I did find YH to be a rather horrible wife and mother, and frankly person. She did repent and change through the…
With respect to his own business, the proposal was that he mortaged his home... guy was going to end up homeless (I would say risking to, but it was a foregone conclusion given his mental state, economic situation, the difference in power with the CEO, his lack of experience and contacts, and the damage discovering the betrayal and deception would do to him at a crucial moment in the business), as was explicitly stated in the show. A disaster waiting to happen.
Frankly, I thought FL was a pretty appalling wife, mother and generally person. She verbally and emotionally abused…
Wrt his own business, the proposal was that he mortaged his home... guy was going to end up homeless (I would say risking to, but it was a foregone conclusion given his mental state, economic situation, the difference in power with the CEO, his lack of experience and contacts, and the damage discovering the betrayal and deception would do to him at a crucial moment in the business), as was explicitly stated in the show.
I loved the drama but I agree with everything you said about the wife. She was not treated well by Dong Hoon and…
I honesty don't recall DH's older brother telling YH he was sorry to put economic pressure on her marriage. I think that if he did, it wouldn't make much sense, because there really was no economic pressure on her marriage. There was economic pressure on DH, given that he was the one that economically supported him and his brother (I mean, poor guy's account was almost empty thanks to that, and he had to get money on credit to give his older brother for his daughter's wedding, telling him it was from YH who couldn't come to the wedding). DH's older brother told YH he was sorry essentially for the fact that she felt lonely, though I felt that was more in the context of trying to save DH's marriage.
It's simply untrue to say that YH was the only breadwinner. DH had a job, he was not just a househusband (not that there would have been anything wrong with that, and he was certainly more than willing to take care of the groceries and the housework, so YH could come back to a tidy house and she could focus on her career, because he wanted to support her), and supported his brothers economically (we see in the 1st episode that despite his monthly pay his account had very little money in it because of that). DH's brothers had encountered economic difficulties, but they did work, and supported their mother economically when they could (as did DH). It is worth noting that JH, the female owner of the bar, also contributed economically to DH's mother's expenses, without expecting anything in return, even if she was not her daughter in law or in any way related to her by familiar bonds.
It's again worth noting that DH did support his family economically while telling them that the money came from YH, such as in the 1st episode when he got money on credit from his account to give his older brother for his daughter's wedding, telling him they were from YH, since she couldn't be present. So they might believe that they came from her, when in fact it was from him. Again, like most things in the drama this wasn't an overstated scene.
YH did contribute economically, and was certainly keen to point it out to DH: namely, she paid about $20k for the house his mother currently lived in (depending on the translation it's unclear whether that part of the house's cost came from both of them). The house's value was $95k, and it was bought with a loan. YH also contributed to the brother's businesses in non-economic way, for example by bringing them clients. Notably, by her own admission, he did all that, and generally was nice to his mother, brothers and her sister in law, not out of genuine desire to do so, without expecting anything in return, but merely to get into DH's good graces so he would allow her to mold him into who she wanted. It was not genuine, without ulterior motive: she did have an ulterior motive, and it was entirely transactional (not to mention manipulative): contrast this with his older brother paying for JA's mother's funeral without expecting anything in return.
When it came time to start the new business, the mother considered mortaging the house, and ultimately DH had to be the one to take care of the situation. The older brother also borrowed money, for example from the guy that shamed him in front of his family that DH argued with. They didn't go ask YH for money. They clearly weren't exploiting YH economically and living off her.
It is also worth noting that it was not a one way street. DH's mother helped raise YH's kid so she could focus on her career. It seemed to me that it was absolutely appalling that she shouldn't be considered family. As, apparently, she didn't consider family her own niece, the daughter of the sister in law that consistently stood up to her and that very clearly treated YH's own son as family, given that YH missed the girl's wedding to spend time with her lover.
It was very clear that DH's brothers were grateful and appreciative of YH, as was her sister in law (who was always in her corner, despite the fact that YH missed her daughter's wedding to spend time with her lover and didn't even bother to call).
Again, I would just stress that on top of DH's brothers and DH himself sustaining his mom economically, and DH sustaining his brothers, there was also JH, the female owner of the bar, that economically sustained DH's mother, despite not being her daughter in law or part of the family. That's what genuine act without ulterior motives is.
DH's older brother's wife even spends time with her mother in law despite being separated from DH's brother. Frankly, I think that everyone considers DH's brothers and mother family, and they consider YH family, and DH's and YH's kid considers them all family, while she is the only one that doesn't consider them family and thinks DH shouldn't consider them family either, as if considering them family somehow detracted from his love for her (despite all his reassurances to the contrary). They all ask where she is when she isn't there (and she often isn't, now that her plan to ingratiate herself to DH to get him to distance himself from family and friends failed, she intentionally avoids meeting them with excuses, as she only spent time with them due to her ulterior motive of wanting to change DH's core values). They clearly consider her family, and treat her kid as family. DH's mother even helped raise the kid. Not family, somehow. It's just insulting, to me. I mean, you don't have to like your family, but to not even acknowledge that they are family? And they certainly liked her (at least before the two brothers discovered the affair, afterwards the younger one, correctly, didn't... he must have felt betrayed, considering how he always stood up for her).
DH's mother appreciated her as well, she simply had trouble communicating it, which YH's sister in law explained. But at DH's party, it was pretty clear that DH's mother appreciated and was grateful to YH. DH's mother had some old fashioned ideas (which were not shared by DH's brothers or DH himself, who correctly didn't see any issue with YH making more money than him), but in that context it was clear that her concern there was for YH, because she was sorry that she had to work so hard (her concern was misplaced because the truth is that YH enjoyed her work, and it's not as if now that DH makes more money she intended to stop working, in other words this is not something she did because she "had" to do, or a sacrifice, it's something she enjoyed and "wanted" to do).
In terms of the issues in YH's and DH's marriage, I frankly don't think it's fair to blame him for failing to convince her that family and friends mattered to him and that this didn't detract from what he felt for her. He did communicate this to her multiple times, and it's a pretty obvious concept: the same way her love for her kid does not detract from her love for her husband, his love for family and friends does not mean he loves her any less.
At a basic level, DH never hid his values and what family and friends meant to him. YH merely pretended to accept that, and acted nice with them without any genuine interest in getting to know them or establishing a genuine relationship, but with an ulterior motive of getting on DH's good side so he would adopt her outlook and distance himself from friends and family. Which he didn't owe her and she had no right to ask. When that failed, she simply stopped meeting them, avoided it with excuses, and DH had to justify her absence to his family and friends. Even at the marriage of YH's niece (compare how the girl's mother relates to YH's own child).
DH felt alone and abandoned as well, he merely didn't raise the issue because he was understanding and wanted to support YH (same reason he took care of the groceries and housework, making sure she found a tidy house when she came home). YH not being home, is not an excuse, it's a fact that she herself acknowledged. It's therefore unclear to me why only her perspective on the matter would count, while DH's loneliness shouldn't. It seems just petty and cruel to pretend he stood around in an empty house, rather than spend time with family and friends, if she was not going to be around anyway. Now, he put up with it in silence because he wanted to be supportive of her, but it's unclear to me why he should have been the only one to come up with a solution, given that she was the one to raise the issue, while she would just spurn the offer and not come up with a proposal of her own.
YH knew very well what DH's outlook on family and friends was, he never hid it or lied about it. She did lie, by pretending to be okay with it and to care about his family, and spent time with his family in order to get into DH's good graces, planning to mold him into who she wanted and to have him change his core values for her. That was never going to happen, and she didn't have the right to ask: he simply didn't owe it to her. When she failed, she simply stopped pretending and made up excuses to avoid family events. It's not that she was not invited, it's that she was, and made up excuses not to go, and DH had to justify her absence to his family. Then she would complain about not being there.
Quite clearly, both JA and YR clearly demonstrate how welcoming DH's family and friends were to someone that genuinely wanted to fit in with them. YH, quite simply, never did. Which is a shame, because JA and YR clearly value the neighborhood, and the viewer sees how precious those relationships are (I think DH's kid would be of the same opinion). They were also welcoming of YH at DH's promotion party. So it was not a matter of excluding her, but of her not having any interest in them.
Which is fine, I mean, while it's common for partners' friend groups to overlap, one is not obliged to have the same friend groups as one's partners. Nothing stopped YH from having her own friend group (they live in Seoul and she has a car: just like she was able to meet up with her lover, she could make time to spend time with friends). Frankly, she should have done that, rather than pretend that DH stopped valuing his life long friends. On some level, it does seem unfair and nonsensical to me that she would make him entirely responsible for her loneliness, when she was the one that turned down family events and wasn't interested in establishing a relationship with his friends in the first place, nor did she attempt to develop her own friendships.
If I were to give this a word, I would call it not being emotionally independent. Fundamentally, I think that one needs to be able to be happy by themselves, and only then can they hope to be happy in a relationship. You cannot really expect the other person to make you happy and push that responsibility on them. I feel that the show made this point as well, with the way that DH and JA are separated at the end, and each has to reach happiness by themselves.
It is also worth noting that YH did not even attempt to propose a compromise or reach a middle ground with DH. He was struggling with loneliness himself, but didn't want to bother her, so he put up with it in silence. Good, at least he didn't put the blame on her. He simply started spending more time with his friends and family. But if she didn't want that, she could have very well proposed a compromise (imho it should have come from her, given that she was the one that raised the issue, not from him, though of course he did propose a compromise himself, which she turned down without a counter-proposal).
In particular, I want to stress that physically separating her partner from lifelong friends and family and pretending that he changes his core values around family and community is neither fair nor, in any sense of the word, a "solution". It's not a compromise or middle ground. Frankly, it's unclear why the "solution" to her possessiveness, jealousy and irrational insecurities would not be to deal with them and address them, but to distance her partner from friends and family so as to remove that connection, or to pretend that he loves them less or values them less.
Frankly, this went beyond the small family vs extended family part. Not considering someone that raised your kid to be family? Or your own niece? Also, we are talking about DH's mother and brothers, not his cousin thrice removed. The label "extended family" makes no sense in this context.
On the "love" part, I found DH's words on that pretty incontrovertible. I mean, does YH's love for her child come at the expense of her love for her husband? I mean, it's not as if DH was going on about poly or anything like that. It's familial love and romantic love. Different types of love, and one does not detract from the other in any way.
Ultimately, intent matters. Could both YH and DH have communicated better? Yes. Were they perfect? No.
But YH was verbally and emotionally abusive, and gaslighted him while doing everything from havig a full blown affair with his abusive boss behind his back, to telling JA that now that she was no longer with the boss and it was not her business anymore, she didn't care even if DH was framed and fired. Pluss all the other stuff she did.
DH simply never did a fraction of that to her. He never treated her with a fraction of the lack of loyalty, honesty and respect. He was committed and devoted to her. He wanted to support her and make her happy (he just wouldn't compromise his core values to do it), and everything, from taking care of the housework and making sure she could come back to a tidy home so she could focus on her career, to putting up with his pain and loneliness in silence, rather than snapping and complaining to her like she did, was meant to support her.
YH's flashback was pretty telling: a bunch of scenes where she snapped at DH and treated him absolutely atrociously, verbally and emotionally abusing him while he put up with it in silence, but rather taking care of her in bed and feeding her porridge while knowing she had been having an affair. Or the confrontation with the boss, where he took him to task about not wanting to marry YH, despite reeling from the pain of finding her glove. Or trusting her unconditionally, and defending her to her brothers when they questioned her excuse of being on a business trip when she missed her own niece's wedding.
Ultimately, neither was perfect, but it's pretty clear who let the other down, for the most part. I mean, it's not even a fair contest. YH's behavior was incomparably worse than DH's on any level. Even in terms of loneliness, he too felt lonely and abandoned, and it's unclear to me why him not snapping at her, and putting up with it in silence, would make that unimportant. What, because he didn't complain it doesn't count?
Talking with her lover, YH was honest enough to recognize that this was about her and DH having different values, and that plenty of people wouldn't have had a problem with his values. And the show clearly demonstrates it, because, with absolutely no change in his values or behavior, JA is okay with it, and YH is okay with his younger brother's. I liked that the show didn't make DH abandon his values, or make it seem like they were wrong, but rather showed the viewer how those relationships were precious, and had JA and YR appreciate them.
If DH was the one that tried to distance JA from her grandma or hacker friend, trying to leverage the fact that he made her a favor, and that if she really loved her she would not consider her grandma family, and want to spend time with her, but would instead let him monopolize her attention and distance herself from friends and family. After all, he did her a favor, and so if she really loved him, why not relocate to a distant place where she wouldn't be in contact with her friends and family anymore? Otherwise it means she doesn't love him.
It should be apparent how crazy that all sounded. Frankly, it's just that YH's actress gave a great performance, because when you actually look at the situation on its face, you would have to take note of the fact that basically nobody else, from JA to YR (DH's younger brother's gf) really has a problem with their relationship with friends and family (well, JA has the same outlook as DH on family, their values are aligned there).
Some of the premises of the above contain some factual errors. In some cases the drama was subtle about certain points, in others they were spelled out quite explicitly.
DH was not depressed because someone he hated became CEO, this was explicitly stated in the drama. Though certainly being abused and suppressed at work didn't help. Depression has multiple causes (in some cases, independent from one's life's material conditions). Before that, DH was the star of his department and was up for promotion.
DH did not have an issue making less money than YH (nor shouldn't he), though it's simply untrue to say that she was the only breadwinner: DH had a job, he was not just a househusband (not that there would have been anything wrong with that, and he was certainly more than willing to take care of the groceries and the housework, so YH could come back to a tidy house and she could focus on her career, because he wanted to support her).
As for the work, it's worth noting that the whole team was a target, and that they, and DH, didn't rebel for the obvious reason that they were without any power or leverage to change the situation, and would have been fired if they tried to do something about it: the ones oppressing them were the CEO's lackeys, and they could have hardly done anything against the CEO. As soon as DH got leverage over the CEO he used it to get him to treat the team fairly (notably, he didn't ask for any preferential treatment).
So, he did something about the situation as soon as he had the power to. This to me doesn't say anything bad about his character, and merely means that the depiction of the situation matters: power matters, and if those in charge want to oppress you, if you don't want to be fired there is little you can do about it. It's a realistic portrayal of what would actually happen, rather than a fantasy.
It is simply not true that DH, his brothers and his mother were exploiting YH economically and living off her.
DH had his own job, and supported his brothers economically (we see in the 1st episode that despite his monthly pay his account had very little money in it because of that). DH's brothers had encountered economic difficulties, but they did work, and supported their mother economically when they could (as did DH). It is worth noting that JH, the female owner of the bar, also contributed economically to DH's mother's expenses, without expecting anything in return, even if she was not her daughter in law or in any way related to her by familiar bonds.
it is worth noting that DH did support his family economically while telling them that the money came from YH, such as in the 1st episode when he got money on credit from his account to give his older brother for his daughter's wedding, telling him they were from YH, since she couldn't be present. So they might believe that they came from her, when in fact it was from him. Again, like most things in the drama this wasn't an overstated scene.
YH did contribute economically, and was certainly keen to point it out to DH: namely, she paid about $20k for the house his mother currently lived in (depending on the translation it's unclear whether that part of the house's cost came from both of them). The house's value was $95k, and it was bought with a loan. YH also contributed to the brother's businesses in non-economic way, for example by bringing them clients. Notably, by her own admission, he did all that, and generally was nice to his mother, brothers and her sister in law, not out of genuine desire to do so, without expecting anything in return, but merely to get into DH's good graces so he would allow her to mold him into who she wanted. It was not genuine, without ulterior motive: she did have an ulterior motive, and it was entirely transactional (not to mention manipulative): contrast this with his older brother paying for JA's mother's funeral without expecting anything in return.
When it came time to start the new business, the mother considered mortaging the house, and ultimately DH had to be the one to take care of the situation. The older brother also borrowed money, for example from the guy that shamed him in front of his family that DH argued with. They didn't go ask YH for money. They clearly weren't exploiting YH economically and living off her.
It is also worth noting that it was not a one way street. DH's mother helped raise YH's kid so she could focus on her career. It seemed to me that it was absolutely appalling that she shouldn't be considered family. As, apparently, she didn't consider family her own niece, the daughter of the sister in law that consistently stood up to her and that very clearly treated YH's own son as family, given that YH missed the girl's wedding to spend time with her lover.
It was very clear that DH's brothers were grateful and appreciative of YH, as was her sister in law (who was always in her corner, despite the fact that YH missed her daughter's wedding to spend time with her lover and didn't even bother to call).
Again, I would just stress that on top of DH's brothers and DH himself sustaining his mom economically, and DH sustaining his brothers, there was also JH, the female owner of the bar, that economically sustained DH's mother, despite not being her daughter in law or part of the family. That's what genuine act without ulterior motives is.
DH's older brother's wife even spends time with her mother in law despite being separated from DH's brother. Frankly, I think that everyone considers DH's brothers and mother family, and they consider YH family, and DH's and YH's kid considers them all family, while she is the only one that doesn't consider them family and thinks DH shouldn't consider them family either, as if considering them family somehow detracted from his love for her (despite all his reassurances to the contrary). They all ask where she is when she isn't there (and she often isn't, now that her plan to ingratiate herself to DH to get him to distance himself from family and friends failed, she intentionally avoids meeting them with excuses, as she only spent time with them due to her ulterior motive of wanting to change DH's core values). They clearly consider her family, and treat her kid as family. DH's mother even helped raise the kid. Not family, somehow. It's just insulting, to me. I mean, you don't have to like your family, but to not even acknowledge that they are family? And they certainly liked her (at least before the two brothers discovered the affair, afterwards the younger one, correctly, didn't... he must have felt betrayed, considering how he always stood up for her).
DH's mother appreciated her as well, she simply had trouble communicating it. She was "tsundere", in that sense ;) Which YH's sister in law explained. But at DH's party, it was pretty clear that DH's mother appreciated and was grateful to YH. DH's mother had some old fashioned ideas (which were not shared by DH's brothers or DH himself, who correctly didn't see any issue with YH making more money than him), but in that context it was clear that her concern there was for YH, because she was sorry that she had to work so hard (her concern was misplaced because the truth is that YH enjoyed her work, and it's not as if now that DH makes more money she intended to stop working, in other words this is not something she did because she "had" to do, or a sacrifice, it's something she enjoyed and "wanted" to do).
On YH not being home, that's not an excuse, it's a fact that she herself acknowledged. It's therefore unclear to me why only her perspective on the matter would count, while DH's loneliness shouldn't. It seems just petty and cruel to pretend he stood around in an empty house, rather than spend time with family and friends, if she was not going to be around anyway. Now, he put up with it in silence because he wanted to be supportive of her, but it's unclear to me why he should have been the only one to come up with a solution, given that she was the one to raise the issue, while she would just spurn the offer and not come up with a proposal of her own.
YH knew very well what DH's outlook on family and friends was, he never hid it or lied about it. She did lie, by pretending to be okay with it and to care about his family, and spent time with his family in order to get into DH's good graces, planning to mold him into who she wanted and to have him change his core values for her. That was never going to happen, and she didn't have the right to ask: he simply didn't owe it to her. When she failed, she simply stopped pretending and made up excuses to avoid family events. It's not that she was not invited, it's that she was, and made up excuses not to go, and DH had to justify her absence to his family. Then she would complain about not being there.
Quite clearly, both JA and YR clearly demonstrate how welcoming DH's family and friends were to someone that genuinely wanted to fit in with them. YH, quite simply, never did. Which is a shame, because JA and YR clearly value the neighborhood, and the viewer sees how precious those relationships are (I think DH's kid would be of the same opinion). They were also welcoming of YH at DH's promotion party. So it was not a matter of excluding her, but of her not having any interest in them.
Which is fine, I mean, while it's common for partners' friend groups to overlap, one is not obliged to have the same friend groups as one's partners. Nothing stopped YH from having her own friend group (they live in Seoul and she has a car: just like she was able to meet up with her lover, she could make time to spend time with friends). Frankly, she should have done that, rather than pretend that DH stopped valuing his life long friends. On some level, it does seem unfair and nonsensical to me that she would make him entirely responsible for her loneliness, when she was the one that turned down family events and wasn't interested in establishing a relationship with his friends in the first place, nor did she attempt to develop her own friendships.
If I were to give this a word, I would call it not being emotionally independent. Fundamentally, I think that one needs to be able to be happy by themselves, and only then can they hope to be happy in a relationship. You cannot really expect the other person to make you happy and push that responsibility on them. I feel that the show made this point as well, with the way that DH and JA are separated at the end, and each has to reach happiness by themselves.
It is also worth noting that YH did not even attempt to propose a compromise or reach a middle ground with DH. He was struggling with loneliness himself, but didn't want to bother her, so he put up with it in silence. Good, at least he didn't put the blame on her. He simply started spending more time with his friends and family. But if she didn't want that, she could have very well proposed a compromise (imho it should have come from her, given that she was the one that raised the issue, not from him, though of course he did propose a compromise himself, which she turned down without a counter-proposal).
In particular, I want to stress that physically separating her partner from lifelong friends and family and pretending that he changes his core values around family and community is neither fair nor, in any sense of the word, a "solution". It's not a compromise or middle ground. Frankly, it's unclear why the "solution" to her possessiveness, jealousy and irrational insecurities would not be to deal with them and address them, but to distance her partner from friends and family so as to remove that connection, or to pretend that he loves them less or values them less.
Frankly, this went beyond the small family vs extended family part. Not considering someone that raised your kid to be family? Or your own niece? Also, we are talking about DH's mother and brothers, not his cousin thrice removed. The label "extended family" makes no sense in this context.
On the "love" part, I found DH's words on that pretty incontrovertible. I mean, does YH's love for her child come at the expense of her love for her husband? I mean, it's not as if DH was going on about poly or anything like that. It's familial love and romantic love. Different types of love, and one does not detract from the other in any way.
Ultimately, intent matters. Could both YH and DH have communicated better? Yes. Were they perfect? No.
But YH was verbally and emotionally abusive, and gaslighted him while doing everything from havig a full blown affair with his abusive boss behind his back, to telling JA that now that she was no longer with the boss and it was not her business anymore, she didn't care even if DH was framed and fired. Pluss all the other stuff she did.
DH simply never did a fraction of that to her. He never treated her with a fraction of the lack of loyalty, honesty and respect. He was committed and devoted to her. He wanted to support her and make her happy (he just wouldn't compromise his core values to do it), and everything, from taking care of the housework and making sure she could come back to a tidy home so she could focus on her career, to putting up with his pain and loneliness in silence, rather than snapping and complaining to her like she did, was meant to support her.
YH's flashback was pretty telling: a bunch of scenes where she snapped at DH and treated him absolutely atrociously, verbally and emotionally abusing him while he put up with it in silence, but rather taking care of her in bed and feeding her porridge while knowing she had been having an affair. Or the confrontation with the boss, where he took him to task about not wanting to marry YH, despite reeling from the pain of finding her glove. Or trusting her unconditionally, and defending her to her brothers when they questioned her excuse of being on a business trip when she missed her own niece's wedding.
Ultimately, neither was perfect, but it's pretty clear who let the other down, for the most part. I mean, it's not even a fair contest. YH's behavior was incomparably worse than DH's on any level. Even in terms of loneliness, he too felt lonely and abandoned, and it's unclear to me why him not snapping at her, and putting up with it in silence, would make that unimportant. What, because he didn't complain it doesn't count?
Talking with her lover, YH was honest enough to recognize that this was about her and DH having different values, and that plenty of people wouldn't have had a problem with his values. And the show clearly demonstrates it, because, with absolutely no change in his values or behavior, JA is okay with it, and YH is okay with his younger brother's. I liked that the show didn't make DH abandon his values, or make it seem like they were wrong, but rather showed the viewer how those relationships were precious, and had JA and YR appreciate them.
If DH was the one that tried to distance JA from her grandma or hacker friend, trying to leverage the fact that he made her a favor, and that if she really loved her she would not consider her grandma family, and want to spend time with her, but would instead let him monopolize her attention and distance herself from friends and family. After all, he did her a favor, and so if she really loved him, why not relocate to a distant place where she wouldn't be in contact with her friends and family anymore? Otherwise it means she doesn't love him.
To me, that all sounds pretty crazy. Frankly, it's just that YH's actress gave a great performance, because when you actually look at the situation on its face, you would have to take note of the fact that basically nobody else, from JA to YR (DH's younger brother's gf) really has a problem with their relationship with friends and family (well, JA has the same outlook as DH on family, their values are aligned there).
It's simply untrue to say that YH was the only breadwinner. DH had a job, he was not just a househusband (not that there would have been anything wrong with that, and he was certainly more than willing to take care of the groceries and the housework, so YH could come back to a tidy house and she could focus on her career, because he wanted to support her), and supported his brothers economically (we see in the 1st episode that despite his monthly pay his account had very little money in it because of that). DH's brothers had encountered economic difficulties, but they did work, and supported their mother economically when they could (as did DH). It is worth noting that JH, the female owner of the bar, also contributed economically to DH's mother's expenses, without expecting anything in return, even if she was not her daughter in law or in any way related to her by familiar bonds.
It's again worth noting that DH did support his family economically while telling them that the money came from YH, such as in the 1st episode when he got money on credit from his account to give his older brother for his daughter's wedding, telling him they were from YH, since she couldn't be present. So they might believe that they came from her, when in fact it was from him. Again, like most things in the drama this wasn't an overstated scene.
YH did contribute economically, and was certainly keen to point it out to DH: namely, she paid about $20k for the house his mother currently lived in (depending on the translation it's unclear whether that part of the house's cost came from both of them). The house's value was $95k, and it was bought with a loan. YH also contributed to the brother's businesses in non-economic way, for example by bringing them clients. Notably, by her own admission, he did all that, and generally was nice to his mother, brothers and her sister in law, not out of genuine desire to do so, without expecting anything in return, but merely to get into DH's good graces so he would allow her to mold him into who she wanted. It was not genuine, without ulterior motive: she did have an ulterior motive, and it was entirely transactional (not to mention manipulative): contrast this with his older brother paying for JA's mother's funeral without expecting anything in return.
When it came time to start the new business, the mother considered mortaging the house, and ultimately DH had to be the one to take care of the situation. The older brother also borrowed money, for example from the guy that shamed him in front of his family that DH argued with. They didn't go ask YH for money. They clearly weren't exploiting YH economically and living off her.
It is also worth noting that it was not a one way street. DH's mother helped raise YH's kid so she could focus on her career. It seemed to me that it was absolutely appalling that she shouldn't be considered family. As, apparently, she didn't consider family her own niece, the daughter of the sister in law that consistently stood up to her and that very clearly treated YH's own son as family, given that YH missed the girl's wedding to spend time with her lover.
It was very clear that DH's brothers were grateful and appreciative of YH, as was her sister in law (who was always in her corner, despite the fact that YH missed her daughter's wedding to spend time with her lover and didn't even bother to call).
Again, I would just stress that on top of DH's brothers and DH himself sustaining his mom economically, and DH sustaining his brothers, there was also JH, the female owner of the bar, that economically sustained DH's mother, despite not being her daughter in law or part of the family. That's what genuine act without ulterior motives is.
DH's older brother's wife even spends time with her mother in law despite being separated from DH's brother. Frankly, I think that everyone considers DH's brothers and mother family, and they consider YH family, and DH's and YH's kid considers them all family, while she is the only one that doesn't consider them family and thinks DH shouldn't consider them family either, as if considering them family somehow detracted from his love for her (despite all his reassurances to the contrary). They all ask where she is when she isn't there (and she often isn't, now that her plan to ingratiate herself to DH to get him to distance himself from family and friends failed, she intentionally avoids meeting them with excuses, as she only spent time with them due to her ulterior motive of wanting to change DH's core values). They clearly consider her family, and treat her kid as family. DH's mother even helped raise the kid. Not family, somehow. It's just insulting, to me. I mean, you don't have to like your family, but to not even acknowledge that they are family? And they certainly liked her (at least before the two brothers discovered the affair, afterwards the younger one, correctly, didn't... he must have felt betrayed, considering how he always stood up for her).
DH's mother appreciated her as well, she simply had trouble communicating it, which YH's sister in law explained. But at DH's party, it was pretty clear that DH's mother appreciated and was grateful to YH. DH's mother had some old fashioned ideas (which were not shared by DH's brothers or DH himself, who correctly didn't see any issue with YH making more money than him), but in that context it was clear that her concern there was for YH, because she was sorry that she had to work so hard (her concern was misplaced because the truth is that YH enjoyed her work, and it's not as if now that DH makes more money she intended to stop working, in other words this is not something she did because she "had" to do, or a sacrifice, it's something she enjoyed and "wanted" to do).
In terms of the issues in YH's and DH's marriage, I frankly don't think it's fair to blame him for failing to convince her that family and friends mattered to him and that this didn't detract from what he felt for her. He did communicate this to her multiple times, and it's a pretty obvious concept: the same way her love for her kid does not detract from her love for her husband, his love for family and friends does not mean he loves her any less.
At a basic level, DH never hid his values and what family and friends meant to him. YH merely pretended to accept that, and acted nice with them without any genuine interest in getting to know them or establishing a genuine relationship, but with an ulterior motive of getting on DH's good side so he would adopt her outlook and distance himself from friends and family. Which he didn't owe her and she had no right to ask. When that failed, she simply stopped meeting them, avoided it with excuses, and DH had to justify her absence to his family and friends. Even at the marriage of YH's niece (compare how the girl's mother relates to YH's own child).
DH felt alone and abandoned as well, he merely didn't raise the issue because he was understanding and wanted to support YH (same reason he took care of the groceries and housework, making sure she found a tidy house when she came home). YH not being home, is not an excuse, it's a fact that she herself acknowledged. It's therefore unclear to me why only her perspective on the matter would count, while DH's loneliness shouldn't. It seems just petty and cruel to pretend he stood around in an empty house, rather than spend time with family and friends, if she was not going to be around anyway. Now, he put up with it in silence because he wanted to be supportive of her, but it's unclear to me why he should have been the only one to come up with a solution, given that she was the one to raise the issue, while she would just spurn the offer and not come up with a proposal of her own.
YH knew very well what DH's outlook on family and friends was, he never hid it or lied about it. She did lie, by pretending to be okay with it and to care about his family, and spent time with his family in order to get into DH's good graces, planning to mold him into who she wanted and to have him change his core values for her. That was never going to happen, and she didn't have the right to ask: he simply didn't owe it to her. When she failed, she simply stopped pretending and made up excuses to avoid family events. It's not that she was not invited, it's that she was, and made up excuses not to go, and DH had to justify her absence to his family. Then she would complain about not being there.
Quite clearly, both JA and YR clearly demonstrate how welcoming DH's family and friends were to someone that genuinely wanted to fit in with them. YH, quite simply, never did. Which is a shame, because JA and YR clearly value the neighborhood, and the viewer sees how precious those relationships are (I think DH's kid would be of the same opinion). They were also welcoming of YH at DH's promotion party. So it was not a matter of excluding her, but of her not having any interest in them.
Which is fine, I mean, while it's common for partners' friend groups to overlap, one is not obliged to have the same friend groups as one's partners. Nothing stopped YH from having her own friend group (they live in Seoul and she has a car: just like she was able to meet up with her lover, she could make time to spend time with friends). Frankly, she should have done that, rather than pretend that DH stopped valuing his life long friends. On some level, it does seem unfair and nonsensical to me that she would make him entirely responsible for her loneliness, when she was the one that turned down family events and wasn't interested in establishing a relationship with his friends in the first place, nor did she attempt to develop her own friendships.
If I were to give this a word, I would call it not being emotionally independent. Fundamentally, I think that one needs to be able to be happy by themselves, and only then can they hope to be happy in a relationship. You cannot really expect the other person to make you happy and push that responsibility on them. I feel that the show made this point as well, with the way that DH and JA are separated at the end, and each has to reach happiness by themselves.
It is also worth noting that YH did not even attempt to propose a compromise or reach a middle ground with DH. He was struggling with loneliness himself, but didn't want to bother her, so he put up with it in silence. Good, at least he didn't put the blame on her. He simply started spending more time with his friends and family. But if she didn't want that, she could have very well proposed a compromise (imho it should have come from her, given that she was the one that raised the issue, not from him, though of course he did propose a compromise himself, which she turned down without a counter-proposal).
In particular, I want to stress that physically separating her partner from lifelong friends and family and pretending that he changes his core values around family and community is neither fair nor, in any sense of the word, a "solution". It's not a compromise or middle ground. Frankly, it's unclear why the "solution" to her possessiveness, jealousy and irrational insecurities would not be to deal with them and address them, but to distance her partner from friends and family so as to remove that connection, or to pretend that he loves them less or values them less.
Frankly, this went beyond the small family vs extended family part. Not considering someone that raised your kid to be family? Or your own niece? Also, we are talking about DH's mother and brothers, not his cousin thrice removed. The label "extended family" makes no sense in this context.
On the "love" part, I found DH's words on that pretty incontrovertible. I mean, does YH's love for her child come at the expense of her love for her husband? I mean, it's not as if DH was going on about poly or anything like that. It's familial love and romantic love. Different types of love, and one does not detract from the other in any way.
Ultimately, intent matters. Could both YH and DH have communicated better? Yes. Were they perfect? No.
But YH was verbally and emotionally abusive, and gaslighted him while doing everything from havig a full blown affair with his abusive boss behind his back, to telling JA that now that she was no longer with the boss and it was not her business anymore, she didn't care even if DH was framed and fired. Pluss all the other stuff she did.
DH simply never did a fraction of that to her. He never treated her with a fraction of the lack of loyalty, honesty and respect. He was committed and devoted to her. He wanted to support her and make her happy (he just wouldn't compromise his core values to do it), and everything, from taking care of the housework and making sure she could come back to a tidy home so she could focus on her career, to putting up with his pain and loneliness in silence, rather than snapping and complaining to her like she did, was meant to support her.
YH's flashback was pretty telling: a bunch of scenes where she snapped at DH and treated him absolutely atrociously, verbally and emotionally abusing him while he put up with it in silence, but rather taking care of her in bed and feeding her porridge while knowing she had been having an affair. Or the confrontation with the boss, where he took him to task about not wanting to marry YH, despite reeling from the pain of finding her glove. Or trusting her unconditionally, and defending her to her brothers when they questioned her excuse of being on a business trip when she missed her own niece's wedding.
Ultimately, neither was perfect, but it's pretty clear who let the other down, for the most part. I mean, it's not even a fair contest. YH's behavior was incomparably worse than DH's on any level. Even in terms of loneliness, he too felt lonely and abandoned, and it's unclear to me why him not snapping at her, and putting up with it in silence, would make that unimportant. What, because he didn't complain it doesn't count?
Talking with her lover, YH was honest enough to recognize that this was about her and DH having different values, and that plenty of people wouldn't have had a problem with his values. And the show clearly demonstrates it, because, with absolutely no change in his values or behavior, JA is okay with it, and YH is okay with his younger brother's. I liked that the show didn't make DH abandon his values, or make it seem like they were wrong, but rather showed the viewer how those relationships were precious, and had JA and YR appreciate them.
If DH was the one that tried to distance JA from her grandma or hacker friend, trying to leverage the fact that he made her a favor, and that if she really loved her she would not consider her grandma family, and want to spend time with her, but would instead let him monopolize her attention and distance herself from friends and family. After all, he did her a favor, and so if she really loved him, why not relocate to a distant place where she wouldn't be in contact with her friends and family anymore? Otherwise it means she doesn't love him.
It should be apparent how crazy that all sounded. Frankly, it's just that YH's actress gave a great performance, because when you actually look at the situation on its face, you would have to take note of the fact that basically nobody else, from JA to YR (DH's younger brother's gf) really has a problem with their relationship with friends and family (well, JA has the same outlook as DH on family, their values are aligned there).
DH was not depressed because someone he hated became CEO, this was explicitly stated in the drama. Though certainly being abused and suppressed at work didn't help. Depression has multiple causes (in some cases, independent from one's life's material conditions). Before that, DH was the star of his department and was up for promotion.
DH did not have an issue making less money than YH (nor shouldn't he), though it's simply untrue to say that she was the only breadwinner: DH had a job, he was not just a househusband (not that there would have been anything wrong with that, and he was certainly more than willing to take care of the groceries and the housework, so YH could come back to a tidy house and she could focus on her career, because he wanted to support her).
As for the work, it's worth noting that the whole team was a target, and that they, and DH, didn't rebel for the obvious reason that they were without any power or leverage to change the situation, and would have been fired if they tried to do something about it: the ones oppressing them were the CEO's lackeys, and they could have hardly done anything against the CEO. As soon as DH got leverage over the CEO he used it to get him to treat the team fairly (notably, he didn't ask for any preferential treatment).
So, he did something about the situation as soon as he had the power to. This to me doesn't say anything bad about his character, and merely means that the depiction of the situation matters: power matters, and if those in charge want to oppress you, if you don't want to be fired there is little you can do about it. It's a realistic portrayal of what would actually happen, rather than a fantasy.
It is simply not true that DH, his brothers and his mother were exploiting YH economically and living off her.
DH had his own job, and supported his brothers economically (we see in the 1st episode that despite his monthly pay his account had very little money in it because of that). DH's brothers had encountered economic difficulties, but they did work, and supported their mother economically when they could (as did DH). It is worth noting that JH, the female owner of the bar, also contributed economically to DH's mother's expenses, without expecting anything in return, even if she was not her daughter in law or in any way related to her by familiar bonds.
it is worth noting that DH did support his family economically while telling them that the money came from YH, such as in the 1st episode when he got money on credit from his account to give his older brother for his daughter's wedding, telling him they were from YH, since she couldn't be present. So they might believe that they came from her, when in fact it was from him. Again, like most things in the drama this wasn't an overstated scene.
YH did contribute economically, and was certainly keen to point it out to DH: namely, she paid about $20k for the house his mother currently lived in (depending on the translation it's unclear whether that part of the house's cost came from both of them). The house's value was $95k, and it was bought with a loan. YH also contributed to the brother's businesses in non-economic way, for example by bringing them clients. Notably, by her own admission, he did all that, and generally was nice to his mother, brothers and her sister in law, not out of genuine desire to do so, without expecting anything in return, but merely to get into DH's good graces so he would allow her to mold him into who she wanted. It was not genuine, without ulterior motive: she did have an ulterior motive, and it was entirely transactional (not to mention manipulative): contrast this with his older brother paying for JA's mother's funeral without expecting anything in return.
When it came time to start the new business, the mother considered mortaging the house, and ultimately DH had to be the one to take care of the situation. The older brother also borrowed money, for example from the guy that shamed him in front of his family that DH argued with. They didn't go ask YH for money. They clearly weren't exploiting YH economically and living off her.
It is also worth noting that it was not a one way street. DH's mother helped raise YH's kid so she could focus on her career. It seemed to me that it was absolutely appalling that she shouldn't be considered family. As, apparently, she didn't consider family her own niece, the daughter of the sister in law that consistently stood up to her and that very clearly treated YH's own son as family, given that YH missed the girl's wedding to spend time with her lover.
It was very clear that DH's brothers were grateful and appreciative of YH, as was her sister in law (who was always in her corner, despite the fact that YH missed her daughter's wedding to spend time with her lover and didn't even bother to call).
Again, I would just stress that on top of DH's brothers and DH himself sustaining his mom economically, and DH sustaining his brothers, there was also JH, the female owner of the bar, that economically sustained DH's mother, despite not being her daughter in law or part of the family. That's what genuine act without ulterior motives is.
DH's older brother's wife even spends time with her mother in law despite being separated from DH's brother. Frankly, I think that everyone considers DH's brothers and mother family, and they consider YH family, and DH's and YH's kid considers them all family, while she is the only one that doesn't consider them family and thinks DH shouldn't consider them family either, as if considering them family somehow detracted from his love for her (despite all his reassurances to the contrary). They all ask where she is when she isn't there (and she often isn't, now that her plan to ingratiate herself to DH to get him to distance himself from family and friends failed, she intentionally avoids meeting them with excuses, as she only spent time with them due to her ulterior motive of wanting to change DH's core values). They clearly consider her family, and treat her kid as family. DH's mother even helped raise the kid. Not family, somehow. It's just insulting, to me. I mean, you don't have to like your family, but to not even acknowledge that they are family? And they certainly liked her (at least before the two brothers discovered the affair, afterwards the younger one, correctly, didn't... he must have felt betrayed, considering how he always stood up for her).
DH's mother appreciated her as well, she simply had trouble communicating it. She was "tsundere", in that sense ;) Which YH's sister in law explained. But at DH's party, it was pretty clear that DH's mother appreciated and was grateful to YH. DH's mother had some old fashioned ideas (which were not shared by DH's brothers or DH himself, who correctly didn't see any issue with YH making more money than him), but in that context it was clear that her concern there was for YH, because she was sorry that she had to work so hard (her concern was misplaced because the truth is that YH enjoyed her work, and it's not as if now that DH makes more money she intended to stop working, in other words this is not something she did because she "had" to do, or a sacrifice, it's something she enjoyed and "wanted" to do).
On YH not being home, that's not an excuse, it's a fact that she herself acknowledged. It's therefore unclear to me why only her perspective on the matter would count, while DH's loneliness shouldn't. It seems just petty and cruel to pretend he stood around in an empty house, rather than spend time with family and friends, if she was not going to be around anyway. Now, he put up with it in silence because he wanted to be supportive of her, but it's unclear to me why he should have been the only one to come up with a solution, given that she was the one to raise the issue, while she would just spurn the offer and not come up with a proposal of her own.
YH knew very well what DH's outlook on family and friends was, he never hid it or lied about it. She did lie, by pretending to be okay with it and to care about his family, and spent time with his family in order to get into DH's good graces, planning to mold him into who she wanted and to have him change his core values for her. That was never going to happen, and she didn't have the right to ask: he simply didn't owe it to her. When she failed, she simply stopped pretending and made up excuses to avoid family events. It's not that she was not invited, it's that she was, and made up excuses not to go, and DH had to justify her absence to his family. Then she would complain about not being there.
Quite clearly, both JA and YR clearly demonstrate how welcoming DH's family and friends were to someone that genuinely wanted to fit in with them. YH, quite simply, never did. Which is a shame, because JA and YR clearly value the neighborhood, and the viewer sees how precious those relationships are (I think DH's kid would be of the same opinion). They were also welcoming of YH at DH's promotion party. So it was not a matter of excluding her, but of her not having any interest in them.
Which is fine, I mean, while it's common for partners' friend groups to overlap, one is not obliged to have the same friend groups as one's partners. Nothing stopped YH from having her own friend group (they live in Seoul and she has a car: just like she was able to meet up with her lover, she could make time to spend time with friends). Frankly, she should have done that, rather than pretend that DH stopped valuing his life long friends. On some level, it does seem unfair and nonsensical to me that she would make him entirely responsible for her loneliness, when she was the one that turned down family events and wasn't interested in establishing a relationship with his friends in the first place, nor did she attempt to develop her own friendships.
If I were to give this a word, I would call it not being emotionally independent. Fundamentally, I think that one needs to be able to be happy by themselves, and only then can they hope to be happy in a relationship. You cannot really expect the other person to make you happy and push that responsibility on them. I feel that the show made this point as well, with the way that DH and JA are separated at the end, and each has to reach happiness by themselves.
It is also worth noting that YH did not even attempt to propose a compromise or reach a middle ground with DH. He was struggling with loneliness himself, but didn't want to bother her, so he put up with it in silence. Good, at least he didn't put the blame on her. He simply started spending more time with his friends and family. But if she didn't want that, she could have very well proposed a compromise (imho it should have come from her, given that she was the one that raised the issue, not from him, though of course he did propose a compromise himself, which she turned down without a counter-proposal).
In particular, I want to stress that physically separating her partner from lifelong friends and family and pretending that he changes his core values around family and community is neither fair nor, in any sense of the word, a "solution". It's not a compromise or middle ground. Frankly, it's unclear why the "solution" to her possessiveness, jealousy and irrational insecurities would not be to deal with them and address them, but to distance her partner from friends and family so as to remove that connection, or to pretend that he loves them less or values them less.
Frankly, this went beyond the small family vs extended family part. Not considering someone that raised your kid to be family? Or your own niece? Also, we are talking about DH's mother and brothers, not his cousin thrice removed. The label "extended family" makes no sense in this context.
On the "love" part, I found DH's words on that pretty incontrovertible. I mean, does YH's love for her child come at the expense of her love for her husband? I mean, it's not as if DH was going on about poly or anything like that. It's familial love and romantic love. Different types of love, and one does not detract from the other in any way.
Ultimately, intent matters. Could both YH and DH have communicated better? Yes. Were they perfect? No.
But YH was verbally and emotionally abusive, and gaslighted him while doing everything from havig a full blown affair with his abusive boss behind his back, to telling JA that now that she was no longer with the boss and it was not her business anymore, she didn't care even if DH was framed and fired. Pluss all the other stuff she did.
DH simply never did a fraction of that to her. He never treated her with a fraction of the lack of loyalty, honesty and respect. He was committed and devoted to her. He wanted to support her and make her happy (he just wouldn't compromise his core values to do it), and everything, from taking care of the housework and making sure she could come back to a tidy home so she could focus on her career, to putting up with his pain and loneliness in silence, rather than snapping and complaining to her like she did, was meant to support her.
YH's flashback was pretty telling: a bunch of scenes where she snapped at DH and treated him absolutely atrociously, verbally and emotionally abusing him while he put up with it in silence, but rather taking care of her in bed and feeding her porridge while knowing she had been having an affair. Or the confrontation with the boss, where he took him to task about not wanting to marry YH, despite reeling from the pain of finding her glove. Or trusting her unconditionally, and defending her to her brothers when they questioned her excuse of being on a business trip when she missed her own niece's wedding.
Ultimately, neither was perfect, but it's pretty clear who let the other down, for the most part. I mean, it's not even a fair contest. YH's behavior was incomparably worse than DH's on any level. Even in terms of loneliness, he too felt lonely and abandoned, and it's unclear to me why him not snapping at her, and putting up with it in silence, would make that unimportant. What, because he didn't complain it doesn't count?
Talking with her lover, YH was honest enough to recognize that this was about her and DH having different values, and that plenty of people wouldn't have had a problem with his values. And the show clearly demonstrates it, because, with absolutely no change in his values or behavior, JA is okay with it, and YH is okay with his younger brother's. I liked that the show didn't make DH abandon his values, or make it seem like they were wrong, but rather showed the viewer how those relationships were precious, and had JA and YR appreciate them.
If DH was the one that tried to distance JA from her grandma or hacker friend, trying to leverage the fact that he made her a favor, and that if she really loved her she would not consider her grandma family, and want to spend time with her, but would instead let him monopolize her attention and distance herself from friends and family. After all, he did her a favor, and so if she really loved him, why not relocate to a distant place where she wouldn't be in contact with her friends and family anymore? Otherwise it means she doesn't love him.
To me, that all sounds pretty crazy. Frankly, it's just that YH's actress gave a great performance, because when you actually look at the situation on its face, you would have to take note of the fact that basically nobody else, from JA to YR (DH's younger brother's gf) really has a problem with their relationship with friends and family (well, JA has the same outlook as DH on family, their values are aligned there).