flowermoon9

Right?? That whole episode felt like everything collapsed in seconds.

The Lin’an town arc was so good that I wished the drama had 60 episodes. Now, I feel they could’ve wrapped it up well within 30 if they were going to butcher the story’s quality like this. There were also many things I didn’t like in the second half, aside from what we got in Episode 39.

They focused too much on secondary characters, didn’t properly develop Changyu’s transformation from an ordinary butcher girl into a female general, and had her join the war without any formal military training. Her gang members kept interfering in her matters with her husband, repeatedly disrespecting the Marquis as if he were still the matrilocal husband they knew in their hometown.

I haven’t read the novel, but I saw a comment mentioning there was supposed to be another angst-filled scene where Xie Zheng discovers that Changyu’s father was responsible for his father’s death. His inner turmoil, torn between his sense of duty (not wanting to be an unfilial son) and his love for Changyu, was much more intense in the novel. He distances himself from her and even punishes himself with 108 floggings.

But the drama toned all of that down and had him accept her too easily. That completely diluted the pain, sorrow, and lifelong trauma he carried after witnessing his parents’ unjust deaths. I was really disappointed with how his character was portrayed. He’s supposed to be the general of generals, the great Marquis of Wu’an, but we’re never truly shown why.

And not to mention how we were bombarded with Qi Min and his intimate scenes with Qian Qian. I’ve never skipped scenes as much as I did whenever theirs came on. Meanwhile, the more I looked forward to Gongsun and the Princess’s love story, the less screen time they got. 🥲

I genuinely don’t understand what was going on in the director’s mind for the second half to fall apart this badly

Episode 39 made me wonder what was even going on in this drama. When Xie Zheng allied with his uncle to stand against Qi Min, I thought, ‘Okay, I guess the enemy of my enemy is my friend.’ But then they suddenly turned against each other, and I was like, ‘Hold on a second.’ And in the blink of an eye, the fight was over before I could even process it as a proper fight.
In the first breakup scene Yan Zheng told Changyu, ‘I have an enemy -- either he dies or I do.’ Anyone hearing that would expect an extraordinary final face-off and look forward to how he wins. But what we got instead was nothing short of a parody.

Yan Zheng had more fighting scenes while severely injured, coughing up blood at intervals, as Changyu’s matrilocal husband in Lin’an town than he did as the Marquis of Wu’an. I spent the entire second half of the drama waiting to see him in his full glory, taking down Qi Min, but all we got were a few brief moments of him riding toward the enemy, marching, glaring, and swinging his sword here and there, and that was it.

And what on earth was Episode 39? Even Changyu had more substantial fight scenes earlier than she did as a general in that so-called ‘final battle.’ Couldn’t she have stopped the arrow aimed at Xie Zheng? If she had been present, Wei Sheng wouldn’t have had to sacrifice his life to repay Xie Zheng for saving his mother.

The director really fumbled the second half, giving unnecessary screen time to Qi Min and his repulsive scenes with Qian Qian, which could have been replaced with Gongsun and Princess Qi Shu’s storyline. They deserved far more screen time and I was hoping to see more of their love story than watching Qi Min’s psychotic obsession with his wife.

The Lin’an town arc was the best part of the drama -- everything from the story to the pacing, the comedy, and the emotional beats was well balanced. I even appreciated how the struggles of ordinary people were portrayed. But the moment I thought not a single second was being wasted in this drama, everything started going downhill from there.

The FL literally said, after finding out his identity, that she wouldn’t worry about his safety anymore now that she knows he’s the marquis. Even if that was blurted out in anger, I couldn't believe she could say something like that as his wife.

She’s illiterate and dense at the same time. She can barely read beyond a handful of letters, struggles to take responsibility, and keeps creating unnecessary danger. And yet a woman like that is placed on the front lines to lead men in battle.
Only eight episodes are left, and we still haven’t seen the ML’s full glory as the marquis. I want to see his fight scenes and how ruthlessly he takes down his enemies. The time spent on those Qi Min–Qian Qian disgusting intimate scenes could have been used to showcase the ML in action.
And I don’t think she’ll stop picking up a sword. The drama has been highlighting her journey from the very beginning—her so-called ‘transformation’ from an ordinary butcher to a ‘legendary’ female general. So she’ll keep interfering where she shouldn’t and ‘fighting’ alongside the ML like they’re two bros on a battlefield. Sigh.

Apparently, it’s too much to expect the writers to let the ML handle the sword and the enemies while the FL uses a bow and arrows. Making the FL the alpha warrior and turning the ML into her sidekick has become the norm now.

I couldn’t agree more! It’s mind-boggling how seriously the ML takes this battle - planning every step and having his army stick to it - and then there’s his wife, who jumps in on a whim and acts purely on emotion without consulting anyone, as if she’s still in her hometown and not in an actual war. She relies on emotions, pure luck, and brute strength. Her decisions as a female general are almost always catastrophic. Every time luck works in her favor, it’s only because the ML is watching over her and keeping her under his protection.

And yet she has the nerve to say she won’t hide behind him when he tells her to stay back and let him face the enemy first - it clearly stings her “girlboss” ego. And look what that leads to: the ML’s right-hand man gets injured, and her friend Mandi is first hurt and then loses his life - all because she got distracted and lost in her thoughts in the middle of a battle. She was the one who told Mandi to stay close to her, so by her own words, it was her responsibility to protect him, and she failed.

She only managed to kill that enemy in two strikes because Mandi’s death fueled her anger and gave her the adrenaline to finish him off. So does that mean every time she’s in battle, she can only unlock her strength after someone close to her dies? The writers have made her fighting scenes feel like a supernatural show rather than a historical drama.

And I also hate how the ML is portrayed here. She undermines his contributions to her life and takes his love for granted. As the general of generals, he has absolutely no need to be her matrilocal husband, yet he endures her insults again and again and still runs back to her whenever she’s in danger. He owes her his life, but it feels like he’s paying for it by tolerating her harsh words and actions repeatedly. She never thinks twice before saying hurtful things or hitting him, and he’s expected to give in to her every mood.

She keeps testing him emotionally, which is why she brings up divorce papers every time he says he’ll leave, even though he never said he would divorce her. Bringing it up repeatedly is like rubbing salt in his wounds, because he never wanted to leave her in the first place and delayed it as much as he could.
In the breakup scene, he forcibly kissed her after she accused him of harassing her. He was already leaving, and she brought up divorce and even compared him to Song Yan. If she could slap him, why couldn’t he kiss her? Calling it harassment feels like an insult to his character. She can get on his nerves, insult him, and hit him but he can’t even kiss her? And people still enjoy seeing him get beaten by his wife, saying he deserves it and more.

But what about the countless times her reckless decisions put others in danger, and the ML has to clean up her mess? Where is the accountability then? If the ML had lashed out at her for hiding her identity - or worse, slapped her - the audience wouldn’t hesitate to label him a red flag and would've lost their minds. Reverse the genders, and suddenly all her actions seem justified - she can do no wrong.
Why didn’t she tell him the truth about her father when it was her turn to come clean? Hypocrisy much? And even then, the ML forgives her - her mood swings, her pushing him away, and still promises to stand by her no matter what. Reverse the situation, and she would have shut the door on him and never looked back if she found out he was connected to her father’s death. It’s all incredibly frustrating.

You have no right to raise your hand and hit your spouse. It doesn’t matter whether it’s the husband or the wife. If the person has no ill intentions, calling it harassment and resorting to physical violence to vent your anger is disrespectful. If you’re angry, step back, stop talking, or distance yourself - anything except getting physical.
It’s a different matter if the spouse turns out to be an evil person like the Sui brothers. In that case, no amount of slapping or beating would be enough. A knife would be necessary

And I agree with everything you said. She tends to make decisions on everyone’s behalf, yet hates it when someone does the same to her. That’s why she lashes out at the ML every time he does something she doesn’t approve of. But she herself dared to drug him and go to war in his place. Saying she did it because he lied about his identity and she couldn’t bear the thought of him dying doesn’t absolve her of making a wrong decision. It was a breach of military law.

She didn’t know he was the marquis, but she did know she was part of the military. Even replacing a single soldier without orders is punishable. Yet she got away with it again - and even slapped him, taking out her anger on him when she learned the truth about his identity. It often feels like she takes advantage of his weakness, knowing she can hurt him however she wants and he still won’t leave her.

As for him hiding his true identity - being the marquis, he carries the responsibility of the entire military and the lives of his people. If he concealed his identity, it was for valid reasons, including protecting her. Everyone is after the head of the Marquis of Wu’an - imagine if they found out who the marchioness is. He couldn’t risk her life.

Moreover, I was frustrated too when she knocked out Lord Li and deprived him of the chance to meet his master before his death. She questioned the ML, asking who he thought he was to act without considering her feelings - but the same can be said about her. Who does she think she is to act on others’ behalf and make decisions for them?

The writers leaned so heavily into a female-centric approach that they lost all semblance of logic in the writing. I couldn’t believe they actually thought it was commendable to have her join the army with no formal military training. She went to war based on a few techniques she picked up from a brief sparring session with her husband and her father’s friend. The rest she relied on were skills from butchering pigs and whatever she had learned years ago from her father. Is war a joke?
She gets distracted, becomes emotional in the middle of facing the enemy, and the ML’s right-hand man ends up saving her life at the risk of his own. Later, they say he might never be able to raise a sword again. If that injury had happened while taking down the enemy, it would have been an honourable sacrifice - but it happened because of her absent-mindedness in the middle of a battle. And yet she gets promoted to a high-ranking position instead of being punished. It’s farcical at this point

And when the marquis upholds order, the writers tone down the scene with comedic effect. Like when the FL saw the enemy trying to dampen the army’s morale, she decided to take matters into her own hands - and it was pure luck that saved her from being pierced by enemy arrows. That ‘luck’ was the ML ordering his men to protect her and her companions.

When she was brought in for punishment, the ML created a situation where he could fulfill both his duties as her husband and as the leader of his army. I was so annoyed that they turned that scene into comedy when it was supposed to highlight the seriousness of breaching military law and acting without orders from the marquis.
The writers seem to love turning the ML into a caricature, making every other plotline heavy and emotional - except when it comes to showing the weight of his authority as the marquis. That’s why we can barely see him fight. There are more scenes of him coughing up blood, losing consciousness, and glaring than actually fighting in the war - and he’s supposed to be the general of generals, the great Marquis of Wu’an.

Being trained by her father to protect her loved ones is very different from receiving formal military training. You don’t join a war based on what you learned years ago and a quick sparring session.
Moreover, she faces no consequences for her reckless decisions and gets away with them every time because the marquis watches over her and orders his men to guard her at the risk of their own lives. If she chose to join the war, she should bear the consequences of her actions - but instead, she gets promoted to a high-ranking position.

What irks me is that she faces no consequences for her rash actions and gets away with it every time because she’s the Marquis’s weak spot. And yet, she never fails to punish him when she thinks he’s made mistakes. If she chose to join the war, she should be held to the same risks as everyone else.

I don’t understand this current obsession among C-drama writers with creating Mary Sue FLs. They show the female lead with almost herculean strength and god-of-war-level skills, being the only woman in an entire army of men and achieving great merit with no prior formal training.
And yet the ML is constantly watching over her and protecting her, even when her reckless actions are this close to costing her own life - or the lives of her comrades. This has happened three times in a row in this drama. Every time she gets involved in war or deals with the enemy on her own, the ML orders his men to guard her and protect her life.

In war, a soldier’s mindset is to fight to the death - the priority is defeating the enemy. But here, for the FL, those rules don’t seem to apply. The ML’s right-hand man even broke his shoulder saving her when she got distracted for a second after the enemy mentioned her late father. And yet she’s still allowed to lead soldiers and become a high-ranking official despite such reckless mistakes and having no formal training.
If you say women don’t belong in the army, people will call you a misogynist. So why the double standards for this supposedly great female general, Fan Changyu? Why does the ML constantly have to risk his men’s lives to save her when their focus should be on defeating the enemy?
It could have been a great drama, but they had to mar it with unrealistic tropes.

And not to mention the FL suddenly joining the war and even leading the ML’s men with no proper military training. She learned one or two techniques in a quick sparring session from her husband and her father’s friend, and apparently that was enough. The rest comes from childhood lessons and butchering pigs 🙄

You're very kind! Thank you 🫶

​I know exactly how it feels to be bashed for speaking the truth and calling a spade a spade in drama communities -especially when your argument goes against the majority opinion. I've faced this myself in the past.

​I wasn't a frequent visitor to MDL before. I used to only check a drama’s ratings before starting it and maybe skim the comments to gauge the overall vibe. But after finishing Love Between Lines because of all the craze and hype, I couldn't help myself... I had to see if anyone else felt the way I did. When I saw your comment, I just knew I had to share my thoughts and back your take -because you told the truth!

​I hope you enjoy the dramas from my list once you’ve had a chance to watch them! 🤗

The only Thai drama I found that didn’t follow the typical lakorn template was The Crown Princess (starring Nadech and Yaya). Although the storyline is a bit weak and has some loopholes, I watched it for the main leads and wanted to see how they overcame their problems together. It was refreshing to see how well the lead characters complemented each other; specifically, the ML wasn’t your typical abusive lakorn ML, so I didn’t even mind the plot holes!

As for Turkish dizis, I managed to find four gems after being disgusted by multiple popular dramas that glorified chronic cheaters, manipulators, and abusers as MLs. It’s shocking how often the FLs in the majority of those series don't just smack the hell out of them for their nasty behavior, but instead stay with them as if they were the last men on earth. So these four Turkish dramas felt like a breath of fresh air, and it makes me wonder why it’s so hard for writers to create more stories like this.

I totally understand what you mean about tolerating an ML who is unpleasant at first but changes over time to become kind and loving! That’s exactly why Adim Farah is number one on my list. You have to see the growth of Tahir Lekesiz; despite being involved in the criminal underworld, he has a heart of gold that only begins to shine after he falls for the FL. He is incredibly loyal and devoted. The FL has a complicated history, but even when she is forced to leave him, Tahir never lets go. I was so impressed! Just ignore the second male lead here because he’s a total douchebag; it really sickens me that such a character was even created for this drama. He felt completely unnecessary, but I guess that’s a trait Turkish writers can't easily erase, even for an exceptional series like Adim Farah.

The other three are:
​Her Yerde Sen: Nothing extraordinary, but definitely better than most popular series and it was a fun watch. It’s the only drama where I couldn't even hate the ML’s ex because she wasn't toxic lol
​Dolunay: I watched it a long time ago and, while I've forgotten the details, I remember the leads were mutually understanding and the ML wasn't a cheater/abusive.
​Early Bird: The ML did act like someone who runs away from his problems instead of facing them head-on towards the second half, and I didn't like how they dragged out the misunderstanding, but the first half was good and definitely better than the usual Turkish fare.

I’ve really loved our conversation; it was such a delight talking to you!! You probably won’t believe it, but I created this MDL profile specifically to back your comment when I saw others accusing you of blowing things out of proportion. You were the first person I saw highlighting the unfair treatment of the ML and the hypocrisy of the FLs in current Chinese dramas. And I couldn't resist sharing my thoughts too -especially given the mismatch between this drama's high rating and its inconsistent characterization, clichés, and fillers. I really appreciate your viewpoints and the fact that we had this detailed talk!

If it’s hard to find a manly ML in Chinese or Korean dramas who doesn't become subservient to the 'girlboss, I'm never wrong' FL just to prove his loyalty and undying devotion, it's equally hard to find a Turkish or Thai drama where the ML isn't borderline toxic and the FL isn't too meek to fight for herself, tolerating his BS.

​More often than not, the Thai/Turkish MLs are either playboys or cheaters, or they simply turn a blind eye to the injustices the FL faces, treating them as if they aren't an issue. Both extremes are nerve-wracking and give me the ick. Selecting a good show from a sea of these bogus options is like finding a needle in a haystack. That's why I return to the older Chinese and Korean dramas that made me fall in love with the genre in the first place; I rewatch them whenever I feel bored or disappointed with current shows.

I’m not from the US, but I absolutely get what you mean. It makes me glad to find a kindred spirit who shares such similar values and viewpoints on these topics. I honestly thought I was alone.

It has become increasingly common in current dramas, whether Chinese or Korean, for the FL to do things that would incur the absolute wrath of the audience if the genders were reversed.
​There are viewers who actually rejoice when the ML suffers in agony while the FL neglects him. They justify her actions and claim he needs to suffer more, even when he isn’t at fault. If a male lead treated a female lead with that same level of unfairness, those same viewers would complain endlessly. This double standard has caused the quality of recent dramas to deteriorate. Most now follow a predictable template: the ML falls hard and eventually gives in to every demand the moment the FL sheds a tear, regardless of how much like 'garbage' she treated him previously. Older dramas felt more balanced; the leads had a mutual understanding, neither took advantage of the other's devotion, and they truly complemented each other.

Now, everything feels forced into a 'female-centric' mold. In many recent costume C-dramas, we see this 'Mulan-ification' where the FL suddenly gains God of War skills, effortlessly taking down men and becoming the 'knight' for the ML. Personally, this saps my interest. While an FL can have great fighting skills and intellectual depth, she doesn't need to 'become the man' or save him constantly to be a strong character. Take Bai Qian from Ten Miles of Peach Blossom, for example. She was immensely powerful but never needed to be the 'knight' for Ye Hua and yet she protected him with her life.

In shows like TMOPB or Ashes of Love, when the ML made mistakes that hurt the FL, he truly suffered and repented for years. You almost never see that level of repentance from an FL, even when she has deeply wounded the ML. It’s as if writers are afraid that holding an FL accountable will get them labeled as misogynists. The end result? A narrative where women aren't held responsible for their actions, suggesting that if a man truly loves a woman, he should just endure her harsh treatment without question.

Yeah. The accident storyline part and her way of treating the ML were completely out of her character. Since ep 1, she was shown to know exactly how to do the right thing when it came to her parents or her best friend, she even sacrificed herself to cater to their needs. Yet she strangely lacked that same discernment regarding the ML.

She overstepped his boundaries from the get-go, and pushed him away when he needed her most. The moment she realized how deeply he cared for her, she became reckless with his feelings, consistently putting her own desires and needs above his and ignoring his emotions whenever her own were at stake. This directly clashed with the personality the drama built up from the beginning.

Overall, the drama was fine, but it wasn't exceptional enough to warrant an 8.8 rating, especially given the inconsistent characterization of the FL and the fillers scattered throughout. Even the ending felt abrupt and incomplete. While the cinematography was well-crafted, the music was lovely, and the leads had great chemistry, the story did rely on cliché tropes.

The childhood connection and the 'coincidence' of the ML crossing paths with the FL in real life - only to become her tenant almost immediately -felt too convenient to be believable. Even if he had valid reasons for renting in her neighborhood, the timing was just too unrealistic. For once, I’d like to see a drama where the leads fall in love based on their current lives, where one main lead doesn't have to do all the heavy lifting in the relationship, and there's no pre-existing past connection. I started this drama because of the high rating, but I didn’t get the hype.

It was almost as if, from the moment he caught her interest, she became obsessed with him to the point of overstepping boundaries without a second thought. She clearly knows how to do the right thing when it comes to her parents or her best friend, even sacrificing herself to cater to their needs, yet she strangely lacks that same discernment regarding the ML. This shows she took him for granted.

​The moment she realized how deeply he cared for her, she became reckless with his feelings, consistently putting her own desires and needs above his and ignoring his emotions whenever her own were at stake. This directly clashed with her personality the drama built up from the first episode. She treated him unfairly, and pushing him away with such harsh words was completely unnecessary.

Had the writers not created such an ungrateful, self-centered FL, who only cared about her own feelings and prioritized her parents' opinions over the ML's despite knowing they were wrong about him, I'd have rated this drama much higher. She intentionally wounded the ML with her words, treated him like a doormat and took his love for granted. I honestly don't understand how the drama maintained an 8.8 rating.

I couldn’t agree more! The FL was the one who fell first and made the first move, yet she got upset when the ML didn't reciprocate immediately. She tried everything to make him realize his 'mistake,' but once he finally reached the point where he couldn't bear to be away from her and she became his whole world, she failed to prioritize him the way he did for her when it mattered most.

The real test of a relationship is how you act when your partner is going through their worst moments. If you let go of their hand during their darkest hour, your love simply isn't strong enough. The FL didn't just break up with him; she did it using the harshest words imaginable - words he never deserved to hear from the love of his life. She even claimed she should never have fallen for him. Then, despite seeing that he wouldn't leave her side after her father’s accident, she brought him to her parents' house only to blurt out how he reminded her father of his painful past.

Later, when she discovered his secret search for his father’s perpetrators and ran into him at the factory, she pushed him away yet again. She only gave in after he pulled her into a tight embrace, following her accusations that his words were hollow and that he cared more about hatred and secrets than her. She only yielded after he repeatedly proved that she was his ultimate weakness.

While she protected him from being insulted by others, that doesn't excuse her cruelty during her father’s accident. She could have simply expressed her dilemma - the guilt of being with him after learning about his past and explained that she needed to separate for her father’s sake. Instead, she chose the harshest words possible to pierce his heart, forcing him to chase her endlessly and endure her moods.

This is why it doesn't absolve her when she eventually helps him with his father's case. She only did that after he proved his devotion and respected her boundaries. A perfect example is when she ran into his mother at his place; he rushed there to formally introduce her not as his 'girlfriend,' but as the 'love of his life.' He respected her decision to stay apart while still acknowledging his own feelings.

​It also really irked me when she rejected his marriage proposal in front of her parents. Given how supportive he had been from the start, it was obvious he would have championed her dreams. Instead, she argued that she had spent her whole life doing what was expected of her and wanted to focus on her career first. She spoke as if being married to him would somehow hinder her. Believing that, let alone saying it in front of him, is like an insult to his love. Yet, in the end, he still gave in to all her demands.

The problem isn't that the FL didn't support or love him; the problem is that she didn't prioritize him the way he prioritized her.