Polo749

Yes you make a good point but I meant endgame.

Okay, I've finally done it. I've finally convinced myself that HJP is the lead. I'm so screwed.

I would say that the main thing stopping me from thinking HJP is the lead based on the story (as opposed to the promotional stuff) is the kiss scene and the fact that SDM has feelings for NDS that have nothing to do with the letters. The latter point was implied in the after credits scene where she "hypothetically" chooses one or the other.

I saw a comment suggesting that the kiss scene had been added later due to the writers panicking that people were shipping her with the wrong one. This would explain why it's not acknowledged afterwards. It's like it was forgotten, unless I'm the one forgetting things.

Another possibility is that it was always planned but they filmed it later so that they could get the autumn sky. The comment I referred to above suggested that while most of the episode was shot in the spring, the kiss scene was shot in October. Why then was it not acknowledged afterwards?

An explanation for why the kiss scene was forgotten is that the writers didn't want to make a big thing of it because he's not the lead but then why add it at all? Maybe they thought it would be unrealistic and therefore a giveaway if SDM and NDS didn't kiss. I'm not confident about this theory but I'm putting it out there.

As for SDM developing real feelings for NDS, that does suggest to me that NDS is the main lead. If her feelings for NDS were entirely based on the letters that would really undermine the main ship so it makes sense that the writers would show something real between them. Something they could return to after she recovers from the lies.

Edit: On the other hand, it's not particularly problematic that SDM develops feelings for the real NDS. It wouldn't be much of a win for HJP if he doesn't have legitimate competition.

Ugh, I want to stop getting my hopes up but my brain can't stop thinking up theories that will allow me to believe my ship has a chance. Oh well, I enjoy doing this.

Yes I usually hate time jumps when they come this late in the story (early ones are usually okay). I'll reserve my opinion until I've seen what they do with it.

Until the bitter end.

You mentioned NDS. That is the main reason why it would be too soon. The writers wouldn't want her to seem fickle.

I'm not trying to give you hope because I think it's still low but if HJP is endgame it would be too soon for SDM to have feelings for him. It would probably happen after the time jump if at all.

They probably will allow NDS to shine in the next episodes, particularly after the time jump. The story may get back on track and NDS will start to seem more like the lead but I can't imagine what could happen that will justify everything so far.

If HJP's backstory was a plot device to get the main leads together and then temporarily break up, isn't that way out of proportion? Surely the writer could've come up with something simpler.

Of course, the theory that everything so far has just been one big stall so that the story lasts 16 episodes could apply whether it's NDS or HJP. I just think it makes more sense if it's HJP. That doesn't mean it was intentional though.

Yes the time jump makes me hesitant too. It's just that I'm more hopeful than I was a few episodes ago.

I left you a reply to this but it was so long I ended up posting it as a general comment.

This was a response to ItsV but it's so long I just decided to submit it as a general comment.

Even if we focus on just the business side I would argue that HJP is still more important than NDS. Early on, I thought the business side of it would be focused on NDS becoming a good CEO. However, as soon as they got into Sandbox that went out the window and it became more about SDM's journey to becoming a good CEO. Who is the character mentoring her on that journey? HJP.

It may have just been bad writing but for the umpteenth time I can't help but notice that NDS seems like a plot device. So far, he's served a two part purpose (intentionally or not). The first part is to provide SDM a company to be CEO of, thereby allowing her journey and character arc through the business world. The second part is to provide the reason why SDM doesn't know who HJP is. HJP brings him into the story as a temporary solution to a problem created by a combination of his, Grandma's and SDM's lies (to her sister). NDS then sticks around and makes it harder for A) the truth to come out and B) HJP to admit his feelings for SDM.

Like I said, it may just be the result of some very bizarre choices on the writer's part but I think the above is an accurate description of the plot so far. NDS hasn't been treated the way I would expect a male lead to be treated while HJP has, despite some of the particularly pessimistic interpretations of his (HJP) scenes in this comment section.

I've said a couple of times now that I was expecting the writing of HJP's character to suffer in typical second lead fashion but it ended up being NDS who suffered. It's NDS whose storyline shrivelled away almost immediately to make room for SDM, it's NDS whose character development went in a negative rather than positive direction (unlike HJP) and it's NDS who keeps getting the short end of the stick in terms of who comes off worse in all the lying. For that last point, I think people have exaggerated and sometimes completely misinterpreted him but that's often what happens to second lead. The character of the second lead is treated less carefully and therefore it's easier to blame things on him.

Others in this comment section are still on edge looking out for signs that HJP is about to be thrown under the bus but ever since episode 9 I've been questioning if that's ever going to happen. While some have taken the revenge plot as proof that he's about to be vilified, I've cautiously taken it as almost proof that he's the more important character.

I was prepared a few episodes back to accept that HJP is not the lead and deal with it when he finally officially lost. I will still deal with it if that happens because it's only a drama. However, I'm now at a point where if HJP doesn't get the girl I will think of this drama as the most odd coincidental/accidental second lead syndrome I've ever seen. HJP is treated so much like the first lead and NDS so much like the second lead that it's almost unbelievable if it wasn't intentional. I don't think any drama with SLS can compare to just how perfectly NDS fits the role of the second lead and HJP fits the role of the first.

Is it possible that the reason NJH/NDS was and is promoted as the lead is because he's more popular than KSH? What I mean is, maybe HJP/KSH is the lead after all but because of the status of the actors they promoted it as though NJH is the lead.

Even now with the popularity that Startup has given KSH, NJH is still the more popular actor so it makes sense for them to promote him more even if he's not the lead.

Is there another Kdrama where the higher status actor has played second lead? If yes, how was it promoted?

LOL, sorry that was kind of abrupt. It's just getting late where I am.

Okay, I'm tired of arguing about this. Each to their own.

I should have clarified that I don't think you meant to be antagonistic, it's just that I think that's the only effect your comment will have. You can be antagonistic even with the truth. Like if it's very one sided or if your wording isn't careful. Like I said, I don't disagree that HJP fans can be awful and overbearing. I just don't think that comments like yours help, they only add to the fallout.

I didn't mean character development so much as characterisation, although how the character develops is obviously part of their characterisation. A character needs some depth for me to find them interesting. If the character doesn't grab me I'm not going to ship them with anyone. NDS just hasn't grabbed me. He did in the beginning but it faded fast. HJP on the other hand I find more and more interesting with every episode.

His characterisation as someone who takes a long time to admit his feelings because he's too afraid of getting hurt, the natural build up story-wise and character development-wise to when he finally tells her, his backstory with the female lead (regardless of the genuineness of the letters) and the grandmother, combined with his predicament as someone who does everything he can for SDM's sake, while she had know idea about some of it and never realised that it was for her even when she did know, means I can't help but see chemistry between them when they are on screen together. It's because as the viewer I know there's so much there, even if SDM doesn't know. The fact that she didn't know only made it more romantic because it added uncertainty. Moreover, all the above appeared very organically and didn't feel forced which makes it easier to believe and become invested in. If I were to try and pin point it, I think that's it. That's why I say characterisation and storylines are necessary for creating chemistry.

Okay, I'll try this again (third time). Can we stop misinterpreting and being overly critical of the other guy? Does anyone really believe that either NDS or HJP are meant to be bad people? Does anyone really believe that if we look at these two characters as though they are real and apply real life standards to them, they don't both come off terribly? Let's just accept the Kdrama logic and say they are both good people with flaws who make some questionable decisions. We don't need to argue about which one is better for her. The writer is telling us that they're both deserving but SDM can only pick one and it's ultimately her choice. Can't we just get on board with that?

I'm not saying we shouldn't argue about who would be better as the male lead but why are we actually talking about these fictional characters as though they're real? This drama doesn't deserve that. I would understand it if it were a better written more complex drama with highly believable characters but it's not. It's pretty simple and straightforward with the kind of plot and character development that makes it easy to digest. I have my opinions about which characters are better written and so on but none of these characters are well rounded enough to analyse them this much. They're not complex and this story isn't complex but going by the comments you'd think there was a lot of room for interpretation and I think both sides are guilty of that.

Is it just me?

Aren't you being antagonistic yourself by talking as though all HJP fans are unreasonable? No doubt some are and I fully understand why you wouldn't like that. I'm an HJP fan myself and I despair at some of the comments from other HJP fans but there's no need to talk about us all like that. I think the reason for it is because HJP is such a strong character that people feel particularly cheated that he's not the main lead. Some of us express it in a reasonable way and others not so much. It's not as though NDS fans are always perfect. I've had mostly good interactions but I did have one person tell me to fuck off over a comment that wasn't in any way offensive. You might be right that HJP fans are worse, I don't know because I haven't studied the comments enough to say but when you have a popular character there's always going to be a few more people who take things too far.

Also, I'll just add that as long as people are only talking about fictional characters does it really matter that much? I know some people have crossed the line and attacked the actors but you talked about how HJP fans are being overly critical of NDS (a point I agree with you on) which is why I bring that up. NDS fans can be overly critical of HJP as well.

I do find myself getting annoyed with NDS but I don't think I'm prone to misinterpreting him, I know it's just because I'm rooting for HJP. I may have misinterpreted him once but someone changed my mind about that.

I'm talking about storytelling and how you create chemistry between two characters. I'm not talking about chemistry between people in real life. I'm struggling to comprehend why you would bring up real life so I'm not sure what to say to that.

In a story, character development is crucial for creating chemistry. As are the storylines. If SDM ends up with HJP and they get a kiss scene and other emotional scenes will you change ship? Romantic scenes alone don't create chemistry between two fictional characters. The writer has to build up to it. How? Through the story and character development.

I can understand why you might disagree with me about NDS not having a good storyline or good character development but I can't understand why you would think that giving two people romantic and emotional scenes together is enough to create chemistry. If I find one of the characters lacklustre and their story boring I'm obviously not going to ship am I? I am much more likely to ship her with the character I find more interesting and who I think has a story that overlaps better with hers.

Just one correction, he left before the father died. Or at least before they knew the father had died.