bokminthe

Thank you very much for your comment and I'm glad my review highlighted for you the things you might have noticed that were amiss with this show as someone that has not read the manga.

I read you and I think it's interesting everything you say and how you explain it but I still feel that it's too much to dig into the plot to try and make parallelisms with TEE. Not saying they might not be there, I just think it wasn't the best to illustrate for starters because the topics of both are not really related and also because again, unless you read way too much into it, you won't see the timeline parallelisms. There are way too many dramas out there that have time jumps to show certain stories and there are a lot of dramas with social commentary. As I mentioned before I get it but the execution for me it's still not there, there are many things in each of the stages that could have been shown in a better way to hint more at it.
You said "The purpose of the sci-fi genre is to use futuristic elements to speak on present day issues", and I totally agree, and it's what it's on essence, problem is this novel is not modern by any means, and while there are elements in many sci-fi that can be applied to modern times, take for example older Star Trek episodes with very relevant messages to nowadays, the reality is that they're still a product of its time. As I said TEE is not exactly an example of how to portray women characters for starters, and the fact that it's taken as a reference for this one so to speak, well, it doesn't exactly make me feel better about it. I didn't find the characters in Hidden Love any more likeable in fact and they're mostly very superficial for me. I find there are many social commentaries in asian dramas, maybe you mainly watch cdramas? Take for example Search:WWW, Run On, Because This Is My First Life, Nobody Knows, Little Forest, Parasite or even Record of Youth. They all have social commentaries at some point or another. I would say it's quite common to mention realities to highlight them as a critique in asian dramas.
I get by what you're saying that basically they wanted to use TEE to follow and make a paralellism there, it's what they chose creatively to do, personally it simply doesn't wow me though and I still think that deviating from it in this case to show things in a different manner would have shown and highlighted more the issue presented here. Still done with grace and in line with filters but better nonetheless.
I didn't remember the age gap in TEE, but either way, the point there is also that even though she's seen as childish and in lack of knowledge she turns to be the opposite at the end, this doesn't happen in the drama though. FL was immature and childish from start to finish, she improves slightly but at no point she surpasses him in any way.
You mention if they had been the same age then it would have been considered them exploring their sexuality, so can you give me a cdrama that does this? The other one I watched they were the same age and it was still presented as a no-no when it comes to physical intimacy, so I'm curious to know if that is something that would be shown in a cdrama anyway.
Thanks to you though I do understand the period scene now, because not going to lie I thought it was extremely weird at the time, I thought it was presented as her first time having the period, but she was way too late to be getting her period at 17 and it was very jarring. In fact, wouldn't have been more shocking and proving of the age of consent problem if that scene had occurred when she was 14?
I still don't remember any point in where she made of him a brother, those around her did, but not her. She was already romantically interested in him from the beginning. He is the one that made a sister of her. So since you keep repeating it, can you tell me at what point it's shown as her thinking of him as a brother without the influence of those around her?
To me the writers are not asking questions and letting the people answer, they're presented with a situation and immediately follows with the answer they have decided, so when you say "Thus why she continues to act and talk like a child because she is, yet she is old enough to consent to sex. So the question is at this age is she a woman or child? Is she ready for sex or not?" The drama answered to this by continuing to portray her as a child and not having sex, so it didn't make me ponder on an answer, it didn't make me ask myself if it was morally correct or not, it already gave me the answer they considered appropriate, one which I might not even agree with nor might be realistic to what happens in real life. So is this a presentation on morals and ethics? Pretty much.
You also said "In reality, this must be what happened to your friend. The male must have been at least 22 or of marriageable age, and because your friend was 16 she falls under the age of consent." but not necessarily, if you investigate a bit you'll see that in rural areas they "marry" young people without the need for one of them (obviously chances are is the man) to be older of marriageable age. Not so long ago I saw an article of a couple of both 16 year olds that had "married" and had a child.
You also said "People can find a way to get around the law if it means it will make their lives better even at the expense of one. This is the cost of having the age of consent at 14." Precisely this is why changing the law won't change anything if the mentality and education of people is not changed. The consent and marriage laws in my country were low until some years ago, but in practice no one used that law and if a case raised it was met with extreme backlash (I can maybe remember one). So although it's great to change the law so there is protection against crimes, the reality is that unless the people are changed, changing the law doesn't eradicate the problem. When the law was changed in my country no one cared at all, because no one consented to sex at 13 or got married at 14 before the law change, it was absurd. Even if the law is changed in China the underage marriages will keep happening. Again, great for crimes and whatnot but doesn't actually solve the issue, especially when what's used to illustrate it it's some posh family in a city, it's very tone deaf to the reality of the majority of the population and very reductionist when it comes to thinking that only the age is a problem, that it's not a cultural, educational and money problem. Most of the teenage marriages in rural areas are between families trying to get advantageous marriages and get out of poverty.
What brings me to what I've already mentioned before and expanding it even more, even though it's a curious concept, it comes across as some study by some intellectual that while has the right intentions, wanted to be creative on a personal project and because they did it with the knowledge they didn't stop and think how most people would view it.
By the way, even though the age of consent and marriage is now 16 in my country, studies show that most teens having their first sexual experiences are at 13 and 14. Most people would see someone marrying at 16 completely stupid, yet it's legal. And this is the average at least for many western countries. It's always debatable if it's right or wrong. It's debatable if 18 years old should be able to marry, or 25 year olds. The older you get, the more inexperienced and immature younger people seem to you, especially when you see the mistakes you made and those of people around you when you all were those ages. And I'm putting the crime and all that to the side here and going more to the simpleness of it because that's what the drama did, crime is not involved, or abuse, or anything of the sorts that would actually be so much more real to the problems of the age of consent.
I still can't see dramas changing anything in terms of how people see this, but I can clearly see you're set in your believe that it will, it's a nice thought but I don't personally believe it.

You said "This is the scenario you wanted to start with. " As a piece of entertainment media? Yes, it was more entertaining from that point onward, not great, just better. Now after knowing all this, well, it just simply doesn't change my mind at all if anything it makes me even question more how successful this is at the real message it wants to convey, and I generally don't think of it favorably, not even in the fact of taking a book with interesting concepts as TEE to reduce it to the age of consent. If that was my book I would be thinking, so what, you couldn't come up with your own narrative to explain it that you have to borrow from mine?
I might read the book again for sure at some point but I'm afraid I won't be rewatching this, it was a very annoying watch and if I want to read about the age in consent in China I can do just that. I still think it's a youth educational drama because of what I already said in my previous comment, it's not just the love part.

I can see you're very invested on this cdrama and I'm glad you liked it and got extra enjoyment of it, personally I don't think you'll be able to change my mind though but I do appreciated the insights about the age of consent in China.

The End of Eternity is not a book about the age of consent and the marriage laws in China, it's a book about time travel and a question to what path humanity could or should take as well as the dangers of humans playing to be god. The love part of the book is quite sexist as expected since Asimov didn't know how to write women really and the main love theme is that of it being forbidden because he's an Eternal (part of a technocracy). She changes his mind, and manage to stay together. Love is not really the main story there, it's more just the means to move the story along and put out the classic question of choosing an individual or a greater moral choice, but I guess it could be read as enduring love, despite the time changes in space and time they manage to remain together. Maybe this drama was going in those lines, or how it's forbidden because of the age difference but she changes his mind, drawing parallelisms with the book in that sense. There is no part in the book that talks about the age of consent, I mean, Asimov was not chinese obviously and the book is too old and sci-fi to be talking about current affairs. When I saw it in the drama I just assumed it was put there just so the character would look cool and intellectual, not much else. I kind of doubt is even a protest to the fact most sci-fi is banned in China really.
Some people has drawn ideas and parallelisms of the technocracy presented in the book and communism and I don't know what are the ideas in China about this or if those against the Chinese government use it as a symbol, BUT it's most likely not true just by the simple fact that although there is no proof that Asimov was a communist, he was certainly not a conservative capitalist. Many people consider him to be somewhere in the socialist spectrum and this can be seen in some of his writing and ideals, for example in the series of Foundation. Some consider The End of Eternity to be somewhat of a prequel to it but the opinion is quite divided on this.
And no no, you haven't offended me in any way. It's not so much sensitive as it's just life. I do have an interest in history and politics as well as staying informed of things, and I'm also a reader/watcher of science fiction.
It's true you have to start somewhere, but as it happens when you plant something, just planting a seed but never watering it won't make it grow, or it might grow wrong and then it's too late to change. Take for example laws that have been implemented in countries in their times of transition between dictatorships and democracies, the first laws were better than nothing and they had to start somewhere, but then they have never been updated since or have evolved in some other type of oppression. There is starting somewhere with a good soil and base that will grow good seeds, and there is just putting the seeds in pavement and hoping they grow in the same way. But that's obviously my opinion of course.

You're correct that TV might be the most efficient way of getting out messages in areas where people might not be able to read, problem is that most people probably don't own a TV either. Usually the only way to cause a change in those areas is going to be more the local action and the word of mouth. But overall, education is key. Local intervention helps spread the word about issues to create a change in smaller and larger scale. Can this be done in China? kind of doubt it. And ignorance is power to those in control everywhere anyway.
I haven't seen the other dramas you mention so I can't comment, not going to lie after this one and the other one I watched that was similar I've kind of given up on cdramas in general.
I'm not sure I would want dramas to have the power to change nations, what if the model is promoting something morally wrong that goes against human rights for example? It's a lot to ask of a piece of media. It's good enough if it makes people think and then they learn and investigate more and then do something about it, but would that be enough to change the laws and behaviours of a nation? I feel probably not. Behaviours yes to a certain extent, but this is due mostly to a change in education and the passing of generations. Laws is another matter altogether and unless there is unified proactive action for a change they rarely do, especially in places where the population has little ability to do so.
Can you give any example of what has Hollywood changed socially speaking?
In which way does The End of Eternity show change in small doses? It's been a while but as far as I remember they just get rid of Eternity. So basically they get rid of the "god power" that was the controlling Eternity to allow untampered timelines and futures.
In modern times a show that draws certain parallelisms with this novel, although in a watered way when it comes to the science, is Loki.

I never heard from her again I'm afraid. Not even her siblings knew much about her as she was living in a rural area without much communication. Later I finished school and I didn't keep in touch with her siblings since we were not really friends.

How is that related? I thought you were talking about the characters, in which case as user Ivy pointed out as well, it's the opposite. If you meant the actors then it makes no sense, the age gap of the actors didn't get bigger since they had the same age gap when they recorded the show than they had and will have forever. What!!? hahaha

Actually the opposite, they had around a 5 year age gap before and now they're around the same age.

Independently of the fact that the legal ages should change, the marriage law is only a problem in those cases where marriage is "needed" because the law blocks the rights of the people in other ways, for example the fact a child born of unwed parents is illegal. So then the problem is not marriage and at the same time all problems are marriage, by forcing people to be married to access many rights that should be there in the first place, ergo, asking for the age of marriage to be lower doesn't solve the problem, it only puts a plaster on it. Doesn't tackle either the amount of non-registered marriages that happen before that age in many places in China or the forced marriages. For example, I had a friend in secondary school whose parents got her out of school and sent to China to be married against her will at the age of 16.
This drama, if anything, only shows very timidly the top of the iceberg. Of course they also tackle everything from the lenses of middle class, so most of the population won't feel represented to even give it two thoughts.
It's going to be difficult for me to see it in any other way as someone that is against marriage, in the sense that it shouldn't be compulsory in order to access certain rights or to prove that you have a partner. Marriage is a paper that gives you certain powers, nothing more. So at what age you're allowed to sign that paper wouldn't matter much if you had access to the same rights with or without it. The issue isn't for example if my parents are married or not, the issue is one of them not being able to access pension if the other passes away simply for not being married despite being together for more than 25 years. So what about civil partnerships? I think they're not a thing in China, so you're forced to be married. We can't talk about the freedom to marry without talking about the freedom to not marry.

The morality of this drama is not something out of the world either, and I say this because of the way you're saying it. Couples with a big age difference or those that happened in sketchy ages are pretty much present in all the world (and I know a few myself as well). This is too timid of an attempt to make a scratch at any level, won't change the minds of those that don't already agree with it also because unless they already know about those Easter eggs they won't see them. So you're left with a story that is not engaging, entertaining or has very likeable characters and on top the actual meaning is hidden and only tackles one single problem in a very reductionist way (aka change the ages).
I didn't think it was simply a love story either, if anything not only is an unhealthy love story but also as I mentioned in my review it's like I'm watching a video on morality and manners on how things need to be done and when, and when I said this I didn't mean only the love part of it, in fact I meant more the rest of it.
The other drama I mentioned on my review has characters in the same age and it's still equally annoying in their portrayal of morality and stages. The age gap is not the problem here. I understand it serves a purpose but it doesn't change the fact that the whole drama is very staged and "perfect" in terms of timings and settings.
At 14 they wouldn't have had a sexual relationship because he was not even interested in her, at 17 they could have, and it was actually pretty unrealistic they didn't considering by that age many do, as it was the reaction to her fake internet boyfriend. So here they didn't tackle the fact she could be both sexually active and also had a boyfriend (no, you don't need to marry to have a boyfriend I think). How is her waiting to have sex related to the age of marriage at that point? or is it just a lesson on how ideally you should wait until you're an adult to have sex? Is it morally correct to have sex at 17? that will depend on the person, but I don't want a show to tell me very on the face when they think it's correct and if the audience doesn't know this is not a story they're watching but an idea, then it will feel like indoctrination. Also they already knew each other at that point, so waiting to have a relationship serves no purpose other than letting me know how it's done. I'm not presented with life and flawed characters that might not take the best course of action, here they're top A students that do everything by the perfect book. Also she had a crush on him from the start, so she didn't think of him like a brother, more like those around her tried to make her think of him as a brother. The one that thought and repeated at nauseam that she felt like a sister was him, even when showing those moments of him having a bit of interest in her what made the whole thing very awkward to watch. Had they dropped the sister thing earlier it wouldn't have been as bad and the whole sister thing didn't add anything to the idea of the marriage law anyway, unless they were also telling me that fancying and marrying someone in your closer circle is better than some stranger from far away.
As I said previously I get the intention, but the execution is still amiss. It's like Matrix Resurrections, I get the meaning of the film and why it was done after reading about the reason why it exists and the easter eggs, but as a piece of media it doesn't make it any more entertaining or good and I'm not shocked by the original intention either. Here it's the same.
We could also start debating on the fact that by the message being so subdued you have most viewers taking it as face value, liking the type of relationship portrayed here and basically how the real message is ignored in favour of how things are shown, and how it could be argued that it ends up having the opposite effect than intended and many people will say that the marriage law is great as it is as illustrated by this drama, otherwise they would have married younger and she wouldn't have finished her studies perhaps.

I keep asking myself this. All of them are so convinced by the mother's dream that no one is questioning anything. I'm pretty sure all members of the family know the basics of his power so I don't get it. Considering the writing in the whole drama is generally good I don't want to think it's just bad writing, but I'm hoping they explain it somehow. The mother's dreams have never fully appeared in detail to us as spectators so it's not like we can analyze what she saw and deem it ambiguous or something, but I just keep thinking her interpretation might be wrong or she doesn't get the whole picture and only the "end" result of a situation, what might not be the actual ending in all cases, even if it might be in most of them.

I'm just hoping that whenever they show why Do Da Hae is the "chosen one" that it's not super predictable or anticlimactic. Or worst even, if they just don't even tackle it. We'll see...

That's very interesting! But the question would be in which way does this series criticise or makes the spectators think about that, the question you make at the end is answered in the show if we take what happens as the answer to that, it didn't ask a question and left it open, it told us when and with whom and it was presented as a very matter of fact. Also correct me if I'm wrong because it's been a while I watched this series but I don't remember her consenting to anything until much later than 14 years old. I don't deny they might have had that idea in the background but I don't feel the average person, even in China, would get the point across other than seeing that book as an Easter egg, then maybe checking it out and then thinking about it. I know things have to be done in a very second-hand roundabout way to pass the filter but I feel maybe they could have gotten a bit closer to it if that was the intention of the whole series.
Maybe it's because I watched another cdrama that was very close in terms of everything being very staged in the life of the characters, when they can or not do things. Maybe that's also criticising the process itself, but it's so mild that unless you know you wouldn't see it there at all.
It's very interesting nonetheless and does make me think about the show in a slightly different way so thank you very much for bringing it up!!! But as entertainment and as a show in itself, I generally still feel the same way about it than originally. And if their intention was for the show to be criticised and make the spectators think about how wrong it is then I guess they succeeded with me in that sense.

Thanks!

It might not be wrong to you. As I said "not surprised" since what you are saying I do already know (let's stop assuming people don't know things and explaining them unless the person in question asks, thanks) but it doesn't make it any better nor it means it shouldn't change. Also better for everyone? Almost like you're implying the weight of other people is of concern to everyone else, it's public domain or something.
Either way, my comment was not even for that independently of the fact I do not agree, it was about the fact that someone would only look pretty if they're thin. Even though it's a body suit and fake she still looks pretty with the weight on in my opinion. And beauty is subjective, like it's mostly everything else for that matter, including your opinion about obese people. The person that did the original comment should have kept their thoughts to themselves and be a decent human being especially in a professional setting.

Totally agree. It's not surprising for a korean drama but still equally embarrassing to see. I'm waiting for the moment we're told how much prettier she's when skinny.

'I don't know who she is, but she would look pretty if she lost weight.' No comments... not surprised but still embarrassing to read.

Don't worry, when the kid appears with FL's character his face is barely shown. Considering they did that in the ending it feels they should have shown or put a bit more emphasis on the fact it was the same kid...It was easily missed and it's rare I didn't haha

"Sorry to say this" then don't say it? It's not like he's going to read your comment here, and the superficiality of your thoughts about someone else's weight doesn't look good on you either.

For me it's very mid so far. It could be worse but I'm not throwing fireworks either. We'll see how it goes. It does have a bit too juvenile humour for my liking at some points and ML character's "problem" and facial expressions could get old quickly if it continuous all throughout the show in the same manner than in these two episodes.

I thought it was just because he's the same kid that appears with the FL character. We still don't know if the kid is hers or not, but it's the same one. I thought it was just a foreshadow in the sense of it not being a "coincidence" they met there. Something in those lines.

I totally agree with you. Although maybe it's not the weakest or most unrealistic plot I've watched but it's certainly bad. The premise of the show is good, but the execution was a big miss and the FL made things so much worse.
I can't believe someone like her could survive society in any capacity, even less being in a position of leadership like shown here. She was seriously frustrating to watch.
I kept asking myself why the ML would like her really.

Totally agree!
The plot was so weak in general and especially when it comes to the book and her powers. They built it up for absolutely no reason. They didn't know what to do with it in the end and just put it to the side. It was so disappointing.

You're completely right, I guess I was more thinking in the lines of her having done settings that are not modern, so I would think at least she has some experience, even if it's not exactly the same genre. Plus she had the direction and general team to work with, so overall I guess I don't fully understand how the difference in her acting can be this abysmal and this drama also had its anachronisms and dose of unrealisticness even if not as much as Rookie Historian.