Kochase

Lol poop scenes in Thai dramas are a thing? I had no idea haha. I've only just started watching Thai BL dramas because school settings were not my thing (and that was all that was pretty much available beforehand).

Yeah thank goodness they didn't add in some repressed trauma crap. Not everyone who reacts a bit differently has to have trauma for goodness's sake. People with 'normal' so to speak upbringings can have things they're irrational about. And on that note, yup I think it's made progress ahead of a lot in the industry. I dropped canonical BL content for a long while because of the tendency to have binary themes for conflict - either 'rapey things are sexy, no means yes' or 'oh they suffered something traumatic so that's why they're homophobic but they're really gay' or something ridiculous.

I'm happy to move on to more casual drama, like the Aey disaster waiting to happen lol. And the whole fan mob is a very real situation that they can milk properly. It'll be a bit melodramatic, but hopefully a satisfying kind and not cringey.

It *is* a fine line for them to walk. Given I think they want this kind of message and discussion to reach a certain portion of the community, they need to make the show still attractive enough to that kind of audience for them to take notice. Otherwise the commentary is just preaching to the choir. So props to them for taking on such a challenge.

Ok so the childhood backstory clarifies some things, but I'm definitely glad we're moving past that.

IMO, the backlash over their age difference and how the portrayal of them as children is disturbing seems a little unwarranted. First of all, they *do* have a large age difference. It would be weird if they were suddenly just two years apart. Second... while perhaps for some people, such a scene may personally remind of them of something, for the general audience at large, I would ask to try and not immediately paint everything in a sexual light. First off, it's less strange in certain cultures to share beds. For Americans (and not saying the backlashers are necessarily Americans), sharing beds is definitely tends to be pretty intimate only. And yes, the dad did point out a bit of concern, but it could be taken quite innocently too. Get your heads out of gutter, folks.

However, I will say the whole childhood storytelling is certainly lacking and felt like a stereotypical romance drama background. I feel like what they maybe should have established, and what would have made more sense, is that perhaps Gene, given his introverted personality, simply connected better with a younger kid who simply listens to him. Maybe he just doesn't feel as comfortable with kids his age because of the general social interaction expectations, but he can feel more open with a younger-brother type figure who has no expectations of him. I'm not sure how the novel was, but this sort of set up would make more sense and perhaps come off as less 'creepy' to viewers. Additionally, the scene with the fighting dragons is just... facepalm. Gene is, what, a pre-teen or teen here? He's not going to be smashing dragons together with sound effects lol. And then to fight over it with a young kid? Make it more believable, please? And the 'cute' interactions between them were a bit unnecessary I think. And only provides fuel for people who want to see it as something not innocent.

They certainly did play up / drag out a lot of points for dramatic effect, but at least they seemed to move on past this hiccup.

Sib saying he has realized he liked Gene since the day he left... not sure if it's a translation subtlety that's missing, but yeah I have the same question as Gene - like wtf, you were a kid. How could you 'like' like? Assuming they actually mean 'like' like and not an innocent sort of like... kind of weird? Or even, I can understand a young kid having a sort of 'crush', but it's very innocent and full of admiration, nothing sexual. Did they mean that? But then, I hope they clarify at some point or indicate when that feeling transitioned from youthful admiration to romantic.

Anyway. I think there's no need to proclaim disappointment from the rooftops over this. Is it a masterpiece? Lol not even close. But it's fun so far. I don't think it's fair to expect them to *not* employ any stereotypical elements, but I'm glad to be moving past the tacky childhood friends thing.

Alright I know everyone is suffering from all this uncertainty... how about a fan-cut version of the drama while we wait? I'm sure similar stuff has been shared before, but likely the reason why Luo Yunxi got cast as Shizun was because of these sorts of fan-cut movies...

Fan-cut movie with LYX and CFY (33 min): https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV1jk4y117BD
(EDIT: Looks like there might be a (roughly) subbed on Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZvyqPswQoo)
Fan-cut movie with LYX and Wu Lei (44 min): https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV1c4411z7KD - This is the one I'm sure the production team saw before casting LYX lol

Obviously, it's Chinese raw :/ So if you're unfamiliar with the story and don't speak Chinese... might be a bit confusing.

Hmm I'd say give it a chance before writing it off as queerbaiting. A lot of bromance shows certainly do queerbaiting - and it shows. The three I mentioned though I would not consider queerbaiting. Sure, they don't explicitly declare them to be in a romantic relationship, but the underlying emotions are all there through the entire development. It's worked into each action and line. If the same level of relationship was portrayed for a straight couple, audiences wouldn't hesitate to confirm they're in a relationship even if it wasn't stated. (And who says they have to kiss on-screen to signify they have romantic feelings for each other anyway?)

To me, queerbaiting is throwing in one-off lines or random actions that seem 'gay' but is incongruous with what the characters are actually like, or who they end up liking (e.g. the female lead).

However, none of these three shows have female leads that the main BL couple end up with. They leave it open-ended, which is as much as the censorship will allow. But really, most people can tell there's something more there. At least, all their actions and emotions are completely in line with their character and none of it is played up ridiculously to bait people in.

I'll give examples of queerbaiting - My Roommate is a Detective they definitely queerbaited, inserting cringey scenes between the two male leads despite the male lead ending up together with a female. And The Lost Tomb, they also do play it up quite a bit, although the subsequent dramas have gotten better about working in the bromance more believably rather than having gimmicky moments. (This one is also weird because the author himself slowly morphed the storyline to include more of the bromance... the redeeming factor is that the storyline is mostly plot anyway, with no romantic setup intended, so the moments they work in at least don't stand out too garishly. I love the series, but will definitely acknowledge they queerbait, albeit working it in better over time)

Honestly, to me, I think it's fine if writers include elements of BL to attract audience (at the end of the day, they want to tell a compelling story that people want to read / watch). What feels like 'queerbaiting' to me or any sort of 'baiting' to me, is when they write it inauthentically. Like, they already know that they want to put a guy with another girl, or when the lack of explicit relationship is not really in line with a character's personality or the setting. For example, in historical settings, I can totally believe two males don't explicitly refer to each other as anything. And given wuxia (chinese fantasy) dramas' lengthy plots, I can totally believe that they hadn't formalized a relationship quite yet by the end of the drama. And in fact in a lot of those novels, they don't formalize it until the very end anyway.

I do think the scene could be improved upon, but to your points:

1. Perhaps Nubsib did, but we're not too privy to his perspective. This whole drama seems to play out from Gene's POV.
2. I actually find it very likely he didn't remember... first, they were children and so they looked very different. OK Gene was older, but Sib's change was likely pretty huge. You can probably see the resemblance if you look for it, but otherwise you might not see it at all. And also, it *was* established that Gene has poor memory. It took him quite a while to remember Tum who was his Uni friend... and that was just a few years ago.
3. This, yeah ok I think they certainly tried to work in something for drama's sake. But let's be real, typical dramas commit far worse offenses of intentional lack of communication. In the character's defense though... I think he could tell Gene wasn't in a mood to listen. In which case anything he says would be taken badly. He wanted to get Gene into a place of listening first before explaining. Have you ever tried explaining something to someone who doesn't want to listen? Yeah it doesn't go over well at all. Rather than launching straight into an explanation (which the other party will just interpret as excuses if they're in the wrong mood), it's better to assure them there's a reason for the way you think. And ok, as cliche as 'It's not what you think' is, there is a reason why it gets used so much. First priority (whether one is guilty or not) is to get the other party to calm down.

Hmm I appreciate the sentiment, but I'm not sure on the efficacy. I think watching the ones that *do* push the boundaries on 'bromance' and get people to be more accepting of such emotions between two males (people aren't *that* blind. Even non-shippers can pick up on undertones) is how we might get the censorship to lay off. (Because getting sexual scenes in there is never going to be a thing for China. Even straight dramas won't really pass censorship on this.)

And while I don't support the intent behind censorship, I rather like the unintended effect sometimes. Dramas have to rely more on emotions rather than skinship to portray a relationship.

We also shouldn't assume that all of China is one voice. Do platforms want to make money? Sure. Does the government want to censor homosexual relationships? Yes. Do all the artists and drama makers fall in agreement over this? Definitely not.

Some of the drama makers are just jumping on the bromance train and can do things like switch out the Male Lead for a Female Lead, or throw in gimmicky 'bromantic' moments without real substance, but there are lots of drama makers out there who want to do right by the original script. They fight so hard to get things past censorship while keeping things authentic to the novel, and it *does* show. And so far, *those* are the ones that have the biggest hype. Chinese BL audiences aren't that dumb. They can sense when a production team has put heart and soul into something vs. when something was adapted just for money. Guardian, The Untamed, and Word of Honor have all pushed boundaries on BL relationships in dramas. They also risk a lot to do this fine dance. If they get censored entirely, they can lose everything.

And honestly, to me, getting people to become more accepting of homosexual relationships through the lens of intense emotions rather than raunchy skinship feels healthier. Like this whole series here is portraying, just promoting BL does not equate to a healthy acceptance of gay relationships. The false expectations that BL sets up is also extremely toxic. And the thing that's nice about a lot of the Chinese BL adaptations is that the plot is not purely romance, and so they don't have to invent drama for the sake of drama. You still get a lot of heart-warming / breaking moments, but the development of characters is believable because there are tons of external factors at play too. Fans get super hyped over each emotional moment or the little gestures and don't obsess as much over skinship (although don't get me wrong, of course people still do).

Also, in this day and age, labeling a show as 'gay relationship' buckets it into a certain genre. And the average person will never get exposed to these themes. With Chinese BL adaptations not exactly being classified as 'BL drama', a lot more people are willing to give it a chance. And when they do, they find they're not that bothered by the idea of two male leads having strong emotions for each other. I watched The Untamed with someone who didn't know it was BL adapted and wasn't into BL, and they eventually figured it out themselves that the two leads had romantic feelings for each other. They really enjoyed the show though and thought it was intriguing and started analyzing the relationship between the two leads like they would a normal pairing.

Obviously, your stance is your own at the end of the day. If you don't want to watch a censored drama on principle, that's certainly your right, and I can understand the sentiment. I just think that this will not get China to drop censorship of homosexual relationships faster than rewarding the dramas that do push boundaries little by little. And actually, the progress has been quite impressive so far. WoH is... I've no idea how they passed censorship actually. Maybe the regulations really are loosening up given the popularity.

I think their 'drama' was very well executed. It's actually rather painfully believable. This explains perfectly well why Nubsib seems to like him from the start (which initially to me smelled like another tropey 'Male Lead likes the MC from the moment they meet'). And why for Nubsib, there wasn't really a development of feelings (it was all already there!).

I don't think his actions were manipulative or bad, per-se, but I can also totally understand how Gene feels exposed and violated by this. I think what this show gets at is that each person is not so one-dimensional, and that one action is also not so one-dimensional. I can only say that his action to hide this from Gene was definitely 'not great'.

Gene's reaction falls perfectly in line with his personality. In real life, people get hurt and angry over the smallest gestures. Something like this to someone like Gene is quite shattering. He values his privacy and who he lets in. To learn that someone he was starting to trust knew more about him that they let on leaves him quite vulnerable. I think it may even be a little less of Sib's *action* of lying to him, and more that he just feels so horribly exposed all of a sudden.

Audiences have gotten too used to the romance formula... give them time to adapt to something more realistic. I think people can learn to appreciate a slow-burn, realistic romance (punctuated with fun moments of drama ofc).

They do still employ a lot of drama tropes (some scenes really drag in my opinion, and the dialogue is certainly still a pinch more dramatic at times), but it's a far step forward from a lot of things!

It's quite a nice change! Honestly, the fanservice / promo stuff and real-life shipping has always made me very uncomfortable. To use that to make up for bland and / or unrealistic storylines... a big reason why I've dropped BL shows for many years now (opting for bromance dramas instead where the relationship between two guys isn't necessarily the focus).

It's a bit of chicken and egg scenario. I think now that the first step out has been put forth, audiences will learn to appreciate this sort of stuff more and mature as a result. Eventually, we can grow out of this toxicity and realize that, sure, while real life couples aligning with fiction couples is super duper cute (I die over Kit Harrington and Rose Leslie from Game of Thrones), it's not at all appealing if it's forced. And hey, some actors want to expose of their personal life, totally fine. But forcing that really sucks.

People don't realize that many actors, especially good ones, tend to be introverted. They're that good at acting because they tap into and understand their own emotions very well. And yes, a lot of them want to be idols and get famous, but also a lot of them just also love the art of performing. There is something exhilarating about slipping into a character and experiencing emotions from their perspective (In another life, I would have continued theater lol. Now I'm just a boring professional). And I think it kind of sucks that they can't practice their art peacefully without the baggage of fandom applied.

Lol. I haven't properly participated in comment threads in many years because I feel like it's a pointless venture when everyone only screams about 'sexy scenes!' or how a rapey scene was 'so cute'! But now it actually feels like proper discussions can be had!

A lot of people seem to be kind of baffled over Gene's reaction to Nubsib not being clean with him from the start... IMO I feel like yes, it's certainly more of a reaction than an average person would have, but pretty in line with his character. It might seem like a little thing to an outsider, but I think people forget just how much meaning even the smallest actions can have to the person involved, and that everyone perceives things very differently.

Like even something as seemingly small as 'my friend didn't wish me happy birthday'. Some people will be really hurt by this, while others are like 'oh yeah it's just a birthday those come around too often nowadays'.

I think given Gene's introverted personality and how hard it is for him to let people in, his reaction to finding this out isn't overly so. It's not the situation of 'Oh we actually knew each other from childhood' that bothers him. It's certainly the fact that Nubsib knew more than he let on, and Gene, being a person that values his privacy and such very much, suddenly feels very exposed and violated. I think people who are more introverted can relate. It doesn't have to make logical / rational sense. Even Gene himself can probably determine this is not super rational, but at the end of the day it's hard to not feel what you feel.

I'm not sure how many people have experienced the feeling of being read openly or suddenly feeling like someone else sees through you... but it's not the best feeling. Even if the rational part of your mind is thinking it's not a big deal, it's not easy to push aside the sense of vulnerability and being exposed.

And also... that he doesn't quite recognize him from childhood is not weird at all... maybe most of the audience is too young haha. Once you get older, and if you don't have the best of memories, you'll definitely encounter scenarios where you don't remember a person or event... not at all strange lol.

Honestly, the fact that most dramas *have* the characters remembering detailed childhood events or suddenly remembering everything about a childhood friend once something ‘jogs’ their memory is what's abnormal. Like wtf... I sure as hell don't remember lots of events from childhood. If it weren't for videos, I wouldn't remember most of them prior to middle school.

Good job Lovely Writer on being as realistic as possible while still maintaining the 'alluring' aspects of drama.

I will if they continue to have good storylines like this one! I've known about Thai BLs for a while but, like I mentioned, have not been interested in watching them because it hadn't gone outside the scope of school settings yet. But it seems like they're starting to, so that's nice.

Ironically, although I do not at all support China's censorship of BL-adaptations, it*has* forced a lot more creative use of emotions to express BL relationships rather than relying on gimmicky skinship.

I hope given that Thailand is way more open about BL content, they'll also take this as a cue that having intense emotional journeys sell just as crazily if not more so than simple skinship.

Honestly, I'd just ignore them. You're just validating them when you respond to them. When they're coming in hot with a tone like that, they're just looking to piss people off. And when you respond, they know it worked.

You're not going to change their minds. Some people leave bad reviews, which can be totally fair. Some people are simply looking to rant, and those people won't listen to anything you say, really. You'll just waste your words and make them hate the show or something even more.

People who like kinks aside (which I can understand, sometimes you just have a kink for xyz scenes), those who have the *expectation* that all gay relationships should play out with those elements or a certain way are probably less mature in general. Of course they're going to hate on something too.

Hopefully with more healthy portrayals of relationships and how one should approach life, the influence on younger audiences will become better and not yield such toxic individuals who think their opinion outweighs everyone else's, and that the production team / actors owe them or something.

TBH this is the first Thai BL drama I watched... I know there are a lot of school-setting ones, but over years of watching animes and asian dramas with school-setting ones have just put me off entirely because of the tendency to romanticize unrealistic / unhealthy expectations. (Not saying this is necessarily the case for all the Thai school-setting ones, just that I've also totally lost interest in this genre as a result).

So actually, this is the first Thai BL I watched and I was pretty impressed! There's some melodrama, sure, but kept within believable realms. And I liked the focus on actual character growth and morality exploration rather than letting it simply be this eye-rolling cat-and-mouse 'No means yes' relationship.

I hope this is a pivot point in the BL industry, and we start getting more good storylines / settings / interesting characters that don't need to have romance-drama for the sake of drama. Tapping into character + relationship development is much more memorable than gimmicky skinship. I've always disliked the wash of such dramas in the straight drama world... it's not something the BL world needs to adopt!

I suspect they're waiting for a better viewership window. Right now, the same target audience is going crazy over Word of Honor, and then Immortality will be airing. I doubt Tencent is going to steal viewership hype from itself by airing this anytime sooner than when Immortality wraps up.

By series, do you mean Vol 1-8 the main storyline, then Tibetan Sea Sand, then Tomb of the Sea, and lastly Lost Tomb Reboot? Yeah there are gaps between all of them, with Tibetan Sea Sand and Tomb of the Sea unfinished in writing, though the drama seems to have taken some liberties in wrapping up some plotlines.

Such a rarity for this series hahahahaha

Not sure what OP is referring to, but currently there are two 'sections' of the main storyline that have yet to be drama released. This one, which takes place after TLT2, and the last section, which takes place after Ultimate Note. After that, there is Tibetan Sea Flower which is 5 ish? years after main storyline and technically the remainder of Tomb of the Sea but it feels like the drama adaptation kind of sort of wrapped it up? Unclear... book is unfinished though.

Gonna have to disappoint you there... for every mystery half-answered / pit half-filled, another plot hole is dug... such is the demise of the DMBJ-verse... even now, the author has all but given up, so I think a lot of the plotholes are around to stay. Still, it's very enjoyable and I'm still looking forward to (hopefully good) remaining drama adaptations!

Oh boo. Alright, thanks! One day there might be a drama that doesn't follow that plotline haha.

This looks super cute! Just one spoiler question... does this become a 'adoptive brother ends up liking adoptive sister' kind of thing? I really hope that for once, there can be a drama that doesn't assume that guys and girls can't simply be friends and has to romanticize the relationship... I would love for it to just focus on their relationship as friends / siblings...