I think I understand what the writer is trying to do with this drama. She’s attempting to play with Kdrama tropes by setting up a stereotypical male lead but making him the second lead. The problem is, it feels like a double bluff. Why?
It's not just that the writer wanted to give us a story about a nerdy, struggling, likeable character winning out over a wealthy, successful and more confident character. If that was all she was trying to do she'd have set things up differently. For instance, she'd have made HJP less likeable and sympathetic. No, she intentionally set things up so that HJP could easily be the male lead but then pulled the rug out from under us early on and gave us a different male lead. This isn’t a bad idea in principle but I don’t think she’s pulled it off. Too many people are dissatisfied with the male lead which suggests that something isn’t working.
Take the Song of Ice and Fire series (Game of Thrones). The author sets things up in such a way that just when you think you understand what’s going on, he pulls the rug out from underneath you and says, nope that’s not it, don’t go thinking you know where this is going just because you watched/read LOTR fifty times. The twists partly rely on the reader thinking they know what’s coming based on what they’re used to from that genre. However, that’s not all there is to it. If he just relied on people’s expectations of the genre in order to create twists, people would feel cheated. In truth, the series is just as full of fantasy tropes as any other fantasy work. The reason he can pull the rug out is because the story is so well developed and complex that there’s still another rug waiting underneath that suits just as well if not better.
If as well as HJP there was an equally good or better character, who was as embedded into the plot as him and who had as much personality and depth as him, then the writer might’ve succeeded at what she was attempting to do. As it is, we have a character who ultimately falls flat by comparison. HJP is a character with a story in his own right, just like SDM. NDS on the other hand, is almost piggy backing off both of them. HJP is the reason he is brought into the story in the first place. SDM is the reason he gets to stay in the story because she gets him into Sandbox. When NDS was first introduced he had more to be said for him. He had his relationship with his parents and his struggling business with his friends. He was both humorous and sympathetic. Most importantly, he wasn’t taking up too much space for what he offered.
HJP has a backstory, relationships (well one anyway) and inner conflicts that while all his own, intertwine effortlessly with SDM. NDS has a backstory, relationships and inner conflicts that either have nothing to do with SDM or are too reliant on SDM and HJP. His inner conflict about his part in the lie is a good point as far as his characterisation goes but he only has a part in the lie in the first place because of HJP’s and SDM’s storylines. As it is, there’s just not enough to make him a convincing male lead. Some people will still love him, he is after all played by NJH but if so many people in the fandom feel so strongly about him not being right for the male lead then he’s probably not right.
That’s why it feels like a double bluff. I don’t think it is a double bluff. It’s just that the writer, while trying to play with tropes, failed to create enough of them to pull it off. You can’t play chess with half the pieces missing. To be honest though, in spite of myself I’m still hoping it is a double bluff.
It feels like she hates him. Or maybe she hates us for complaining so much and she's making him suffer to punish…
My theory is this: Writer wanted to give the drama a twist and make the rich successful character the second lead and the work in progress character the first lead. Not bad in theory but she has executed it terribly. She accidentally fell into the same old pattern and wrote the rich successful character as though he's the first lead, forgetting that he's meant to be second and failing to account for the switch in the plot. She may have done this deliberately. She might have thought it would add to the twist if she gave second lead the backstory and also if she gave the audience his perspective. If that's the case that was just a bad idea. There's a good reason why the first lead has the backstory and why the viewers see more from his perspective than that of the second lead. That's what makes us ship. The fact that we got so much of HJP's perspective has made him seem like the lead and the fact that he's not just feels wrong.
No exaggeration, I'm now only watching HJP scenes, I barely know what happened this episode.
I couldn't help feeling really annoyed with Yong San and Cheol San. Can anyone tell me if they passed on the message to SDM about plan B?
I had a sneaking suspicion the revenge plot would be centred around HJP (assuming Yong San is the revenge guy and it's not a separate storyline). Why is HJP getting all the main storylines when he's not the male lead? The love triangle is just as focused on HJP's perspective as NDS' perspective (if not more), he's the one who faked the letters with Grandma and now he's also got the revenge plot. I don't hate NDS (and by the way I love the actor) but really what is the point of his character? When does the story actually become about him?
Maybe it's because I still haven't grasped how comment sections work. It seemed like you were replying to me but were you replying to Amruta1009 as well? In any case, your comment appeared in my messages so I was just explaining that I don't care about the genuineness of the letters one way or the other.
Yes, so you keep saying. It really doesn't matter to me that the letters weren't genuine. It was Amruta1009 who was comparing him to Cyrano so you responded to the wrong person. I was just saying I liked Cyrano better than Christian.
The comments have taken a really negative turn today. There's always been arguments and some rude people but it's only today that I feel like not coming back here anymore. I feel both let down by "my side" for going so overboard and defensive against the other side for talking about "my side" as though we're all like that. I hope things turn around but I won't hold my breath. It's a shame when comment sections are ruined like this.
Well, its seems like if everyone isn't on HJP's side, then they will be hated by his fans.. a case study for grandma…
Yes, I love HJP but I'm starting to disagree with how some are responding to his storyline. I think this drama would've been a lot better if HJP were the lead but I'm trying to look at it as objectively as possible. It feels like more and more people are giving up on that and giving into their bias. Like you said, it's only going to make people resent the character. It certainly won't convince anyone. I can understand the frustration (I've left some mildly negative comments about NDS and some very negative comments about how the drama has been written) but I hope everyone calms down.
I must be the only person on team HJP who thinks Grandma was right to tell him not to tell SDM. If he told SDM for his own benefit, knowing that she would be seriously hurt, that would've been a bad turn for his character. I was actually surprised because I was fully expecting the writers to make him that guy but they decided to save him. At least that's how I saw it.
Think about it, he's not endgame. So all that would've happened is he'd have temporarily got in the way of NDS and SDM, thereby rendering him the typical second lead who is just there as an obstacle for the main couple. As it is, it's not good boy's fault that NDS and SDM are in trouble. They will have their little drama, get back together and HJP is none the worse as a character. He's still the character we know and love, he's not been utterly betrayed and thrown under the bus by the writers.
If you were hoping for him to tell her and then for her to run into his arms and change the direction of the story I can see why you would be disappointed. If, like me, you were expecting him to act out of character to provide drama for the main couple, you are now pleasantly surprised and relieved that it didn't go that route (at least not yet).
Edit: Grandma is the reason why HJP is "good boy". She didn't just name him that, she made him that way. The scene where she tells him not to ruin things for SDM and NDS isn't just her looking out for those two, it's her keeping good boy on the right track.
The worst part is the writers/director try to make him a victim in every damn scenario. Its sooo irritating.
I really didn't get that from that scene. It felt like she was mentally kicking HJP for not telling her sooner. I thought it was played as though she was really regretful about having to tell him not to do anything. I'll reiterate what I've already said, I actually think this was a good episode for HJP. If he had gone and told SDM and if Grandma had encouraged him, that would be a step in the wrong direction for his character. It's better that he remained the person the audience fell in love with. I want SDM and HJP to end up together (although I know they won't) but mostly I want HJP's character to not take a hit because of this love triangle. I was expecting the writers to have him tell SDM but then for it to backfire on him and not only would he have done the selfish thing but he'd have lost the girl as well. He's bound to lose her anyway but at least his character should remain intact.
The worst part is the writers/director try to make him a victim in every damn scenario. Its sooo irritating.
I can understand the Grandma. Not about doubling down on the lie and giving NDS the letter but about telling HJP not to get in the way. They both orchestrated NDS coming into her life, now they're in a relationship and HJP can't just go back on everything because he's decided he wants SDM himself. It's too late to just tell her the truth and apologise. At this point, the only two people who should tell her are Grandma and NDS.
i really like HJP. Im sad for him too. but still, what did you expect,?
You said it made you mad that people are hating on NDS, that's what I was referring to. I don't think many people here would approve of death threats or hate aimed at the actors. I'm pretty sure most of us agree that's overboard to say the least.
I was a little annoyed at the first 40-50 mins or so of the episode. The whole time, they were painting HJP as…
I also liked the moment where HJP wants to switch places with NDS, implying he'd give up everything he has for SDM. I know those weren't his exact words and some people don't like the wording that was used but that's what he meant. NDS also wouldn't want to be in HJP's shoes if it meant he couldn't have SDM. Both NDS and HJP would rather be in NDS' shoes and have SDM than be in HJP's shoes and not have SDM. So whoever gets the girl is far less pitiful than whoever doesn't, regardless of wealth and status. I sort of wish it had been pointed out that NDS has a family and HJP doesn't but it wouldn't be in character for HJP to say that. In fact, it seemed like he was about to but then changed his mind and instead made fun of NDS for claiming he's the most pitiful one. I might be reading too much into that scene but it seems like something HJP would do. He wouldn't want to exploit his own weaknesses to his advantage. He'd be too embarrassed to say, "well you have a family and I don't" because it sounds too self-pitying.
i really like HJP. Im sad for him too. but still, what did you expect,?
I know it was obvious. I don't hate NDS but I'm not remotely invested in him. The fact that he's obviously the lead isn't enough to make me invested. I'm glad you like him and I'm sorry it frustrates you that many people here don't. Just keep in mind that we're probably more likely to comment if something frustrates us, so there's probably so many comments from HJP fans because the story isn't going our way. We need to vent. Plenty of people agree with you about NDS, they're just not as vocal because their ship will sail. I stand by that HJP would've made a better ML than NDS but I might be wrong and I know not everyone agrees with me.
i really like HJP. Im sad for him too. but still, what did you expect,?
We can't always ensure that what we want to see is the same as what we expect to see. It's not that we got our hopes up, we just think it would've made a better story if HJP were the lead.
People keep pointing out that the writers weren't expecting HJP's popularity but I can't fathom how they didn't notice what a fantastic character he is. Writers used to know, or at least they had a good instinct how to tell a story, how to utilise all of their characters and how to satisfy the majority of their audience. Today they don't seem to know what they're doing.
Actually they do know what they're doing. They look for lowest common denominators and rely on cheap tricks to bring in the audience. Maybe it works to some extent but I honestly don't think this drama would be as popular if it weren't for HJP- an accidentally well written character. He could be written better but he's definitely one of the stronger characters I've seen in K-dramas (helps that they got KSH). Take out the cheap tricks such as the love triangle and this drama would probably be more popular. Cheap love triangles only work when one of the characters is useless/uninteresting/unlikeable and that character is the one who won't win. Even then, they don't work as well as having a strong storyline and well written characters.
Of course, not all love triangles are cheap but I won't get into that because that's a whole essay. I'll just say that I think in this case it's cheap because the premise of it is silly. The whole letters thing doesn't make any sense and the fact that they lied for so long doesn't make any sense.
Nevertheless, I actually did enjoy HJP's scenes today. I might be in the minority but I appreciate him admitting his feelings, him falling out with Grandma but then ultimately making the right decision (we could over analyse whether or not it actually was the right decision but I'm going by K-drama logic not real life logic). I don't mind seeing my favourite character suffer as long as it makes sense. I don't think it makes sense that he won't end up with SDM but looking only at the context of today's episode it all seemed just right to me.
It's not just that the writer wanted to give us a story about a nerdy, struggling, likeable character winning out over a wealthy, successful and more confident character. If that was all she was trying to do she'd have set things up differently. For instance, she'd have made HJP less likeable and sympathetic. No, she intentionally set things up so that HJP could easily be the male lead but then pulled the rug out from under us early on and gave us a different male lead. This isn’t a bad idea in principle but I don’t think she’s pulled it off. Too many people are dissatisfied with the male lead which suggests that something isn’t working.
Take the Song of Ice and Fire series (Game of Thrones). The author sets things up in such a way that just when you think you understand what’s going on, he pulls the rug out from underneath you and says, nope that’s not it, don’t go thinking you know where this is going just because you watched/read LOTR fifty times. The twists partly rely on the reader thinking they know what’s coming based on what they’re used to from that genre. However, that’s not all there is to it. If he just relied on people’s expectations of the genre in order to create twists, people would feel cheated. In truth, the series is just as full of fantasy tropes as any other fantasy work. The reason he can pull the rug out is because the story is so well developed and complex that there’s still another rug waiting underneath that suits just as well if not better.
If as well as HJP there was an equally good or better character, who was as embedded into the plot as him and who had as much personality and depth as him, then the writer might’ve succeeded at what she was attempting to do. As it is, we have a character who ultimately falls flat by comparison. HJP is a character with a story in his own right, just like SDM. NDS on the other hand, is almost piggy backing off both of them. HJP is the reason he is brought into the story in the first place. SDM is the reason he gets to stay in the story because she gets him into Sandbox. When NDS was first introduced he had more to be said for him. He had his relationship with his parents and his struggling business with his friends. He was both humorous and sympathetic. Most importantly, he wasn’t taking up too much space for what he offered.
HJP has a backstory, relationships (well one anyway) and inner conflicts that while all his own, intertwine effortlessly with SDM. NDS has a backstory, relationships and inner conflicts that either have nothing to do with SDM or are too reliant on SDM and HJP. His inner conflict about his part in the lie is a good point as far as his characterisation goes but he only has a part in the lie in the first place because of HJP’s and SDM’s storylines. As it is, there’s just not enough to make him a convincing male lead. Some people will still love him, he is after all played by NJH but if so many people in the fandom feel so strongly about him not being right for the male lead then he’s probably not right.
That’s why it feels like a double bluff. I don’t think it is a double bluff. It’s just that the writer, while trying to play with tropes, failed to create enough of them to pull it off. You can’t play chess with half the pieces missing. To be honest though, in spite of myself I’m still hoping it is a double bluff.
I couldn't help feeling really annoyed with Yong San and Cheol San. Can anyone tell me if they passed on the message to SDM about plan B?
I had a sneaking suspicion the revenge plot would be centred around HJP (assuming Yong San is the revenge guy and it's not a separate storyline). Why is HJP getting all the main storylines when he's not the male lead? The love triangle is just as focused on HJP's perspective as NDS' perspective (if not more), he's the one who faked the letters with Grandma and now he's also got the revenge plot. I don't hate NDS (and by the way I love the actor) but really what is the point of his character? When does the story actually become about him?
Think about it, he's not endgame. So all that would've happened is he'd have temporarily got in the way of NDS and SDM, thereby rendering him the typical second lead who is just there as an obstacle for the main couple. As it is, it's not good boy's fault that NDS and SDM are in trouble. They will have their little drama, get back together and HJP is none the worse as a character. He's still the character we know and love, he's not been utterly betrayed and thrown under the bus by the writers.
If you were hoping for him to tell her and then for her to run into his arms and change the direction of the story I can see why you would be disappointed. If, like me, you were expecting him to act out of character to provide drama for the main couple, you are now pleasantly surprised and relieved that it didn't go that route (at least not yet).
Edit: Grandma is the reason why HJP is "good boy". She didn't just name him that, she made him that way. The scene where she tells him not to ruin things for SDM and NDS isn't just her looking out for those two, it's her keeping good boy on the right track.
Actually they do know what they're doing. They look for lowest common denominators and rely on cheap tricks to bring in the audience. Maybe it works to some extent but I honestly don't think this drama would be as popular if it weren't for HJP- an accidentally well written character. He could be written better but he's definitely one of the stronger characters I've seen in K-dramas (helps that they got KSH). Take out the cheap tricks such as the love triangle and this drama would probably be more popular. Cheap love triangles only work when one of the characters is useless/uninteresting/unlikeable and that character is the one who won't win. Even then, they don't work as well as having a strong storyline and well written characters.
Of course, not all love triangles are cheap but I won't get into that because that's a whole essay. I'll just say that I think in this case it's cheap because the premise of it is silly. The whole letters thing doesn't make any sense and the fact that they lied for so long doesn't make any sense.
Nevertheless, I actually did enjoy HJP's scenes today. I might be in the minority but I appreciate him admitting his feelings, him falling out with Grandma but then ultimately making the right decision (we could over analyse whether or not it actually was the right decision but I'm going by K-drama logic not real life logic). I don't mind seeing my favourite character suffer as long as it makes sense. I don't think it makes sense that he won't end up with SDM but looking only at the context of today's episode it all seemed just right to me.