Jess4163

Yeah, I couldn't rate it any lower since I've never given a quality drama that hooked me so thoroughly for most of its run anything less than an 8.5. It would’ve had to have gone off the cliff entirely for me to rate it any lower, lol.

They definitely did ruin LBY in my eyes and destroyed the romance for me, which is ultimately why I couldn't give the overall drama a very generous 9/10.

Had the romance been more satisfying, my HUGE bias (I freely admit to it in this case) for the drama (it did hook and take over my life, which isn't an easy feat to achieve) would have still prompted me to give it a 9 despite all the major issues I had with the writing/editing in part 2.

That's an enormous feat because I generally never give any series with egregious writing flaws any higher than an 8.5/10 no matter how addicted or obsessed I become. And yet, I desperately wanted to give LLTG part 2 and the overall drama a 9/10 despite all my ranting.

Had they just stuck the landing with the romance, I would have generously rated it a 9. But that didn't happen, so an 8.5 it is.

Lol, based on your watchlist, I'm surprised you gave this drama a chance at all. You don't seem to like romances and seem to prefer dramas that are more plot heavy with decent action/martial arts like NIF (top 3 drama for me) and "Joy of Life" (waiting for s02 before watching). I think the only romance heavy drama you gave a 9.5/10 was GMP (director's cut), one of my favorites of all time, despite some flaws in its pacing and bloat. Definitely curious about what prompted you to check out GMP since the heart/soul of that drama is the heartbreaking/dramatic romance between the two leads...

Since LLTG is all about slice of life moments and character relationships, if you're not into the romance or characters, definitely drop it immediately. This drama has nothing for you.

But this isn’t the case of not adjusting expectations since I was hooked by part 1 of the drama first and could tell they were being faithful to the novel based on the storytelling and dialogues.

After finishing part 1, I then started reading the novel and was mainly delighted by the way the drama adapted the world/characters. Other than some quibbles (mom too unreasonable, one note bitches, and FL love revelation montage), I actually preferred the drama part 1 to the novel due to the characters feeling more real to me.

More than anything, I desperately wanted part 2 to have the same level of care in its script/storytelling and overall faithfulness to the novel like part 1.

But alas, the second half of part 2 tanked in overall quality. Still, I could have forgiven it all had they not ruined the romance for me as well.

But they even majorly changed LBY’s character into a passive guy wallowing in self misery who never steps up and fights to win CSS back. This change killed the romance for me (my main reason for watching this drama), so I couldn’t even give this drama a 9/10 in the end. Pretty much all my worst fears after watching part 1 came true…

Lol, I'm the exact opposite: Saw this drama first and got severe SLS, which led me to seek out "Because of Meeting You" where Deng Lun and Sun Yi got their HEA! Love their characters and chemistry in both series...

Thanks for responding! I'm glad I was able to give you another opinion about part 2 amongst all the 10/10 reviews and universal praises. I couldn't even give it a 9/10 anymore due to even the romance tanking for me amongst all the other major writing issues.

But if you don't mind a ML who starts out passionate/possessive later becoming passive and self deprecating and a capable FL who makes dumb mistakes from time to time, you can continue watching.

Thanks for responding! Even though I loved the way the drama made LBY more tender and less oppressive and unhinged, I hated how they completely changed his character essence after 5 years. The writers completely declawed him!

At the very least, novel LBY will deliver on the romance all the way through. He doesn't regress like drama LBY does and lose all steam and fight. In the novel, LBY never told CSS he wanted to part from her after the manor massacre like he did in the drama. And after his rescue, my sister told me he went crazy and tried to go after her once she wanted to break the engagement. The emperor had to knock him out.

All of this tells me that as long as LBY’s alive and CSS’s near him, his need for her will always overrule logic. I'm still going through the novel and can’t wait to read all the later scenes myself -I'm going to pretend the 5 yrs. later storyline in the drama doesn't exist and just go with the novel scenes.

The drama creators definitely should have found a middle ground regarding LBY's later characterization, esp. 5 yrs. later: They did an awesome job all the way up to the revenge arc of toning him down, yet still retaining his essence. He’s more tender to CSS and less unhinged, but his possessive and somewhat twisted personality was still left intact.

But the indecisive, self deprecating, and passive LBY in the later episodes completely stripped him of that darkness/edginess that made LBY unique. It’s what made me and many others fall in love with him in the first place.

I heard some people argue that LBY's trauma may have caused him to be so passive later on, but that doesn't wash for me at all. His trauma wouldn't have rendered him to be that passive simply because nothing's more traumatic than witnessing the death of his own father in the hands of his uncle and having to pretend to be said killer uncle's son for 10+ years.

He's been living with trauma for almost his whole life and that never stopped him from being relentless and passionate towards the love of his life. In fact, it's because of trauma that he's unable to operate as a normal person or form attachments easily. Even the people closest to him are unable to give him the warmth he needs. This explains why he's so desperate to hold onto CSS, because he's finally able to feel warmth with her by his side. And after taking revenge, he has nothing but CSS to live for, so why the hell wouldn't he eventually fight to win her back?

Drama LBY after 5 yrs. turned into a total stranger. I never thought the writers would turn LBY into a passive and self deprecating ML who loses all steam.

Even though LBY could have been more subdued at first, given his intrinsic possessive nature and tendency to lose control when it comes to CSS, he wouldn't have been able to stay passive for long. After 5 years of missing her, he would have succumbed to his chaotic feelings and gone after her again.

That would thoroughly convince me of his passion and desperation for CSS! But drama LBY was so passive and robotic that I became convinced that he didn't want her all THAT badly -his edginess disappeared and he's no longer the LBY I knew and fell in love with. This is not what I signed up for...what a shame!

Yep, the drama creators completely dropped the ball in the second half of part 2. The storytelling, drama logic, and characterization all took a nosedive!

They definitely stretched out certain arcs like the Liang family one (but that at least had a cool rescue sequence where you saw LBY crazily worrying about CSS -that level of emotion was good for the romance) and didn't devote enough time with other important ones like the Lou Ben and Cheng family disaster arcs. All of those were terrible written and edited.

In addition, the drama creators spent a lot of time building up the royals in part 2 only to forget about them in the later half. We could have used a few more follow-up scenes with the princes, esp. 3rd prince. His relationship with the ML was very heartwarming, but we never even got a conclusive scene after the final rescue. Instead, the drama folks had to waste time whitewashing grandma and mother Yuanyi, whom they hardly spent any time on in part 2 anyway (they had their time to shine in part 1). Sigh...it's like the writers had no clue what to prioritize on in the later half.

As for CSS, she's been displaying more character inconsistencies throughout part 2 that by the time the LJT and Lou Li arcs happened, I completely gave up on trying to take her seriously. She became nothing more than a plot device to go with whatever state the story points demand her to be. The CSS from part 1 never would have gone along with the two females, esp. not Lou Li. Where did her distrust and shrewdness go?

Even though HBY could have been more subdued at first, given his intrinsic possessive nature and tendency to lose control when it comes to CSS, he wouldn't have been able to stay passive for long. After 5 years of missing her, he would have succumbed to his chaotic feelings and gone after her again. That would thoroughly convince me of his passion and desperation for CSS! But drama HBY was so passive and robotic that I became convinced that he didn't want her all THAT badly -his edginess disappeared and he's no longer the LBY I knew and fell in love with. So sad...

And all of that mockery makes complete sense given the situation and setting. An abandoned fiancée would definitely face ridicule esp. if her paramour was someone of high esteem. But, the drama didn't show any of that due to time constraints and them already milking the "bitch drama" card too many times.

I heard from my sister that there were no one note bitch caricatures in the book and that the "bitches" acted more like real people who bullied the FL out of jealousy in a more believable manner. Lol, I'm not even going to go into the drama's reliance on one note female caricatures for cheap drama despite them all being written much more believably in the novel.

It may be due to censorship (flawed characters can't have happy endings) that the drama creators felt the need to whitewash all the characters in order to give them all a happy ending. But they went too far: Changed characters too drastically that it sacrificed story integrity and made the ending feel forced. Lol, they made grandma and mother Yuanyi both act out of character in order to "redeem" them when it's frankly not needed at all. They had their frustrating character quirks and by stripping it all from them, they become less unique and more like plot devices.

Even with the censorship, the drama creators are perfectly capable of reaching a middle ground like they did in part 1, so I don't know why they had to go with the worst methods that compromised drama integrity in the second half of part 2. It's like the writers all got lazy and gave up trying to make sense...very disappointing.

Your points are very valid and I think LBY pretending to kidnap her in order to ultimately avoid implicating her makes the most sense! My sister told me CSS was later mocked at by other people who believed LBY was using her this whole entire time. I’m thinking it’s probably due to his kidnapping actions after the massacre.

But even with these actions, he still never told her he wanted to part from her. And after his rescue, my sister told me he went crazy and tried to go after her once she wanted to break the engagement. The emperor had to knock him out.

All of this tells me that as long as LBY’s alive and CSS’s near him, his need for her will always overrule logic. I can’t wait to read all the later scenes myself!

Yep, the drama creators should have found a middle ground: They did an awesome job all the way up to the revenge arc of toning LBY down, yet still retaining his essence. He’s more tender to CSS and less unhinged, but his possessive and somewhat twisted personality was still left intact.

But the indecisive, self deprecating, and passive LBY in the later episodes completely stripped him of that darkness/edginess that made LBY unique. It’s what made me and many others fall in love with him in the first place.

I can’t believe the drama creators departed so far from the books by making LBY this passive?

How could he have won a stubborn girl like CSS back after what he pulled on her without stepping up and initiating more? It was wholly unbelievable that he only needed to put his life in danger a few times for her to jump back into his arms. Ugh…both had to act out of character to fulfill this unconvincing reconciliation.

I don't mind flawed/different/stubborn FLs, but I detest inconsistently written ones who are supposed to be "smart." OMG, the FL in part 2 was dumbed down by the drama writers one too many times.

She came up with half-baked plots involving seals not once, but twice! First with the fake tiger seal and the second with the seal that would have let her out of the city. You would think that after the first time, she would have learned not to present fake seals. But no, she does it again and gets bailed out again by one of her male admirers. Why couldn't she have negotiated with him beforehand about her intentions instead of risking everything on a fake seal that only has a 50% chance of success? This is her family we're talking about!

In addition, she gets tricked twice by two females she doesn't wholeheartedly trust: Once by LBJ and the second by the extremely dumb Lou Li. Lol, she suspects both aren't up to any good, but goes along with them anyway and does all this without any guards or protection. WHY???!!!!

My god were those arcs horribly written and executed...I still love the FL, but can't ignore all these retarded moments.

Despite all the writing inconsistencies and uneven pacing, I still could have been satisfied had the drama creators continued to deliver on the romance.

Unfortunately, the romance later on was too passive and subdued for me, kind of boring. After five years, I wanted to see LBY really fight to get his girl back, but instead, he stayed too passive and never lost control. That's just not exciting nor is it true to his character.

He's somebody who lost his whole clan as a kid and found it extremely hard to connect/fall in love with anyone. Thus, once he finally found the love of his life, he tends to be extremely possessive and protective. No way would he remain this subdued after five years of being without his girl.

In the novel, as soon as he's anywhere near the FL, he loses control and would end up going after her. That's the LBY I know and love. Not this passive guy that's content to never make a move unless she wants him to...LBY was never the type of guy to watch from afar and keep waiting. He could delude himself into thinking he'd be able to "do the right thing" by letting CSS go only if she's not in his vicinity. But as soon as she comes into his sight, all hell would break lose and he won't be able to stay away from her. Such is CSS's effect on him.

Now, that version of LBY would have been really exciting to watch: Somebody who's very human and unable to contain himself after being starved of CSS for 5 long years. No way would he be as controlled as he was in the drama. Come on drama creators, where's the passion and desperation?!! Where's the emotional catharsis?!!!

The fighting/clawing and emotional groveling scenes from the book where LBY pleads with CSS to not be so cruel to him would have stimulated the romance like nothing else. It also would have given the actors more to work with and we could have gotten some truly emotional/angsty scenes from them, making full use of their chemistry! I wanted to see WL and ZLS go all out with their acting.

Instead, the drama creators made all their subsequent interactions too tame/subdued, effectively devoid of any tension. The romance simply fizzled out completely for me by the end. I couldn't believe how bored and checkout out I was in their final scene together (felt long and stretched out too).

Sadly, due to LBY's unfortunate character change (drama creators effectively declawed him) in the latter portions of part 2, he won't be joining the ranks of my two favorite MLs of all time: Ye Hua and Li Cheng Yin. Han Shuo (Romance of Tiger and Rose) also beats him when it comes to passion and relentlessness.

Sigh, now I'm going to wash my disappointment by finishing the novel. I preferred the drama part 1 (part 1 of the novel was consistent, but didn't hook me like the drama), but I'm sure part 2 in the novel will kick drama part 2's butt, esp. when it comes to the romance.

Overall, I was very disappointed with part 2: They had some amazing scenes: Pretty much all of the emperor, empress, consort Yue, and 3rd prince scenes were awesome!

I also loved the arc where CSS, YSJ, and 3rd prince team up to help exonerate LBY. Those episodes were amazing and the FL was consistently smart again during this period. I remember saying to my sister, "we're back with part 1 FL and why couldn't she have been more like this for the entirety of part 2?"

But the arcs after this were almost all terribly rushed and edited. The Lou Ben arc in particular was a complete disaster! Probably the worst edited scenes in this entire drama...the events just happened because the writers said so. More attention and care to the script was needed to come up with a reasonable explanation for why Lou Ben acted in that manner. Someone of his talents and patience wouldn't have committed those acts without something happening that's life threatening to his loved ones. And if he had this dark/twisted/ambition over everything side, the drama should have revealed it to us.

And don't even get me started with the most retarded scene of all: The LJT carriage scene where CSS, despite not trusting her, still rides with her alone and ends up almost killed had LBY not come to her rescue. That scene was horrendously written and it makes CSS seem extremely dumb since she clearly doesn't trust LJT, yet chooses to be alone with her anyway without any protection. Like, huh? I thought LBY taught you some moves and if you're unable to even handle a physically weak female, how were you able to lead soldiers and protect villages? Again, this scene was nothing more than a cheap way to make the LBY look heroic and to hasten CSS's eventual forgiveness.

Which leads me to the other retarded scene where CSS repeats her mistake: Despite being suspicious of Lou Li (Lou Yao's stupid cousin) and having never gotten along with her, she chooses to go with her alone anyway without any guards (she could have taken any of the dozens that were behind her). Why do the drama creators constantly have the FL purposely placing herself in danger when she had no reason to do so? Why does she constantly go off to dangerous places alone despite knowing she lacks martial arts skills? And what was the point of her previously asking LBY to teach her self defense skills if she never intends on using them in crucial situations?

Not only that, shortly after arriving at the Lou residence, she's constantly eyeing Lou Li with suspicion and wouldn't even drink the soup laced with poison. Yet she still does nothing but roll with whatever Lou Li wants, ending up trapped with YSS and ZJ. The idea that a braindead girl like Lou Li could have successfully lured one of the smartest drama FLs is so laughable and ridiculous -we have truly hit the bottom of the barrel.

If the director needed to get the FL into the trap to continue the story, he could have done so without sacrificing all her brain cells. Seriously, the FL's character in the later episodes of part 2 was so inconsistent, constantly vacillating between brilliance and retardation, that it gave me whiplash. The drama successfully turned her into a walking plot device, being whatever the plot point demands her to be.

The subsequent underground reveal was also rushed: I tried to hold back my laughter when LBY just came leaping down when the last time we saw him, he was still outside and didn't even mention the Lou residence. It's like entire scenes were skipped just to get to the showdowns more quickly.

I also really hated using LBY's near death to force CSS into finally forgiving him: It was done really badly and felt cheap. The drama writers fit his whole regretful speech and near death experience all in one rushed scene to reconcile the leads. I felt nothing as I couldn't even take his near death seriously: LBY was able to take down dozens of guards with only a few followers, yet couldn't even handle a frail woman holding onto his leg? He does nothing to shake her off and only stares up at CSS, waiting to die and see her reaction. It seems the drama creators wanted to make that scene touching, but instead, it felt so unbelievable and laughable. Once again, horrible writing and execution.

The drama writers pretty much went with my worst nightmare: Using lame near-death experiences as a shortcut to speed up the leads' reconciliation. This is pretty much the least satisfying and cheapest way to force a forgiveness in any romance. And it's definitely not enough for our leads' specific situation: LBY abandons CSS when she's already a character with trust issues due to being abandoned by her parents for 10+ years. This is not something she can get over after two near death situations (not to mention they're two of the worst written/executed scenes in the drama).

Overall, the pacing in part 2 was uneven (certain scenes stretched too long while others were too short) and certain arcs like Lou Ben, Cheng family calamity, and the last few episodes all felt rushed and sloppily written. It's like the drama creators ran out of time and decided to just give us all the payoffs without the proper setups, which effectively made everything feel unearned.

I also hated all the whitewashing: No way would grandmother Cheng ever say that she'll save all her treasures to use on CSS (completely out of character). The mother trying to reconcile with CSS also felt forced and shoehorned in just because the writers wanted to tie everything up with a neat bow. If the writers intended on making everyone regret their actions, they would have had to put in a lot more character work and heartfelt interactions to make it convincing. But what we ended up getting felt completely half baked and unbelievable.

@WindBlows

Very insightful points and could have explained LBY's actions in pushing CSS away at that moment had the drama creators intended to focus more on LBY's trauma and healing. But, that's never been their plan and it's clear to me that the only reason they had LBY say these parting words to CSS was because of censorship: They needed to tone down his dark side and make him more noble and pc.

In the novel, he never said those parting words and wanted to take her with him during his escape. My sister said he asked her why she came and that he would have come for her. He then told her not to be scared and to come with him. She also wasn't deeply in love with him yet (merely liked him) and started resisting since he concealed so much and she didn't want to be entangled in his mess. He ended up kidnapping her because he needed her by his side so badly, but once they're forced to the edge of the cliff and it truly looked like there's no way out, only then did he shove her aside because he couldn't let her die with him. This showed that unless death really came knocking, he never would have let her go.

This is more in line with LBY's twisted personality as he's someone who, due to years of trauma/loss, desperately clings onto any hope that life gives him. CSS was the first ray of hope he had and it's a miracle he even fell in love at all, so no way would he ever voluntarily give that up once he's in possession of it.

Since the drama CSS was way more in love than the novel counterpart and the drama creators don't intend on exploring trauma/healing, they should have stuck with the novel more, having LBY tell her to come with him, maybe saying, "are you scared..." and have her follow up with something along the lines of, "who says I'm scared? I took an oath, promising to stick by you and I'll abide by my word, following you to the ends of the earth." This would have been way more romantic and made LBY less indecisive.

Plus, in the drama, If he had been that determined to die, why did he take CSS's hand? He could have just triggered the general enough to kill him quickly and leave CSS out of everything as he originally intended. But he first pushes her away, then immediately reneges and runs away with her, only to finally push her away anyway. It makes him seem like a yoyo, unable to make up his mind, not attractive.

Same here! This drama deserves to be heavily promoted because it's just that good and one of the rare dramas where the writing and characters stay consistent from beginning to end. After being somewhat let down by part 2 of "Love like the Galaxy," I'm especially grateful for dramas that deliver all the way to its final scene. That really is a tough feat to accomplish...

Totally agree! During my first watch, the first two episodes were pretty boring/confusing because the drama kind of just throws you into its world and it was a bit of a chore to figure out what was going on and who all the characters were. Despite this, I knew it was going to be a quality/worthwhile drama and was warned beforehand that it takes at least 3 episodes to really get going.

It does pick up more by episode 3, but I didn't become hooked until episode 5. That was the pivotal episode that endeared me to several characters and gave me the bigger picture of where everything was going. My dad couldn't get into it at all until this episode, which prompted him to rewatch the prior four episodes in order to remember details he missed due to being inattentive.

So I would say after watching episode 5, if you still don't care at all about the plot or characters, then this drama truly isn't for you and feel free to drop it. But if you care even a little, I ask that you watch until episode 20 (a very pivotal episode and the culmination of an arc) before deciding whether or not to continue. Hope this helps and happy watching!

No, this series isn't a Wuxia drama even if it does have Wuxia elements. To qualify as a Wuxia drama, the majority of the story should take place in the realm of martial artists (Jianghu) with its various sects/clans, but "Nirvana in Fire's" main plot is strictly set in a kingdom with its princes/nobility squabbling for power. Although characters do interact occasionally with martial artists from the secular realm (Jianghu), that's not enough to label it as Wuxia.

You can only say the world/characters are aware of the martial artists realm and its rules. But any series where the main plot centers around empires with princes and nobility are not Wuxia because there's simply not enough Jianghu involvement to label it as such. Thus, I consider "Nirvana in fire" to be a Historical fiction/political intrigue drama with some Wuxia elements.

I consider dramas like "Word of Honor," "Handsome Siblings," "Demi Gods & Semi Devils," and any of the Condor heroes series to be Wuxia because all of them take place in the secular/martial artists realm and have enough interactions with its sects/fighters.

Yep, fingers crossed that they'll end up resolving everything in a satisfying manner and stick the landing.

It's too rare that we got a drama who's creators are actually interested in telling the story in the novel (instead of just using character names/places to tell their own watered down crap), let alone one where the novel's story has a hot romance as well as nuanced characters. I really don't want the drama to squander all its potential by rushing the ending.

I fell in love with this drama from the first episode because of the quality writing, nuanced characters, and equally strong FL/ML. I also especially loved the slow burn buildup of their relationship: The writing/direction brilliantly built up the tension, making you anticipate their every interaction with bated breath. Sigh...I wish more dramas can execute this successfully. The payoff's only satisfying because of the prior buildup.

Yay, soo happy to hear all the episodes will be out by tomorrow! Me and my sister forced ourselves to hold off on watching the majority of part 2 because we hate waiting like a passion -way too painful!!!

Now our patience will be amply rewarded with so many episodes to binge. I can't wait until sis gets home so we can start watching...hopefully, all our drama issues will be addressed in a satisfying manner and this drama will end up ranking alongside my fearsome three: "Ten Miles...," "Nirvana in Fire," and "Someday or One Day!" Fingers crossed that they'll stick the landing....

Hope you connect with the leads and love it as much as I did!

Also, as a fluent Mandarin speaker, I highly recommend you watch this on youtube under the name "croton media" because the English subtitles there are of higher quality than viki's. Croton Media used the original subs created by Dramafever, a legal Asian drama streaming site that no longer exists. Their English subs for several Cdramas were more professional and poetic than viki's.