chillingindoors

I couldn't agree more.
They were all imperfect, flawed and very real. It takes two hands to clap and I'm glad the writing did not try to pin the fault on one character completely. We saw a very balanced and nuanced perspective of both sides. The writer did not shy away from making them appear selfish, insensitive or unlikeable.

And yes, I am not advocating for prostitution or cheating, but the sex definitely helped her release that stress and hurt she was bottling up inside and allowed her to initiate the hard conversation.

That's fine. We can agree to disagree.
I've never been in Ichiko / Otoyan's position but I work with couples going through a divorce all the time so I find it hard to completely pick a side (though probably I might lean more towards Ichiko because I empathised with how she remained where she was while Otoyan constantly distanced himself or walked away or moved out). In essence, I think they're both very flawed, and very real.
But I'm pretty sure about one thing - you're not the only one projecting LOL. I think most viewers (including me) did it while watching this.. it's a bit of a 'is-the-glass-half-full-or-half-empty' kinda situation where our experiences, views and morals would shape the way we see it.

Oh yes, that's a real struggle. I know of a few friends who conceived via IVF and it is both mentally and physically draining for a woman.
I am glad both leads met halfway in the end where they focused on the current happiness rather than fixating on the past, or planning for the future.

I don't think Ichiko is a reliable narrator. Agree. But neither is Otoyan. I think both of them were at fault.
Even though the conflict began with sex, I don't think that was the real problem. Both of them had too much pride, and couldn't take the hurt but more importantly both were fearful of tipping the balance and initiating that hard conversation which might lead to an end they did not want. He chose to walk away and distance himself and she also let him do that . But they kept the pleasantries and cordialness until it reached a point where they couldn't take it anymore. And still, he walked out, never initiating the divorce question until she finally brought it up.
The "I have to turn around first because my husband is too kind" was very telling. Even the way he initiated the breakup conversation with Mitsuki before she stabbed him was pretty cruel and insensitive, like he had his share of fun and now we can just be friends who consult each other on our problems. Or when he acted like his affair was a very dignified act because he was in love, while looking down on Ichiko's affair as a lowly disgusting thing because it was a one-night stand with a random gigolo.

Thanks for sharing about the flowers. I actually googled its meaning and I think its an interesting choice that they did not share it, leaving that sense of intrigue and excitement for both the leads and the viewer.

Interesting perspective.
I thought the opposite actually.. it takes both hands to clap and both of them were at fault.. a bit of a action / reaction thing.
She may not have wanted the sex, but he is the one who just walked out, found another lover and distanced himself. She, too, took it and did not try to attempt a conversation about that. It's pretty normal for a partner to not want sex all the time.
She wanted his love again but he pushed her away even though he did not want a divorce and clearly loved her, and then got riled up when she hinted at another man and when he saw her with the young man. He did not think about her hurt just like she did not think about his.
The conversation about the kids came from him first, when he left the house and came back while she was sick. He mentioned wanting to make it work, but immediately directed the conversation to sex and having kids. That was really insensitive. She clearly obliged and gave in as an attempt to save the marriage.
She initiated the conversation about the divorce but in some ways, he pushed her towards it. Notice the flowers at the back during that conversation. He continued the class and had his leisure time while she was going through the infertility treatment which was both physically and mentally toiling for her. Not only that, they were clearly having sex and she did not enjoy the sex. She mentioned in the early episodes of how she had a low sex drive. Ichiko's statement of how she had to turn back first because Otoyan was too kind was telling. He always initiated hard conversations in a kind manner to the point it was selfish and insensitive. Case in point : the conversation before Mitsuki stabbed him asking her to be friends after that serious affair, or even the conversation when he came back to the apartment while she was sick and started talking about sex and kids, or when he tried to justify his affair in the name of love like it was a very dignified thing to do while looking down on Ichiko's one night stand. He appears nice and caring on the surface, but can be very insensitive and cruel at times.
Both of them did not want to sell the apartment. He talked about how he wanted to mention that the windows were problematic so that no one would buy it. He was hoping she would stop that transaction because he did not have the guts to do it.

It was a 2 way street for both of them. He wasn't the only one yielding to her. She yielded to him too, when he displayed selfishness and insensitivity towards her. And in the end, both of them met halfway [the symbolism of the flowers and choosing not to have kids and enjoying the current state of bliss)

At least that's the way I saw it.

Yes, both couples rekindled and fixed their marriage, and there is nothing wrong with that. Many couples do. Infidelity, lack of sexual pleasure, being unable to bear a child, or a stifling environment does not always end a marriage, not especially if the couple has a desire to work through it, re-evaluate themselves and their relationship, and finally work at changing themselves little by little.

An immersive, intricate and provocative psychological drama depicting the highs and lows of a marriage with 4 flawed leads. While our stellar cast of Takahata Mitsuki, Okada Masaki, Kora Kengo and Nishino Nanase were effortless, the real star of this drama was its script which was full of depth, heavy dialogues, and symbolisms that left me with food for thought after each episode. If you've ever been in a relationship, you're likely to find yourself in the position of either of the 4 leads or all of them.
Highly recommend this realistic drama for an open-minded and mature audience that appreciates how our world is full of colours beyond black and white.

P.S That synopsis does not do justice to this drama.

Episode 7 ramblings as I watch the episode

Narita Ryo <333
What he said about how a husband / wife aren't always on the same page - BANG ON.

Damn that doctor at the infertility clinic was rude and insensitive. I've heard friends tell me about how these procedures can be both mentally and physically tiring but watching it made me really empathize with couples who decide to take this route. I wish more people were not fixated with having a kid of your own blood and considered adoption.. oh well.

In E2 we were introduced to Ichiko's childhood trauma and walls.. we've seen it at play in bits and pieces throughout the drama but in this episode we begin to really see how it makes her shut Otoyan out and suffer silently. Otoyan was clearly trying to offer sensitivity asking her to pause on the treatment or talk to him but she wouldn't take it because her mind is so fixated on the next step like having a baby is the only thing that would save this marriage..
Glad Otoyan brought it up and hallelujah finally he said the magic words that it's ok to not have a child, and that they can be happy without it. Otoyan can be sensitive sometimes..
Also interesting how the ikebana was at the backdrop in this scene.. great symbolism of how flower day broke the marriage, and how Ichiko was just putting up with it all this while.
And the insensitivity is back - " is it because I had an affair with your permission"
EH she did not give you permission. How do you not understand this?! She said it casually.. she did not actually expect you to actually find another, and she admitted this after you got stabbed, didn't she?

I love Ichiko's realization and declaration to learn to open up to people. YESSSS, Finally! Maybe the divorce has done her good.. let's see.

Otoyan seems like the perfect guy on the surface. He loves Ichiko's mother like his own, he takes care of people, he's there when you need him and will even say the right comforting words but in crucial and small moments you see how he doesn't look within enough and blames others way more than his own self. He tries his best to never look like the bad guy and tries to phrase even the worst things in a nice way so as to look good (not realising how insensitive it sounds)
case on point the scene before Mitsuki stabs him, or even the divorce conversation..
He's very real and flawed, just like most humans are, with both nice and ugly sides.

In maximum dramas we see a divorce and then leap.. but in real life, it doesn't just end with a divorce. There's a lot to do even after that such as moving things out, settling property and alimony etc, or even the emotional withdrawals you feel especially when you still care for each other and are not completely sick of each other yet..
To see Otoyan support Ichiko after her mother's death was such a nice touch. You can see that both of them will always find ways to be in each other's lives..

Finally both of them are at the calm that Shiro / Mitsuki reached. You know they say sometimes certain relationships need to hit absolute rock bottom (to the point that it cannot get worse than that) for it to rise from the ashes.. the divorce did both of them good.
Finally they could communicate free of burdens / obligations and expectations. Even though it was a conversation about Ichiko's mum, you could see why they'll always be special for each other.
"I need to be the one to turn around because my ex-husband is too kind" THAT HURT

Beautiful symbolism of Ichiko / Otoyan not being able to sell the house because of what it means..interesting use of the kitchen space as an icebreaker because their laughters always centered around eating together / meals.. like that was the most couple-y thing they used to do.

Ending it with the flower that represents [we don't know what] - great great symbolism, almost to say there is no concrete ending and it's a continuation (just like life) where we keep going and we live in the present (Ichiko's "I am happy right now")

Beautiful. I liked this finale, and this drama.

Episode 7.
What a quiet, and endearing finale with a beautiful message.

Spoiler, please.
There are 2 couples in this drama. Which couple are you talking about?

Have you actually watched the drama? Ichiko and Otoyan were in love when they got married. I am not going to go into details of why and how but she agreed to let him to spend 1 night a month with his lover.
It's ok if you don't like the drama after watching it, but don't judge it even before watching it.
And I am not making any excuses for infidelity but it is extremely common in the world today, not just in Japan. This show does not in any way romanticize or excuse infidelity. Rather, it presents the reality of what it takes to make a marriage work.

Thank you! I need to update it... it's been so long.
HAHA

Yes, but nothing explicit. No nudity or sex scene in this drama. We just see kissing and the rest is implied.

Cha Min's happy dance at the beginning of E9.. OH MY HEART <3

There are 2 couples in this, all in all 4 main characters. I'm gonna assume you're talking Ichiko / Otoyan. She had a one night stand (just once) with a male prostitute after her husband refused to have sex with her (as he was in love with another woman).
They divorced at the end of Episode 6.
I have not watched the last episode yet so I don't know what's the ending.

Ahh thank you!

This drama is very realistic, heavy and contemplative but if you are able to appreciate it, there is so much to take away from it.
Episode 6 - another fantastic episode, focusing on what it truly takes to make a marriage work. Stellar writing and screenplay especially in this episode.
Can't wait to watch the finale.

P.S If you liked the award-winning Hollywood film 'A Marriage Story (2019)', then you might enjoy this.

Ramblings as I watch the episode
Episode 6
Otoyan is the classic case of pot calling the kettle black. Cannot take his wife having a one-night stand while he had countless amounts of sex with his mistress for over a freaking year. Worst, he leaves her in agony and still has the guts to tell his sister that he will not get a divorce and he's trying to prevent that. Like dude if you want to save the marriage, look within first, talk to her and try to understand her instead of distancing yourself.
I enjoyed the conversation with the sister. Very realistic, and there was a beautiful advice hidden underneath the whole why-the-marriage-ended. But unfortunately, Otoyan didn't hear it and that was COMMUNICATION.
Interesting how the sister notes that it's great he could talk to Ichiko as friends, but eventually they became friends. WORD! While a great marriage is founded on friendship, it is more than that. It is companionship, which includes being independent of negative outcomes.

Shiro and Mitsuki's conversation on 'family' - so so well written. This show is seriously so well-written. What a fantastic exchange showing how flawed, selfish both of them are., how the man so conveniently calls it a family when she doesn't live up to his standard, but brushes all responsibility on her. Same with Mitsuki - yes you guys are a family and you cheated on him? How is that being a family? And how do you not expect him to question whose child that is when you have been having an affair for so long?
And you guys want to bring another child in this world to make another unhappy human be born into this universe?! I wonder if the writer is trying to prove me wrong with the next scene after that. Shiro takes 1 step forward and walks with Mistuki and Hiro. Looks like they'll keep the baby... SIGH.
Also I cannot believe I'm saying this but I actually feel like I am beginning to prefer Mitsuki / Shiro over Otoyan / Ichiko.

I zoned out the moment manipulative Rei said Ichiko is no longer a client. Ichiko, GIRL, how do you not see what this guy is doing? He literally earns money from making people comfortable and seducing them. Of course I'm not saying that those who prostitute themselves don't deserve love or are fake, but Rei is. HAHA.
And there we have the bait - do you want to have dinner? after dinner, Ichiko wanna go to hotel?
I am glad she shut him off and declined. Ichiko, focus on your issues before getting involved with another man.

"I know I have no right to feel hurt" YESSSSSSSS Otoyan continue. Ugh the message cut off his thoughts. Interesting cordial message exchange between husband-wife oops I mean friends.
"Why exactly am I feeling hurt" FINALLLLLYYYYYYY

"Its disgust over the lopsided power balance" and the unfairness of it.. interesting perspective. I did not think about that at all.

Another interesting perspective / conversation about comfort and eroticism. I think Ichiko definitely had a point. But it also seemed like a fantasy? Like you don't get expect your relationship to be as passionate as it once was. Comfort takes over in every relationship and isn't that what we all strive to achieve? To come home to someone that makes you feel comfortable and someone you can share everything with..
It's almost beginning to feel like the perfectness of their relationship (like no matter what happened, the fact that they were able to hold on and be cordial) is beginning to bother them.. clear case of grass is greener on the other side. Like they're yearning to be a couple that fights and has hot make-up sex like some teens over the middle-age calm romantic relationship.. let's see if I am right..

What a contrast with Shiro and Mitsuki who are actually beginning to find comfort in their relationship and taking a step forward to be a family. Unlike Ichiko / Otoyan, these two are trying to change, and re-build their relationship. Finally Shiro understands what Mitsuki has to go through everyday, and the amount of care and attention his kid requires. Very beautiful sequence between Shiro and Hiro and the way the kid kept saying Yanyan. Even more beautiful was the couple sitting on the kitchen floor having an honest conversation as parents. That simple pat on the shoulder, and those simple words of 'thank you' and 'sorry' AHHHH that was lovely. Hats off for the writing, acting and direction. That's what companionship is.

"We need to focus on what we can do to be happy together"
says the person who found another woman the moment the wife didn't want to have sex.
says the person who left the house.
And then immediately goes on to talk about kids and sex.
OTOYAN YOU NEED A TIGHT SLAP RIGHT NOW. ARE YOU EVEN HEARING YOURSELF?!
Goes on to kiss her and leaves so that things don't go back the way they were
WOWWWWWWWWWWWWWW I don't even know what to say.
The silver lining is that both of them love each other but let' s see how long this fake bliss lasts..

"I trust you.. I want to trust you" YES, THAT IS A MATURE COUPLE RIGHT THERE. Shiro is not a perfect man by any means, and has a lot of shortcomings but he's trying to improve, trying to listen and understand. Everyone deserves a second chance especially when they prove themselves worthy of it.

Can this player Rei stop calling Ichiko?! Something about him rubs me the wrong way..

HUH?! Mitsuki seems to have some warped logic / understanding.
FIrst she let Hiro apologize for her getting involved in an affair when it was her fault because remember Hiro walked away from the lady at the bar instead of sleeping with her.
And now she thinks that Otoyan had an affair with her because he cherished and trusted Ichiko?
GIRL WHAT ARE YOU SMOKING?!
Is she trying to play some game here and egging him to think about himself = get a divorce?
And then goes into you saved me and I'm trying to re-build my family.. girl you stabbed him in his genitals and you're rubbing the fact that you're pregnant and then you tell him to be happy.
I am beginning to see why Otoyan and Mitsuki fell for each other.. they have similar warped logic and do the exact opposite of what they say. Hypocrites of the highest order.

and there we have it. Rei plays his game. Weren't you in support of her marriage, and now you're trying to push her into re-considering? There we have it! I told you he's manipulative. And my point proven further when he asks her for sex again. ICHIKO STOP MEETING THIS GUY. Glad she cut him off once and for all.

I just realized another difference between Mitsuki / Shiro and Otoyan / Ichiko. MS don't share their marriage issues with others and resolve it within themselves, while OI talk to the whole world about the issues instead of each other. Sharing is great, but be careful of who you share with. Also don't conflate others' opinions with your own; another downside of sharing.

I was all for "We might have been stuck circling the same spot in the past and will do that in the future but .. we were serious.. we never broke up" but her let's have a baby threw me out. Let's see where this goes because the way I see it, having a baby is not the way
oh wait
she just said we got a divorce
HAHAHA I knew it.

LMAOOOOO at that ending! I laughed out so loud.
Amnesia was used in the most tropey way possible that you can't take it seriously. That aside, it was a simple and feel-good story of self-love, full of positivity and heart. Kudos to the way their love story was written like any other, without an emphasis on her fatness / looks.
Time well spent :)

if you're looking for historical Japanese dramas with romance, you should check out 'asadoras'. They are historical dramas that air weekdays mornings in Japan and are usually 15 mins an episode, spanning over 100+ episodes.

Some recommendations with beautiful romances -
https://kisskh.at/13553-asa-ga-kita
https://kisskh.at/7411-hanako-to-anne
https://kisskh.at/33564-yell
https://kisskh.at/7889-gochisousan

Non-asadoras (full length dramas) that are historical romances -
https://kisskh.at/28252-in-this-corner-of-the-world
https://kisskh.at/12252-tenno-no-ryoriban
https://kisskh.at/49689-kaidan-botan-doro-beauty-and-fear