brunhilda

I do love that the main characters are not perfect and that their flaws are consistent (his ego in case of ML), I do... at the same time I want to kick the ML repeatedly in the shin a pray he steps on lego at least once a day. It´s far from the worst dramas can offer but there is still too much "you know you want it" attitude. Not respecting others and their wishes is not endearing or charming. I do enjoy, however, that his most unpleasant decisions always stem from smbd wounding his fragile ego.

I hope there will be severe consequences of his decision in ep 20 and he gets chewed for it properly. Please, dear writers, no golden shield of a hero...

They are saying cast and dress according to our ideological views and needs, not demanding a realistic portrayal of human body.

"excessive makeup, costumes and props" can be applied to idol dramas, but in the same vein can be used against anything experimental or individual or subjective.

"core values of truth, goodness, and beauty" often means a black and white characters where the good guys have to be pretty and the bad guys ugly (possibly with some form of racial or ethnic flavour). And again can be aimed at any artistic expression that moves from ideological and schematic and and easy to consume & pass censorship stuff.

"take root among the people" and "the beauty of simplicity, the beauty of nature, and the beauty of meaningful content" are setting my teeth on edge and i dont think even chatgpt could produce an emptier phrase as these.

As from Xi Jinping Thought on Culture ... well, this monstrosity is a communist propaganda doctrine with all that entails. Set of rules and practices to control the public opinion, the history and the culture so it fits the official communist narrative.

I am not demanding from chinese dramaland high artistic value or to move beyond the limits of censorship . Just please, as viewers, let´s bear in mind that those shows are produced by a communist totalitarian regime that cares about many things, but not artistic quality.

I do enjoy the show but, oh my, the FL is not the sharpest tool in the shed. To be more specific, she seems to have trouble with reading situation and planning on the spot - how many times has she almost died or the investigation failed/got obstructed because she couldnt anticipate a rather obvious problem... I kinda appreciate it, that both the main characters have their strengths and weaknesses but occasionally it smells too much like plot convenience and needless upping of drama.

romantic tropes as assaults or at least crossing of boundaries - the Sui brothers in all their deranged glory. ML and his jealous fits. ML not taking a no for an answer repeatedly, never reflecting he was out of line (the kiss scene before he left to be a general again).

Gaslighting - not fessing up his identity to FL, not telling her about her parents (At first I get it, reasonable, but then he asks her to wait for him and pines and whines and is all possessive and still doesn't say a thing and apparently even plays some ridiculous charade even after they meet again on the battlefield? I am happy to see a flawed ML, kudos for that, truly (they are possible explanation for this behaviour from ML) - but i would like to know if the show will keep portraying such behaviour towards FL as wrong, will force him to admit his fault and do better (or there will be narrative punishment - such as true trouble caused by not saying a thing, or she not willing to forgive him, be with him unless he changes his ways etc.)

Or if they will go the easy road - love conquers all and she forgives him immediately or (worst case scenario) will present all the lying and possessivness he is displaying as something funny, cute and romantic, a proof of how much he loves FL. Given the fact he behaves similarly - just usually less unhinged - as the DV & rapy Sui prince, I hope the creators are intentionally playing with these tropes, subverting and criticising them.
However, just to be on the safe side... I want to ask.

I do enjoy that so many of the ML romantic tropes are given to the bad guys and shown in their SA glory, even ML. But i sometimes worry about where it´s headed.
So, a quick question - will the ML be called out, ideally even punished for all that idiotic gaslighting of FL and his ridiculous and utterly misplaced bouts of jealousy (novel or show) or does the show play it just for laughs and "thrill"/romance. (currently at ep 20)
Thank you.

Sheng Yi is my dearest character of this show. Her story was so well handled and not just by c-drama standards.
The show takes time to sketch the nuances of her life, of all the forces and ppl that shaped her into who she was, as well as how common her story was. She is never vilified for her actions, even if it unwittingly led to trouble for FL, it´s always clear she is a victim. It takes time to explain why it was impossible for her to end up any differently, to not be so beaten down and broken, why she just couldnt start anew on her own. Her monologue about self-hatred was... heartbreaking(ly familiar). Her timidness, her insecurities, her choices and reactions through the whole show... she was such a wonderful character! And, which is truly a cherry on top, with the monologue after her death, when FL writes her story, it show the Qs the writers had to ask themselves. To give SY a happy ending would be... inspirational, perhaps, and there is need for that, but by showing the harsh reality of her life and ending it in her death, they did justice to the struggle it is to deal with not only domestic abuse but with being a underprivileged woman (in a patriarchal society).
Kudos for the writers and the actress for bringing Sheng Yi to life, truly.

I love to hate Liu Chang - his spoiled brat aura, his delusions, his habit of fancying only women who are unattainable or at least not present (yeah, we get it, it ruins the fantasy when the woman is there - you know, she talks and breathes and has opinions and personality and all the other nasty things). I love how he is a parody of a certain type of ML in dramas as well as being the stereotypical SML as well as being a mirror to very nasty masculine traits & behaviours, and something very human in general (such as inability/fear to accept the consequences of one´s actions). And I want to laugh in his face (coz i know it would hurt him far more than actually bashing his skull in).

I love this drama, it´s truly an unexpected gem. Especially writing - a lot of thought, love and care went into it.
Currently at ep. 25 and have to say, i do like the dynamic between JTY and YZ, but it reminds me more of a counselor/social worker trying to reach to a very troubled kid than anything romantic. YZ imprinting/falling for her, that I can understand and am happy with, but JTY for him... (well, i can imagine a woman like her putting up with a man like him but for her own sake hope it´s not the case; he is the type of guy who will endlessly complain and b*tch about things, eagerly sucking up the joy out of the air and she would be the woman apologizing to everybody and defending him left and right; but i digress).
Hell, even the conflict now (JTY forcefully trying to get to him/reveal his plans and then being desperate to find a solution) and the whole trust issues and how to deal with them screams counselor and a child dynamic to me and and such light are just... chef´s kiss.
I do hope they keep it up, that it´s intentional and if so... kudos for them!

Edit: Oh well, it was naive of me to hope for such outcome. Still, a lovely show.

Perfectly summed up!
The thing is... just because the couple doesn't get a happily ever after it doesn't mean it´s a sad or tragic ending. Worth of a relationship should not be based on its longevity.
ML&FL had fulfilling relationship together filled with ups and downs. They don't regret it, experienced and learnt bunch of things, loved each other and broke up on friendly terms. Come on, that´s the best scenario there is! :)

Were she to never remember a thing, yeah, then we could talk about bad ending - it would feel unfair and not balanced, but that is not the case. Honestly, the more I think about it, the more i like the conclusion of this show :)

Love and destiny by this writer-director duo goes for HE (personally I have issues with it, but that´s my problem). Actually, there are some similarities about their dynamic to this show, now I think about it. It´s xianxia aand a bit long, but a nice one, given the genre restraints.

Love between fairy and the devil. Xianxia. Very nice take on heavenly vs "demon" realm with a charming romance. The FL is the naive young girl trope, but there is development and still very nice.

Story of MingLang (older, veeery long, but very good historical drama; there is a natural stope somewhere after 30 episodes, you can easily stop there)

Scent of time - has a somewhat HE, depending on your perspective, i personally am not a fan of the ML, but the story is interesting take on the villainess time-traveling trope.

Blossom (2024). Historical ones, time travel trope. Done very well. Fantastic chemistry between the main couple, interesting plot outside of the romance, charming side characters. Visually just magnificent.

Korean ones - Knight flower (historicalish comedy, great fun), Alchemy of souls (fantasy), our blooming youth (this one has extremely HE, i would call it idyllic even).

And one novel on the topic of unhealthy devotion done right, because it deserves more appreciation - Devil Venerable also wants to know. It´s a beautiful and fantastic story with wonderful translation. :)

Hope, something will pique your interest. Have fun watching.

Personally, I love the ending and would be disappointed with a HE. The whole story was leading towards separation, consequences of one´s actions etc, etc... and not just the FL-ML dynamic (although that alone was a reason enough to have them go their own paths; in a good way, their relationship always felt to me more like a lesson/experience to look back to, to be formed by than the ultimate goal.) but the drama overall - each of the arc was about ill-fated relationships or about clinging to someone in not healthy manner long after the relationship ran its course, and that letting go was a good thing - see Mr. Bai as the one guy who ended up alright, because he was able to see it was time to move on (I have some issues with their treatment of XingXian, but that is a separate matter).

The ending was well executed, a logical conclusion of the story they were telling and cathartic. Not to mention that in the usual sea of unhealthy devotions and unconditional OTPs a breath of fresh air I wholeheartedly appreciate.

One very enjoyable thing about this drama (same as with Love with destiny by this writer&director duo) is the obvious love for the genre and tropes they have whilst being able to ground them or slightly shift them into something refreshing. Especially the tired and irritating tropes, cliches in their rendition can became enjoyable. The domineering Sima lady NOT being petty jealous SFL, the weak heroine being aware of her weakness and navigating world accordingly, the taciturn ML being socially inept (really, the guy did not know how to hold a conversation, it was fun) and not dark&mysterious, the ridiculous slow&long shots of ML-FL gazing into each other eyes conveying a meaning and being bearable (this one is a gem i never believed possible! :) ), etc, etc...

Aaah, a slight need to vent.

I loved the family dynamics as well as most of the individual characters in this drama. The way none of them (main bunch included) is truly a monster, mainly foolish, selfish, hurt and muddleheaded. It gives them complexity and makes for an interesting watch as none of them are the good guys.
I hate from the bottom of my heart how all that goes out of the window the moment a young girl character is introduced. Boy-crazed the only thing they are good at. It´s unpleasant, repetitive and damn annoying. And down-grades the plot to a shameful farce.

As for the romance.. (currently ep27). I appreciate that the dynamic between FL&ML is based on the usual trope of saving a damsel in distress with added twist - namely the fact that FL has no reason to like ML as the only thing he ever done for her is saved her bunch of times. Which appreciated but not a strong basis of a romantic relationship. If I look back to their interactions till now, no matter how attractive she finds him, there is mostly bad blood between them - if nothing else, he forced her into the marriage. I get it will change, but i appreciated it was not glossed over.
**when she tells him off for being a controlling and smothering, i loved how surprised he looked! It didnt even occur to him she might not agree to the marriage, that she might wished to be consulted about it - fantastic!. However, I have some suspicions we are supposed to view him in sympathetic light? That this is a bad thing? Which is silly, because if somebody treated you like this, you should run for the hills. It doesnt matter he has reasons (good reasons) to be this way, she is a 15yo child with enough baggage of her own to cater to his.
But damn, she is sorta the type to fell into such controlling (potentially abusive) relationship, so double kudos for kicking him out.
(I know it will not last and i do hope it will be because he changes his behaviour and not because she accepts he "does it for her good". )

**Side-note: I will never stop appreciating the fact that they kept her behaviour age-appropriate. She is a feral kitten with possible ADHD, 15yo teenager who behaves accordingly - i.e. a mixture of mature and extremely childish and often very emotional. It´s top-tear characterisation and however annoying and frustrating the FL can get, I will cherish her a the writers for this.**

Aah, thank you- if anybody - for listening, the rant helped. Back to silly dramas.

isnt the main difference the upbringing & her charming mother? instead of being spoiled and raised solely by her, she got the basics from sb else (presumably competent - part of the deal after the poisoning affair) and currently, who knows for how many years, she is constantly criticized and compared to DZ (which probably didnt happen to such extent in the 1st life as the FL was far more pliant and married of at 16 - when the sister was... 6 or 7?) It´s not that much a surprise she is lonely and timid.

It seems to me that his conflict is with society, not within. Embroidery his love and his calling, his safe heaven and connection to the one healthy relationship he had. And because of embroidery being a female craft, he was laughed at and ridiculed. Same as for his merchant status.
Thus, he decides to take his revenge on society – by raping all the young ladies.
His conflict is reduced to class struggle (primary) and toxic gender roles (secondary). Fine, it´s a Chinese drama, I should have expected that. at least it was done gently and naturally, not as artificial propagandistic bullshit.

My issue lies with this – up to that point his main character traits seemed to be perceived impotence and hatred towards women. - The fact he uses embroidery, a traditionally female craft (one of the few things women can use to gain some level of independence and he steals it and makes career out of it – this aspect is more important on the conceptual level fo the story, then on the character level, I guess). The academy his personal garden, the adoration of those girls he carefully cultivates, the rapes, the treatment of his wife (the more she tries to endear herself to him, the colder he gets), how much energy he puts into stopping and belittling any women who doesn’t submit to him, etc. etc. -
I guess it could be tied to his “low self-esteem” to use Rulan´s words. He feels too weak to attack anybody else but the weakest (in his eyes) members.

But… it still seems lacking somewhat. You don’t become serial rapist just to take revenge on society.
I just can´t see where this hatred towards women, this lack of power in relations to women, the perceived impotence comes from. Because the rapes are about power, not sex. And more often than not, the girls didn’t say a thing. It was not the family who suffered, just the girls (given their age, this term is more appropriate than women). On surface level he can explain it to himself as revenge on society but in reality – based on what the story showed us till this point – his attention was on the girls. That´s why he wrote their names, not the family names on those flowers. That´s why he chose girls from all over the society, not just those from families above his station. Etc. etc. They were not means to an end; they were the goal.

In his childhood he had two forming relationships:
Parents – mother merchant, father useless scholar. They argued a lot. She domineering and gaudy. He had to rely on her for money. No career to speak of. But in terms of argument, they were sort of on equal footing. I would expect the father to be completely incompetent and powerless. In relation to outside world as well as towards the wife. That was not the case.

Then there is Concubine Wu as the traditional demure female victim resigned to her fate. For Wu Lian she was the bastion of healthy emotions and safety and all the good in the world. She never lost this position. They broke apart due to outside forces, she retained her innocence in his eyes.

I don’t know, the explanations just… seems lacking.

Or is the hatred supposed to be explained by the fact that his wife was not a virgin when she married him… when he figured out the only reason she married him was because of her tarnished maidenhood, his ego took such a blow, he decided to rape all the virgins he could get his hands on? This one escaped me but not anybody else? It would also fit with the toxic masculinity aspect he embodies (despite his lack of most traditionaly masculine traits - is it supposed to be overcompensation?) If so... it truly doesn’t sit well with me at all. It would tie nicely to the class struggle aspect too, I guess, but… it feels wrong?

If anybody can offer any insights, I would appreciate it.

I have a question about the Wu Lian origin story. So far (ep 20) I enjoyed every moment of this drama, its topic and the way they handled it, but there is something I struggle with in terms of the man´s past...

I agree with you in all four parts of your comment and in general have no trouble with any of the tropes mentioned. Hard to not be fond of tropes when one likes to watch chinese dramas.

My issue with with particular show is not about using tropes, the problems for me lie in using them... superficially and carelessly, I guess. It relied too much on viewer´s suspension of bisbelief. We are told the FL is clever and resourceful, yet she gets into such ridiculous mess half anepisode in? We are told she hates ML, yet gets constantly dragged by him left and right? To prove the ML is strong and capable, we get a sword fight that´s in reality just ridiculous? (And the beam-cutting??) It´s just lazy execution and bad writing - FL gets into the mess just to be dramatically saved, she can´t get rid of the creeper coz he is ML, etc etc. It´s rude towards the characters and the viewers, in my opinion.
And yes, this is a fantasy drama, I do not expect anything profound, artistically or intelectually challenging but I still think we should hold them to certain standards (I do, and then get angry wehn the shows set themselves such a low bar)

My jab at alternative show with the FL leaving was not about me wanting her to be strong independent lady (as you said, this is romance). What I have issues with is the couple dynamic. She repeateadly says no, he ignores her and forces himself into her life again and again. That is not romantic, it´s just unpleasant (to put it mildly). I get there are people who enjoy this sort of dynamic - the overprotective, controlling man & damsely lady. Personally, it always rubs me the wrong way - thus my harsh language in original comment. And in this particular show - it didnt fit with the set personalities. Plus, personaly - those two characters were not well-matched and I couldnt imagine them together, i.e. she deserved much better that a controlling show-of who would impose his image of her past(child at that)self on her.
**side note: you have shows where this dynamic - the protective man, damsely lady - is done right, i.e. doesnt come of as perpetuating certain unhelathy stereotypes. Of the top of my head: Story of MingLan - he saves her a lot and yet, you can see they are matched, there is mutual respect etc , etc. Love betweeen fairy and thedevil (bubbly weak young, bitter strong guy) and again affection, respect tdd (there were some issues in terms of respecting her wishes but nothing too jarring). Eternal love with Nini (same vein, even though I had issues with the ending a bit); I think Joy of life couple was this sort of thing?**

Another - very very important - reason why I am so miffed about this particular drama are false promises. We all know dramaland has many many issues, the ridiculous beauty standards one of them. Therefore, when i got a first FL who has obvious facial scarring who is promised to be clever and independent, I got my hopes up. Then, not three episodes in, she gets swapped with the embodiment of all the toxic beuaty standards (this is not meant as an attack on the actress, the issue lies with the industry; she - as all the others - has to comply to be succesful).... that is in my book false advertising if I want ot be very polite, if not - i would call it spitting on anybody who ever complained about this issue).

Couldnt manage more than two episodes, whichdoesnt seem enough for a review, but i do need to vent, so....
Problems in randomorder:
mary sue characters, lack of character integrity (clever and resourceful female lead - so we are told in the first 10 minutes of the show - turning into docile idiot the moment male lead enters the scene), holey plot, melodrama and ridiculously farfetched high stakes for the FL resolved in a ridiculous fashion by the ML. Conflict created by moronic and improbablemisunderstandings.
Forceful ML who doesnt take no for an answer. Yay. The attempt at detective case laughable. The idiotic fight at the end of episode one done for no other purpose just to let the ML wave his sword around. His cutting part of the support beam/rafter (what do you call it)... what? why? how? have you all gone mad?! The obssessed sister? really, in this day and age??? Thewholecrap with plastic surgery??? REally? Even attacking the mayor with hummus seems more plausible than this crap.

Fine... now for something more coherent.
As with many other dramas - it seems as if the creators just picked desirable/popular tropes and mashed them together in hope of commercial success without bothering to consider how they would fit together character of plotwise. Because the plot-said-so the end all be all reasoning for anything happening on the screen. Additional reasonings include: up the melodrama and make the ML look cool. The initial push-and-pull between the main couple was cut short, forced and so ooc it was in another village, thus turning ML into a very probelmatic stalker with no respect for the lady and her into a very stupid creature not worth anybody´s attention. Maybe it was just bad execution, maybe they didnt want to spend too much time on the push-and-pull bc it was just exposition.

Positives - visually nice. That´s it. That´s the only positive thing I can think of...
The FL scarring is done properly, not just a tiny nick in an nonvisible area... and then she dies and gets a new dainty body.... as i didnt know anything about the novel, it made me angry - i would enjoy the scarred FL very much. Alas, naive of me to think such a thing would be possible... Aaah. Now, I want to watch a story with with first FL. SHe would pack the moment the idiotic ML arrives and leave and starts a happy life somewhere else. She gets a career and uncovers some conspiracies and actually uses her brain and finds somebody who will respect and cherrish her even with the scarring and body mass of adult woman instead of 5yo. The original ML reduced to occasional pathetic villain. In later half he can get a redemption arc where he learns very painfully that his opinion doesnt matter and other human beings have agency. Aaa, such a nice show! :)

I know this is chinese drama, so it´s understandable, but in ep17 I really expected them to start singing the Internationale...

waiting for Godot II