leanae

The funny thing is, I've been in Ichiko shoes as well, so her POV makes as much sense to me as Otoyan's. I wonder what I said that made it sound like I thought she was the bigger problem. You said you empathised more with Ichiko, I tried to bring forth a different point for Otoyan. Had you empathised in the other direction, I would have tried to bring forth Ichiko's side.

I don't really see either of them as being at fault or one being more problematic than the other, except maybe when they started lying to each other, but the lies where not the catalyst, their problems started before that.

I didn't say he feared rejection, they showed that he got hurt from the rejections, which led to him being distant (not just appearing).
How they act and react is part of their personalities, otherwise everyone would just act and react the exact same way. I'm not sure I see how you can change one without changing the other.

I didn't spend time thinking "do they want to fix this?" because that was the premise of their story, therefore I was watching with the frame "They are trying to fix it, why doesn't it work?" . I did think about it for Mitsuki's couple, for them it was not obvious at all. At first I was thinking "Does she want to fix it?", then "Do they?", "Can it?", and finally "Wow! They are really trying!". I feel like Shiro changing how he acts , especially towards his son, changes is personality, at least my perception of him. It also feels like he's the one that changes the most among the main characters. If how you act wasn't part of one's personality, it wouldn't make this impact. Shiro's action at the beginning and at the end look like very different characters. I empathised with him the least (not at all), but I like his development the most.

ps: the egg always comes first.

Aha, I was more thinking about my teen self, the one with strong convictions and not a lot of experience about what they really meant.

I don't know why this drama has kept me thinking: "What would my younger self think of this?".

I don't know why this drama has kept me thinking: "What would my younger self think of this?".

But many won't like the story. I think that the subject matter is so alien to some, that it will appear non sensical to them.

If you really want to be spoiled, the answer is no.

And here I am now... 20 mins into ep1. It has more rewatch value than I expected.

On the other hand... from reading other commenters, previous episodes seem to provoque some intense negative reaction.
"Do I want to watch this from the beginning or stay happy and move on to the next one?" Maybe.

After thinking a bit about it, I'll try to phrase it differently.
There's a major difference in personality between Otoyan and Ichiko, she's social while he'srather introverted/asocial (not antisocial) . She has friends, he doesn't, and his colleagues are critical of him. He seems to prefer spending some time alone when he can. Her way to resolves thing is by sharing, his is by introspection. For unconsequential subjects, it was fine, but when a serious and private matter arose, their way of dealing things were at odds.

I think if you watch the first 6, you might end up wanting to rewatch the 7th and feel like it's almost a different episode than when you first watched it. There may be a thing or 2 that will hit different, but I think they will still hit.

I feel a bit naive now, but I saw Rei as slowly falling in love with an impassible Ichiko, so he stopped being an escort and tried to be "normal" in order to give himself the best chances, but since he's young, most of his experience was probably in "escort mode", so he doesn't really know yet how to be different or turn it off, even when he's not an escort anymore.

Well, take it from someone who, felt the need and tried to move out for a while to think things through, try a different approach, but couldn't because my partner reacted so negatively when we I brought up the subject that I gave up, ultimately, I just felt trapped and ended up with resentment, and it imploded. The scenes with Otoyan at the Lavomatic, I was watching with envy and regret. You see someone who constantly distance himself, I see someone who each time we see him try to get closer, he get rejected. Rejected for reasons I completely empathize with and understand, but it hurts nonetheless. And when he manages to find some happiness, gets reprimanded for it. "You don't want me, and you don't want to see me being happy".

After reading your other comments, I don't think there's much we'll agree on, yours and others. But still, it's very interesting to see such a different point of view on this drama, so thank you for sharing.

I've been both Ichiko and Otoyan in some aspects and have been with some version of both as well. I've never seen a show that's so close to my personal history, so when people argue about them it feels like they're talking about me... And I want to say "No! That's not what happened!". I'm probably projecting a LOT more than what's been shown or said. haha. Now I feel like an Unreliable Commenter.

Ichiko can sometimes be an "Unreliable Narrator". It's showcased in moments like in parts of their coversation when they go camping. It also shows how Otoyan has an almost perfect recall so, for past memories, I more enclined to believe Otoyan's recall, to which she even agrees that it was horrible. It's also said by different people that she can be a bit too honest and blunt, so it seems Otoyan had good reasons to take what she said at face value.

The rift started there, not because of what was said, but because of how the moment was perceived. Each time they tried to bring up the subject (they must have done it at least one more time to set up their rules) they probably thought they were talking about the same thing while they were not, increasing misunderstanding. I think Ichiko sayd at some point to a friend that because of some misplaced pride or ego she couldn't/wouldn't come back on their agreement or tell Otoyan that it was hurting her. And for him, that rejection was painful, so he too probably never really wanted to bring that up. It wasn't until they compared notes about how it started that they could really talk about it.

(Spoiler for the flowers at the end) The cape jasmin symbolize the spiritual journey of self-discovery and transformation. He didn't arrange and bring them almost raw to their home probably as a metaphore: he want to do it (the journey) with Ichiko.