Meep

Sad you think I'm not a kinkster, but looking at your profile you basically made this account to comment on my review? Kind of cowardly and means I will not be discussing this with you further.

Haha, I get you, but since i was mostly done with her character I really didnt like the way the writers assassinated his character? And I don't think his motives were as pure. Even if he wanted her to remember her mom, that's the stupidest way to go about it.

He said he felt terrible, because he could never remember who he was when he overloaded, well... maybe just... stay with your child? re-explain? Maybe she broke him and his logic, but the decision to *electrocute* his child rests solely on his shoulders. I feel like Gu Reum dropping the baby at least has more basis, because she's seen Zi O do it, she's seen the baby do it and she was also at the end of her rope, because she didn't want her baby to be tortured.

Idk, the writing of this show just really took a downturn with ep 9 and 10 and never recovered. A shame...

Yeah I was with you, if he wouldn't want to torture his literally days old daughter, because she might be amnesiac. First they character assassinated Gu Reum, then they did him dirty. But when he was this close to electrocuting his *own daughter* to the way he was tortured I thought Gu Reum was right in taking her away.

I could sort of agree to that if the whole drama hadn't been about loving someone for who they are and not what you project onto them. There was CJ's whole speech about never mistaking SB again, there was SB saying BI just ignored how she became a different person and loved her anyway and that was unwelcome. I mean I guess in this case it's at least mutual, but it just seems contrary to what the drama had been trying to portray.

I gotta say I don't know what to make of that comment. Does he only love the shell then? Yes his queen is stunning, but I'd like for Cheoljong not to be so shallow, haha.

Yeah, and that's not a good thing. It invalidates so much of the drama for me.

Well, count me as one of the many people who are *really* disappointed by the way this ended. And no, I don't think So Young was in control at any point. Bong Hwan not acting like he did at the beginning of the drama is ... kind of the point of the drama? He changed and became a more compassionate person. Did some feelings of So Young's merge with his? Yes, but in the end the dominant personality was Bong Hwan. The fact that apparently the King is just cool with his wife changing personality now is gross to me. That ruins all of the romance they had before. Because even if they were similar people, the person the king fell in love with in the drama is *not* So Young. I feel incredibly cheated and pissed off.

I am a big fan of the webtoon, but I had an open mind watching this, especially since I was actually not a big fan of the way the webtoon ended. Sad to say though that while the ending was changed, it was changed for the worse, imo. What was the point of adding the military to this plot. One of the big themes of the webtoon was that they weren't going to be saved by the military and could only work together! And while there is still parts of that here, the military taking over (and every character being aware of it) kind of robs that theme of its impact. Also what was that bullshit sequel bait ending.

Lee Si Young's character was a (very very hot) drama addition, but I wish they hadn't revealed she was Ex Special Forces. She could have just been a badass firefighter! I was down with that, although her character kinda wreaks havoc with the plot. Sadly I don't think this is a successful adaption.

I honestly don't get people's hate for this series. It seems like we watched completely different shows, because people keep complaining that Asule is weak/incapacitated for the majority of the show and I just don't see it? This show actually takes the time to explore the world and give depths to many different factions with their own goals, desires and faults and nearly every main character gets development and grows or finishes the show at a very different point than they started.

Hey, I am very happy to have discussions about this drama. Yes I watched to (the for me bitter) end. I am glad you could find enjoyment in this drama, times are hard enough as it is and everyone should have something they enjoy.
I don't think I will ever enjoy this drama for a myriad of reasons and maybe some viewers will be inspired to watch the drama thanks to our discussion and maybe someone will not watch it, because they might have similar reservations like I did. 69 Episodes is a [nice] heavy investment of time after all, it helps to have a clearer understanding of what you get into.

What was the end result/lesson in your opinion? Because we seem to be drawing entirely different conclusions. And it is not just one scene that I am angry at, it is how her character changes from a woman who is "virtuous and stiff-necked towards the emperor", to use your words, to a woman who will excuse pretty much everything for him, because he finally loves her. And she is (imo) not the only example of the writer failing the female characters in this drama.

Why do you think I would never be able to watch a movie about the history of slavery in America? I watch, and like, plenty of media with "problematic" or even disturbing content. But it is all a matter of viewpoint and how a story is told that influences my opinion. I do not need a character to be sympathetic to enjoy a story, nor do I need to think all their actions are right. But if a story includes a character doing something that I would think makes them highly unsympathetic and the way the story is told emphasizes that no, this character is still sympathetic even with/or especially because of how they handled that situation, then I am going to lose my enjoyment and I'm going to speak up about why I don't think people should spend time on that piece of media, in my opinion.

It doesn't mean I don't think other people could enjoy this, but if their tastes are similar to mine they probably won't.

I'm angry at how women were characterised in the latter half of the drama, the empress turned into a Stepford Wife, basically beaten down by her husbands continuous little failures against her, not to mention the fact that he apparently assaulted her for her first time with him. How am I to empathise with a character who does that? Or even think he's a good ruler? I don't care if it is possible it might have happened. As a viewer in the 21st century this clearly devaluates anything Renzong might do that's good in statescraft.

Why does the show insist on showing me that after the assault the Empress is happy? And I do think it's assault, because he overpowers her, she is clearly just enduring his advances and to see her then smile at his sleeping face to me is a betrayal of the characterisation we have seen of her before.

And the drama makes light of Renzong's failures, even when he (chronologically years) later talks about his military exploits that were complete and utter misses, the drama has the *Empress* of all people, whose (mild but also accurate) criticism he had denigrated and ignored, absolve him that he tried his best etc. That kind of characterisation has nothing to do with how women were treated back then but with a failure on the part of the writer.

I guess we will not agree about this drama though, but I also think discussions like these are important so people can see different viewpoints.

And that doesn't mean that as a modern audience we want to watch that or should be forced to watch how pretty much *every* woman in Renzong's life excuses him and his actions. Furthermore, historical accuracy is such a fuzzy concept because sources are (usually) limited and heavily skewed by male perspective and we're still learning new things today.
If you wish to learn about Chinese history you should either read a book or maybe watch a documentary about it, this is a highly editorialised and highly fictionalised account of Renzong's life.
And there are numerous historical dramas out there and while i might find issue with some of them, this is the only one that's made me this angry in recent memory with its treatment of female characters and their characterisation. There is a way to show how women were treated back then, and sometimes it can even let the audience draw parallels to the current times, but the way the show did it is infuriating and imo not worth spending 50 hours of your life with.

Although this drama deviated heavily from the novel to focus more on Renzong I was more than willing to give it a chance, especially since there were quite a few female characters that I liked, that seemed to have a complicated but empathic inner life, especially the empress. But wow, over 70 episodes later and the drama has managed to make every woman in this drama a Renzong fangirl, no matter how atrociously he treated her. Even the empress who initially was unhappy for very understandable reasons, who got sexually assaulted by her husband, had this rape turn into her being happy afterwards, like something out of gone with the wind. This isn't the 1930s, as an audience I sure do not want to see that. And then have Huirou's husband also attempt to rape her while she is drugged and EVERYONE excusing it, first and foremost her dad who blames everything that happens on her. It's galling. Also, the princess died *miserably* at 33, thanks to her father, in fact her fate was so terrible that three! later emperor's raised grade posthumously.

If you're planning on watching this I can only say: Don't.

I have no idea if he had botox, but his face just doesn't really express any emotions imo.

I keep watching this mostly for the FL, Alan's stiff plastic face is a hoot but idk why people are interested in him t b h ...

Ohh it was extended? That might explain a lot. I still think the Joker plotline was not great but having a tighter episode count could have cut out on a lot of stuff I didnt end up liking.

I am very glad that the ending of this show managed to instill in me some of the delight that the earlier half did and even managed to make me laugh and go aw and be sad. But goddamn, the last few eps before that almost killed my love for this show, so looking back I can say I am satisfied but there were some very questionable steps in the middle.

Maybe it's because I too am the child of a single mother who then got a stepdad, and I'm not Korean, but I really didnt like the way they handled the breakup and everything.

Pil-gu is allowed to have his feelings and fears and anxieties, but why must Dongbaek give up her chance at happiness just to raise Pil-gu well? Love is not something that (should) diminish just because you add one more person to the family, instead pil-gu could have grown up with an awesome, loving step-dad into the same adult we saw in the preview.

The reasoning Dongbaek gives for the breakup is that she fears Pil-gu will become like her, which I honestly dont understand, her situation and Pil-gus Situation are entirely different and how is having one more person to love Pil-gu - which I think it's pretty clear that Yong-shik does - a bad thing? What they should have done is have an age appropriate talk with Pil-gu, some therapy for all of them and a really intense talk with Yong-shiks mom about not shouting in the streets how she doesnt like her son's girlfriend if she doesnt want to be overheard by that girlfriends son.

Of course it doesnt have to be handled like this, and I dont know how they'll resolve the plot in the next 2 eps, but for now it sure looks like Pil-gu will "allow" Dongbaek to be happy now, now that hes an adult and doesnt need her as much anymore and that's incredibly off-putting and paternalistic to me.

This added to the fact that hyang-mi died and the way it was resolved really fell flat for me this drama really isnt holding up for me at the moment which is sad, since I had it rated pretty highly.

In the drama it is obvious he has never slept with the concubine and would never sleep with the concubine (esp since she was a spy sent from his stepmother). Idk why you are asking people to judge this drama based on book-spoilers(!!) when that is not what happened on screen.

I haven't read these book spoilers so I couldnt comment on them, but what is clear from the start of their relationship in the show is that the main couple in MingLan will stay true to one another. Hell that's the main thrust of their relationship.