Jackson Wang on being deceived, Asians having it hard in the West, and more

On March 29, the day after Jackson Wang's 32nd birthday, iWeekly met him at a residence northeast of Los Angeles. It was an American-style house built in the 1880s. Light filtered through its time-worn window frames, carrying a certain slow and quiet sense of time. There, iWeekly completed his first shoot after turning 32.

His attitude toward birthdays is now restrained. After entering his thirties, he no longer sees it as a moment that needs to be specially marked. But while traveling across time zones, he still left a brief update on social media, like a minimal response to time itself.

How has the first day of being 32 been like?

After I turned 30, I stopped celebrating my birthday. I don't want to. But I still thank my parents every birthday — thank them for bringing me into this world. I'm very happy, and I'm proud to be their son. I call them before every birthday countdown.

Today also marks a full year since GBAD. What new rhythm have you entered into since this song, or rather, the entire MAGICMAN 2?

There have been so many new rhythms. There are so many things to announce this year. Production work for my next album is already done, and it's in a completely new direction. Because with the previous album, MAGICMAN 2, I never thought about what the public would like. It was entirely my diary. Because I come from a very specific system — I started in a boy band, then went solo — I've gone through a lot [of different experiences]. 

So I've been thinking that when I was younger, I felt like I had to do something "cool", but I didn't actually know what "cool" meant. Then with the last album, it was entirely my personal stuff, because I felt I should bring out an artist's attitude and express something personal about myself. I felt I had to make this kind of album at least once in my life. After making it, I felt like I could do anything, so I've even finished the next album.

So you no longer define what "cool" is?

I think "cool" means daring to be yourself, daring to be okay with [navigate or deal with] popularity, and also daring to be okay with [live with] reality. Being sufficiently true to yourself — whether it brings attention or not. Just expressing who you are is enough. Because I feel many people aren't very good at expressing themselves a lot, and even when they do, the intention behind that can be different.

Do you still keep a diary?

No, I don't anymore. I've written everything I needed to write. There's nothing left to write.

Can you still recall your state of mind when you were writing your diary back then?

Because I've been deceived my whole life. I've never really worked in society [in the traditional sense]. I've never had a 9-to-5 job like that. I've been quite outgoing since childhood, and I also tend to trust people easily. I used to think, "There's no reason [for anyone] to lie to me." Because artists are actually very lonely people — especially someone like me who spends more than 80% of the year traveling for work. 

The people around me, or even those closest to me, weren't much [to rely on] — like if I had a partner, a girlfriend, or a wife with me, maybe it would've been different. Maybe it would've been different if I had children. But I didn't have anyone to rely on. I could only rely on myself and the people [who were] with me on day to day. At the same time, everyone had their own aims. That's how it was back then.

Can we understand it as: with the ending of MAGICMAN 2, the character you created is also disappearing, and the part of yourself in your subconscious is disappearing as well?

It's already done. I was completely fine when I released that album —that's exactly why I can talk about it so openly now. Even though I'm still on tour, I often tell everyone that this is something I went through, but I've already recovered from it. So a person's mindset and perspective are very important. Every industry is difficult; what matters is how you choose to see it.

There is an old Chinese saying: 此消彼长 ["as one side declines, the other grows"]. As a part of your past self disappears, does it also bring a new part of you into being?

Everything that happened in the past was meant to happen. If those things hadn't happened, I wouldn't be where I am now. Now I'm in a state where I've completely let go, and I've also come to understand that being selfish is not necessarily a bad thing.

I recently read a viewpoint from a writer who said that creators should also be selfish.

They should be. How should I put it… only when you're selfish enough can you influence others.

If what has happened in the past was bound to happen, does that make you believe in fate?

I believe that "Heavens are watching." Before many things are completed, we have to go through lessons — we have to pay the tuition [those lessons come with a cost]. It's often like that. For example, why do I not invest? Because I believe a person can make money with their own ability, and can also lose everything due to a lack of experience in another field. So I don't hold stocks, and I don't invest.

So the disappearance of "MAGICMAN" means a part of your past self has disappeared.

I think it's the me at my lowest point that disappeared — the unhappiest version of me. But at the same time, I’m grateful for that period, because it allowed me to see things more clearly, to grow, and to learn a lot. If you ask me, if I could start over once again, would I regret it? I'd still choose the same path.

You have a very meaningful tattoo: "Love, Trust, Principle."

I think you must have love, you must have trust, and most importantly, you must have principles. Because not everyone in this world has principles. We've been in this industry for a long time, and many people lack principles — their only goal is survival. But that doesn't mean that because they don't have principles, we also shouldn't have them. Everyone has a choice. Everyone can choose to conduct themselves [live] and act according to their own principles.

When did you get this tattoo?

It was when I was cheated the worst. Usually, people are either cheated out of money or reputation, right? But for me, neither money nor reputation is important. My heart was hurt. I often say that society is like a forest. 

Growing up, your family may protect you well. But once you step into society, it's like stepping into a forest — it's all a food chain. So you have to accept reality. Once you get hurt, you can only accept the pain, but you will definitely gradually grow. Over time, you realize this is the whole ecosystem. That's reality: a forest, a food chain. You have a choice to either submit [to it] or not submit [to it]. We choose not to submit.

So since getting this tattoo, what have you learned to love and believe in?

To love the people I truly love and to also love those who have invested in me [emotionally and practically] and love me. And to love those who share the same thoughts and way of thinking as me. These are all precious things that money cannot buy. Trust is the same. 

Because of this, you will definitely meet people who are on the same path as you, whose way of thinking and logic are similar to yours. That's why I often feel you don't need too many close friends. I believe many people might say, "Jackson is my good friend," but honestly, I don’t know. My best friends are actually only a few. We all have our own things, our own dreams.

So what principles have you established?

Principles are the most important. When it comes to collaboration [working together], it needs to make sense. Every collaboration is an exchange: I give you something, you give me something in return. Our principle is that once we agree to something, we deliver everything we promised. But often, you also encounter people who are unwilling to give, and in those cases, it becomes clear that you're not on the same page.

You've had similar experiences yourself.

Definitely. If we're collaborating, each of us will have KPIs and deliverables. If I deliver what I'm supposed to deliver but you don't, then it becomes very awkward. Looking back, the biggest misconception is that people think I'm just an entertainer, I don't understand anything — just a performer or "someone who sings for money." How could I understand business, law, or finance? From their perspective, they would never expect that I understand these things.

You've also written in your lyrics about "setting up the boundary." Where are your boundaries?

I think, in terms of work, letting professionals handle the professional work [let them do what they do best]. Work must be kept separate from personal life. Don't challenge human nature. I've been very outgoing since childhood, especially coming from an athletic background, where everyone feels like family. But society isn't like that. In society, you shouldn't challenge human nature.

Now, we can see a very distinct creator image [identity] in you.

There's no image. Before I returned to China, I didn't even know what it meant to build a "persona". After I came back, some people also suggested to me that I should learn how to build a persona, to establish a certain kind of image or identity. I've never really understood that.

Going back to your work as a creator, creating is a constant learning process. Have you developed your own techniques or methodology?

In my opinion, the only technique is this: when I was younger and first wanted to create something of my own, I didn't have much technical skill in that area. The only way I could go deeper was to learn more within that field — learning while doing.

Otherwise, for example, with TEAM WANG design, I initially worked with a very strong designer and just let them handle everything. I didn't need to do anything; just nod and say OK, and that was it. But I chose to do it step by step myself. I went to factories, checked materials, and did everything myself. I've slowly come this far. I've been continuously improving, and I've been doing my best. I just want to express myself. But if you ask whether there is some inspiration or things like that, there isn't really. It's just that whatever I feel in the moment, I go and make it happen.

So whether it's a song, a music video, or a piece of clothing, what's your standard for deciding whether it's "OK"?

I think it comes down to this: [once I feel I've reached] my limit, that's enough. Every time, I just need to win against myself. Otherwise, I could also make something more mainstream; that's possible too. But then it wouldn't be me. If I suddenly made a song like "Jumping Machine," would you believe it? You'd probably also think, "What is this?"

Do you also go back and review things?

As long as I make something and both my team and I feel, "Damn!" — that's enough. But after some time, we do go back and look at it again, and we might think certain parts aren't good, and then we learn again. And we also make sure that it's something we've always been focusing on, not something everyone else is doing. Just because someone else looks good in a certain outfit doesn't mean I will also look good wearing it. So you have to distinguish what is not yours.

What are you learning and focusing on at this stage?

I'm learning not to challenge human nature. Second, to let professionals handle professional work. Third, people often ask me what I do when I'm resting. Actually, I'm always in meetings because early-stage preparation is very important. Even though making a song or shooting only takes a day or two, and the performance on stage might only last a few hours, planning is crucial. Most of my time is spent reviewing. Many things will be officially announced this year.

But you still can't announce them yet.

No, not yet. But in a sense, everything has been upgraded. If I had to use a metaphor, it feels like I just finished a marathon, only for someone to tell me, "Your marathon has just begun" — that kind of feeling. We've been running for so many years. My team and I have been at it for eight or nine years. After running for so long, only now we're being told, "Okay, now we start." I feel there's no other way except to give our everything.

As far as you can share, what will the focus be going forward?

I will be leaning more toward the West. Because I feel, first of all, Asians don't have it easy, and within that, Chinese people even less so, especially in the entertainment industry. But "not easy" doesn't mean "impossible". I hope that while I still have the energy, I can be one of the people who go out there and try to break through. I want to give everything I've got and push forward — it doesn't necessarily determine success or failure. It's just that sometimes I feel…

Only by starting to run will you know your own results.

Yes, I don't want to spend too much time hesitating. What I often think about is that more Chinese people need to show themselves, even though it's very difficult right now.

Your tours in Europe, the US, and Latin America come one after another and are all at a very high-intensity pace. When you have this kind of high-intensity work, what kind of emotions do you have?

I don't have emotions. I just focus on getting the work done. I only care about results. Emotions, effort — all those things can be talked about.

On the other hand, do results affect your emotions?

It's a sense of achievement. At the same time, no one knows how much pain you've gone through, so you shouldn't complain — that's my morality.

Don't get caught up in proving yourself. 

Right. And don't feel like you're suffering so much, or that things are so difficult, or that going to the West means being discriminated against. Don't complain. Every industry is difficult — so who are you to complain?

For the future, what aspects [of your future identity, work, or path] do you hope are not defined too early?

I don't understand. I don't care who defines me.

For yourself?

I only care about results — whether it's OK or not OK, whether it can be done or not done.

How do you define "results"? Do you set goals?

If more Chinese people, even Asian people, can be seen, then I feel I've at least made a contribution. At least I've tried. If it doesn't work, so be it. I'll just retire.

Our theme for this issue is "Beyond Reality". Interestingly, you're an artist who is always being unexpectedly encountered in "reality", taking photos with everyone.

I go out quite often. When I have time, I often go out to observe. Because I work in the entertainment industry and also in lifestyle, all of it is inseparable from people. I often go out to see many [different] things — restaurants, parks, wherever. I need to see concrete things to understand the current vibe.

Any new observations lately?

You'll know from my next move.

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