any_anka

I'm actually so happy it was toned down... 😋 I read bits of the novel years ago, and while I don't remember details of the plot much, I do remember some *scenes* and the overall impression they left on me 😱😉
I absolutely love the drama so far!

I think this show was destined to create a lot of hype simply for the fact that its original creator is the same person who was behind Addicted in the past (a show that's quite problematic if we're being honest, but nevertheless considered iconic). Plus it's craaazy entertaining. It's not flawless (I had some issues with editing, especially in the initial few episodes), but the plot doesn't feel like a recycled BL formula, characters are vivid, it has a fair share of unhinged moments lol - what's not to like 😉
And the tension. The t.e.n.s.i.o.n.

I'm down for this show almost as bad as Chi Cheng is down for Wu Suo Wei...

I went into it *not* expecting a BL, I watched it as if I was reading a shounen manga, cause that's the vibe I kept getting from it (until it went deeper and darker).

Plenty of people enjoyed this drama without viewing it via BL lens.

Since we're adding disclaimers, then let me start with one too: I didn't have an issue with you disliking the show nor was I confused about it. I was disagreeing with the notion that this drama is not a BL. Just that :)
Whether it's a BL and whether it's a *good* BL are two different questions :)

As for what you said about the chemistry between the main characters - I respectfully disagree. I think not only their chemistry is decent, I also find it rather effortless. Maybe it's not the sparks-are-flying-everywhere type of chemistry, but it's a really cute, soft, domestic vibe they're giving. You've watched less than three episodes so I don't know if you've seen any of the kisses or flirting moments. Maybe you missed on those.

I think especially the guy playing Da Hei is really natural in the intimate scenes, but both are doing a decent job honestly (they don't look stiff, they don't have like 15 cm distance between their bodies when kissing, it's a very comfortable type of chemistry and translates fantastic onto screen).

Anyway, to your point about BL audiences giving a pass to a series just because it's a BL. Yeah, it happens a lot, I noticed it too. People would consume anything as long as it has two good-looking dudes making out, regardless of how questionable are the story or acting. And if a drama happens to be decent on those fronts, it's treated like Nolan-level of cinematic event ;)
Still, I myself am somewhat guilty of lowering my standards when it comes to BL dramas myself, making excuses due to low budgets or popular tropes, "convention" of the genre and the overall quality of it (and then when I see a one-take long, dynamic scene like an argument in the street in "My Tooth, Your Love" I loose my shit and can't stop fangirling over it 😋 Don't know if you've ever seen it).

Still, I don't think the quality is going downwards as much as you make it out to be. While yes, Taiwan had a streak of bad shows recently and Korea is in a difficult spot because it's not easy to top or compete with Love in the Big City, but a few recent shows I've watched out of Japan were really good (When it rains, it pours; Our Youth; and there was this one show which I forgot the tile of, that told a story of a guy who was a gangster and was terribly abused by the environment as a kid and another guy who got disowned by his family for being gay - it was super heavy, but quite good and deep, too). When it comes to Japanese dramas, I actually think BLs are often way better than regular straight romances (at least most of the ones available on Viki, I'm not talking about shows featuring Japanese A-listers like Yamashita Tomohisa or Sato Takeru - maybe these are better, idk)

The final point I want to address is your observation about actors using BLs as a step in their career, while playing it safe and trying not to appear too gay. Indeed, I know BL shows are in fact often treated as a trampoline to what's considered a "real" acting career and I know some Taiwanese actors successfully "transition" to mainstream (Fandy Fan being a good example). I honestly think it's a good thing an actor can branch out into different genres as opposed to just playing the same thing, sometimes even within the same "ship" like they do in Thailand, but I do think it sucks that BL shows are treated as somewhat lesser in that system. But then again, I think their quality plays a part in it too (and we have a vicious cycle). But I digress.

I don't really think the actors need to worry about looking too gay, at least not in Taiwan. I mean, many mainstream Taiwanese dramas would feature gay/lesbian relationships and actors go all out in those (Let's Talk About Chu being a case in point).

But coming back to Fight For You. I'm personally enjoying it, despite the outlandish undercover agent part of the plot. The relationship development feels natural to me, the actors have cute chemistry, the acting is not bad, and the side characters (like family members) add to the drama, instead of just being screen fillers. But that is just - disclaimer 😋 - my opinion.

Oh, I see. I thought WeTV was more involved with the overall production and promotion, seeing pieces of the drama filmed in China and WeTV logos everywhere, including pillows ;)

As for promotions amount, I don't really watch much Thai BLs and to be honest I don't follow promotions closely anyway. I saw the amount they were getting and it seemed really decent compared to what some Taiwanese shows receive 😋 But I guess the industry standard is completely different.

I think there probably are some people who would rate the series down or write very unfavourable comments and reviews for the reason you mentioned. I've seen which I believed to be similar things happen under shows that garner much attention or have already famous celebrities casted (not talking abt BL, just in general). That's what happens when fan and anti-fan culture enters spaces like MDL, which were originally intended for discussing and sharing opinions about a show.

On the other hand, again, not everyone who writes a negative comment is a hater per se. I myself have some criticisms towards this series (which I personally find valid - but of course I would, since they're mine lol), but I'm nowhere near hating it.

Ok, so I can understand when people complain about The On1y One or Heesu in Class 2 not being BL, being censored, straight-washed etc. I don't necessarily share the same opinion, but I can see where it's coming from. However, here you lost me.
I mean, yeah, the drama kind of dropped the ball when portraying the ML's relationship once they got together. So far we saw them kiss before they got together, in their fantasies, in flashbacks after the break-up fight and even during the break-up fight. So, there are indeed some weird choices there... but still - there was an obvious attraction on both sides, actual kissing scenes (not fish-kisses, not dare-kisses) and legit confessions.
You might dislike the drama, it's your right to do so - I wouldn't call it a masterpiece myself, but going as far as calling it non-BL is kinda difficult to understand to me.
What are the prerequisites for a show to be considered a BL then?
Also, what is even straight-passing?

Genuinely one of the best things I've watched. Also, probably the best acting I've seen in a kdrama.

I actually had no problem with it being slow, or there being misunderstandings, or characters communicating poorly. My biggest issue was Do Ba Woo's treatment of Ji Hoon throughout the entire series. He was like the main character of main characters: all about me, me, me. My unrequited crush, my broken heart and my pride. Not even once considering he was hurting his supposedly best friend/crush in the process.

Well... I'm not sure what do you mean by "the same feel", but...
If it's a story with a strong homoerotic subtext without a directly stated relationship or romance then maybe series like The On1y One or Killer and Healer can be your cup of tea.
If you want a gay romance with an artistic twist to its cinematography then a Korean series The Eight Sense might be something you'd enjoy.
And if you're looking for the overall kinda "magical realism" vibe coupled with a love story (doesn't matter gay or straight) then an anime movie Your Name (Kimi no Na wa) is the one that comes to my mind (it actually is quite similar in a lot of aspects).

If a series blows up and gains popularity it's only natural that there'd be more people curious about it and amongst them there will be people who might not like it. That's one thing.
Another thing is those people have the right to voice their opinions just as those who think Top Form is the best series in the history of universe... I've seen both types in here (people who are surprised by the rating because they think it's too high and those who think it's still too low). Criticising does not automatically equal hating... (provided the critique pertains to the quality of work, acting skills etc. and don't go into personal attacks on actors etc. and if it's a well-articulated critique it's fun to read it, regardless of your own stance - at least for me)

P.S. I don't think Top Form suffers from lack of promotions. Don't they have like weekly reactions to episodes, actors doing live streams, interviews etc.?

P.S. 2 I see people repeating it's a small company drama or out-of-nowhere drama. But WeTV is literally Tencent aka a global conglomerate... How is that a small company? ;) (I'm asking genuinely, not nitpicking or anything).

What happened to this drama? It says it aired last November already but there's no rating available... Has anyone watched it?

Is there even any way to watch it outside of Taiwan *and* with English subtitles?

I think the drama tried to sort of make things appear more believable by saying that Dou Ke Yi's organization is difficult to infiltrate, they're suspicious of newcomers who appear out of nowhere, the police failed multiple times before etc. Thus, I guess, their new approach was to send a lackey (cause Xiao Bai doesn't seem like a very experienced "agent" to a lackey).

And didn't Da Hei know and worked for Dou Ke Yi's before already? Wasn't his job the reason he moved out to live alone (so that his grandma wouldn't see the bruises he gets from his job)? I don't really remember which one came first (I mean, I know the drama started with XB and DH move in together, but the narration could be non-linear here), because tbh this whole agent-undercover-thingy is super flawed to me, I try not to pay much attention to the details or I wouldn't be able to watch 😋(And I like the chemistry between the leads, I find their motivations/conflicts etc. quite believable, so I *need* to ignore the part that makes no sense 😉)

I agree with the point about development of a relationship. We didn't really see much of them hold hands, embrace while sitting on a couch or kiss (and I'm not demanding some make-out scene, even a smooch would make things feel more well... relationshipy). They kissed way more when it was just inside XB's imagination 😋
I feel like just inserting some elements of such everyday life intimacy would do wonders. The scene when they lie down in their beds after a fight in two separate rooms would've felt more impactful if they actually shared a bed before (and once again, I don't mean an NC scene necessarily, but just them cuddling on one's bed).

I know it's a BL, but I really love Da Hei's interactions with his family. That scene at the hospital where both him and his sister cried? It was just so well done and actually pretty well-acted. I didn't expect this level of emotional rawness from this cute silly series.

Also, this is a random comment, but the actress playing Da Hei's sister - did she ever play in any "straight" drama? I keep seeing her as a side character in different BLs :) She was Birdy's girlfriend in Your Name Engraved Herein and was also there in The On1y One.
Not complaining, just wondering ;)

For younger ppl who tuned into kdramas in the recent 5 years or kpop fans who might be familiar only with the 4th gen (and don't they already have a 5th one at the moment? I'm not much in the loop nowadays 😋) it's not so surprising not to know a 2nd gen group, needless to say all its members (other than maybe Taeyeon)

Just watched the first two episodes and was reminded once again why Japanese BLs are just the absolute top for me.

After being really impressed with it initially, I'm starting to have more and more mixed feelings. Now, don't get me wrong, the actors are still delivering, Boom is a fantastic crier and Smart is actually exceeding my original expectations I've had of him based on the first episode BUT there are more and more elements I find hard to reconcile.

Firstly, the whole Johnny plot. I don't think it was mishandled 100%. In fact, I think Akin's emotions, his confusion, his misplaced feeling of guilt and shame etc. were portrayed really, really well. I even don't mind the fact that there was no legal repercussions. I can totally see Jin feeling that having the guy "under control" with the recording he made is better than creating a scandal that could potentially backfire and hurt Akin in the process (whether it's right or wrong is a different case entirely). I can even accept the guy getting a redemption arc (after all, it's a fictional story and frankly, some of my favourite characters in fiction are actual villain types who got to redeem themselves).

However, the thing about Top Form is that there is NO redemption arc. Johnny does nothing to atone for what he did, he gets pretty much no punishment, no judgment, no repercussions, even no scenes showing he feels guilty, he regrets what he did, he wants to be a changed man or whatever... Come episode 7 and he already shifts into a... comic relief character 😑We have Johnny as this cute guy eavesdropping on our lovebirds. Or Johnny as the one who needs to go around sell merch... And I really gotta ask: what??!! I needed the drama to give me something more, cause at this moment, the only comedy relief scene I can accept involving Johnny is a slapstick one with him falling off the stairs.

There was a potential there to make him a more sympathetic character. He clearly has harsh experiences in the industry and possibly a twisted view of sex-related encounters. This could've been explored and used to make the audience feel to some extend sorry for him. Or even don't go there, just show us he is truly regretful, he had an epiphany about his life, he saw how much his actions traumatised Akin and how much damage he can cause to others and decided to not be that person. Almost anything would be better than the nothing we got. Or rather, there was this one short instance when Johnny mentions he is serious about acting and remembering his lines (maybe under Akin's influence) but is that really enough?! With the total lack of giving Johnny's character any more depth after the assault incident, Johnny becoming almost part of the gang, participating in cheerful moments on screen and getting praise for improving from Akin was all too soon for my liking.

Ok, that was one big issue. Now, another one I have is editing. I don't know what's happening, but I didn't have a problem with drama's editing in the first couple of episodes. I think ep 6 (or maybe even ep 5) was already weirdly edited, but the great acting and me being into the story allowed me to overlook it. However, I'm starting to get bugged by it. I can't put my finger exactly on what's the issue, but there's this feeling of interrupted flow between scenes, they feel disjointed. And sometimes it happens between two scenes taking place one right after the other. One example I can think of is the sequence of scenes when Jin takes Akin to the bathroom and put his necklace back on Akin's neck. The transition between those scenes was kinda abrupt. And that's editing alone, camera work is another thing. I sometimes truly don't understand director's or production's choices as to when to zoom out, when to zoom in on a characters face, when to focus on small details etc. One scene is fine, but there are more of such instances and they kinda affect my viewer experience.

This is both a shame and genuinely confusing, because at the same time Top Form has some scenes that are just genuinely beautiful. For example the initial scenes of ep 7, when Akin apologises to Jin while performing a play on stage. Here - on the contrary - the editing was great. Then there was this one more scene when the drama kinda put together moments of Jin hugging Akin - there editing was perfect. So I am not really sure what is happening 😋And that's just episode 7. Camera work/editing/directing prior to the honey scene were so good. Or that moment when Akin gets back to his room after his "night with Johnny" and tries to process what just happened (the camera right in his face, the fast cutting between takes - so nice, really).

Basically, before I called Top Form a perfect blend between a mainstream BL and a more deep drama. Now I feel like I am watching two different works altogether 😋 On the one hand, we have really good acting and some raw portrayals of complex emotions and moments of really good cinematography; on the other we have underdeveloped plots, simplified issues and weird editing.

Seriously, him being just so open, positive, confident and chill about it (but not to the point of being pushy or weirdly forceful) is super refreshing and quite charming, ngl.

This exact thing.
And it's not just the chemistry between the two main characters either (even though it's great), but also the side characters, the family plot, the interactions with grandma and Da Hai's sister in the most recent episode.
Yeah, sure, there's this undercover thing that makes very little sense on multiple levels, but everything else has been sooo enjoyable.