You have this opinion because you are used to Korean dramas. In reality, this is exactly what will happen in such…
I'm from Portugal, I'm way way more used to Western/Latino dramas than Korean ones, because that's what I grew up watching and still do. I saw season 1 in 2017 and again last month after seeing the Korean version.
So no, my opinion isn't because I'm used to Korean dramas.
Also, I 100% disagree that a heist job foments the desire for sex. You're kinda right about the Korean society and media but not on this case. To me it makes no sense most of the sex scenes in the original. They're just there because sex sells, not because the story needed it or made sense.
Having seen both the original (only season 1) and this remake/reimagination I really find it hard to believe some people really think the original is better.
Half of the 1st season is just everyone trying to have sex with everyone. It's like they're are all nymphomanics or something. Nairobi, Tokyo, Denver, Rio, Oslo, Berlin, Professor, both inspectors, multiple hostages, all of them either had a sex scene or tried to fuck someone. Even Anne Kim from the original had like 2 sex scenes that served no real purpose. There's so much bs drama just because of this and I'm so glad this remake eliminated or changed some of those scenes. It's like half of the characters in the original are teenagers who just think about sex.
The original is still good, it's still fun to watch despite that and how slow some episodes are, but this remake is a big step up in my option. Of the main cast, I only prefer Rio, Oslo/Helsinki and Nairobi from the original, everyone else I find better written here.
Your judgment is so clouded by your dislike of Lee Soo that you don't even realize what you're really saying in…
"This being said I will address your different points when they are points and not extrapolations." - extrapolations is you're mostly doing, but ok.
"- He is controlling because he stopped her from seeing the truth. So that means he made her have an idea of the events which is not complete and true. That is being controlling of her life. Understand?" - that's complete bullshit. She already knew those girls were bitches, they even fought in the bathroom. He didn't stop or controlled shit, other than stopping her from getting food/box in her head. Nothing more.
"Why he goes to the bar after she left for her date to argue with her friend and she has to come pick her up while she was on a date huh? Is that coincidence? Why he has to wait for her and take a taxi with her because he "must protect in case something happen" he cannot afford to be responsible! After he rejected her... lol. Why he goes to look for her at her workplace using some stupid pictures which can totally wait next day or next time or be sent by email?" -Why would a guy go to a bar? Tell me? Yeah, he's the mastermind, he predicted her friend was there, that she would get waisted, after that that she would beat him up and after that the other friend would call her (BTW, this was sarcasm). C'mon, listen to yourself, you're 100% just seeing what you want to see, not what happened. About the waiting for her, whether you believe it or not the why is clear, he cares about her. About the pictures, well that's easy too, that's work and they had work to do. In the message he asked her where were they going to photograph that day, so they clearly had plans.
"- He is overly aggressive: Yes he is. When you want to go out and people stop you by physical means that are totally UNECESSARY. It is being overly aggressive. Why he does not just say : "Wait... I need to talk to you". And if she doesn't wait.. he waits for the next time to talk to her. That is what respectful people do. Because they are not aggressive morons who use physical force to stop others. Understand?" - If that's what you call being aggressive and using physical force to stop others then I'm happy for you. Hope you never learn what being aggressive or using force to physically stop someone really is.
"- OK you acknowledged he is self centered and being alone is his excuse. Good. Now there are plenty of people who were alone and they are not self centered." - Yes, I can acknowledge stuff because I'm seeing stuff without judgmental eyes or tainted by preconceived notions, assumptions or hate. It's not an excuse, it's the truth. In his life he only had 1 person he cared about and calls friends, her. It was that way in school and in the present too, how is it surprising that a guy who in 28 years of life had only 1 meaningful relationship with someone, is self centered?
"- He is two faced: Yes he is two faced because one face he behaves like the guy who is emotionless and cannot be understood and one face he is seductive and joking and a smart ass lying and inventing stories to lead people in believing something untrue like in the restaurant. This is being a two faced weasel." Excuse me? Nothing he said in the restaurant was false. His tone was asshole-ish but everything was true, if anything it was Woo Yeon lying about it. Also, just because he seems emotionless it doesn't mean he is.
"- He has no empathy at all. When she told him the hardships she went through crying like an idiot he said "oh really??? Am I responsible for this? Why you liked me? Like.. I never knew what you went through but you are an idiot for liking me.. He is a pos with no empathy." - If he had no empathy he wouldn't call himself a jerk in the same scene, but sure let's ignore what doesn't fit your narrative. Also, judging him like that without even trying to know why he is that way or trying to understand him, that's also lacking empathy.
"She had a painful time for years because of him. " - Yeah, he was truthful and straightforward and rejected her with respect. How is he responsible for her not getting over him after 10 years without even seeing him? c'mon. He did nothing wrong at all in the past.
"Maybe you find this is utterly romantic and you love men like that but I am just saying a man talking like that and behaving like that with a woman and make her miserable for a decade... stay away. Life is not like in dramas." - never said it is romantic, actually I even said that I wouldn't mind seeing her with the CEO. This again, wtf did he do to make her miserable for 10 years? What? He rejected her by saying he only sees her as a friend, is that what he did?
Just like life is not like dramas, not everything is either white or black and not everything is as it seems (coincidentally that was actually the name/theme of the last episode).
Your judgment is so clouded by your dislike of Lee Soo that you don't even realize what you're really saying in…
You're evaluating the sunglasses scene as if they are people who just met. Sure, someone you barely know or don't know at all doing that might (emphasis on might) be creepy and calculative, but that's not who they are. They know each other since high school, they were actual friends, there's absolutely no ill intent behind it.
The same gesture can have different meanings or interpretations depending on who does it and to who. I can make a joke about my friend having a hot mom in his face without him being mad about it but someone he doesn't know saying the same he's not going to be ok with it.
And no, I highly doubt that you would unfriend someone you care about just because they used a harmless tactic to try to spend more time with you.
But hey, I might be wrong, after all what I was trying to say is that everyone is different and feel things differently even in the same situations and most cases nothing is clearly right or clearly wrong.
Lee Soo is the most unlikable and despicable male character I have seen in kdrama since a long time.- He is controlling…
Your judgment is so clouded by your dislike of Lee Soo that you don't even realize what you're really saying in my opinion.
The "he is controlling" part is actually really wtf? Are you serious right now?
"He looks for every opportunity to be around her beside their work." - soo... like the CEO?
"He is overly aggressive : When he stops her by blocking the door." - that was aggressive? c'mon.
"He is verbally abusing to put pressure on her" - if that's what you call putting pressure on her then that is also the CEO specialty. How desperate was he in the restaurant? She says no like 4 times but he still was pressuring her until the "test me" stuff.
"He has no respect : When she is writing on her notebook he ripped it from her hand like he is a bully in middle school." - A bully? I'm sorry but that was just normal friendship stuff.
Yeah he is self-centered, he always said it himself. He also always wanted Woo Heon to be more self-centered too. It's also perfectly normal for him to be self-centered when he was always alone and had to grow up all by himself since he was a kid.
"He is two faced : When he wants he plays seducer to appease her or confuse her." - disagree. He was always straightforward and real with her. Sometimes he acts without thinking and tries to rationalize it after but that's because he either doesn't know he likes her or is afraid to take the next step.
"He has no empathy : He calls himself her friend for 10 years or more but never cared to know how she really felt all his time." - friendship isn't the same for everyone. For a guy like him who's way to reserved and was always alone and even in school he considered her his only friend, years don't matter. You might not think he's her friend, but in his mind she absolutely is. Also, having no empathy and being oblivious/ignorant are different things. The thought that she cried because of him never crossed his mind, but when he heard it it clearly affected him.
About the restaurant scene with all 3, I agree. He was a complete asshole and even tho she was the one who started by lying about their relationship, the way he said those things (that were actually all true) was definitely an asshole thing to do.
Sure, Lee Soo isn't exactly perfect and can be a jerk sometimes but he's definitely not a bad person and clearly cares for her, just in his own way. Actually, she's probably the person he cares the most about, he just doesn't know how to show it or say it and how much he cares isn't reflected by everyone else's standards.
I don't even mind the CEO, since I actually think he's a good person too and wouldn't mind if Woo Yeon actually ended up with him, but let's not act like one is the perfect men and the other utter trash or a "manipulative psychopath".
Sorry about the long post, it wasn't really personal and hope you don't take it as an attack (if you do, I'm sorry, wasn't my intention) , I was just a little bit frustrated about Lee Soo's character being completely misunderstood. I'm sorry but there's no way in hell he's even close to being a "manipulative psychopath".
I was kind of curious on a lot of things and I don't think it was mentioned in the story... How did Mun-yeong's…
-How did Mun-yeong's father got to the psychiatric hospital? He was diagnosed with dementia and aneurisms in his brain that caused hallucinations. -How did Mun-yeong's mother survive the accident? The real accident wasn't the one we saw. He was hallucionating some of the stuff. How exactly it was we don't know. -Where is the patient whom was used by Mun-yeong's mother? Was she killed? It's open for interpretation. -Did Sang-in's secretary/assistant gave him the script of Mun-yeong's last book? She said she would, so yes, probably? -Who will Sang tae work with? Another writter.
Do you understand what you’re asking?Flash backs are needed, specially in the 1st episode and with complex stories…
Your English is perfectly fine ;).
You’re wrong. Things are never just black or white. Saying “flash backs are never needed” or “it’s only used by a lazy writer” is not only wrong but also makes me question if you know anything about how to build a narrative. (I’m also straightforward!).
A flash back with a purpose isn’t a bad flash black or a flaw. The information they gave about the ML was essential. Just because it went into the past that doesn’t mean the story went back, in fact it kept going forward.
You’ve oscar movie winners that used flash back. You’ve awarded and best seller books with flash backs too. The Titanic was told in a flash back, Forest Gump too, Slumdog Millionaire, The Notebook, The Usual Suspects, The Social Network, Saving Private Ryan, Fight Club, and many others.
Flash backs are a way to tell a story, they aren’t inherently bad or good, it all depends on how they’re done.
What you proposed is just shuffling scenes. In the end it would still be a flash back because the main story is in the present. Starting in the past and 20 minutes later doing a time skip to the present is exactly the same, it would still be a flash back.
You’ve every right to say you don’t like flash backs, but saying only lazy writers use it or that they are never needed is factually wrong.
It’s not technically about Flash Backs but this video talks about dialogue/narratives and how it should be done, I think you’ll like it: www.youtube.com/watch?v=hEgsIV98ZmU
Hated the first ep. Flash back is like amnesia: it's one of the 10 plagues of egypt... kdrama. (>_ NAM GOONG MIN…
Do you understand what you’re asking?
Flash backs are needed, specially in the 1st episode and with complex stories like this one where the plot and the past of the ML are a big focus. You need context, you need information to understand what’s happening and why the ML is doing what he’s doing.
Not only was there no other way for us the viewer to get that information without the flash backs but it also was a way to connect the ML with the audience emotionally.
These flash backs had purpose and where unavoidable to bring you important information about the plot.
So no, my opinion isn't because I'm used to Korean dramas.
Also, I 100% disagree that a heist job foments the desire for sex. You're kinda right about the Korean society and media but not on this case. To me it makes no sense most of the sex scenes in the original. They're just there because sex sells, not because the story needed it or made sense.
Half of the 1st season is just everyone trying to have sex with everyone. It's like they're are all nymphomanics or something. Nairobi, Tokyo, Denver, Rio, Oslo, Berlin, Professor, both inspectors, multiple hostages, all of them either had a sex scene or tried to fuck someone. Even Anne Kim from the original had like 2 sex scenes that served no real purpose. There's so much bs drama just because of this and I'm so glad this remake eliminated or changed some of those scenes. It's like half of the characters in the original are teenagers who just think about sex.
The original is still good, it's still fun to watch despite that and how slow some episodes are, but this remake is a big step up in my option. Of the main cast, I only prefer Rio, Oslo/Helsinki and Nairobi from the original, everyone else I find better written here.
"- He is controlling because he stopped her from seeing the truth. So that means he made her have an idea of the events which is not complete and true. That is being controlling of her life. Understand?" - that's complete bullshit. She already knew those girls were bitches, they even fought in the bathroom. He didn't stop or controlled shit, other than stopping her from getting food/box in her head. Nothing more.
"Why he goes to the bar after she left for her date to argue with her friend and she has to come pick her up while she was on a date huh? Is that coincidence? Why he has to wait for her and take a taxi with her because he "must protect in case something happen" he cannot afford to be responsible! After he rejected her... lol. Why he goes to look for her at her workplace using some stupid pictures which can totally wait next day or next time or be sent by email?" -Why would a guy go to a bar? Tell me? Yeah, he's the mastermind, he predicted her friend was there, that she would get waisted, after that that she would beat him up and after that the other friend would call her (BTW, this was sarcasm). C'mon, listen to yourself, you're 100% just seeing what you want to see, not what happened. About the waiting for her, whether you believe it or not the why is clear, he cares about her. About the pictures, well that's easy too, that's work and they had work to do. In the message he asked her where were they going to photograph that day, so they clearly had plans.
"- He is overly aggressive: Yes he is. When you want to go out and people stop you by physical means that are totally UNECESSARY. It is being overly aggressive. Why he does not just say : "Wait... I need to talk to you". And if she doesn't wait.. he waits for the next time to talk to her. That is what respectful people do. Because they are not aggressive morons who use physical force to stop others. Understand?" - If that's what you call being aggressive and using physical force to stop others then I'm happy for you. Hope you never learn what being aggressive or using force to physically stop someone really is.
"- OK you acknowledged he is self centered and being alone is his excuse. Good. Now there are plenty of people who were alone and they are not self centered." - Yes, I can acknowledge stuff because I'm seeing stuff without judgmental eyes or tainted by preconceived notions, assumptions or hate. It's not an excuse, it's the truth. In his life he only had 1 person he cared about and calls friends, her. It was that way in school and in the present too, how is it surprising that a guy who in 28 years of life had only 1 meaningful relationship with someone, is self centered?
"- He is two faced: Yes he is two faced because one face he behaves like the guy who is emotionless and cannot be understood and one face he is seductive and joking and a smart ass lying and inventing stories to lead people in believing something untrue like in the restaurant. This is being a two faced weasel." Excuse me? Nothing he said in the restaurant was false. His tone was asshole-ish but everything was true, if anything it was Woo Yeon lying about it. Also, just because he seems emotionless it doesn't mean he is.
"- He has no empathy at all. When she told him the hardships she went through crying like an idiot he said "oh really??? Am I responsible for this? Why you liked me? Like.. I never knew what you went through but you are an idiot for liking me.. He is a pos with no empathy." - If he had no empathy he wouldn't call himself a jerk in the same scene, but sure let's ignore what doesn't fit your narrative. Also, judging him like that without even trying to know why he is that way or trying to understand him, that's also lacking empathy.
"She had a painful time for years because of him. " - Yeah, he was truthful and straightforward and rejected her with respect. How is he responsible for her not getting over him after 10 years without even seeing him? c'mon. He did nothing wrong at all in the past.
"Maybe you find this is utterly romantic and you love men like that but I am just saying a man talking like that and behaving like that with a woman and make her miserable for a decade... stay away. Life is not like in dramas." - never said it is romantic, actually I even said that I wouldn't mind seeing her with the CEO. This again, wtf did he do to make her miserable for 10 years? What? He rejected her by saying he only sees her as a friend, is that what he did?
Just like life is not like dramas, not everything is either white or black and not everything is as it seems (coincidentally that was actually the name/theme of the last episode).
The same gesture can have different meanings or interpretations depending on who does it and to who. I can make a joke about my friend having a hot mom in his face without him being mad about it but someone he doesn't know saying the same he's not going to be ok with it.
And no, I highly doubt that you would unfriend someone you care about just because they used a harmless tactic to try to spend more time with you.
But hey, I might be wrong, after all what I was trying to say is that everyone is different and feel things differently even in the same situations and most cases nothing is clearly right or clearly wrong.
The "he is controlling" part is actually really wtf? Are you serious right now?
"He looks for every opportunity to be around her beside their work." - soo... like the CEO?
"He is overly aggressive : When he stops her by blocking the door." - that was aggressive? c'mon.
"He is verbally abusing to put pressure on her" - if that's what you call putting pressure on her then that is also the CEO specialty. How desperate was he in the restaurant? She says no like 4 times but he still was pressuring her until the "test me" stuff.
"He has no respect : When she is writing on her notebook he ripped it from her hand like he is a bully in middle school." - A bully? I'm sorry but that was just normal friendship stuff.
Yeah he is self-centered, he always said it himself. He also always wanted Woo Heon to be more self-centered too. It's also perfectly normal for him to be self-centered when he was always alone and had to grow up all by himself since he was a kid.
"He is two faced : When he wants he plays seducer to appease her or confuse her." - disagree. He was always straightforward and real with her. Sometimes he acts without thinking and tries to rationalize it after but that's because he either doesn't know he likes her or is afraid to take the next step.
"He has no empathy : He calls himself her friend for 10 years or more but never cared to know how she really felt all his time." - friendship isn't the same for everyone. For a guy like him who's way to reserved and was always alone and even in school he considered her his only friend, years don't matter. You might not think he's her friend, but in his mind she absolutely is. Also, having no empathy and being oblivious/ignorant are different things. The thought that she cried because of him never crossed his mind, but when he heard it it clearly affected him.
About the restaurant scene with all 3, I agree. He was a complete asshole and even tho she was the one who started by lying about their relationship, the way he said those things (that were actually all true) was definitely an asshole thing to do.
Sure, Lee Soo isn't exactly perfect and can be a jerk sometimes but he's definitely not a bad person and clearly cares for her, just in his own way. Actually, she's probably the person he cares the most about, he just doesn't know how to show it or say it and how much he cares isn't reflected by everyone else's standards.
I don't even mind the CEO, since I actually think he's a good person too and wouldn't mind if Woo Yeon actually ended up with him, but let's not act like one is the perfect men and the other utter trash or a "manipulative psychopath".
Sorry about the long post, it wasn't really personal and hope you don't take it as an attack (if you do, I'm sorry, wasn't my intention) , I was just a little bit frustrated about Lee Soo's character being completely misunderstood. I'm sorry but there's no way in hell he's even close to being a "manipulative psychopath".
He was diagnosed with dementia and aneurisms in his brain that caused hallucinations.
-How did Mun-yeong's mother survive the accident?
The real accident wasn't the one we saw. He was hallucionating some of the stuff. How exactly it was we don't know.
-Where is the patient whom was used by Mun-yeong's mother? Was she killed?
It's open for interpretation.
-Did Sang-in's secretary/assistant gave him the script of Mun-yeong's last book?
She said she would, so yes, probably?
-Who will Sang tae work with?
Another writter.
I just need to find my own Tsugumi now. :)
Also, it’s refreshing to see so many women so badass, intelligent and competent at their work with personality.
As a man I loved the 3 main female leads, they were all kinda amazing while being all different.
You’re wrong. Things are never just black or white. Saying “flash backs are never needed” or “it’s only used by a lazy writer” is not only wrong but also makes me question if you know anything about how to build a narrative. (I’m also straightforward!).
A flash back with a purpose isn’t a bad flash black or a flaw. The information they gave about the ML was essential. Just because it went into the past that doesn’t mean the story went back, in fact it kept going forward.
You’ve oscar movie winners that used flash back. You’ve awarded and best seller books with flash backs too. The Titanic was told in a flash back, Forest Gump too, Slumdog Millionaire, The Notebook, The Usual Suspects, The Social Network, Saving Private Ryan, Fight Club, and many others.
Flash backs are a way to tell a story, they aren’t inherently bad or good, it all depends on how they’re done.
What you proposed is just shuffling scenes. In the end it would still be a flash back because the main story is in the present. Starting in the past and 20 minutes later doing a time skip to the present is exactly the same, it would still be a flash back.
You’ve every right to say you don’t like flash backs, but saying only lazy writers use it or that they are never needed is factually wrong.
It’s not technically about Flash Backs but this video talks about dialogue/narratives and how it should be done, I think you’ll like it: www.youtube.com/watch?v=hEgsIV98ZmU
Flash backs are needed, specially in the 1st episode and with complex stories like this one where the plot and the past of the ML are a big focus. You need context, you need information to understand what’s happening and why the ML is doing what he’s doing.
Not only was there no other way for us the viewer to get that information without the flash backs but it also was a way to connect the ML with the audience emotionally.
These flash backs had purpose and where unavoidable to bring you important information about the plot.
2017- 0 body swap kdramas.
2018- 2 body swap kdramas, 1 mini drama.
They couldn't find different names? Ahah.
In my opinion they're both similar in terms of characters, seriousness and tragedy. I really like both dramas for the same reasons.