usagisaiko

Those are all good points, thanks. I did at first wonder what the heck happened, if the writer had no time to work out those episodes, because even if no one can always be smart, there were just so many things that had me going, what?! And this is a drama that's entertaining because the MCs are smarter than us, so it doesn't matter if it's realistic that they would handle things weirdly. Namely, Ms Boss Lady Detective not telling/calling anyone what was going on once out of Evil Kid's sight since he didn't tell her there was some camera on her or whatever. She was a cool character until she became forefront and was useless. And that was just one thing. I know a lot of people were really mad that there was no clear closure, not seeing Evil Dude behind bars or Evil Kid paying his dues, once I realized they were just setting things up for a season two (where I can see our hero mysteriously resurrecting), it made more sense why the last eps didn't follow deliver on those things and instead created new conflict. I do hope there will be a season 2 even though that seems a rare thing! They surely made it seem like a promise rather than just being an open-ended ending. Has anyone heard any news about that?

Umm, can anyone explain the logic of that one scene with the phones, guns, bombs and stuff? You know, the one where some super smart adults are getting yanked around by a kid who really isn't smarter than them? Were there not a bunch of glaring holes in his little 'game'? I feel I must have missed something...

No, just the same name. 6 Flying Dragons has another historically-inspired character named Mu Hyul. What I was saying is that the two dramas' settings are over a thousand years apart. But if you haven't seen the latter, watch it--it's really well done! One of the best recent sageuks imo.

Thanks, guys...you rock! Super helpful.

Not really, although lots in recent years. We could say there are too many dramas with princes as leads, though, because in Chinese history strategists were highly valued! I think more so than in western history. Plus, it always makes for a more interesting plot when you don't know what their next move will be. So I say bring it!

So you're saying everything goes downhill after that? There seem to be so many spoilers in these comments that I don't want to read any more of them, but could you explain? Thanks!

I remember while this was airing, most of the comments were about that! I haven't decided to watch it yet, but she's the reason I'm considering it.

I'll have to check those out...I loved him in Pride and Prejudice.

I love this list! Too often, the villain is either so one-dimensionally evil you merely want to kill them, or they're just boringly evil. But when they're either a pleasure to watch as characters, or are complex enough that you can't quite figure them out...it makes the story that much better, or can even save a mediocre plot. As for Kdramas, my top 5 would include:

1) The most excellent evil Lady Mishil for sure! Even though I was so disappointed by the end of QSD, she made up half the awesome in that drama.
2) Gil Tae Mi in Six Flying Dragons, was soooo uniquely riveting and weirdly lovable
3) Cha Seung Won's character Son Hyuk, who actually made the trainwreck that was Athena: Goddess of War worth watching and who was 10x more interesting than the hero (Which reminds me that the first Iris drama had a great villain too, played by T.O.P)
4) Choi Won Young of Hello Monster, who was just oh so fascinating and hard to hate.
5) Kyun Mi Ri plays awesome lady villains in the two classic sageuk, Jumong (Queen Wan Hoo) and Dae Jang Geum (Lady Choi)...you hate her characters for sure, but you also can't help but feel for her at times and admire her cunning. She throws some of the best hissy fits too. The first time I saw her play a nice character I was gravely disappointed.

I also remember getting tired of much of the repetition in the drama Punch, but never the villain Lee Tae Jun's witty metaphors. 38 Task Force had a bunch of villains, but I just loved Mr. Ma (played by the hilarious Oh Dae Hwan). Also, two other very recent dramas with fascinating bad guys: Defendant and Rebel.

I can't help but mention a few [non-spoiler] Jdrama villains off the top of my head who were pretty great:

~ Watabe Asturo's fascinating villain Sawatari in the darkly comedic crime drama Kurokouchi
~ Both charming and wily villains in business drama Hanzawa Naoki
~ The enigmatic villain Ryuzaki Shinji in Orthros no Inu, played brilliantly by Takizawa Hideaki
~ Kichise Michiko's Orihara Maya in Bloody Monday is just so slick, she makes what could be a cliche role memorable (Kichise always pulls these roles off well)
~ I also loved the villain(s) in the recent black comedy Boku no Yabai Tsuma

That said, there are also so many other wonderfully charismatic villains I would list, but they would be spoilerish when the character turns bad or is grey most of the way through...and definite spoilers for mysteries!

Oh my goodness...Gil Tae Mi and how PHK played the role. I loved him!!!!!! Have never been more sad for a villain to meet his end. Def. in my top list too

For people asking if they need to watch Namonaki Doku first, I would disagree with those saying no. No, you might technically not be lost within the plot while watching this one, but you will really miss out on numerous things. The stories in both seasons are all based on Miyabe Miyuki novels with Sugimura Saburo as the protagonist, and are connected even if there are 3 separate story arcs involved. The first season is not a prequel as in the kind you can watch afterward. In fact, I think watching season 2 first would detract from the first. This one has some flashbacks, but they are more like reminders for the audience who saw season 1 a year prior. There's an assumption that you already know the primary and some side characters. There's even some humor that will be missed.

These dramas aren't just about the mystery but are very character oriented, so it's a huge shame to miss out on the continuing characters and relationships, and particularly the beginning of Sugimura's story. He's such a great character, a paradoxically unique everyman, and his inner feelings that drive the narrative are a big part of what makes her storytelling more than just intriguing mystery novels. If I were to have watched this without knowing his (and others') backstory, the emotional impact would've been wayyyy lower.

If you watched this online rather than on TV, where did you find it? Did you see the other SP too, Ayashii Ai no Monogatari?

Starts out amazing...one of the best first episodes I've seen in a long time, and gets better for a few episodes. The acting was great, characters fascinating, the cinematography superb, and the writing tight and clever. The MCs start out awesome and everything is compelling and emotive...and then, it starts to go downhill. It's like the writers suddenly had no idea how to move the story forward without making Lee Bo Young's character and her daughter do every imaginable stupid thing you would never even think of so as to artificially keep the danger present, conflict apparent, and mystery unsolved. Not to mention keep her in hysterics for two weeks to the point that it's not believable or sympathetic like the beginning. Only the male lead (played by Jo Seung Woo, who is awesome as usual) is smart and interesting, and all LBY's great points go down the drain.

The change is so contrasting that if I had told myself this at the beginning, I wouldn't have believed myself--I actually kept thinking "What are those negative comment ppl talking about, this is so smartly written and she's ever so cool a character!" I thought the worst it could get would to just be typical thriller-unrealistic, which I can totally live with if the story's great, and I was sure there was no way it could go downhill. The beginning of the story is *that* good, and the rest is that frustrating. But VERY addictive, and I'm beginning to realize that addictive+annoying is not a pleasant combo. Also so sad was that the excellent use of the time travel device was set up to be quite easy to keep consistent, and while I usually don't judge timeslip discrepancies too harshly b/c I know how tough it is to work with, there was no reason for some of the discrepancies to have been in the second timeline. The writer had set up a great way to deal with changes, but then quickly seemed to forget about dealing with half of them. It felt more frustrating b/c it's like it violate its own system.

As for the end (no spoliers), I know so many people hated it due to the confusing implications, but still rated the whole drama highly...I thought it was clearly a happy ending (as a few commenters have explained well enough), but what I thought was so lame was that there was ZERO reason to make it ambiguous by cutting out certain super short shots (a couple shown in director's cut ending) and not filming others in a clear way. There was no reasonable reason to try to appear clever by tricking viewers, because even those who could see that it was a fitting ending got cheated...b/c there was no emotional impact to it when there so easily could have been lots, making the ending satisfying. Ugh. Anyway, if you decide to watch this, be sure to look at spoiler comments when finished to make sure you understand the end, because that's at least better than feeling completely betrayed, which isn't necessary.

Ooh!! Yay. So glad you went ahead in spite of your reservations (and my comment). In fact, I was just telling someone that I really love the fact that everyone responds to stories differently and have diverse tastes...that even if I wasn't thrilled with a story, someone else may love it like crazy! Anyway, if you liked TPM, I'm positive you'll also love this one. I believe I marathoned it in like 3 or 4 days! Unlike most, it doesn't even try to place itself in a specific reign, so it is free to not stick to any historical outcomes. But you'll still enjoy learning more about elements of the era it's set in as it does a great job working with those aspects of history that are accurate, and that makes the story ring true. Hope you're historical drama 'journey' continues to be a great experience!

As you said elsewhere, MrB...it may seem we are 'spoiled' to not have been satisfied with this drama. I do appreciate the dramas I just find entertaining even if not satisfying to me. There were great things about Tunnel, such as the main three characters and their relationships, the early mystery/intrigue in the setup of PKH's conflict, his initial angst about being separated by his wife and not being able to catch the killer. Not to mention that early episodes featuring his curmudgeonly old school frustration with the 'future' was truly hilarious. I felt the writing was tight and the storytelling compelling at first. I wouldn't have been disappointed if I didn't enjoy those so much and feel it was set up to go somewhere it didn't.

I'm thinking your specific question was probably rhetorical, but in case it wasn't, the dramas I find more satisfying are the ones that I feel deliver on the conflicts they set up, develop the characters' potential that's been set up, and for every scene/conversation to matter--to have a purpose and move the story forward (including those intended more for entertainment's sake). For writers to be consistent with logic they've set up and think about the implications/results of events and character actions, and if they don't know how to complete a certain arc, to leave it out. Of course, I realize that this is hard to do when a drama is being filmed before a script's story is fully developed and they're making stuff up as they go. I would love to see that eventually change in the Kdrama industry.

I agree with other commenters that Signal is a comparable drama that was far better developed as a whole, even if I didn't love the ending. Another OCN detective thriller I thought more satisfying personally was Bad Guys, if you haven't seen it. Defendant was satisfying--hope you enjoyed it too. There are a lot of crime Jdramas I love that I've seen plenty of criticism for. :) But as for slightly older crime/thriller Kdramas with great characters and satisfying scripts...I'm sure you've seen these, but if not, what comes to mind are Monster (aka I Remember You), You're All Surrounded, Two Weeks. Last years Beautiful Mind was a satisfying thriller, even if cut short (and even though I didn't love the female lead!) Cheers to you as well as my fellow disgruntled Tunnel watchers!

Mr Banana, please don't be offended by our negative remarks, which are not directed at you. I can understand that when you love a drama like crazy, it might be frustrating to see people criticize things you completely disagree with. But note that we're trying to waste time criticizing writing positive comments about how wrong they are. You are not wrong to love it, even if I felt let down because I loved it at first and felt it could've been so much more! I am thrilled that you and the larger majority had such a great time watching this drama the way it was. I don't think any of us are making comments about disappointment with Tunnel to be petty or say you guys have bad taste. I know how awesome it is to love a drama all the way through, so just ignore us.

Whenever I decide to write a negative comment with specifics as to why, it's not for me or for thrilled fans--it's for anyone who has feelings about it like me, or who has taste similar to me and might be on the fence as to whether or not to watch something, or is coming to a drama with expectations way too high. This is just because I often spend hours and hours watching something that only had glowing reviews/comments and wish at least someone who felt differently would've written about their feelings. And like KatySarang_TGeyes said, we come here to share our honest opinions. I don't think anyone disrespects your feelings about Tunnel! I'm sure many that I love you might be disappointed with too, and I think it's awesome that we all have diverse experiences with diverse stories. Peace to everybody on MDL! ^_^

Please don't be offended by any of our negative remarks. I agree that criticism can be pointless, but I don't think any of us are making comments about disappointment with this drama to be petty or criticize anyone else who loved it. I'm very glad many people enjoyed this so much! I know how awesome it is to love a drama all the way through, so just ignore us. Whenever I decide to write a negative comment with specifics as to why, it's not for me or for thrilled fans--it's for anyone who has taste similar to me and might be on the fence as to whether or not to watch something, or is coming to a drama with expectations way too high. This is just because I often spend hours and hours watching something that only had glowing reviews/comments and wish at least someone who felt differently would've written about their feelings. No harm intended to the majority. Again, glad you loved it!

I don't think any of us are making comments about disappointment with this drama to be petty or criticize anyone else who loved it; I'm very glad many people enjoyed it to pieces, and I will be the first to say that I think it's great the everyone's taste is so different. There are probably loads of dramas that I thought were brilliant or hilarious that you and many others might find boring, disappointing, and totally unfunny.

Whenever I decide to write a negative comment with specifics as to why, it's not for me but for anyone who has taste similar to me and might be on the fence as to whether or not to watch something, or is coming to a drama with expectations way too high. This is just because I often spend hours and hours watching something that only had glowing reviews/comments and wish at least someone who felt differently would've written about their feelings. No harm intended to the majority.

Very awesome...I hope this means he really is doing better!

Not sure even a spectacular finale can save this continuing downward spiral of predictability and pointless scenes. :( Loved it for the first 5 or 6 eps and then...but I'm glad I'm in the minority and so many people seem to be enjoying it enough to call it a 'beautiful' masterpiece classic and such superlatives.

I just so long for good writing to last through a whole drama...for writers to actually have a plan throughout...to actually make full use of their great concepts or characters for more than early episodes...for characters we care about to not stop developing halfway through...for less filler, less smart people getting dumber in an not-believeable way...arg. Just disappointed.