I have to say: the ladies are killing it here.Major props to the putative evil/badass females here:1. YeCeLeng's…
The fact that those ladies are actually adults/mature females in the source novel compared to younger females commonly found in other Wuxia stories probably helped.
Short answer: You're right, C-dramas should try to cast actors who can speak clearly in their own voices. Fortunately there are signs they moving towards that direction now in new productions.
Broader perspective: With a few exceptions, no cast in any long drama productions of any nationality can rely purely using on-stage recording without utilizing at least partial (re)dubbing of dialogues (but for C-dramas they are often dubbed by different persons from the onscreen actors).
Even for current Hollywood and UK dramas, on average about 10% of on-site dialogs need to be re-recorded/redub by the actors involved. The difference is that the expertise in the West is so good that audience frequently can’t tell apart what's recorded on-site versus dubbed in a recording studio (that’s why they give out Oscars to ADR editors and re-recording mixers). Hollywood’s score ranged from 2% re-recorded dialogues with thespian cast in Oscar winning movie for ‘Shakespeare in Love’ to films can be nominated for Best Sound in Oscar even though 40% of its dialogue has to be re-recorded/dubbed (Contact - in 1998).
Noted I used the 2 movies as examples because they contained stats that are quoted by the Oscar winning editors who worked on them and can be verified. Obviously it's more difficult for 60 episodes C-dramas with tight schedule and budget to match that level of professional in sound and dialogue. But in the few cases where they do on-site recording properly with a cast that can enunciate well, the performance is no worse than anyone else.
Li Yitong's dialogues in Bloody Romance is her natural voice recorded on-site. Only about 4% of her dialogues needed by re-recorded/dubbed by herself in post-production. The same production team filmed Glory of the Special Forces, so it's onsite recording there too. In Royal Nirvana, like everyone else she dubbed her own voice.
Her character, Zhang Sun Qian Xue is supposed to be over 40 years old (source novel). Among the reasons for the producer's choice of ZSQX's dubbed voice, I think that’s the most relevant.
Some might be confused by certain plot events in EP16 and following episodes which ended up with a number of people…
Deleted scenes and background info: Prime Minister Li Baizhou schemed to postpone the Palace Exam (the final exam which take place after the Spring Exams in early episodes).
The Assembly of the Officials lead by Lu Ying was unaware that the exam has been postponed and their arrival for petition to Emperor coincide with the Palace Exam being held.
The officials (scholars) are accused of intefering with Palace Exam and provoked by the other faction presented. A scuffle broke out on Palace grounds. Some of the scholars protested by leaving their seats and quitting the exam.
Because Lu Wen Pu (female lead's brother) was the first to quit, he was arrested by Prince of Qi even though he is not an offical (this deleted scene is mentioned in later episodes)
Count Gu Feng En was presented at the Palace Exam. Because a scholar has to abstain from physical violence he disrobed his scholar robes and roughly handled an official from the opposing faction. He also grabbed a sword. (deleted scenes). Because of his actions he was stripped of his exam results and is barred from sitting Imperial exams for life.
Lu Shi Yu took his own life because someone has to be hold accountable for the Palace Exam fiasco and hence his final speech to the Emperor referenced 'the scholars are under Your protection' and tearing up the petition name list.
Some might be confused by certain plot events in EP16 and following episodes which ended up with a number of people being arrested. This is due to some scenes being BANNED had to be cut and reedit to get thru the censors. The reason for that is not explained but I believe because Chinese authority feel that it bear 'certain resemblance' to the confrontation that occurred near the Hong Kong PolyU in late November 2019. Due to unfortunate timing, the series premiered near these dates. This also probably explained why Youku delayed the release of some episodes from their original schedule.
[Some of the deleted scenes shown scholars (students) quitting exam in protest and one of them took up a sword after disrobing his scholar (student) garment.]
I posted description of some of the deleted scenes in my spoiler below. Also, I will be away for about 2 weeks tomorrow, so if anyone has further questions on this please ask now or wait for a fortnight :)
Can someone confirm if Jia Yibo is Gu Feng'en's courtesy name? I really wish Viki gets the license of the series.…
Jia Yi Bo (嘉义伯) is an aristocracy title and rank. His father's corresponding title is Wu De Hou. 'Bo' is Feng En's royal rank. European nobility have different ranks/names so for example, Jia Yi Bo could be translated as the 'The Beautiful and Righteous Count' (Count is not a nobility rank for England, so we can also use 'Earl')
I did not completely get the plots involving the scroll..but it was more understandable than the exam cheating…
Yes, you are right the PM didn't start the trap but Crown Prince DQ did as a preventive strike. DQ's move to frame the PM backfired badly since the PM has an alibi (room numbers got changed) and spring it as a trap back against DQ.
I did not completely get the plots involving the scroll..but it was more understandable than the exam cheating…
I believe the English subtitles for its conclusion in EP7 are not out yet at time of writing? The Examination Fiasco is a trap engineered by PM Li Bai Zhou ... Edit: Argh, I should have got some sleep first before I wrote the above. I know what the Crown Prince feels now ;) My assumption was Xu Changping (the other candidate) was working for the PM, but it is not be the case. So the PM didn't start the trap, but he was a better weiqi (go) player than the Prince and converted a dangerous 'atari' situation to live 'eyes' and outmatched the Crown Prince.
I did not completely get the plots involving the scroll..but it was more understandable than the exam cheating…
@sweetaneng: Crown Prince Ding Quan (DQ) simply wrote a scroll of good wishes/blessings. At the ceremony he told a white lie to the Emperor it was his brother's way of congratulating him (to explain the event of a scroll dropping from the palace wall which he thought would happened afterwards).
DQ's intention was that no one would be hurt - his father would be delighted by the display of 'fraternity goodwill' between the brothers and he reasoned that Prince Ding Tang would keep this mouth shut because his scroll plan has failed.
Unbeknowst to DQ, the scroll plan is a decoy right from the start - the actual trap from start is Supervisor Zhang would fell from the wall with an incriminating handkerchief since it's far more damaging than any scroll written by a third-party.
Later when the partial burnt scroll of good wishes was recovered the Emperor realized the Crown Prince's original intention was indeed good. --- People in Examination Fiasco: Baron Gu Fengen (candidate) is the DQ's cousin from his mother's side. They are very close friends. Lu Shi Yu (chief examiner) is DQ's teacher. Lu is like a surrogate father to DQ. He was an official since the days of the previous Emperor (DQ's grandfather). Lu Wen Pu (candidate) is Lu Wen Xi's brother. Their father is Lu Ying (see EP01), a senior student of Lu Shi Yu and picked by him as successor (future counselor) of the Crown Prince.
I wonder if everyone who watched the first 4 episodes manages to catch the full intricacies of the 'Plot of the Scrolls' - some events are not 'coincidence' but premediated moves set in a trap within a trap. The victim countered with a successful gambit but for reason of his own, opted for an unexpected outcome. Hint: The plot started prior to someone writing 'Lack of filial piety as a son' on a scroll using water instead of ink. It ended when a different scroll was found.
In the examination fiasco of EP4 to 7, a different trap within a trap was sprung...
Can you share a link to the Astro Shuang Xing channel do not seem to be able to find that one, maybe a problem…
Astro is pay-TV with encrypted video streams that can be watched through a legitimate decoder (which I have) or you can try to find sites which store decoded recordings of their shows (not exactly legal).
For those asking about quality of English subtitles, I watched episode 2 again to compare two versions from different platforms against the native Mandarin dialogue.
Here's my ratings for the English subs: 7.5/10 for Youtube (others said Amazon Prime has the same English subtitles) 9.5/10 for Astro Shuang Xing channel
As others have said here, the English subs on Youtube and some platforms are identical, as they are provided by the production company. The Astro version wins on clarity, better overall accuracy and synchronization of the subtitle to speech on screen.
Some examples (no spoilers): 'Lady Zhang' (Youtube) vs 'Supervisor Zhang' (Astro) 'Shangfu department' (Youtube) vs 'Bureau of Attire' (Astro) 'died of biting of...' (Youtube) vs 'bite...' (Astro) - there's no death on screen or reference to it in the actual speech In one case, Youtube used a subtitle placeholder '[Delivering the commencement address]' while Astro translated the full speech in formal English.
There's several instances however when the Youtube version is more accurate: eg: When Emperor asked someone to :- 'plead guilty' (Youtube) vs 'apologise' (Astro) in court. IMO, 'confess your wrongdoing' would be a better translation here.
I have the experience of doing English subs for several episodes of other period C-dramas before and know the efforts involved. So I applauded Astro's subtitling team for doing a good job so far.
Just a nit but the unmistakeably NIF like violin background music I really wish they wouldn't have done...
That’s interesting, I didn’t have time to check thru NIF again to hear whether it is a remix as you said but the composer for NIF is Meng Ke while the composer for Royal Nirvana is Roc Chen. Both are famous Chinese composers in their own rights.
Meng Ke is responsible for music used in most of Daylight Entertainment’s works (production company of NIF 1 and 2) while Roc Chen is more international oriented with over 150 past projects in China, US and India.
I talked a bit about Roc Chen past works last year at the Ever Night comments section - after his work in Ever Night he did the soundtracks for two of China’s blockbuster films in 2019 - one of which is The Wandering Earth.
Anyway, the link below should give information of what choices of platforms readers have to watch the show in their respective areas: Overseas markets snap up Chinese TV series 'Royal Nirvana': http://www.china.org.cn/arts/2019-11/15/content_75411981.htm
Broader perspective:
With a few exceptions, no cast in any long drama productions of any nationality can rely purely using on-stage recording without utilizing at least partial (re)dubbing of dialogues (but for C-dramas they are often dubbed by different persons from the onscreen actors).
Even for current Hollywood and UK dramas, on average about 10% of on-site dialogs need to be re-recorded/redub by the actors involved. The difference is that the expertise in the West is so good that audience frequently can’t tell apart what's recorded on-site versus dubbed in a recording studio (that’s why they give out Oscars to ADR editors and re-recording mixers).
Hollywood’s score ranged from 2% re-recorded dialogues with thespian cast in Oscar winning movie for ‘Shakespeare in Love’ to films can be nominated for Best Sound in Oscar even though 40% of its dialogue has to be re-recorded/dubbed (Contact - in 1998).
Noted I used the 2 movies as examples because they contained stats that are quoted by the Oscar winning editors who worked on them and can be verified.
Obviously it's more difficult for 60 episodes C-dramas with tight schedule and budget to match that level of professional in sound and dialogue. But in the few cases where they do on-site recording properly with a cast that can enunciate well, the performance is no worse than anyone else.
The same production team filmed Glory of the Special Forces, so it's onsite recording there too.
In Royal Nirvana, like everyone else she dubbed her own voice.
Among the reasons for the producer's choice of ZSQX's dubbed voice, I think that’s the most relevant.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJ-9xi3j79A
Prime Minister Li Baizhou schemed to postpone the Palace Exam (the final exam which take place after the Spring Exams in early episodes).
The Assembly of the Officials lead by Lu Ying was unaware that the exam has been postponed and their arrival for petition to Emperor coincide with the Palace Exam being held.
The officials (scholars) are accused of intefering with Palace Exam and provoked by the other faction presented. A scuffle broke out on Palace grounds.
Some of the scholars protested by leaving their seats and quitting the exam.
Because Lu Wen Pu (female lead's brother) was the first to quit, he was arrested by Prince of Qi even though he is not an offical (this deleted scene is mentioned in later episodes)
Count Gu Feng En was presented at the Palace Exam. Because a scholar has to abstain from physical violence he disrobed his scholar robes and roughly handled an official from the opposing faction. He also grabbed a sword. (deleted scenes).
Because of his actions he was stripped of his exam results and is barred from sitting Imperial exams for life.
Lu Shi Yu took his own life because someone has to be hold accountable for the Palace Exam fiasco and hence his final speech to the Emperor referenced 'the scholars are under Your protection' and tearing up the petition name list.
This is due to some scenes being BANNED had to be cut and reedit to get thru the censors.
The reason for that is not explained but I believe because Chinese authority feel that it bear 'certain resemblance' to the confrontation that occurred near the Hong Kong PolyU in late November 2019.
Due to unfortunate timing, the series premiered near these dates. This also probably explained why Youku delayed the release of some episodes from their original schedule.
[Some of the deleted scenes shown scholars (students) quitting exam in protest and one of them took up a sword after disrobing his scholar (student) garment.]
I posted description of some of the deleted scenes in my spoiler below. Also, I will be away for about 2 weeks tomorrow, so if anyone has further questions on this please ask now or wait for a fortnight :)
European nobility have different ranks/names so for example, Jia Yi Bo could be translated as the 'The Beautiful and Righteous Count'
(Count is not a nobility rank for England, so we can also use 'Earl')
The Examination Fiasco is a trap engineered by PM Li Bai Zhou ...
Edit:
Argh, I should have got some sleep first before I wrote the above. I know what the Crown Prince feels now ;)
My assumption was Xu Changping (the other candidate) was working for the PM, but it is not be the case.
So the PM didn't start the trap, but he was a better weiqi (go) player than the Prince and converted a dangerous 'atari' situation to live 'eyes' and outmatched the Crown Prince.
Crown Prince Ding Quan (DQ) simply wrote a scroll of good wishes/blessings. At the ceremony he told a white lie to the Emperor it was his brother's way of congratulating him (to explain the event of a scroll dropping from the palace wall which he thought would happened afterwards).
DQ's intention was that no one would be hurt - his father would be delighted by the display of 'fraternity goodwill' between the brothers and he reasoned that Prince Ding Tang would keep this mouth shut because his scroll plan has failed.
Unbeknowst to DQ, the scroll plan is a decoy right from the start - the actual trap from start is Supervisor Zhang would fell from the wall with an incriminating handkerchief since it's far more damaging than any scroll written by a third-party.
Later when the partial burnt scroll of good wishes was recovered the Emperor realized the Crown Prince's original intention was indeed good.
---
People in Examination Fiasco:
Baron Gu Fengen (candidate) is the DQ's cousin from his mother's side. They are very close friends.
Lu Shi Yu (chief examiner) is DQ's teacher. Lu is like a surrogate father to DQ. He was an official since the days of the previous Emperor (DQ's grandfather).
Lu Wen Pu (candidate) is Lu Wen Xi's brother. Their father is Lu Ying (see EP01), a senior student of Lu Shi Yu and picked by him as successor (future counselor) of the Crown Prince.
Hint:
The plot started prior to someone writing 'Lack of filial piety as a son' on a scroll using water instead of ink. It ended when a different scroll was found.
In the examination fiasco of EP4 to 7, a different trap within a trap was sprung...
to compare two versions from different platforms against the native Mandarin dialogue.
Here's my ratings for the English subs:
7.5/10 for Youtube (others said Amazon Prime has the same English subtitles)
9.5/10 for Astro Shuang Xing channel
As others have said here, the English subs on Youtube and some platforms are identical, as they are provided by the production company.
The Astro version wins on clarity, better overall accuracy and synchronization of the subtitle to speech on screen.
Some examples (no spoilers):
'Lady Zhang' (Youtube) vs 'Supervisor Zhang' (Astro)
'Shangfu department' (Youtube) vs 'Bureau of Attire' (Astro)
'died of biting of...' (Youtube) vs 'bite...' (Astro) - there's no death on screen or reference to it in the actual speech
In one case, Youtube used a subtitle placeholder '[Delivering the commencement address]'
while Astro translated the full speech in formal English.
There's several instances however when the Youtube version is more accurate:
eg: When Emperor asked someone to :-
'plead guilty' (Youtube) vs 'apologise' (Astro) in court.
IMO, 'confess your wrongdoing' would be a better translation here.
I have the experience of doing English subs for several episodes of other period C-dramas before and know the efforts involved. So I applauded Astro's subtitling team for doing a good job so far.
Both are famous Chinese composers in their own rights.
Meng Ke is responsible for music used in most of Daylight Entertainment’s works (production company of NIF 1 and 2) while Roc Chen is more international oriented with over 150 past projects in China, US and India.
I talked a bit about Roc Chen past works last year at the Ever Night comments section - after his work in Ever Night he did the soundtracks for two of China’s blockbuster films in 2019 - one of which is The Wandering Earth.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Royal-Nirvana/dp/B081HH7TZ9
Netflix is Amazon Prime rival so no Royal Nirvana for Netflix...
Anyway, the link below should give information of what choices of platforms readers have to watch the show in their respective areas:
Overseas markets snap up Chinese TV series 'Royal Nirvana': http://www.china.org.cn/arts/2019-11/15/content_75411981.htm