Polo749

So the reason NDS is disliked is because he aggressively tries to prevent HJP and DM from getting together (edit: by using the lie to his advantage and doubling down on it)? Yes I have noticed that and it's such an odd choice for the writer to make. To at times write him as though he's an obstacle for the main couple. Maybe this writer is a genius after all and it's all deliberate. They even hired a lead actor to mislead people. Not that I would like that as it seems cheap but it would be clever. Especially since this lead actor had a bad experience with being the unpopular male lead once before (School 2015). I won't believe it until I see it though. I do feel bad for the actor. I don't think most people are blaming him but still.

Do you mean that they made NDS seem unsympathetic? It only makes sense that DM would ask HJP why he did what he did but I think it would have worked better if HJP had come up with the lie that they're like brothers. HJP doesn't have a questionable motive for lying. What was wrong with the 15 years scene? I can't remember it clearly. I agree the rivalry scenes are tedious and sometimes hard to watch.

Here are my thoughts on why I think NDS keeps getting blamed for everything (no hate). If anyone noticed, I kept deleting this and commenting it again because I copied and pasted it but it kept pasting wrong.

HJP and Grandma write a fake letter to DM in which they use NDS’ identity because HJP doesn’t want to use his name. It’s made very clear that HJP doesn’t want to do this. He only does it as a favour to Grandma.

The story continues when DM tries to find NDS and instead of telling her the truth they play another risky game by getting the real NDS involved. Note that at this point Grandma wants to maintain the lie and HJP goes along with it for Grandma’s sake just like how it started.

NDS doesn’t want to be part of it but apparently is so touched by the letters that he decides to go along with it. He then foolishly prolongs things instead of cutting her out like HJP advised. This was portrayed as though he just got carried away, it’s not meant to be an opportunistic ploy.

Grandma then decides to tell DM the truth. HJP tells NDS that Grandma is going to tell her everything. NDS convinces HJP to carry on with the lie. He’ll make himself a real CEO and only lie about the letters. He knows that at this point HJP has no intention of telling her himself. NDS is no longer just carried away but rather he’s thinking things through.

HJP convinces Grandma. Up until this point HJP was going along with what Grandma wanted but now he’s convincing her to lie. It’s portrayed as though it’s for DM’s sake and implied that he’s doing it because he likes her.

The next opportunity to tell her is when she discovers NDS at Sandbox. If memory serves he was about to admit everything but then she makes her own assumptions and he runs with it.

HJP also continues to run with it until she confronts him and then he’s about to tell her when NDS interrupts. He stops her from going to find HJP and tells her another lie. HJP runs with the lie, he’s still not willing to tell her if he can help it.

As feelings grow between NDS and DM he decides to tell her the truth because he’s not comfortable with the lie. HJP accepts this at first but then wants to be the one to tell her because he wants to know if he stands a chance (this is my memory of the scene anyway, correct me if I’m wrong). Unfortunately those plans are put on hold by Grandma’s new secret. When HJP realises the plan has been aborted he accepts it. He'd still rather not tell her.

I think those are all the times she was almost told. The writer has had to go back and forth between who is planning to tell her and who intervenes so as to drag it out.

NDS comes off worse because he’s benefiting from the lie the most. As he starts to fall for her this brings with it a questionable possible motive. It comes across like he didn’t want DM to find out because he wanted to carry on receiving her feelings. However, just because he benefits, doesn't mean that's why he does it. It’s clearly meant to be sweet but the writer either overlooked how selfish it seems or just has a strange idea of what’s sweet.

A similar criticism could be levelled at Grandma. Grandma started this for supposedly sweet reasons but who would find it touching if their Grandma asked someone to fake letters to them? We either have to suspend our disbelief and allow the writer to tell us it’s sweet or we have to reject what the writer tells us and interpret it in our own way (it could be seen as interfering and showing a blatant disregard for boundaries). You could argue that in Grandma’s case it’s sweet because it’s meant to benefit DM and that in NDS’ case it isn’t because it’s meant to benefit him but it’s not clear that’s why he does it. Again, this goes back to whether he does it for DM’s sake or for his own.

HJP also had his “sweet” reason in that he was doing Grandma a favour. It felt like the writer went to some length at the beginning to let us know how meaningless the letters were to HJP so that we wouldn’t ship (HAHAHAHAHAHA). He then goes out of his way to set things up for DM and it's made clear that this is because he feels grateful and indebted to Grandma. Then his motives seem to shift and he starts doing it for DM’s sake. Then he has that moment where he goes to tell DM with NDS before he knows the plan has changed. Again, if I remember correctly he wants to find out how she will take it but my memory is really hazy. In any case, it’s always easy to accept what the writer tells us are his motives. There’s no such clarity for NDS, although it should be kept in mind that NDS was about to tell her until he found out about Grandma.

I think this highlights why there’s such a schism in the fandom when it comes to interpreting NDS’ actions. The question is, should we suspend our disbelief and accept the writer’s logic or should we interpret it the way it comes across and disregard what the writer is telling us? The third option is to do what I’ve been doing and just level all the criticism at the writer. Either way I don't actually think NDS comes across as bad as some have said given that he did want to tell her but changed his mind because of the Grandma. I think that may have been the only moment where I could actually trust his motive because he went there with every intention of telling her.

We're meant to feel like the characters and their actions are real. It's the writer's job to create and maintain that illusion. My point was that I don't find NDS believable, it's too obvious that the writer is pulling the strings. If NDS was meant to be manipulative I would dislike him. Since it's obviously an accident, the illusion is broken and I only dislike the writing. I can't dislike a character I don't believe in.

"Even though she is suppose to be in love with NDS, without doing anything, HJP is making her interested about him. Just by being him."

This sums up not just DM but the writers and the audience. We're all just drawn to him even though we're meant to be focused on NDS. Of course that's not true for everyone but LMAO.

Bland might have been the wrong word to describe their scenes and some of them are outright romantic. My point was just that even when there's nothing that could be construed as romantic happening it still comes across that way.

I can see why you would say the lies make it more exciting. I think so too but for me it's more from HJP's perspective. I'm starting to annoy myself though for talking so much about it. I keep wanting to give the comments a rest but I've left so many that I keep going back to respond to people (not that I mind) and then I have more thoughts and comment again.

Thanks, I'm glad to share my thoughts with you too.

I think you're right that DM developed feelings for NDS that are nothing to do with the letters but initially it was the letters and I think they still play a big part. Whatever is real between them is still being dwarfed by the letters, hence that scene with the Grandma when DM says she would still choose the old NDS from the letters. The problem is that we've been given a love story that hinges on her misunderstanding who he is and projecting her feelings onto him. Even if NDS didn't understand that, it's not the most romantic setup. I just don't think they've got a good love story. I could go on for ages about what I think is wrong with this drama. You might wonder why I even watch it but it's because there are things about it that I love. I just wish it had all been executed better. If I had it my way it would be a different story but with the same characters.

Is it that bad? I've tried hard not to be too harsh or to antagonise and just express my opinion and I think many others are trying to do the same with a few exceptions.

I know, their scenes together are amazing even if at face value their interactions are banal they have so much chemistry but I stand by that it's due to the psychological distance between them. HJP clearly likes her but she likes NDS (partly for real and partly because she's projecting) and won't be happy when she finds out that NDS from the letters isn't real. This is why we as the audience feel tension when we watch their otherwise bland scenes.

As far as him turning the misunderstanding into reality, I have a bad feeling that it will happen off screen. There will be a time jump and low and behold he's transformed. You are right that I may be speaking too soon but I can't see them coming back from the mess they've made with his character in a way that's satisfying and changes how I view his character arc so far.

DM could still have joined Startup if she hadn't met NDS. She joined out of ambition and to win her bet with her sister. NDS also could have joined Startup out of ambition. Both of them could still easily have ended up there without meeting each other prior, it wouldn't have been hard to write. Anyway I wasn't really talking about how they met but about their love story. When they fall for each other DM is mostly just projecting onto him her feelings for the NDS in the letters. He knows this but allows it to continue. I don't think that makes him the devil incarnate like some but it does hurt his character and it's certainly not romantic.

It's a nice sentiment and I wish the drama reflected that better. I feel like that's what they were probably going for. They've succeeded with HJP but not so much with NDS. Some people will probably disagree with me about that but they should have got together under different circumstances. As it is, he's mostly just mislead her and benefited from it. It makes me so sad when I think about NDS in the first few episodes. I was so ready to ship them together back then.

I increasingly don't mind that HJP won't get the girl. This drama has so many problems that I'm losing my emotional investment in it. I almost feel glad that he's not getting the girl because that's a big part of his appeal. His story is actually more romantic that way. The only other two characters I've shipped as much as this were the FL and SML in Reply 1988. In that case too, it was romantic because we could see how painful it was for him to be too hesitant to go after her. Ideally, in the end it would all work out anyway but the journey should be painful and uncertain, that's what creates that unanswerable need for two people to end up together. That and a solid foundation (doesn’t have to be a romantic one, just a plot-relevant one). It's a shame writers don't get that. Whenever the characters are actually meant to end up together it's nowhere near as tense as it should be because it’s obvious, not just because of the plot but also because of the advertising.

I think the problem is we're being asked to see him as a nice character when he's clearly not. Or rather, the nice character is being written so poorly that he just doesn't come across as nice or the "better choice". If this story were a fall from grace story in which NDS was the lead then people wouldn't dislike him as much but it's not. It's meant to be a love story and I'm sorry but the writers don't know what they're doing. There is nothing romantic about what has gone down and if you're emotionally invested (as you're meant to be) it's easy to dislike NDS and to resent being asked to like him or see him as a "Living Buddha". Personally I feel more strongly towards the writers than the character but if people are too emotionally invested I can see how they would take it out on the character.

I don't think it's confirmed, I think it's just a theory based on photos of the cast. In recent photos they look like effort has been put into making them look older, mainly because of their haircuts. It might not be that though. I hope not, I don't like time jumps that happen late in the story.

I don't want to say he's a lost cause but I don't think they'll be able to salvage him completely. The time jump will help them start over but it won't be very satisfying. I usually don't like time jumps because they are often used as a way of backing out of a corner that the writers have got themselves into. I think he should have been introduced differently. They could have met for the first time at Sandbox and he shouldn't have been the person Grandma and HJP used to write the letters. I don't like what I'm expecting them to do which is to have him come back transformed after a time jump. It won't change his poor backstory with the female lead and it won't be satisfying if his transformation happens off screen. From the beginning, his character arc should have been focused on making him a competent CEO. Instead he is demoted and then has a fall from Grace by exploiting a lie/misunderstanding. There's nothing wrong with a fall from Grace story but I don't think that's what the writer actually meant for this drama to be and it shows. It's meant to be a romance story but it has really missed the mark.

I wouldn't blame the fans as much as the writers. The writers have written him poorly and given people reasons to hate him. I personally find it too transparent that it's just bad writing so I don't actually dislike the character and I wish people would stop antagonising each other but really he has been badly handled. I said before that I was expecting HJP's character to be ruined by the love triangle but it winded up being NDS' character that suffered.

I've read conflicting comments about DH. I've read that she ends up with the male lead, I've also read that she ends up with second male lead and to confuse things even more I've read a comment that said she didn't end up with either of them. I mean which is it?

Yes I've been thinking this too. I don't want her to choose either of them. The plot has developed in such a way that I feel like it's too late to salvage a love story with either of them.

I don't think it's so much that the writer didn't put enough effort into NDS, I think it's more that NDS is just naturally not as relevant as HJP. So much of the plot revolves around those letters. It all starts with the letters. Later, DM wants to find NDS because he was part of her lie to her sister. Meeting her sister again and meeting who she believes to be her pen-pal who is all successful ignites her competitiveness and she decides to join Sandbox. She is then naturally drawn to NDS because of the letters. The letters are the elephant in the room. It doesn't matter even if they were a complete fabrication and had nothing of HJP in them, they still have more to do with HJP than NDS because he actually helped write them. How genuine they are is irrelevant. It makes sense that both the writers and the viewers lean more towards HJP because he is actually more important to the story. Even the way NDS is introduced is forced. Why use a real person from the newspaper? It makes more sense to just make up a name. In fact, it was a strange thing for the Grandma to do anyway. Asking HJP to be her pen-pal is all well and good, even allowing him to make up a name is still fine, but completely faking his identity including his age is just bizarre and unnecessary. There's nothing wrong with having a slightly older pen-pal, as long as she has someone to talk to why does he have to be her age? NDS just doesn't fit in very well and even if the writer had tried to give him more screen time and backstory I don't think it would have solved the problem. In fact, it would have only highlighted it.

HJP is the accidental lead in this drama. It all started with him and so much of the story is told from his point of view, even more than DM's. For that reason I'm going to consider the inevitable ending to be a sad one. I know many people will be happy because it will end with their ship but it's not an overall happy ending if the main character isn't happy. I still can't fathom how this happens. I think it's because they're focusing on the love triangle. When it's more about Startup HJP doesn't seem so much like the main character but whenever it goes back to the love triangle he's the lead again.

Found this in an article about protagonists-

The protagonist faces challenges, particularly the central challenge or conflict within the story.
- This accurately describes DM, NDS and HJP, although it's not really clear what the central challenge is yet.

The protagonist wants or needs something (has a goal).
- Applies to all three, I'd say in the order of DM, NDS and then HJP.

The antagonist’s actions are interfering with the protagonist’s ability to achieve the goal.
- So far, applies to DM and NDS (I'm thinking of the conflict with the step dad).

The protagonist makes choices or decisions, which are usually difficult.
- Applies to all three fairly equally I think but varies at different points in the drama.

The choices made by the protagonist lead to consequences, good and bad.
- All three.

The protagonist undergoes personal transformation, which is often dramatic, as a result of the events within the story.
- Probably will turn out to be all three.

At its heart, the story is often about the protagonist; it is the protagonist’s story.
- I feel like this mostly applies to HJP, then DM and least of all NDS.