Wanttowritesobad

I actually think some of your criticisms are fair, especially regarding the amount of exposition in the first two episodes. The series definitely spends a lot of time building P'Jane's reputation through rumors and other people's perspectives before letting us see more of who he is ourselves.

Where I disagree is with a few of your conclusions.

I don't think Little Jane is a Y/N or a blank slate. By episode 2, we already know he's brave enough not to be intimidated by status (the football scene with P'Jane), he has a dream of becoming a famous artist, he values earning things through his own effort (he refuses P'Jane's offer to make his dream come true), he is compassionate (he genuinely worries when P'Jane has a migraine) and he even spends time making P'Jane a handmade Valentine's gift. Those are not loud personality traits, but they're consistent ones, and they're actually what make P'Jane interested in him in the first place.

I also think it's a bit early to say every supporting character only exists to talk about P'Jane. Some characters, like Jui or Tee, mainly serve to establish how P'Jane's contract system works. Others, like Put, Gap, and later P'Dan, are recurring supporting characters, so I'm waiting to see what the series does with them before judging whether they have their own arcs or not.

As for Little Jane not asking enough questions, I actually understand that criticism because I had the same thought at times. P'Jane tells him more than once he can ask him anything, yet Little Jane often looks for answers elsewhere before confronting him. But I also think that fits Little Jane's character. The side story of episode 3 (on YouTube) explains that he wanted to ask questions but was afraid of the answers. He says he was scared P'Jane would reveal that scary side everyone talked about and admits he was terrified of being disappointed by P'Jane. At the same time, let's not forget that some of the things he heard from other people turned out to be true. For example, Put tells him that P'Jane is 27 and studied at Harvard. Later, Little Jane has the confirmation that P'Jane did in fact studied at Harvard and was 27 years old. After realizing that some of the rumors were based on real facts, it makes sense that Little Jane started looking for independent confirmation instead of relying only on what P'Jane told him.

I also think it's worth keeping in mind that you've only watched two episodes before writing this comment, while four episodes are already out. The first two episodes spend a lot of time building the mystery around P'Jane through rumors and what other people say about him. However, by episode 3 and 4, we start seeing more of who he is through his own actions and emotions instead of only hearing about him from other characters. You may still feel the same way after watching episodes 3 & 4, but I'd be curious to know if your opinion changes once you get there.

Of course, if you still feel the same way after catching up, that's completely fair. I just think two episodes are a bit early to judge where the writing is ultimately going.

I actually think we're getting closer in our interpretations than when we first started this discussion lol. I also think episode 4 showed that P'Jane is much more emotional than he initially appeared. That's why I personally have a harder time seeing power as his main motivation.

As for the "little society" idea, I can see why you read it that way. The contracts do create a network where P'Jane is at the center and people come to him because he can give them something no one else can. I just don't think that's enough to conclude that power is what fundamentally motivates him.

Where I still disagree is with the idea that Dan and P'Jane are mainly fighting over Little Jane as if Little Jane were the reward. I do think Dan and P'Jane know each other and have history, but by the time Dan appears in the series, Little Jane had already started doubting P'Jane because of the rumors and the things he was discovering. Dan gives him even more information about P'Jane's past, but he doesn't create the conflict. He deepens one that was already there. That's why P'Jane's reaction reads more like jealousy than a power struggle to me. I don't see someone who's upset because another man is challenging his authority. I see someone who's terrified of losing the person he loves.

I also keep coming back to the same question: if P'Jane's main motivation were power or control over people, why become obsessed with the one person he couldn't easily control when he already had countless others who feared him or wanted something from him? To me, that's the strongest indication that Little Jane is different. He didn't fall for Little Jane because he could control him, he fell for him precisely because he couldn't. It's only after he becomes emotionally attached that he falls back on control, because that's the only way he knows how to keep someone from leaving.

But with all of that being said, the reality is we are only 4 episodes in. I wouldn't be surprised if both of us end up changing our minds by episode 12 lol.

I read, and I replied :) I don't mind long comments at all, especially since I'm guilty of writing them myself. I like explaining my points as clearly as I can, and I had several things I wanted to address. Honestly, I'm enjoying this back-and-forth we're having, so the length of your comment doesn't bother me at all.

Here's the thing: if GOD is GOD, then he doesn't need human worship, fear, or adoration to have power, that power exists independent of all that. GOD being feared doesn't create his power, and GOD not being feared doesn't take it away either. His power simply IS, regardless of how people feel about him.

A religion, a reputation, or an ideology: those are the kinds of things whose power depends on how people collectively see and respond to them.

Belief, fear, worship or adoration are what give religions, reputations, and ideologies their power. They are not the source of GOD's power, and I don't think they're the source of P'Jane's power either.

So using the Jupiter example actually supports my point.

In Mythology, Jupiter (Zeus) doesn't get involved with mortals because he needs their fear or worship to stay powerful. He gets involved because of his own desires: love, jealousy, revenge, pride, or protecting people he cares about. His actions are driven by personal motives, not by a need to maintain his status as a god. His power exists regardless of whether he chooses to interfere with humans or not.

In fact, it's because Zeus already has divine power that he's able to intervene in those ways in the first place. His ability to transform, throw thunderbolts, or interfere in mortal lives comes from the fact that he is already a god, not from people fearing or worshipping him.

I think the same logic applies to P'Jane. It's because he already has money and connections that people come to him for favors in the first place. The contracts don't create his power. Actually, the contracts are possible because he ALREADY has the power to give people what they want.

P'Jane's power is the type of power that IS regardless of how people feel about him, because it comes from his money and his connections. Those are material, and they don't just disappear the moment someone stops fearing him.

You could ask: isn't fear what gives him influence in the first place? That's a fair question. I think fear makes it easier for him to use the influence he already has. People are more likely to obey him, avoid going against him, and not challenge him. But fear isn't where that influence comes from. He was born into money and connections. He didn't become rich because people feared him. If nobody feared him anymore, people would probably push back more and he might lose some leverage in certain situations. But he'd still be wealthy, he'd still have connections, and he'd still have power.

Fear can make power stronger, but it doesn't create it.

You can also say that P'Jane could lose his power. I agree, but it would ultimately happen through material causes (losing his money or his connections withdrawing), not simply because people stopped fearing him. His core power depends on those material realities, not on fear itself. Fear can make exercising that power easier, but it isn't what creates it in the first place.

The same goes for the idea that "he needs contracts more than people need him". Honestly, what would he actually lose without those contracts? Definitely not his money, not his connections, and not his influence. At most, he'd lose leverage in certain situations. But that's a loss of one way to exercise his power, not a loss of the power itself.

Again, whether people worship him or not, whether people fear him or not, whether he controls people or not, his power remains.

The reason I'm making this distinction is because having power and being motivated by power are two different questions. My point is: nothing in the series (up until now) convinces me that accumulating or preserving power is what fundamentally drives P'Jane's actions.

There is a particular information that directly contradicts the idea that power is P'Jane's main motivation. He refused to make a contract with Jui, the girl being abused by her ex-boyfriend. He tells Little Jane she cheated and stole from people, so what happened to her was the consequence of her own choices. If P'Jane's goal was simply to gain power/control over people, that was a perfect chance for him. The girl was vulnerable, easy to take advantage of. Yet he refused to make a contract with her. Someone chasing power/control over people wouldn't miss an opportunity like that.

As for the contract with Little Jane specifically: I also think there's an aspect of punishment to it. After all, P'Jane looked genuinely hurt when he said Little Jane ended up being just like everyone else, believing the rumors instead of trusting him. So I wouldn't say there's zero punishment involved (especially knowing P'Jane's character).

However, I don't think the main purpose of the contract is to control or punish Little Jane. I think it's to make sure he doesn't leave again. The contract gives P'Jane a way to keep Little Jane close because he can literally ask for anything in return (those are the terms of a contract). Any sense of punishment comes from P'Jane's hurt feelings, not from the contract itself. The contract is simply the only tool he knows to keep someone he loves from walking away again.

So here is where I stand: I don't think power is P'Jane's main motivation. Control is certainly part of his behavior, but I don't think he seeks control for its own sake. Instead, control becomes his way of holding onto people or things he genuinely cares about.

Concerning the staircase scene: in the side story of episode 4 (on Youtube), P'Jane confirms the way he acted was out of anger and jealousy because he couldn't stand seeing Little Jane with P'Dan. When Little Jane asks "Is it fun for you?", P'Jane stops, visibly angry, eyes wet, and snaps back "Do you think this is fun for me?" In the side story, we learn that P'Jane regretted losing his temper like that and felt bad for hurting Little Jane again, adding that he has never felt this way with anyone before.

That doesn't sound like someone trying to control another person. It sounds like someone who lost control because of jealousy and regretted it afterward. He recognized he had hurt Little Jane again (in the side story) and his guilt points to that, not to a frustration over a failed attempt to assert control.

That also explains P'Jane's obsessiveness and possessiveness toward Little Jane better than the idea that his main motivation is power.

P'Jane fell for Little Jane precisely because Little Jane wasn't under his control. He wasn't afraid of P'Jane, and he didn't want anything from him. Those were the things that initially drew P'Jane in. So, if P'Jane's main motivation were simply to control people, why would he become obsessed with the one person he couldn't easily control when he already had countless others who feared him and wanted something from him?

I think what changed is that once they fell in love and later broke up, P'Jane fell back on the only way he knows to keep someone close: control. His instinct is to rely on the certainty the contract provides because that's the only relationship model he knows.

I say that based on what we've seen from episode 1 through episode 4.

So, again, I don't think P'Jane wants control/power for its own sake, or even specifically over Little Jane. I think that once he fell in love, control became the only way he knew how to express that attachment and keep Little Jane from leaving.

To me, that's more tragic than the idea that his main motivation is control/power. He falls for the one person who isn't afraid of him and doesn't give in to him. But once he's afraid of losing that person, he falls back on the same controlling behavior that risks pushing Little Jane away.

It's less "P'Jane wants power/control" and more "P'Jane wants love, but control is the only way he knows how to hold onto it."

"If I were Jane, I would have let them beat him up some more": honestly, would you though?

In real life, how many people would actually stand by and let their own little brother, their own family, get beaten, unless they flat out hated them and wanted them gone? That's not really a realistic stance, that's just something that sounds tough to type out from behind a screen.

Little Jane isn't the type to watch someone in trouble and do nothing, let alone his own little brother. We've seen it multiple times.

As for your "Little Jane has no backbone" take: he literally punched his own friend during an argument, he stepped in to help the girl being abused by her ex boyfriend while everybody else was just standing there watching, he called out P'Dan after the uncomfortable situation at the gallery exhibition, Genuinely, if that is not having a backbone to you, then what is?

If P'Jane suddenly used a completely different way to win Little Jane back, THAT would actually be bad writing. The contract isn't just a plot device, it's literally the only way P'Jane has ever dealt with people. Expecting him to abandon that approach for Little Jane means expecting him to suddenly know how to be open and vulnerable, even though the story has never shown that's who he is.

That's why the contract makes sense. It's not a plot choice, it's a natural reflection of P'Jane's character.

And honestly, if they just fell back in love without any struggle, there wouldn't be much of a story. Wanting to skip the drama and get straight to the sweet moments is completely understandable, but it isn't better writing. It's just avoiding the conflict that makes the story worth watching in the first place.

I'd push back on that a little.

Saying "there's no need to make a contract" only makes sense if you expect P'Jane to give people what they want... for free. Then my question will be: why would he? People come to him asking for favors, he isn't forcing anyone to ask. If someone wants something he can provide, why should he give it to them without getting anything in return?

As for the contracts, I don't think they're about power. I mean, P'Jane already has that: power, money, influence. That's exactly why people come to him in the first place, and why he's able to give them what they want.

I'll say, the contracts are simply about P'Jane refusing to give away what he has for free. People come to him because he can offer something no one else can. He agrees to help, but only if they give him something in return (because, again, why would he give it for free?)

That's not someone chasing power. That's someone who already has it and simply isn't willing to give it away for nothing.

Did I hit a nerve so hard you had to publicly announce you're going to sabotage ratings on episodes you haven't even watched? Your reply tells me exactly the type of person you are, and people like you don't annoy me. I despise you, you miserable parasite. But thanks for the confession though, screenshotting that for later. 

Also, love how you went from "He's poorly written" to insults and a meltdown the second I asked you to actually explain yourself. Couldn't answer a single part of my question, huh? Not even one example. Just vibes and name-calling. That tells me everything I needed to know. You never had an argument, you just had feelings and a keyboard. 

And the "I can tell what kind of person you are" line is cute coming from someone who just admitted to being a bitter little troll with nothing better to do than try to annoy strangers over a series.

Anyway, whenever you're ready to actually answer the question instead of throwing a tantrum, I'm right here. Take your time, clearly thinking isn't your strong suit.

Oh and by the way "I'm sure lots of people are with me with this" is totally meaningless. A thousand people agreeing with a stupid take doesn't make it smart, it just means a thousand people are equally stupid. 1000 * 0 is still 0.

You could gather a whole crowd of people just like you, and together you still wouldn't have one working brain cell, let alone a decent argument. People agreeing with you doesn't change the fact that you still haven't answered my question, you just have a bunch of people just as incapable of answering it as you are.

If you understand Little Jane's character, you'll understand why he's the one signing the contract. He will simply never put his brother in that situation.

Genuine question here: what specifically makes him poorly written? Like an actual inconsistency, or a motivation that isn't explained?

Because "He gets on my nerves" sounds more like you just don't like him as a person, which is your personal taste. However, your personal taste is DIFFERENT from bad writing.

Also, what would a better-written Little Jane look like? If you can't answer that, then it's not the writing. Again, it's YOUR personal taste.

Nothing wrong with that, but at least be honest about which one it actually is.

That's exactly it. Calling Little Jane "Boneless and Stupid" doesn't really make sense when you actually pay attention to what he does throughout the story.

The break up happens because, deep down, he's afraid of trusting P'Jane and ending up hurt. Sure, I wish he had asked P'Jane more clarifying questions, but I don't blame him for making that choice. The rumors, mixed with how mysterious P'Jane is, make the situation really confusing.

Like you said, a truly spineless character wouldn't create half the conflict that moves the story forward. And you're right, a lot of the criticism comes from the same people repeating the same surface-level complaints without paying attention to what's actually happening in the story.

And that's the point that always gets me: it's completely fine not to like a character, that's a personal preference. But saying "I don't like" is very different from saying "he's badly written".

Once you ask people to explain why he's badly written and/or what will be a better way to write Little Jane's character, nobody can give you an answer with concrete examples.

Exactly, thank you! And honestly I think that's what gets missed the most, people treat P'Jane as the "complex" one and Little Jane as some simple, plain side character who is just there to be loved. But Little Jane has his own contradictions too: he wants to trust P'Jane but is scared of being disappointed at the end, he doesn't hesitate to step in to help but he has his own fears and doubts. That IS complexity, it's just more subtle than P'Jane's.

I keep seeing people say Little Jane has no backbone, that he can’t stand up to his friends but somehow manages to stand up to P’Jane. Make it make sense, please. Maybe I’m the crazy one here.

Little Jane had an argument with Put. That argument even led Little Jane punching Put in the face.

Then there’s P’Dan and the situation at the gallery exhibition. Little Jane was uncomfortable and called him out.

If all of that is not standing up for himself, then I genuinely don’t know what it is.

It feels like people are going out their way to misread this character when the evidence is right there on screen.

Same thing with the “bad characterization” argument. It’s said Little Jane isn’t kind or selfless, that he’s doing the bare minimum, that he’s just “ordinary”. But when you actually show evidence of his kindness, not once they can provide a single moment showing the opposite (Little Jane being indifferent or passive). If Little Jane was really just “ordinary”, that moment should exist. But I still haven’t seen the evidence of it.

And then there’s “I don’t understand why P’Jane fell for Little Jane”, even though P’Jane explains it himself. But because people keep judging Little Jane by their own standards instead of P’Jane’s standards, they refuse to acknowledge the reasons actually given.

This happens in real life too: people who can’t understand why someone chooses a specific person when they supposedly have countless “better options”. It’s the same logic here.

Honestly, at this point it feels less like criticism and more like people just don’t like Little Jane’s character. Instead of watching the story and the characters as they are, they watch it with a preconceived idea of what the story and the characters are supposed to be.

And before anyone comes with “the writers decided to make P’Jane like Little Jane” or “it’s just fiction”, I KNOW!!!

But we’re discussing this within the logic of that fictional world, so that’s not a relevant argument, that’s a dodge.

You’re absolutely right about the fact that the world isn’t just black and white. A person can be neither especially kind nor cruel, just “ordinary”.

That’s true in general.

However, whether that applies to Little Jane isn’t something we can just say. It needs evidence too, same as any other claim.

An “ordinary” person has some kind moments and some indifferent moments or maybe even some cruel moments all mixed together. Little Jane doesn’t have that mix. Every time someone needs help, he acts. Not once does he stand by and do nothing when he could help. If he was truly “ordinary”, there should be at least one moment where he ignores someone in need or looks away like everyone else does. But that moment doesn’t exist. So “ordinary” isn’t really supported by the series, it’s just a comfortable way for you to avoid saying he’s kind.

Also, saying we’re “watching different shows” or bringing up the question of my age doesn’t answer any of this.

I’m not asking you to feel what I feel, I’m asking you to point to a specific scene that shows the other side, the indifferent or passive Little Jane. If that scene isn’t there, then the “ordinary” argument doesn’t hold, no matter how many times it gets repeated.

We are going in circles here.

Little Jane’s kindness is consistently shown through out the four episodes and evidence of it were given to you multiple times yet you keep overlooking them and judging Little Jane by a general standard instead.

On the “spooked and tense” argument, whether you want to accept it or not, that’s just not what is being shown on screen.

Being intimidated by someone looks a certain way, and we see that exact demeanor with Put, Ohm, and the guy from episode 3 when they interact with P’Jane. Little Jane never carries that. What you’re reading as tension is actually Little Jane's fear of trusting P'Jane and ending up disappointed, not fear of P'Jane himself.

That's the distinction you're missing or you're literally refusing to acknowledge. Being afraid to trust someone because you might end up disappointed is not the same as being afraid of that person.

And let’s talk about your “half-baked effort with the girl” argument and the fact that it completely ignores what actually happened in the scene.

Little Jane is the one who moves to help while everyone just stands there. He stops when she turns on him, shouts at him. That’s not him giving up on kindness, that’s a realistic human reaction to being attacked by the person you’re trying to help. Then in the next scene, Little Jane is visibly shaken by P’Jane response, not just casually accepting it. Calling all of that “bare minimum” skips over the fact that he was the only one who acted at all.

Also, saying “P’Jane didn’t choose this, the writers did” is technically true but totally irrelevant here.

We are discussing the story as it is written, not deconstructing the writers’ choices. There IS an in-story explanation for why P’Jane falls for Little Jane. The explanation was given to you. Ignoring it and hiding behind “well, the writers decided it” isn’t an argument, it’s a dodge.

And finally: if Little Jane isn’t kind, that makes him cruel. If he’s not selfless, that makes him selfish. If he’s not caring, that’s indifference. If he’s not brave, that’s cowardice.

You’re the one saying he’s none of the positive traits, yet you refuse to call him any of the negative ones. So which is it? You can’t have it both ways. Either the positive traits are there or he’s the opposite of all of them. And in that case, present the evidence of it.

Saying “he’s just ordinary” isn’t a real answer when the entire discussion is about whether these specific traits are present or not.

I'm looking at the episodes ratings and I genuinely believe there's a real effort being made to rate this show lower than it truly deserves. First of all, episode 4 is rated 6.8/10?? I need to know why. Second, episodes 1, 2 and 3 were once all above 9/10, and now we're dropping below 8/10? what happened? And lastly WHO ARE THE IMBECILES RATING EPISODES THAT ARE NOT EVEN OUT YET?? Y'all are annoying for real!!!

That's not really an answer though. If it's about characterization quality and not the traits themselves, then say what better characterization would've looked like here. Because so far every point raised (Ohm, the girl, Little Jane's family, the medicine, the toy) has been dismissed as "not enough" without much explanation of what "enough" would even be.

First of all, being Kind doesn’t mean one should trust everybody or trust easily. Second, being brave doesn’t exclude being scared.

Now, with that being said:

Little Jane has NEVER been afraid of P’Jane. People like Put, Ohm (Little Jane’s teammate at episode 1), or the guy P’Jane meets at episode 3 are visibly scared and intimidated by P’Jane; you can see it in their body language when they interacted with him.

Little Jane never shows that.

But what Little Jane is scared of, however, is trusting P’Jane and ending up disappointed. That’s confirmed in one side story (on YouTube), and it’s the actual core of his hesitation.

With the rumors piling up and P’Jane own mysteriousness on top of that, Little Jane’s doubt actually makes sense. Honestly, I’d probably have reacted the same way in real life and just walked away. My one real criticism is that I wish Little Jane had asked P’Jane directly instead of going along with what everyone else was saying. But that’s a flaw in judgment, not a lack of kindness.

And I think it’s worth remembering Little Jane did try, more than once. He didn’t want to listen to the rumors. He had a fight with his friend Put when he defended P’Jane, he confronted Tee “The Money Embezzler” reminding him that he’s in prison because of his own wrongdoings. Little Jane wasn’t just passively absorbing rumors; he was pulled in different directions while people called him stupid for being easily manipulated by P’Jane and defending him.

As for that girl scene: Little Jane is the one who actually steps in to help her, while everyone else just stands there whispering and filming on their phones. He backs off not because he stops caring, but because the girl turns on him mid-rescue, blaming P’Jane for her situation. That’s what makes Little Jane stop; not indifference, but the accusation.

And in the follow-up scene with P’Jane, Little Jane doesn’t casually accept that the girl “deserves” her beating. If you take into consideration the story that's actually being presented to you and not the one you’re creating in your head, you’ll see that Little Jane looks shaken by P’Jane’s answer. If anything, that reaction is another element that deepens his doubts about P’Jane.

The same instinct shows up consistently:
— Little Jane stepping in to help Ohm, making him stand up and then taking the ball from P’Jane
— Little Jane stepping in to help the girl, totally ignoring the fact that he can be hurt by that violent ex-boyfriend
— Little Jane stepping in to help his whole family, protecting them from the consequence of the little brother’s gambling mess

That’s a pattern of selflessness, not an isolated moment.

On the “medicine and toy aren’t enough” point: that’s measuring the gesture by YOUR standards, not P’JANE’s standards.

P’Jane says it himself: people only ever come to him wanting something, never just giving. That’s exactly why the toy and the care about his migraine meant so much to him. Not because of what they were, but because of what they represented. Little Jane wasn’t trying to win P’Jane over with something impressive; he was showing he genuinely cared, and P’Jane received it as exactly that.

It’s also worth noting P’Jane was already curious about Little Jane way before any of that. From their very first interaction on the field in episode 1, he was intrigued by someone who wasn’t afraid of him. Then when P’Jane tried to make things easy for him (with a deal), Little Jane surprised him again by saying he’d rather try hard and risk disappointment than have things handed to him. That’s what pulled P’Jane in, long before the medicine or the cute toy ever came into it.

And given that this reads as P’Jane first love (based on how he explains the flower meaning during their Valentine’s date), none of this is shallow attachment on his side either.

So if the argument is that Little Jane isn’t kind, brave, selfless, caring, the question I'm asking to you is: what exactly would make him cruel, a coward, selfish, indifferent? Because I don’t see any evidence pointing that way.

I honestly don't understand how one can see all of this and still say Little Jane is not Kind, Brave, Selfless and Caring. They're doing this on purpose at this point, I don't see other explanation. Or maybe we don't have the same definition for these words.

I don't know how they were supposed to show it for you to "feel" it. But it's clearly shown in the series from episode 1 to episode 4. I could give all the examples but I'm afraid the comment will be too long (you can ask them if you want tho). Other than that, this is not about You, Me or the other viewers. This is about P'JANE and how HE feels. Again, for somebody LIKE HIM, the smallest gesture of genuine care can be enough and it was (episodes 1 & 2 show us that). And also, it will be great to see and understand Little Jane in his entirety as a character. Do not have a preconceive idea of how a kind, caring, selfless and brave character is supposed to be and project that into him.