Marie

Yes, I did write a monster of a comment. I'm sorry about that as it is too much for anyone who may not want to dedicate hours to the subject.

Everything you've said in your response, I agree with and I have seen in documentation. You have explained in fewer words and more concisely what I think about the subject.

So, to answer your last question... We can do what we are doing right now I guess ; discussing about the issues and making them visible to the consumers who can then educate themselves. Even if issues are similar to the ones 600 years ago, I still believe that the medias are improving and that is why I care so much about representation. We just need to talk about its merits and its faults in an unbiased way.

If anyone wants to discuss the subject in more depths or anything about representation, you can message me privately.

Happy new year

I agree with most of your points. However, I believe misogyny/sexism in dramas are not only seen in the romance genre. It is visible in other aspects. Also, like I said in my previous comment, gender and sexuality discrimination does not only happen to women. Thus, I don't think BLs are less toxic as they perpetuate stereotypes to all genders.

It may seems like women are less stereotyped in Bls because women rarely play important roles in these shows. Consequently, there is less chances to see as much bad representation of women than most heterosexual dramas. The women are often reduced to reaction tools (shipping the characters in thai, japanese and taiwanese shows mostly) to move the plot along or to give opportunitinies for the main characters to spend time together. Most of the times, they do not serve any other purpose in those shows than what links them to the main guys. Shipping is mostly done by women and it is portrayed as them being shallow. The women in bls are not understanding of LGBT issues because they are true allies and are truly open minded because they still overlook the men's well-being. In some cases, they also stalk and take pictures of the main characters without their consent. Again, misogyny/sexism in dramas are not only seen in romance. It is visible in other aspects. Also, like I said in my previous comment, gender and sexuality discrimination does not only happen to women. Thus, I don't think BLs are less toxic as they perpetuate stereotypes to all genders.

It may seems like women are less stereotyped in Bls because women rarely play important roles in these shows. Consequently, there is less chances to see as much bad representation of women than most heterosexual dramas. The women are often reduced to reaction tools (shipping the characters in thai, japanese and taiwanese shows mostly) to move the plot along or to give opportunitinies for the main characters to spend time together. Most of the times, they do not serve any other purpose in those shows than what links them to the main guys. Shipping is mostly done by women and it is portrayed as them being shallow. The women in bls are not understanding of LGBT issues because they are true allies and are truly open minded because they still overlook the men's well-being. In some cases, they also stalk and take pictures of the main characters without their consent. Again, they are seen as the ones breaking up couples (not only in gay media as second female lead are also often portrayed as villains). My point is that bls do not try to change how women are portrayed in medias and also use the same plot devices as straight dramas. So, I do not see how Bls are better for women. Even if they are not sexualy harassed or stucked in romantic gender roles, they are still victims of misogyny.

You said that it is great that women are not victims of abusive behaviors in bls, but there is still abusive behaviors in the bls couples. Jealousy, controlling and sexual abuse are still present between the couples. Like I said in my previous comment, consent is a big problem in bls. No matter the gender, it is disgusting and we should not glorify how the relationships are portrayed in bls. If women are not victims, the problem is different? Because women are not the (principal) victims, it means the bls are less toxic and problematic?

Also, a man being feminine is in no way a bad thing, but that is not the message I receive from most of the bls. For example, in thai bls, transgender people and feminine gays supporting characters are often used as the laughing relief. They are parodies, cartoonish characters, not meant for the public to see them as humans or to make them think of their reality. Their feminine side is what makes them funny and the fact that we associates feminity with them is sexist.

Furthermore, the fact that the concepts of bottom and tops are so prevalent is an evidence to the stereotyped perception that homosexual relationships are like heterosexual relationships (with a feminine submissive figure). Also, since the middle ages, being the one that is penetrated by the other is a sign that you are a lesser man and it saddens me that this stereotype is still perpetuated today in media that is representing the community. Again, BLs are not meant to change our perception of gender and sexual issues as they do not dare to try to change our beliefs. 3 will be free is an exception (that I recommend everyone to watch), but I don't remember much other exceptions right now. However, my opinion is that independant works made by people of the LGBT community will always be better than what is mainstream right now. Some bls directors from Thailand are themselves part of the LGBT community, but they always adapt toxic books written by women, so I do not see most thai mainstream bls as examples of works created by LGBT folks.

About direct or indirect actions, I do not agree with you. If you ask someone to do something bad for you, you still are the one to reep all the benefits from the bad action and you are the one who knows the moral implications of your actions. If you ask someone else or if you do something knowing the moral and ethic implications, I think it becomes impossible to value/rate actions and their consequences. In most justice systems, even if you did not make the actions, you can still be determined to be culpable.

For LGBT representation, every new improvement is important and seeing more acceptance is a great fact. However, as the medias are critical in the shift of the perception of LGBT issues, we can't deny that every bad representation is damaging. We have to continue fighting for representation, but if the results are as half-baked as right now, it is damaging.

But BLs are also stereotypical? There is also misogyny in BLs and gender roles assigned to the couples. There is, most of the times, a more submissive person in the couples who seems to play the "womanly" role. So, it gives the effect of seeing a heterosexual drama (but only with two male leads) when the LGBT aspects are so feared (my assumption), misunderstood and hidden. If you replace the more submissive person with a woman and the romance does still make sense, I feel like there is a problem (Being gay is not only coming out and being rejected, there is positive apects to being a part of the LGBT community and the dramas ignore all aspects, negative or positive, of this). Good representation is important when your community is always judged for their identity. Moreover, women are also often portrayed as the villains that will break relationships (again a heterocentric stereotype).

There is also the trope Gay for you and consent is not always there. Also, it is important to remember that the bls' target audience is straight women so the representation of lgbt issues are not an important aspect for those dramas and most dramas adaptation come from books written by women (not referring to their sexuality here as @ComeOn made a great point about assuming sexualities) for women that are filled with toxic depictions of romance and the LGBT experience. So Bls are tied to a fetishizing aspect we can't ignore. However, korean bl dramas seems to do a bit better for the aspects I criticized, but I often feel like they are not made to represent the LGBT community (Light on me is an exception. It was great!) but as products of entertainment only with no other values…

There are some exceptions but I don't think it devalues my point. As a watcher of both heterosexual and LGBT stories, I did not write this to criticize those who watch bls, but just to share my opinion that this genre is as toxic as the heterosexual romances. We just have to be critical watchers (not meaning you can't enjoy brainless entertainment, but you have to recognize what it is and not praise what it is not). Sorry if my comment is bloated as it is a subject I am passionate about and there is so much to say about it.

It can be so hard to ask for help and it is even more harder when others see it as easy.

Even if your sister is shy, did it help you growing up to see what she did and her reactions? For example, were you copying her often?

I understand the need to show to those near you what you like and always asking yourself if you are boring them too much. If you want to discuss in private messages about your passions, I would love to do so with you.

You are really fortunate to have a support group at your university. At the one I'll be going in September, the support for students with needs is known to be lacking and there no support group for people on the spectrum. Because I am also seen as a gifted student, there is not much they can do for me...

I understand your disconnect. Even if they have the same diagnosis, it is not easier to interact. In my case, I have met one old man on the spectrum with the help of my mother, who was already talking to him on Twitter, and she helped us have a smoother conversation. Even though I don't privately speak to him, he has been important in my life as he has given me confidence and has told my mother to be more patient with me. I also have a same aged cousin with autism, but we are both too shy to talk to each other even though we went to the same schools for seven years. I also have been lucky to have a twin sister (neurotypical) who has helped me make friends and who never hesitates to tell me when I do something I should not.

I also feel you about having difficulties meeting people with the same interests. I have succeeded in showing dramas and music to some friends, but they are not as fixated as I am and I am the kind of person who likes to discuss in details what I like and don't like. I don't know about the immaturity of people liking dramas online because I have never really interacted with them.

I really love this video too! It is one of my favorite and it is what made me really interested in meeting people with autism. It is also the video that finally gave me the courage to ask my family to seek for a diagnosis after years of doubts.

It is really interesting to me how you feel when you see a portrayal close to your situation. Maybe because I don't know a lot of autistic people and I was often misunderstood by those close to me, I am yearning to see representation and artworks made by autistic people. Also, I would like to meet people on the spectrum to just feel understood and to share experiences, but it can be hard to step out my zone of comfort.

Thanks for telling me! Like I said in my comment, I can be unforgiving when I see defaults in the representation even if it can be close to real life. I can't deny I am surely too often being hard on the representation of autism because of years of anger and deception in relation to the way autism is portrayed (not only in medias, but also with organizations and medical specialists that should be helping us but are not). However, I still think there were some elements that could have been depicted in better ways.
I also don't plan on continuing the drama because the representation was not the only reason I dropped it.

As an autistic person, the way the autism spectrum was portrayed in It's Okay to Not Be Okay was one of the many reasons I dropped it. The representation of autism in most medias is harmful. Most of the times, autism is used as a tool to make the public feel pity towards the main characters who are taking care of an autistic individual (we are rarely independent in fiction and no neurotypical creator seems to really hear our voices!). I felt from IOTNBO a clear lack of understanding of what it is to be autistic. As someone said in the comments, we can show some stereotypical traits of autism, but in Sang Tae's case, it felt unrealistic because it was used for comedic values and the actor was inconsistent in his portrayal... It did not show our difficulties in any respectful and meaningful way (the actor concentrating on portraying innocence and purity)... However, there is some elements I liked and I understand that Sang Tae was not the main character, but the lack of great representation (with autistic women also) makes me unforgiving most of the times.

The only snack I ate is Shrimp Chips and it's good. We don’t have that kind of snack's flavour in my country so I like it a lot.
Also, I tried bibimbap in a restaurant a year ago. Since then, I crave for it.

My favorite drama is I remember you. I really liked D.O's acting and the relation between Min and Hyeon.