun/self-improvement/socializing/joining friends, etc. Usually, there is another reason to make this effort, that is not financial, so, we invest our time in something it will give us a return different from money, willingly.

In general, those productions are the kind where we rehearse inside garages or at a place that an uncle's of someone's cousin's friend, has a place where we can all gather and organize our stuff. There is almost none or very little investment or support from any side besides our own efforts, and sometimes we are happy when we gather enough to at least mean we don't PAY to do this work.

I could go on here, but it gives an idea already. Receiving this kind of return is only acceptable in circles where people are doing this for other primary reasons besides money. They know that is somewhat a hobby where you will spend on and not get anything real from it and it will be fun while it lasts.

So, given that, about KTL production, they may be a young production team and somewhat inexperienced, but they want to be PROFESSIONAL. And, therefore, they need to follow the professional expectations of them. I saw some calls for extra actors in Hengdian social medias profiles, for example, and you could say: get one of those actors and pay little because they want so much to be in a drama for fun that they won't mind.

Well, it doesn't work that way if you want to be respected as a professional team. No matter the actor experience, if this is a serious production, they need to be paid accordingly. And it is not a random value decided on the production budget, but this must respect what the market usually offers, or else the actors will choose another place to work, not with you.

To begin, I just saw here that -usually- to be an extra on Hengdian China, you must have an actor's certificate. So, the first issue: you won't be anybody. You're a professional from the start (it seems non-actor's can also be chosen, but they still need to fill some forms and be accepted within the actor's circles and have government authorizations).

Now, just got some values for you to have a feeling about the costs. From some announcements here, I see production teams offering core benefits like: free meals and accommodations in Hengdian and reimbursed travel expenses for selected candidates. Randomly, after checking some posts, I can say the daily salary could go from like 200-1000yuan a day, depending on the importance of the character you got after the interview.

So let's expand this calculation, but simplified. Actors costing 1000 won't be many, so let's say a mean payment of 400/day for the crew. A full war scene could take no less than 50 people and 3 days of filming to organize, so let's keep 3. That would be already 60 000 yuan for only the daily payments, without food, accommodations and travel. I'm not also considering the extra 3 days of renting the set place, or clothes/armor for 50 people, or payments for make-up artists to get everyone ready at the same time to film, or more horses, more accessories like swords ... Anyway, what I want to say, is that we have no clue at all of the real costs. But certainly adding more people can't be cheap at all.

KTL reused extras in both kingdoms, the maids were the same everywhere, the emperor was a guard, probably the whole crew wasn't much more than 20-22 people (considering the main leads). Just think of the scene where we need more people, the attack of Shu Qian to take the throne... They would probably use the maximum amount possible to make it look better, but how many guards were there? I think they were two lines of 8 people, so 16 at most. That alone is a portrait of how much they were trying to reduce their costs.

I understand why you don't like AI, but you must remember that AI is like a knife. If this knife is a tool to help you eat, or a weapon for you to kill someone, it depends on how you use it. For big companies, they may use it to murder actor careers. But for KTL it was the only tool available for them to do a scene that it was crucial to show Ziang's war campaign, that is a pivot point of what happened during those 5 years they were just making a draft narrative because they couldn't afford to film it for probably very serious reasons that we don't even know. It was a sacrifice and also a strategic decision they had to make to finish the project for us.

Maybe what all the girls were trying to say was just asking you to be a little bit more fair and empathic to this production hardships and not put them in the same basket of those who respects more money than art.

Hope I was clear enough on my argument and sorry about the huge answer.

Glad to have you here and thank you for your point of view. <3

Happy New Year, everyone!!! I am so happy to have met you all last year, and I surely plan to still be here in 2026! Let's keep supporting each other through our AngHe and Xujin love <3 feel free to reach me anytime also, I'm always open to talk about my favorite drama ever

Kisses <3

Can't help myself, I need to say moooooreeee!! XDDD

I truly love ZiAng toooo~~~~ (I have such a soft spot for villain-characters-like)

Regarding Shu He, I understand that Zi Ang never really has the intent of being a villain for him. He killed his brother? But that was the only way to keep Shu He alive (escaping wouldn't last long anyway). Eliminating his kingdom? But being Emperor was something Shu He never wanted and wished to be free of it in the first place. And that rambling goes on, I can find arguments for almost anything he did lol

But in the end, Zi Ang makes a mistake that a lot of ppl irl do (and that makes him a character truly REAL) that is taking action doing what they think is the best for the one they love, but not exactly noticing that the things that that person wants now are something else. I don't really think as a manipulation or gaslighting thing, but rather a particular (maybe somewhat egocentric) point of view.

But he was good enough to realize that he did wrong, and that devastated him. True egocentric or bad/manipulating people hardly ever accept that. But he knows he screwed up so much, he realizes it's unforgivable, but doesn't even know what to do anymore.

My eyes are near to give away tears just thinking about it again hahahahah

When he confesses to Huai Yi that he lost Shu He for real is one of my favorite moments, it is so touching. He wants to let Shu He be free, but it is too late and he doesn't even have strenght left to do anything anymore.

From here on, he was completely at Shu He's will, and that was a beautiful thing also. All he always wanted was not only have him, but to have another chance to give himself to that relationship.

I DEEPLY love that the complexity of their emotions and decisions are nothing near ordinary. That reflects the beauty of the acting and the writing. If the whole production team was able to do something that meaningful and touching, even with its flaws, and being just recently graduated... Who knows what they can do with more experience??? Can't help myself, truly look forward to it! <3

Happy New Yeaaaaaaar! <3

I lost the original comment, but all I can say is: Let's have fun together, a lot of us here loves to give our POV and read them from others, everyone has their own minds and the most beautiful thing is that we all agree that our hearts were touched by this story, enough to stay here for so many months later still talking about it and anxious to see newcomers thoughts <3

thanks for sharing yours <3

I'm loving this 'real-time' feedback hahahahah come back when you finish to give us your thoughts XDDDDD

Yerisina! <3 Happy to hear from you again!!! Thank you for the reply, hope you are well <3

Well, at least that was my POV. I wonder if @Yerisina or @MarazulOX (or even others) have any additional comments to say about that? :)

Miss you all and our talks in these holiday times. <3 Hope everyone is well.

Ok, since I spent a long time pissed with Shu He for the same reason, let me defend him a bit XDDDD

1. We must first understand that after Shu He decided to accept his feelings and have a relationship with Zi'Ang, he became very honest with him. He spilled his plans and put all his cards on the table to be seen. He wished deeply no secrets between them anymore and also said clearly that if Zi'Ang dared to do anything bad to his brother or his kingdom, he would never forgive him.

2. On the contrary, due to his fears and more, Zi'Ang did not do the same. He felt the urge to, but he was always or clueless about things or waiting for the best time, and we all know that -timing- was not on their side.

3. No matter how bad his brother was, Shu He loved him deeply. Loved him enough to be willing to die by his hands. We all understand Zi'Ang and his wish to protect who he loves, so why have we a hard time accepting that Shu He has the same wish? The thing is that Shu Qian is a villain, a killer who we judge, but let's get the straight reality: Zi'Ang is also a killer. In this matter, they are no different from each other, just different targets and ways of doing so. If Zi'Ang can be loved, it's unfair not to consider Shu Qian also worthy of being loved and unfair not to consider Shu He's will of keeping his brother alive.

4. When Huai Yi told Shu He that Zi'Ang killed a lot of Nan Hui people, he took some time to believe, but Huai Yi touched his weak point about being too soft. Indeed, which choice he had then? Zi'Ang had lied and omitted too much from him before. It would not be a surprise if he had done that again.

Ok, with all that mentioned, let's wrap it up.

1. He was a prideful prince and meant to kept his word. Not without even warning.
2. Zi'Ang lost all the timing where he could have been sincere to Shu He (who gave openings for the truth to be told). So, he hurt him a lot with omissions and lies.
3. Zi'Ang killed his brother coldly and cruelly enough to even say he was satisfied to do so, disregarding Shu He's love for his brother.
4. He was misled to think that even after all that time, Zi'Ang still were not able to respect his wishes for the people he loved to live well.

Of course I could find more arguments, but that's enough for us to understand some of his hate and revengeful feeling. Whatever Zi'Ang sacrified, he never asked for that and he can't be blamed for the Ji Bei emperor's decisions to see him again, when he had the right to decide for himself not to see him ever again.

So, we are conditioned to believe that only through revenge he could bear to hurt Zi'Ang enough to kill him using his own life.


----But, let's see beyond this: JinJin said in a Q&A vlog that Shu He was deceiving himself with the revenge argument and I also think that. It was his pride talking, trying to justify to himself that this is the right thing to do: 'settle the scores'.

Shu He knew Zi'Ang was so spent that he would not be able to survive his loss. He was sick and unable to decide anything for himself at that point at ep12. But in truth, if Shu He hadn't any feelings anymore, he could have just let Zi'Ang die thinking he had lost him, forever in despair and regret.

In the end, what he really did? He could not even bear the thought of seeing him die. He trampled his own hate for Zi'Ang and for himself, to give them both their last wish: one ordinary day as simply lovers.

What kind of revenge is that? He really has a gentle soul, revenge does not sound good on him at all.

Shu He knew that Zi'Ang's love caged both of them without other way out besides having 'a new life'. He wanted freedom. But he also wanted Zi'Ang, who was just a step away from dying. Choosing his own death and taking his lover with him was more of an act of mercy and atonement than something else.

He promises "let's start over again" to someone who he loved so desperately, that he dared to give freedom for both of them, so they would finally be forever together, away from all that mess.

I understand your question about Zhexu. Actually, the director said in an interview that they had Mi Jin's acting direction for Shu He very clearly from the beginning, but they were struggling to find the rightful one for Zhe Xu's Ziang. They found their pace later, and that's probably why in the later episodes, mostly after ep8 I think, Ziang's character started to shine much more.

We need to remember that you can surely be an amazing actor, but the final say in the scene mood is shaped by the director's hand. The whole production team is very young, with some of them that graduated not too long ago, and they were learning during this drama, so mistakes are bound to happen. But they surely found the path that they wanted to by the last episodes. Too bad they were too short on money to fix what they already had done before that.

Even so, it became a memorable c-drama for all of us, so please stay firm and stay with us to the end. We will be waiting for your final review. :)

In an interview, the cast explained that since they didn't have enough resources to film the novel properly, they decided to be only inspired by it (using 20% into the actual series plot, at most).

So, names changed, characters dissapeared, new characters shown up to fill the gaps, and so on.

I've read some chapters and it's really inspired only. For example, Ziang's equivalent character was actually sent by the Crown Prince to eliminate Shu He's equivalent, Li Congjia, who at that time was already married with someone else. So going further into the story, their relationship was actually an affair at first. That alone, changes their dynamics a lot.

And the ending, even if as tragic as the series one, they didn't died at almost the same time, but Ziang's character went first by poison and Li Congjia several months later of sickness.

So, if you intent to read for some curiosity it's ok, but if the goal is to feel them more, maybe it won't help. ^^;;;;;

In the end, I think our boys did a really unique interpretation of their own to this series, and I didn't feel as the two, novel and series, were deeply connected anymore. So it didn't quenched my anxiouness for more, unfortunatly. ^^;;;;;

Perfect description as always <3<3 thank yooou

I liked it more that way, escaping from all normal dramas stereotypes of:

* Having a "white moonlight" or second interest to disrupt things and divide attention;
* Trying to rush/begin affection between characters or intimate scenes with one or both being dr*gged or... you know what;
* Just a fast and enough jealousy moment during the arranged marriage thing with the intention of moving the plot and their relationship forward, instead of messing things up and delaying the true emotional tension that was pulling each other;
* I know everyone enlights Zi Ang's "red/black flag", but come on, he NEVER crossed the line and forced more physical touch without checking Shu He's approval (I don't consider the first kiss forceful, because Shu He clearly accepted it);
* And so on, there is more that I didn't remember now, for sure.

Actually, this last point is the biggest green flag to me. I've watched dozens and dozens of "red flag" main leads who holds necks forcefully, threaten the other party to agree with them with psychologic games, guns, knives, bombs (I remember seeing one placing a bomb to kill all the friends and family in a forced marriage!) and go on, I'm sure anyone reading this can find more examples.

I know he didn't respect literally everything that he should to, hurting his loved one in the process obviously, but that's life and human relationships. Sometimes, people we love want to protects us so much that they start doing what they think it's best for us, but they're simply wrong, because the best intentions of one person, not necessarily corresponds to the wishes of the target (saying by my own experience, btw).

I also want to add that, at the second part, seems that people forget that they are -enemies- now and it's inevitable that they clash and hurt each other deeply, even thou they still yearn a lot. In the end, for me, he respected much more than I thought he would first when I saw his "villain" flag in the trailer. This troubles me so much, that I have a hard time giving him one or any flag color, because even if Zi Ang's more labelled as obssessive, he is sick, he knows he is dying and his desperate feelings and wishes become much more deep than a label that.

KTL team, instead of giving us more of the same receipt, gave us a passionate and tragic story of two people in a love desperate struggle against the world and even part of themselves.

A precious and unique love story that I hardly see around. I even wonder when I will ever see again, truly. <3

(Re-reading, suddenly I feel this sounded almost as a review lol)

More like lovers to enemies XDDD but we got your point and agree

I remember the feeling the first time I watched, like I was a poor rock rolling down the whole Everest, never finding the ground hahahaha every episode I was telling myself "this situation can't get any worse, right? RIGHT?".

Suuuuuuure. XDDDDD

Ok, let's go again.

The only age confirmed so far (that I remember at least) is Shu Qian that died with 24 years old (as mentioned on episode 9 narrative). Important points that I noticed so far:

- 17 years that Huo Ying is beside him: they met when he was 7yo:

-- Huo Ying came from the Crimson Shadow Guard Camp, so he was from Ji Bei. Shu Qian with 7yo, could not do more than watch and learn about combat. So, I will put a polemic question here, he "saved" Huo Ying or "kidnapped" him from the camp? Because, it is implied Huo Ying is always serving the prince "at night" and that no one has ever seen him do so. It seems to me that Shu Qian was too young to fight, but old enough to wish for a secret shadow guard for himself.
-- Somewhere in the beginning episodes, it was mentioned that the CSG has been long gone, Shu Qian was surprised hearing about them after Zi Ang's arrival at Shu He's palace. So, that may imply that they thought this raid exterminated them.
-- Let's remember that Huo Ying grew up thinking that he is a "choosen" orphan, raised and trained by Shu Qian (and mostly brainwashed, sigh). But his family is alive and well in Ji Bei, so everything that Shu Qian told Huo Ying about his past can be a lie. Being a "survivor" of the camp's extermination, he was probably too young to remember the truth about this but old enough to remember being saved, so I would put him around 4 yo, more or less the age our first long-term memories are made and old enough to start being obediently trained and hidden.

- 10 years from Duan's family extermination: so when Shu Qian led this, he was only 14 yo (!).
- 5 years ago is when Huo Ying starts serving Shu He, so Shu Qian was 19.
- Prime Minister Gu served two emperors: So he is at least more than 25 years in power, getting the older emperor before Shu He's father.
- Shen Song mentions in episode 1 he is only one year younger than Zi Ang.
- According to the novel, when Shu Qian gave the Qin string, Shu He was 16. Huo Ying doesn't seem to be his guard.
- When Shu He gained the royal brocade and the box with the string was thrown away, Huo Ying was with him already.
- Shen Song and Shu He age seems really close...
- Huai Yi is probably the youngest of all. To be fully ordained as a monk, he would had to have reached maturity, typically the age of 18 or 20.

- Even if we don't know when Prime Minister Gu made his move to kill Shu He's mother, surely is before Duan's family fall, since Zi Ang rescued him. Let's dig more here in those years:
-- Shu He doesn't mention being a prince when he was saved (Zi Ang only "finds out" when they arrive at the Sixth Prince Palace after coming back from the monastery).
-- It is mentioned they played some time together, but it doesn't seem too much time between the rescue and new separation.
-- During the awkward carriage talk between Shu He and Huai Yi, our beloved Sixth Prince mentions he played Guqin in Duan's house as Zi Ang's friend.
-- So, that's a point that intrigues me. That information implies that Zi Ang must have hidden Shu He into the cabin, but even so, they escaped to the main house enough time for Shu He meet Huai Yi or maybe he took Huai Yi with him to the cabin? Both is ok, I guess. Anyway, it is mentioned that General Duan was in a war campaign, so probably the only person who could have identified Shu He as a prince is not around on both cases.
-- So, one day, the Emperor's soldiers find Shu He in the forest cabin. Let me put another polemic question here: the treason accusation was never explained. WHICH treason Duan's family was accused for? I don't remember this being mentioned, but let's think straight: the prince that was lost for probably weeks, suddenly appears into a forest cabin that is probably Duan's property. How the soldiers found him? Maybe after one of his visits at the main house? Maybe following Duan? Who knows. That's a possibility.
-- Going even further, I would say this can be correlated and that part of the accusation can be a prince kidnapping or something. So, I would place the Duan's fall short after Shu He's rescue from the cabin.


So, let's make some calculations. When Shu He assumed the throne, they were at the "25th year of the Great Xiao Era" what implies that his father probably assumed the throne one year before Shu Qian was born, so starting with a 1 (+/-):

Other dynasty - Prime Minister Gu was already into the politics and serving the previous emperor
No details how the Xiao's family assumed the throne
Year 1 - Shu Qian and Shu He's father assume the throne
Year 2 - Shu Qian is born
Year 3 - Counting as he is 1 year old here and beyond
Year 3 - Possible year of Duan Ziang's birth
Year 4 - Possible year of Shen Song's birth
Year 4 - Possible year of Shu He's birth (according to the novel, Li Congjia's birthday was the day of the Qixi Festival)
Year 5 - Possible year of Huo Ying's birth
year 7 - Possible year of Huai Yi's birth
Year 9 - Shu Qian (7yo) "saves" Huo Ying (4yo) from the Crimson Shadow Guard Camp. CSG is "exterminated" by the South Kingdom
Year 15 - Shu He's (11yo) mother's death and they met each other (Zi Ang 12yo)
Year 16 - The Imperial Guard found Shu He (12yo) at the cabin and took him (Zi Ang 13yo). Shu Qian (14yo) led Duan's family extermination and assumed the Imperial Guard command. Zi Ang (13yo) was saved by the Crimson Shadow Guard and taken to Ji Bei. Huai Yi (9yo) went to the monastery
Year 20 - Shu Qian (18yo) gave the Qin string to Shu He (16yo). Huo Ying (15yo) doesn't seem to be his guard
Year 21 - Shu Qian (19yo) sends Huo Ying (16yo) to Shu He's (17yo) side
Year ?? - Somewhere here, Shu He gained the royal brocade and the box with the string was thrown away. Hard to say when, exactly
Year 25 - Shu Qian dies with 24yo

So, the ages when Shu Qian died:
Shu Qian - 24 years old
Duan Zi Ang - 23 years old
Shen Song - 22 years old
Shu He - 22 years old
Huo Ying - 21 years old
Duan Huai Yi - 19 years old (let's in the middle (lol))

Ages at the time lapse:
Duan Zi Ang - 28 years old
Shen Song - 27 years old
Shu He - 27 years old
Huo Ying - 26 years old
Duan Huai Yi - 24 years old

What do you think guys? Any thoughs? I'm curious if all this thinking of mine made any sense. XD

I'm also thinking about that question and the age dates :) maybe I can give you some thoughts later today <3 hahaha

May I add my view?

Even with all Ji Bei kingdom general scheming and long-term full dominance plans, Ji Bei Crown Prince seemed to be a responsible and trained ruler. Even inside the carriage during his return before dying, he was thinking about the people and a possible future famine if he did not act fast against the locusts (and we know the famine happened to the South Kingdom soon after).

Ji Bei tradition is mentioned several times during the series and seems to be very ingrained into the script "one son in the open and one in the shadows".

ZA wasn't aware of his heritage. If JB CP really didn't want to have him as a possible rival, it was easy to solve that. When ZA came to leave the guard for Shu He, all he had to do was agree.

The marriage was a scheme to control Shu He, because if he became emperor with a Ji Bei person by his side, it would be easier for him to unite the kingdoms. And that's why he even saved Shu He during the banquet. After noticing how deep the bond between ZA and SH was, he just gave up that idea because he knew, somehow, that he already achieved what he wanted.

When his uncle mentioned that ZA wasn't able to stay in the guard, he ignored the suggestion and even said "that's my brother, always choosing the most difficult path". Sounded even proud.

And when ZA wanted to leave? He revealed his heritage and invited him to rule together.

I don't think it was in his plans at all poisoning him or thinking ZA as threat for it. Instead, he had the example of the close relationship between his father and his uncle and somehow I feel he yearned for that dual-bond to reign was well. It seemed the rightful path in his eyes, as he mentioned he was willing to wait for ZA and thought he would come for him eventually anyway.

Embrace yourself for the ride. We will be here for you when you're done <3 *hugs*

you mean, wiped again? hahahahhahaahahaha he did that during the fanmeeting XDDDDDDDD