AH

The End of the 40 Lashes Scene and the Subsequent Scene in Chapter 2

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Another twenty lashes were delivered and Xiao Liu’s entire back was covered in blood and he was in excruciating pain. Xiang Liu coldly looked at him and asked, “Any more conditions?”

Xiao Liu was covered in sweat and his mouth was bleeding so he couldn’t say a full sentence. “You… can kill me, but I… still… have one condition.” Xiang Liu smiled with a corner of his mouth and said, “Say it!”

“I….I won’t leave Qing Shui Town.” Xiao Liu understood that Xiang Liu was interested in his ability to make poison and as long as he didn’t leave Qing Shui Town then Xiang Liu couldn’t send him to kill the Xuan Yuan generals and officers. Nor could he send him to kill Gao Xing nobles and royals. Xiang Liu seemed to understand Xiao Liu’s thinking and just stared at him without any expression.

Xiao Liu had been acting a coward this entire time but this time he didn’t back down and looked at Xiang Liu straight back. The meaning was clear: if Xiang Liu didn’t agree to this condition, then kill him now. After a moment, Xiang Liu said, “Fine!”

Xiao Liu breathed a sigh of relief and then collapsed.

Xiao Liu was dragged by the soldiers back into Xiang Liu’s tent and the army doctor removed his clothes and put medicine on his back. Xiang Liu stood at the door of the tent and coldly observed. Xiao Liu laid on a wooden board and docilely allowed the army doctor to minister to him.

When the medicine was applied and everyone left, Xiang Liu said to Xiao Liu, “Make whatever concoction I ask of you. All other times you can continue being your healer in Qing Shui Town. But when I summon you, you must obey immediately.”

“Fine, but it’s like not I will be able to make whatever my lord asks.”

“If you can’t, then you can exchange with your body.”

“Huh?” Xiao Liu never imagined Xiang Liu would like men and carefully said, “My lord is handsome beyond compare. It’s not that I don’t want to service you but…”

Xiang Liu smirked and lifted his foot and stepped on Xiao Liu’s wound slowly until blood started to seep out. “If you can’t make one, then use a part of your body in exchange. The first time, your ears. The second time, your nose…” Xiang Liu upped the pressure. “Don’t worry, I won’t cut off your hands. You need them to make the concoctions.”

Xiao Liu was in so much pain he writhed. “I….I understand.”

Xiang Liu pulled his foot back and wiped the blood away on Xiao Liu’s robe. “You are as slippery as an eel: one moment of not paying attention and all that is left is mud. But my personality, you should go ask around.”

Xiao Liu snarked, “I don’t need to ask around to figure it out.”

Supernova, for the first part of your comment, I'm afraid you are mixing up the order of events. Xiang Liu agreed to Wen Xiao Liu's one condition (that she not be required to leave QS town) after the 40 lashes were administered and before the back-stepping occurred.

After Xiang Liu agreed to Wen Xiao Liu's condition, she collapsed. She was dragged back into Xiang Liu's tent (she was questioned in the tent the night before and she and Xiang Liu both slept in the tent overnight, but she was taken outside for the lashings), where a doctor from the remnant army treated her wounds while Xiang Liu observed. Then Xiang Liu and Wen Xiao Liu discussed the terms of their arrangement after the doctor left. In that conversation, Wen Xiao Liu says that she might not be able to make every kind of poison that Xiang Liu requests and (after misinterpreting Xiang Liu's response) makes a suggestive comment. Xiang Liu takes this as Wen Xiao Liu being "slippery" (the word Xiang Liu uses later in the scene) again to try to get out of complying with Xiang Liu's orders, which prompts Xiang Liu to step on her wounds and to say the line that you quoted. All of that (watching the doctor treat her wounds, discussing terms, and stepping on her back) occurs after Xiang Liu agreed to Wen Xiao Liu's condition that he won't ask her to leave QS town.

I'll copy the excerpt in a comment below under a spoiler cover, as it is a bit long.

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For the second part of your comment, I invite you to re-read my comment and ask that if you are going to use quotes to suggest that I've said something, that you quote me with the appropriate context. I said, "Although Xiang Liu showed some mercy by not having her executed, he was not going to treat Wen Xiao Liu (who still hadn't admitted her true identity) with kid gloves."

Perhaps you are not familiar with the phrase "treat X with kid gloves"? It means to handle something delicately, often due to a perceived sensitivity. So I very clearly said that only the decision not to execute Wen Xiao Liu showed some mercy, and that Xiang Liu did not treat Wen Xiao Liu delicately with his subsequent actions.

As an aside, I don't see how Xiang Liu knowing Wen Xiao Liu was a woman is relevant to assessing whether Xiang Liu was or wasn't merciful in this chapter. Not executing someone who was behaving like a spy showed some mercy, whether the suspicious person was a man or a woman. I agree that the lashes were harsh and the back-stepping in particular was cruel. The back-stepping is a moment that never fails to make me uncomfortable when I re-read the novel. But I don't think the lashes or the back-stepping are made worse because they were done to a woman (in a man's body). And I don't think either of those things could be framed as merciful if they were done to a man (in a man's body) instead.

Per his promise to the real Fang Feng Bei, Xiang Liu spent four years caring for the mother of the real Fang Feng Bei during her illness before she died. He was a good and caring son to her, and his family members all described him as filial because of it, even hundreds of years later (and despite Fang Feng Bei's reputation as a rake). Xiang Liu told Xiao Yao that he felt like he got the better end of the deal that he made with the original Fang Feng Bei, as (in addition to getting Fang Feng Bei's spiritual power) he got to experience the unconditional love of a mother.

Xiang Liu spent 100 years living as Feng Feng Bei before he reunited with Hong Jiang and joined the Chenrong remnant army. Even after he joined the remnant army, he spent part of his time maintaining his second identity as Fang Feng Bei for another 300 years before he met Wen Xiao Liu. When he was Fang Feng Bei, Xiang Liu kept up the original Fang Feng Bei’s reputation as a rake - he gambled, spent lots of time with women, and partied with friends with similar habits. He learned to be very good at interacting with and charming women, and he was clearly confident and comfortable around them.

When Xiang Liu reunited with Hong Jiang (300 years before Xiang Liu met Wen Xiao Liu), they formed such a close relationship that Hong Jiang adopted Xiang Liu as his son. As Xiao Yao comes to realize, when Xiang Liu originally joined the Chenrong remnant army, he was planning to pay back his debt to Hong Jiang. But over time they (Hong Jiang and Xiang Liu) became so close that paying back the debt became irrelevant because Xiang Liu's choice to fight with the remnant army was now motivated by true loyalty and affection rather than a feeling of obligation to repay a debt. So Xiang Liu was not only capable of developing close relationships with other people, he had done so hundreds of years before meeting Wen Xiao Liu.

Xiang Liu also developed a strong sense of loyalty and brotherhood with his fellow soldiers. After hundreds of years of battle, he attended many funerals, personally cremated hundreds of his men, and would have spent many nights singing and drinking in memory of the fallen. Being around people experiencing difficult feelings (e.g., sadness, grief or a sense of hopelessness) would have been familiar territory for him.

And as we see in the middle and later parts of S1, Xiang Liu is actually very good at comforting Xiao Yao and distracting her from her loneliness and heartache. He will do more of that in S2 (in the episode that adapts chapter 35 of the novel).

Given all of that, why was Xiang Liu so awkward on the occasions when he reached out to touch Xiao Yao in comfort or affection in the early episodes of S1?

Perhaps it was the first time he had developed real romantic feelings (rather than shallow feelings of mere attraction motivated by the fun of flirtation and physical desire or platonic feelings of love for a mother, a father, or brothers in arms) for someone, and the awkwardness came from him trying to figure out how to deal with those feelings as much as it came from wanting (but not knowing how) to comfort someone or show a bit of affection to someone (especially someone he had those types of feelings for).

After you've finished S1, come back and read the next comment.

You're welcome ^^

Glad I could help :)

Great point. That would have been an excellent way to help viewers understand that Wen Xiao Liu's form is the form of a man who looks completely different from Xiao Yao, rather than just Xiao Yao dressing up as a man.

You're welcome ^^

Yes, the fact that they use YZ to play Wen Xiao Liu instead of using a male actor is understandably very confusing for viewers who aren't familiar with the novel. It makes it seem like Xiao Yao is just cross dressing (while still looking very much like a woman dressed as a man) and using a male name, when she has actually transformed her body into a man's body and her transformation is seamless. Not even the most powerful deity or demon can tell that her male Wen Xiao Liu form is not her true form just by looking at her.

For a long time only Ye Shi Qi and Xiang Liu know that Wen Xiao Liu's male form is a false form and that she is actually a woman who has transformed herself into a man. And Wen Xiao Liu doesn't know that they know for a long time. She finds out that Xiang Liu knows she's a woman in episode 10 (but it's not as clear as it was in the novel). She finds out that Ye Shi Qi knows that her face isn't her real face in episode 13 (although iirc it's also not addressed as clearly as it was in the novel). She finds out that Ye Shi Qi knows that she is a woman in episode 14.

I've set out some context and clarifications below if you want them.

40 LASHES

In episode 3, Wen Xiao Liu knowingly trespassed on the Chenrong remnant army's territory. Before he captured her, Xiang Liu knew that Wen Xiao Liu's male form was a false form because she was able to successfully lure out the Fei Fei with her song (which only women can do). Before she was captured, Wen Xiao Liu also poisoned Xiang Liu's condor (Chubby) and tried to poison Xiang Liu in order to avoid being captured. After she was captured, she insisted she was a man named Wen Xiao Liu (which Xiang Liu knew was a lie - because he knew she was a woman).

After the scene where Xiang Liu questions Wen Xiao Liu, the drama shows us a scene where Xuan instructs one of his men to investigate the spies in the remnant army. Later on we see that Xuan sent many spies to infiltrate the remnant army, and those spies tried to kill Xiang Liu. IMO, that scene is included to remind us viewers that Xiang Liu had good reason to be suspicious of anyone who trespassed on the remnant army's territory in disguise, especially someone who was a poison master (Xiang Liu noted that Xiyan's poison experts had tried and failed to poison Chubby before - and yet Wen Xiao Liu was able to do it successfully) who refused to reveal their true identity even under the threat of death.

When Wen Xiao Liu refused to reveal her true (female) identity, Xiang Liu could have had her executed as a suspected spy. But her words convinced Xiang Liu to spare her life. So Xiang Liu told Wen Xiao Liu that she could live if she agreed to work for him, and he gave her a night to think about it. In the morning, Wen Xiao Liu stalled and wouldn't give Xiang Liu an answer. Although Xiang Liu showed some mercy by not having her executed, he was not going to treat Wen Xiao Liu (who still hadn't admitted her true identity) with kid gloves. So when Wen Xiao Liu tried to stall, Xiang Liu had his men give her 20 lashes. When she tried to impose several conditions on her cooperation, he had his men give her 20 more lashes. But when it was clear that Wen Xiao Liu was prepared to die unless Xiang Liu agreed to her most important condition, Xiang Liu listened to and agreed to her condition.


WEN XIAO LIU MAKING POISONS

After Wen Xiao Liu poisoned Chubby, Xiang Liu asked her for the antidote to her poison so he could revive Chubby. After Xiang Liu spared Wen Xiao Liu's life on the condition that she work for him, he did not ask her to make antidotes for him. He asked her to make poisons for him. Wen Xiao Liu initially believed that Xiang Liu wanted to use those poisons against his enemies (so she intentionally created poisons that were useless for that purpose), but she later realized that Xiang Liu was consuming the poisons himself as (rather than hurting him) they increased his power.

The fact that her poisons had no effect on Xiang Liu greatly annoyed Wen Xiao Liu. She took it as a personal challenge. She was convinced that she could poison anyone, even Xiang Liu, and put significant effort into creating the deadliest poisons she could for him. Despite her efforts, Xiang Liu continued to be unharmed, and he was even pleased with the poisons. He told Wen Xiao Liu that was why he brought a gift to Pimply's wedding.

Although Wen Xiao Liu was really trying to poison Xiang Liu, she also found herself revealing things to Xiang Liu that she had never revealed to anyone else. And after she admitted that she was afraid of being lonely, Xiang Liu started to visit Wen Xiao Liu occasionally (seemingly for no reason).


WEN XIAO LIU BEING CONFRONTED BY AH NIAN AND XUAN

The "sister/brother" you mentioned are Xuan the wine merchant (who is really Prince Cang Xuan of Xiyan) and Ah Nian (who is really the second princess of Haoling). Cang Xuan and Ah Nian are not blood relatives. Cang Xuan grew up in Haoling (ostensibly as a political hostage, but it was really a means of protecting himself from his scheming uncles) and considers the King of Haoling (Xiao Yao's father) to be his Shifu. Like Xiao Yao, Ah Nian is the King of Haoling's daughter. Since Cang Xuan cannot treat Xiao Yao well (due to her disappearance) he treats Ah Nian (Xiao Yao's half sister) well in Xiao Yao's place. (Just to be more confusing... the King of Haoling is not actually Xiao Yao's biological father, so Ah Nian is not actually Xiao Yao's biological half-sister).

When Hai Tang (Ah Nian's maid / bodyguard) tormented Lao Mu in episode 4, Wen Xiao Liu poisoned her. Ah Nian brought Xuan with her when she came to confront Wen Xiao Liu to get the antidote for the poison that was afflicting Hai Tang. Wen Xiao Liu asked Ye Shi Qi if he would help her, and he confirmed that he would. Wen Xiao Liu's plan was to let Ye Shi Qi defend her from Xuan's attack long enough for Wen Xiao Liu to see what type of power Xuan used, so she would know which poison to use on him. But Ye Shi Qi did not defend Wen Xiao Liu as expected. Xuan easily defeated Wen Xiao Liu, and Wen Xiao Liu was angry at herself for relying on someone else (Ye Shi Qi) rather than just relying on herself (the way she always had up to that point).


XIANG LIU AND WEN XIAO LIU FLY AWAY AT THE END OF EPISODE 4

Remember how I said that Xiang Liu started to visit Wen Xiao Liu (seemingly for no apparent reason) after Wen Xiao Liu told him that she was afraid of being lonely, and that a temporary companion would do if she couldn't find a life-long companion? Perhaps Xiang Liu was curious about her (he said that he was curious about her later in the novel) and perhaps he wanted to keep her company for a bit to alleviate her loneliness. This is much clearer in the novel, which describes Xiang Liu visiting the clinic occasionally after Pimply's wedding to eat snacks and drink wine (which Wen Xiao Liu poisoned). The drama only shows Xiang Liu attending Pimply's wedding, and doesn't show his subsequent visits to the clinic.

But Xiang Liu also picked Wen Xiao Liu up for excursions on Chubby. Sometimes he had a clear agenda, and sometimes he didn't. One such excursion is shown in the drama, at the end of episode 4. Wen Xiao Liu was upset after Ye Shi Qi betrayed and abandoned her. Xiang Liu took her away on Chubby and the two of them chatted. Wen Xiao Liu's emotions led her to jump from Chubby into the lake below, and later to challenge Xiang Liu to a swimming race. Wen Xiao Liu loves swimming, and the race cheered her up immensely even though she lost. To reward him for winning the race, Wen Xiao Liu roasted a fish for Xiang Liu. But she also teased him about his nine-heads - a very sensitive topic for Xiang Liu. As a warning, Xiang Liu bit Wen Xiao Liu's neck and drank her blood. To his surprise, he discovered that her blood had special properties. Xiang Liu's body is unusual. Poisons don't harm him, but most medicines also don't help him. And yet Wen Xiao Liu's blood could increase his spiritual power and heal his wounds.

Wen Xiao Liu's blood had special properties because of certain foods and drinks that she consumed during the 70 years that she lived on Jade Mountain. Her blood may also have been affected by the measures taken by the nine-tailed fox that kept her captive for 30 years (not Ye Shi Qi, but one of his distant relatives). During that time, the nine tailed fox gave Wen Xiao Liu (who was just Xiao Yao back then) concoctions that caused her high spiritual power to seep into her blood so it would be easier for the nine tailed fox to consume (leaving her with low spiritual powers).

For the purposes of the drama, there's evidence for yes (they are blood-related) and evidence for no (they aren't blood-related), so you can decide which version you prefer.

https://kisskh.at/discussions/lost-you-forever/120191-are-cang-xuan-and-xiao-yao-blood-relatives-in-the-drama

But major spoilers ahead (stop reading if you don't want to know whether there is romance between XY and CX)... CX's romantic feelings for XY are unrequited (XY only loves CX as a brother) and they will not end up together.

That's a really good example that helps show how a certain context can make objectively not-okay behaviour forgivable, in both directions.

In episode 7, QL believed that the JXY in front of him had stolen the body of his JXY. That hadn't been proven beyond a shadow of a doubt, but he had good reason to believe it. In that context, QL choked JXY, threatened her, and forced her into his car. QL didn't leave any lasting physical injuries on JXY, but JXY understandably felt deeply hurt and betrayed. She was furious with QL for a while, but eventually she forgave him (after he stopped treating her so harshly), IMO in part because she understood how he viewed her (as an enemy and a threat to someone he cared about) and why he viewed her that way at the time.

In episode 17, JXY wasn't sure what to believe, but in a circumstance where she felt like she had to choose between believing HBY (who said that her life as a daughter of the Jiang Group was real, and this world was a virtual reality game where QL was a nefarious virus) and believing QL (who said he wanted to help her get home to her world so he could get his JXY back) she chose to believe HBY. So she attacked QL with a brick from behind while he was fighting with HBY. Objectively, she did not need to do that. It was not a justified act of violence, and QL was shocked and hurt (emotionally as well as physically) by the betrayal. The wound she inflicted was severe enough that it still hadn't healed by episode 22 and it might even have contributed to QL collapsing and needing to be hospitalized. But QL didn't hold JXY's actions against her. Even before he found out about the memory replacement, the experiment and how it affected HBY and JXY, QL could see that JXY was struggling to deal with reality and her identity crisis. He knew that she viewed him as a virus (a threat) at that point and understood how she came to view him that way. IMO, QL's awareness of why JXY behaved the way she did made it easy for him to forgive her completely.

Agreed.

Yeah I get how the two of them ending up together after his behaviour could be a “big no” for a lot of people. That point of view makes more sense to me than people acting like his behaviour wasn’t a problem at all, or implying that he should be forgiven for acting that way because of his difficult childhood.

As for QL acting “under an unproven assumption, that "mind swap" can even happen”, I don’t blame him for believing what JXY told him about the mind / body swap at that point. In addition to JXY confessing the “truth” (as she viewed it at the time) and reminding QL about it, it explained JXY’s behaviour from the moment they reunited, and the phones / message board posts were additional evidence. After finding out the actual truth we can look back in retrospect and blame QL for believing JXY despite the fact that her words hadn’t been proven beyond a shadow of a doubt, but that seems like a rather unfair and unrealistic standard to hold him to.

I agree that JXY didn’t do anything wrong / anything that merited being treated like that. But I also get that once QL believed that JXY wasn’t the JXY that he knew and trusted in high school, she became someone he had no reason to trust. In his eyes, she seemed like someone who had stolen his JXY’s body. To him, she seemed like a bad guy who had done something wrong and who might cause further harm to his JXY.

“violence is never an excusable option.” That I don’t agree with. When HBY tried to kill JXY (by throwing her off the roof and later by trying to convince her to commit suicide) and hurt QL, I think QL was justified when he used violence to fight HBY. And when QL choked HBY and threatened him to try to get information about XJY and the lighthouse system… I mean it was maybe illegal but IMO it wasn’t inexcusable. And when QL used his legs to choke FXX (and almost killed her), it was self-defence, so a justified use of violence and not illegal.

“But I just cannot stand any form of unjustified violence. It just shows true character of the person, and at least for me, there is rarely a redemption for a person once they choose violent route when it just wasn't needed.”

I get that. I agree that even if everything he believed at that point was true, QL still didn’t need to choke JXY in that scene and it was wrong of him to do so (although the way the actor did it was so obviously not actual choking that it removed some of the awfulness of it for me). It also seems like QL got into a lot of fights that weren’t necessary when he was in high school, so it’s a pattern of behaviour rather than a one-off. But for me he didn’t go so far astray that he could never be redeemed. And for context there have been plenty of popular dramas with MLs that I couldn’t forgive because they did go too far and didn’t redeem themselves.

Agreed. It would be nice to see a better quality adaptation of Once Promised with continuity between it and LYF. But I’m not sure a faithful adaptation could be made in the current censorship environment. What I really want is a full translation of Once Promised.

iirc, Xuan Yang = Xuan Yuan / Xiyan, Xuan Mu = Sheng Nong / Chenrong, and Ling Yun = Gao Xing / Haoling.

Good to know ^^

"Lost You Forever" the drama is based on the novel "Lost You Forever" (that's the English title, which is different from the Mandarin title) by Tong Hua, which is a sequel to her novel "Once Promised". The drama "A Lifetime of Love" is based on Once Promised. However, A Lifetime of Love was created by a different production team and a completely different set of actors. It’s not just that the names for the same places and the same characters are different between the two productions. Because the two dramas are not affiliated, there is no attempt in Lost You Forever (the drama) to create continuity with plot points in A Lifetime of Love.

For example, in A Lifetime of Love, Mu Qing Mo / Xuanyang Chuo (who is based on Princess Xuan Yuan Ba / Ah Heng in the novels) is very clearly the biological daughter of King Xuanyang (the Yellow Emperor of Xuan Yuan in the novels). That is consistent with the novels. However, in Lost You Forever the drama, the production team changed certain details from the novels to make it seem like Ah Heng is not the King of Xiyan’s biological daughter (so that Xiao Yao and Cang Xuan would not be cousins by blood).

Didn’t YZ mention something a long time ago about S2 hopefully airing after the winter holidays? The national public holiday for lunar new year will run from February 10 to February 17 this year.

I found some aspects of the romance to be very good (I tend to like this type of ride-or-die ML and in many scenes the leads have great chemistry), but IMO many of the moments between the leads that should have been the most romantic and intimate (e.g., kiss scenes, proposals, etc.) were disappointing and negatively impacted their chemistry.

The ending is happy, but a bit boring compared to some of the more intense parts of the drama.

I can understand why some viewers were super turned off by QL's behaviour in episode 7 when he finally came to believe that the JXY with him at that point really wasn't his JXY. Under normal circumstances, if a man chokes a woman, manhandles and threatens her, or forces her into a car against her will, the woman should prosecute the man, file a restraining order against him, hopefully never see him again, and definitely not ever let him become someone who could be her romantic partner in the future. The same would also be true if the roles were reversed.

If I were in JXY's position, I'm not sure that I would be able to forgive QL. But given the full context of both the circumstances in that episode and their relationship as a whole, I can understand why JXY was able to eventually forgive him and to even fall in love with him again later on.

In that episode, QL didn't think that the JXY in front of him was his JXY. He thought this person was something horrific. A parasitic soul that had stolen his JXY's body from his JXY. He thought she was someone who threatened his JXY's very existence, which made this person enemy #1 to him. On top of that, he was dealing with the perception that he had lost his JXY all over again, and he probably felt extremely guilty for treating this JXY so well up to this point and for not realizing the "truth" sooner (especially since JXY had already outright told him that she wasn't his JXY). He wanted to protect and do right by his JXY, and he channeled those feelings into physically and verbally threatening this other person that he believed had taken over his JXY's body (and for the record, JXY also believed that she was a different person from another world who had taken over his JXY's body). And that situation seems, to me, to be very different from any kind of real-life domestic abuse situation I can think of.

On top of all that, through the flashbacks in episode 19 and 20, we find out that the ML used intimidation and physical violence to protect his JXY from others who tried to harm her for years. In fact, that was the original foundation of their relationship and the reason JXY approached him in the first place.

Does the context make QL's behaviour okay? Objectively, it does not. In the eyes of the law he could absolutely still be prosecuted for his actions and even if he could reveal the context it wouldn't serve as an acceptable defense for what he did. But subjectively? While the context doesn't exactly make his behaviour "okay", I can see how it could potentially make his behaviour forgivable... and I can see how it could allow JXY to eventually forgive QL for the way he treated her in that episode.

I view QL's behaviour in the first few episodes in a similar light. The way he kept tabs on JXY and followed her around even after she told him to stop? That's stalking, which is a crime and objectively not okay behaviour. However, as the viewers and JXY later find out, QL is completely devoted to his role as JXY's protector. He needs to know that she's okay, and if she isn't okay then he has to do something about it to make sure that she is okay. Although that context doesn't make stalking okay (and it made me almost as uncomfortable as his behviour in episode 7), I can understand why JXY didn't end up holding it against QL later, given the circumstances.

Thanks for adding it! ^^

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