elepantsman

Here is the answer. In the 20th century, Japan was literally an megalomaniac dictator. Korea was poor as shit. You have the Taiping Rebellion and ROC, which ended in failure when PRC overthrew it. Mao Zedong condemns Han chauvinism and introduces Zhonghua Minzu. Han Chinese became a slight in China. There was NOTHING of Han to be proud of in China. Then this narrative completely flipped over in the 21st century. Japan retained its wealth, Taiwan became technologically advanced, and Korea became a global superpower overnight. Now, China wants to go back to its Han roots and be proud of being Han? Is this what Chinese culture and heritage is? Be proud of tradition when it's convenient to? Even at the expense of stealing culture from different countries? Just like the Ming and Qing, your "culture" or "heritage" is what is fashionable at the moment. This is why no one except other ultranationalists will take your claims seriously.

At least the Taiwanese you scoff at are preserving the Qing culture proudly. They are more Chinese than you than you even realize.

You don't need to shave your head bald to wear MANCHU CHINESE DRESSES?????? You even said it yourself that China doesn't have true historical dramas. So, why is it in the last DECADE ONLY LITERALLY we are getting mostly Han dresses and "proud to be Han!!!!" Chinese folks, but for the last CENTURY (not year, decade, vicennium, or half-century, BUT A CENTURY) we don't see a SINGLE "proud to be Han" Chinese film or series until Hallyu wave happens... Come on now, really?! Yeah, the Chinese just found their lost roots, in a very coincidental matter 😑

Why are you shifting the topic to Queen Woo? Idk or care about that shit.
It's also ironic that you claim Taiwan gave up their identity voluntarily. Just look at modern C-dramas and the clothes. Look at older C films, any one of them (5 Golden Flowers, Ju Duo, etc). Many of the modern C dramas are closer to K-dramas than older C-films! The clothing of older Chinese films are like Taiwan's (clearly Qing based and proudly Manchu). Then out of nowhere, literally mostly in the last decade, we get a bunch of proud Han Chinese with Han dresses? Whaaaat...? And even then, compare the transformation of the "hanfu" between The Story of Han Dynasty (2003), The Prince of Han Dynasty (2002), The Han Triumph (2011), and modern C-dramas.... Oh, and The Han Triumph is 2011, the only drama I can find that is proudly Han (please correct me if I'm wrong), which is literally way past Hallyu's explosion in Asia (which was in 2002 in China); China was talking about "Han fever" in reference to the Korean wave in the 90s. Come on now, these are all coincidences? Enlighten me of the 100 years of C-films and dramas, when has the focus been on being proud of Han China before the 90s?

Ok, ignore the politics. If China's tradition for clothing is so deepily preserved and such a national heirloom, why don't I see any of these hanbok style hanfus before the 21st century? Your film history is over a 100 year... Why do you keep avoiding the question?

Look at Ming era clothing, Ming hanfu, and hanbok. Pay close attention to the waistline. China did not preserve traditional clothing; it does not have a national heritage for clothing thanks to Mao. Korea preserved the Ming clothing, made alterations in Joseon era, and hanbok has become a national heritage. This is similar to Japan's kimono. What Chinese constructivists are doing is literally just retracing the Korean steps for hanbok but for their hanfu to claim it as its own during modern day (not all Hanfu designs, specifically the Ming hanfus with high waistbands and other features that represent hanbok). That is just dumb... Your heritage for this is, at best, 30 years compared to Korea's centuries. And again, do you not think it is so mighty coincidental that this recent "Han" obsession also matches Hallyu's rise to fame? Come on, I know you have critical thinking skills even if you are under CCP.

If you're such a history guru, you should know the "Hanfu" movement is a recent movement (1990s) and the focus of Ming designs/dynasty came in (2010-) [You can easily prove me wrong by showing me a modern style hanfu with a high waistline below the underbreast like the hanboks before 1990, closest I can find is Tang era hanfus where a waist belt goes to above the chest]. This is when Chinese nationalists also began to emphasize Han identity over Manchu when Manchu identity has been prevalent for much of China's history since the Qing (Chinese media dating before the 90s quite literally proves this for what Chinese considered to be their traditional clothing).

The start of the Hallyu movement is the 1990s, Korean historicals such as White Sonata and Jewel in the Palace made its mark in Asia in 2000s, then globalized in 2010s with K-pop.
What a mighty coincidence!

My aunt-in-law is a Hong Konger. She is fluent in Canto/Mandarin can also read Mandarin perfectly. One of my extended family is literally Hong Kongers and they tell me the shit CCP tries to pull all the time. They are also more neutral about the Japan issue compared to I am (don't care about WWII stuff). Anyone with a brain knows what China is trying to do is bullshit.... If you have origins to hanbok, why the hell didn't you claim it for all these years, why didn't you show hanboks in all your dramas and films. Why is it only when Korea is popular and everyone is interested in Korean culture, your hanfus are changing and now China wants to claim it? Stop sidestepping the question and answer.

Yes abc Chinese, abc/national Hong Kongers, and abc/national Taiwanese people. Literally EVERY single other who have the freedom to think and aren't stuck in echochambers.

You are trying to bring up an irrelevant topic and injecting yourself into this conversation when it's about what the "historical" category entails for the West. In case you don't understand, Netflix is a Western company.
Even if I may be an "outsider," I know EXACTLY what you are talking about because I have IRL Chinese, Korean, Hong Kong, Taiwanese and Japanese friends and we talk about Asian movies, dramas, and series all the time. I also know the CCP is trying to steal Korea's heritage, and after Korea's recent fame, Chinese media have been changing their hanfu to resemble Korea's hanbok more and more (You can just watch older C-dramas/films and the newer ones and see how much they've changed... Anyone who isn't a Chinese ultranationalist and have eyes can see this unfold in real time), how China is trying to claim Kimchi is Chinese, and some other nonsense. No, it's not shamelessness, it's China trying to steal the spotlight of its "little brother country." Why is it that out of the wood works, Korea's hanbok have barely underwent design works, but hanfus are ever changing not even by the decades but by every few years...?

You are not understanding the argument... Please re-read what I wrote. Also, recently I have discovered Koreans label series that strive for historical accuracy, similar to our docudramas, differently. It is called 정통사극. If you want historically accurate dramas where historians are often consulted, watch these dramas instead of watching mainstream Korean historical romance or action dramas then complaining about inaccuracy...

>"Using Shogun as example of Japanese historical drama/series is proving how clueless you are....LoL"
It's called sarcasm?

>"You should try watch some of Japanese REAL historical drama (definitely not Shogun)...then you come back and read you comment again"
You are missing the point. The point is you don't understand what HISTORICAL EPICS are, which is what Shogun and this film are.
I have tried to watch J-dramas but the acting or production are often really poor. I very much prefer J-films as a medium, but if you recommend one with good production and realistic, subtle acting, I will take a look.

>"Please name one title of korean movie/drama that have high historical accuracy. If you couldn't, then it proves my point above was right (Korean never produced historically accurate piece). No...even Jewel In The Palace isn't accurate with the fairy tale ending...if you think I didn't watch that."
I said Jewel in the Palace was as accurate as Rome. Neither series aimed for historical accuracy. Some self critical historical Korean films are White Badge and The Fortress. There are tons more, but I didn't see them all. I am not Korean and I am not a East Asian historian. I have also learned Koreans, like the Chinese, distinguish series that aim for historical accuracy against fictional. It is called, "정통사극," which is probably equivalent to our docudramas, and there are a long list of dramas if you Google that.

>"The ancient Korean war was always mentioned if the drama/movie is involving Hideyoshi era....and it was always portrayed as the negative/unnecessary action."
First, the complaint is about more recent history, specifically post WWII. Second, the complaint isn't that Japan doesn't view wars as a negative (or that it views as a positive)... If you had cared to have read the keyterms I had posted below, the complaint about Japan is its indifference to CULPABILITY, that Japan OMITS or CHANGES key events to best fit Japan's narrative. Japan teaches its civilians that the war was bad, but that point isn't to make Japan responsible for the war crimes. The point is to claim EVERY country engages in war and war is bad, therefore it is a way of sweeping responsibility. The fact that Kretuzer had to tell you about the atrocities of Nanking (such as Japanese soldiers impaling babies and taking photos of them) which is the most well known, but not even the worst, event tells me you don't have a clue what you are talking about. Have you learned about the 3 All principles of Japanese imperialism, Race to 100 in Nanjing, the Bataan Death March in the Philippines, labor camps and comfort women in Korea and China, Unit 731, Unit 100, Oka Unit, Nami Unit, and all the various state organized human experiments? Do you know the names of the high officers of Japan's army? Their philosophies or social policies? Their use of biochemical warfare? What Operation PX is? And these are only scratching the surface. Yes, war is bad, but in all of history, Japan and Germany were the worst offenders. It is therefore only right for Japanese civilians to learn about it in detail especially ones that were organized or approved by Japan itself, and condemn that behavior and its ancestry. The Germans are doing this today because all of Nazi's high officers were wiped out. But unlike Germany, due to the U.S. placing its own interest rather than condemning evil, Hirohito and many of his officers were spared for diplomatic purposes and his faction's legacy remains today, which is also the reason why Japan's history of WWII is greatly limited compared to the world's. Nowadays, Japanese officials are paying tribute to these high officers (even though Hirohito himself has "boycotted" against their actions). It would be as if the Germans today were paying tribute to Nazi leaders like Hitler, Goring, Ribbentrop, or Goebbels, or even celebrating Hitler's birth and turning it into a holiday, which is all absolutely ridiculous. This is a big factor why people are upset and continuously upset, though there are also many who have forgotten or don't care because of Japan's influence in anime, games, technology, and has given foreign aids and loans to many countries as "hush hush, forget the past" money. You can claim it's "complex" all you want but for everyone else, especially the victim of Japan, it's selfish and lunatic behavior.

>"but apart from the sexual acts, as far as I know their involvement in WW2 was never portrayed as a good/heroic thing in general."
Can you even imagine a well informed German to say such a nonsensical thing? It's clear as day you don't understand Japan's brutality and its inhumane philosophy during this period.

Please actually Google these terms (if you are in Japan, use VPN) and read the literature instead of trying to guess what they mean.

Okay? That'a exactly my point. Then these are bullshit,
>"in europe they are also usually referred to as "period dramas" or "costume dramas" and only called historical dramas if they attempt to show some actual historical event"
>"and if someone makes a historical drama, in europe, people are usually first to analyze it and talk about what was historically accurate and what wasn't"
My point was historical fiction and historical productions aren't separated in the West. You and your Chinese friend kept insisting that China and Europe categorized historical fictions differently from regular historical series which is a complete lie for Europeans; idk about the Chinese nor do I care.

Peaky Blinders and Norsemen would be considered historical series, not historical epics. This film seems closer to Ridley Scott's historical epic Gladiator, which has a made-up character with a made-up scenario, but is loosely based on historical people, concepts, and events. Idk what Ring of Nibelungs is, but if it's anything similar to LOTR, then no, it's fantasy....

Idk what your point about Bridgerton is because Uprising clearly notes real historical concepts and people like the Righetous Army and King Seonjo. My point about Bridgerton was to debunk your ridiculous claim about how Europeans see genre, not to say this film is akin to Bridgerton...

Okay, if you're not going to give me a Western example, your argument literally boils down to it is wrong of Korea to not follow the categorization system of China's rather than the West's...

Anyone of you, give me a SINGLE example of a historical fiction series made in the West that also isn't under the categorization of "historical." Notice you say a bunch of nonsense especially kretuzer in regards to Europe, but not a single example was given? I have given examples to the contrary.

Give me a Western example then please. 😊

What are you talking about. Which Europeon country does this? Europe does not precisely distinguish period/costume dramas and historical dramas? Versailles, The Crown, Bridgerton? Must I go on?
Vikings and Barbarians did not get negative feedback from their posters alone. I never heard of Barbarians getting backlash, but I did hear of it from Vikings because it was on the History channel, not because of its genre. JFC, are you guys real people or Chinese bots or something?

Okay, and the West calls it historical. Why does Korea need to follow the categorization criteria of China?

If you are talking about instances, then yes. All countries do this. If you are talking about more modern warcrimes against Georgia, Ukraine, Checheneya, etc I'm well aware. Now imagine how they would react if they also had a world recognized film industry like Korea's Hallyu...

I told you for the millionth time, epics aren't meant to be historically accurate. EPICS AREN'T SUPPOSED TO BE HISTORICALLY ACCURATE. Hopefully by now, unless you have a brain problem, you understand. I gave various examples of epics matching my description, Shogun, Barry Lyndon, and Lawrence of Arabia. I can list 10 more if you would like. I even gave an example of a historically accurate Korean drama that is similar to Rome.
Right, innocent comments about katanas and armor and they keep replying that Korean historical films aren't accurate... Why do you keep playing dumb? My first response was my reasoning. If they just left the comments about potential inaccuracies of the drama like the katana and armor, then that would be fine and innocent. But that's not what they did. They are trying to shade the entire industry.

Yes I meant Australia