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Xiang Liu and Xiao Yao’s Story and Romance

Kokuto
 KhanhN:

True

I'm not sure what you are referring to in this post.  What exactly is IT that we don't get to see in the novel?

Also, welcome!

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solarlunareclipse

@AH

Thanks for the thoughtful analysis of Chapter 43. I found it very insightful. I largely agree with the points you made, especially that XY was hoping to find Jing and not just to goad XL into saving her by walking into an obvious trap. It’s aggravating that XY risks both Miao Pu's and XL’s lives to go on this escapade, but we see a pattern of her acting irrationally and not thinking through the consequences of her actions when she’s depressed.

You can file most my original interpretation under “conspiracy theories from someone who is not a big fan of TSJ.”

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plor20
 solarlunareclipse:

@AH

Thanks for the thoughtful analysis of Chapter 43. I found it very insightful. I largely agree with the points you made, especially that XY was hoping to find Jing and not just to goad XL into saving her by walking into an obvious trap. It’s aggravating that XY risks both Miao Pu's and XL’s lives to go on this escapade, but we see a pattern of her acting irrationally and not thinking through the consequences of her actions when she’s depressed.

You can file most my original interpretation under “conspiracy theories from someone who is not a big fan of TSJ.”

I think Tong Hua wrote her book for all kinds of interpretation, with YaoLiu the most poetic of all. If you take the doublespeak and snake in the grass approach, you will have a totally different view. So when it comes to YaoLiu, no view is a conspiracy....except for Jingers than that's a different story. hehe. Everything Yaoliu is a conspiracy to them and the only love story is YaoJing (eye rolls). haha

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AH
 solarlunareclipse:
@AH

Thanks for the thoughtful analysis of Chapter 43. I found it very insightful. I largely agree with the points you made, especially that XY was hoping to find Jing and not just to goad XL into saving her by walking into an obvious trap.

Thanks for opening the discussion! ^^

 solarlunareclipse:
It’s aggravating that XY risks both Miao Pu's and XL’s lives to go on this escapade, but we see a pattern of her acting irrationally and not thinking through the consequences of her actions when she’s depressed.

Agreed. Although luckily Miao Pu got a future husband out of it, and we the readers got some great YaoLiu moments. ^^

 solarlunareclipse:
You can file most my original interpretation under “conspiracy theories from someone who is not a big fan of TSJ.”

Lol! Everyone's entitled to their own interpretations and headcanons anyways, but calling them conspiracy theories is hilarious. ^^

Perhaps some of those conspiracy theories will lead to some fic writing?

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AH
 fancy:
Aug 27, 2023 06:38 pm
peng-peng:
Hi, in which chapter in the book does XL meet TJC  and he is asked to kind of sabotage the wedding of XY with FL?

I'm pretty sure we don't actually get to see it in the novel. XL tells XY about it and TSJ elaborates when XY comes to see him. But I'd need to go reread the novel to be 100% sure.
 KhanhN:
KhanhN 10 hours ago
fancy:
I'm pretty sure we don't actually get to see it in the novel. XL tells XY about it and TSJ elaborates when XY comes to see him. But I'd need to go reread the novel to be 100% sure.

True
 Kokuto:
3 hours ago
KhanhN:
True

I'm not sure what you are referring to in this post.  What exactly is IT that we don't get to see in the novel?

Looks like KhanhN was agreeing with fancy's response to peng-peng saying that XL meeting TSJ and TSJ asking XL to stop XY's wedding isn't shown directly in the novel. 

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liddi

@H19279

Thank you for the comparison between recollections in LYF with the scenes in Once Promised. I just realised I missed out an excerpt in Ch9, which describes her longing for them to be able to be together freely as a family. I wonder now about the what-ifs had A Heng taken Chi Chen's hand then, for them as well as Xiao Yao (and by extension her relationship with Xiang Liu). It would probably be far less complicated, since there would be no concerns of opposing sides to begin with.

Chi You handed Xiao Yao over to A Heng. "If she were my daughter, I would definitely be the happiest man in the whole world." Just as A Heng was about to take Xiao Yao from him, Chi Chen grabbed hold of her with one hand while carrying Xiao Yao in the other, and said, "Come away with me!"

Chi Chen's grip hurt A Heng to the bone. With him holding their daughter and pulling her hand, they were together as a family. All that was needed was for her to gently turn her hand back and she could hold his hand and follow him into the vast world, carefree and unfettered.

She could not help wanting to hold on to Chi Chen tightly--

-- Once Promised Vol 2 Ch9 


 H19279:
I don't know if one of the last part of the novel related to the hint that you mentioned. I found A Heng's yearning for Chi Chen would be similar to XY's yearning for XL the rest of her life

Thank you too so much for sharing the translation of the epilogue for Once Promised, which is so devastatingly painful to read, imagining A Heng living in such an existence for the next 400 years, fulfilling the promise she made to Chi Chen to live on for him and their daughter. 

Based on the few short excerpts as well as the epilogue, I see a stylistic difference in prose between the two novels. LYF is far more restrained and nuanced, very much in keeping with the characters themselves who are often a closed book, be it to themselves or others.  

On the other hand, what little I read of Once Promised feels more passionate, uncomplicated in a way, far more direct and bold in its narrative approach, similar to its lead characters. Would that be a fair assessment?

Now more than ever, I need to find the time to read the novel. 

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blabla100

@solarlunareclipse

First of all, welcome and thank you for posting, I really did enjoy reading your interpretation on chapter 43, I love fleshy posts and I hope you keep them coming. 

About XY's reasons for rejecting XL în chapter 13

"Agree that in Chapter 13, Jing was only a secondary reason for XY rejecting XL. I think her primary reason for the rejection was her refusal to betray her family, particularly CX."

I personally firmly believe her main reason for rejecting him was due to his unwillingness to stay with her forever, only one's biggest fear can be scarier than death. XY pointed out quite often how this trauma works for her, she's scared to be abandoned, so instead of having and losing, she would rather not have at all. Also this fragment from chapter 13 is tightly related to chapter 29 IMO, let's remember that when they were having dinner with that old man and he started rambling about how FFB's life has no guarantee of tomorrow,  FFB used her own words from chapter 13 to make a point and agree with him.

"Let me tell you straight up, Fang Feng Bei’s life is here today with no guarantee of tomorrow. Even Jing who made a mistake is a better choice than Fang Feng Bei……..”

Xiao Yao slammed her wine bowl on the table and gave Li Jie Chang a piercing look “I’m already engaged and my fiancee isn’t him. So please, please, I beg you stop stepping all over Bei!”

..... 

Xiao Yao glared at Chang and said to Fang Feng Bei “You are sure even-tempered with this guy.”

Fang Feng Bei drank his wine and said casually “Every word he said is the truth. I’m not a guy suitable for a woman to follow. Isn’t that something you already know?”

On the same premise, I connect chapter 13 and 29 with chapter 32, when XY kept frantically trying to open the window, while XL kept closing it while stating the same sentence, that she knew since the beginning what type of man he is, one with his days counted and that their relationship is based only on a transaction. I see this scene as holding a secret meaning, one that they were both aware of and that's basically XL telling her to stop trying because it's pointless. 

"Xiang Liu walked into the room and closed the window for her.

Xiao Yao opened it. Xiang Liu closed it again.

Xiao Yao opened it again. Xiang Liu closed it again.

Xiao Yao went to open it again but Xiang Liu used his power and Xiao Yao couldn’t open it at all.

Even since she left Chi Sui Castle, Xiao Yao had been calm but now she couldn’t endure it any longer and punched the window violently before glaring at Xiang Liu.

Xiang Liu coolly said “What kind of person I am, you’ve known all along. Since you dared to make a deal with the devil, you ought to have the courage to accept the consequences.”

What was his reason for asking her with whom she most want to spend her entire life with right after this scene with him reminding her that everything between them it's just a deal was played out it's still confusing to me, but I am thinking of him wanting to check if his work of pushing her away finally paid off as an option too, giving what he put her through with the wedding and the death of FFB. He specifically said her entire life, thus I am not convinced he wanted her to say his name,  since not longer than before he pointed to the fact that he is not suitable / knew since the beginning that everything between them îs just a deal. Could it be that he just had a moment of weakness thought. 

Also, I don't believe it has much to do with XL being CX's enemy because XY was quite happy when XL told her to keep making poisons for him. Obviously she still accepted him in her life as before, regardless of now being CX's sister, it made no difference actually. It has more to do with her being a girl now, she didn't have the cover up of being a male anymore. Let's remember how frantic she got in the pool, even before getting her identity as CX's sister back, when they had that moment that definetely caused some sexual tensioned between them. 

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blabla100

The way I personally interpret chapter 13 and her so called rejection / confession îs like this

XL went to see her, he tried to air kiss her as he did before but she refused. Giving that, he thought WXL took him for a fool and everything was all lies and basically a charade from her part. They get on the surface and XY is able to explain herself to him and convince him that that's not true. She offered him the poisons she made for him and the mood îs back on track. Seeing how XY was not set on cut him off from her life and that she is happy to keep things more or less as before, he asked her why didn't she kiss him if nothing changed between them. XY went along and told him that she is scared. Scared of what? Scared because she is now a girl who's prone to dream and she is afraid of falling for him, because, as that old man explained în chapter 29, his life has no guarantee of tomorrow. That, to her, is scarier than death, giving her fair share of people who ended up abandoning her down the road.

 That was the moment when XL understood the whole situation and there is no doubt în my mind that him approaching her as FFB afterwards was not with the intention of raising up her hopes or prove to her that he is suitable for a girl to start dreaming of him. As stated before, FFB was a playboy, even CX was surprised as hell when XY seemed interested în his background. He told her something along the lines of "you can't possible be interested in someone like him", he was genuinly puzzled, because he knew XY well enough to know that FFB persoana is far away from what she wants în a man. Ofc, XY asked him to find out more about FFB's past because she had just found out with certainty that FFB is XL, but CX was clueless and his reaction speaks volumes to me. 

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ZYHLJ

Guys, I want to share a poem with you. If you've discussed this poem before, please ignore this post.:-)

This poem, written by the fourteenth-century Chinese poet Wang Mian during the Mongol rule of China, is called 《劲草行》 (Song of Jin Cao) and is the origin of the lyrics of the military song Xiao Yao heard in the camp of Chenrong Army.

劲草行

中原地古多劲草，节如箭竹花如稻。
白露洒叶珠离离，十月霜风吹不倒。
萋萋不到王孙门，青青不盖谗佞坟。
游根直下土百尺，枯荣暗抱忠臣魂。
我问忠臣为何死，元是汉家不降士。
白骨沉埋战血深，翠光潋滟腥风起。
山南雨晴蝴蝶飞，山北雨冷麒麟悲。
寸心摇摇为谁道，道旁可许愁人知？
昨夜东风鸣羯鼓，髑髅起作摇头舞。
寸田尺宅且勿论，金马铜驼泪如雨。

Translation:

The song of Jin Cao

The Central Plains has a long and rich history, where there is a kind of tenacious grass, called Jin Cao. Its nodes are like arrow bamboo and its flowers are like ears of rice.
The autumn dew glistened and shone on its leaves, even the frosty October wind could not blow it down.
No matter how lush it grows, it does not go to the door of the Mongolian nobility, no matter how strong it grows, it does not go to the grave of a minister who flattered and smeared.
Its roots can reach a hundred feet into the earth, and whether withered or flourishing, they haunt and guard the souls of the faithful.
I asked why did the faithful die?It turned out that they were Han warriors who refused to surrender.
The bones and blood they sacrificed for their country were buried deep in the ground, the green ghost fire flashing, and the fishy wind rose in the air.
On the south side of the mountain, the weather is sunny and the butterflies fly, on the north side of the mountain, the wind and rain are cold and the Kylin is weeping (the traitors who serve the Mongolians live well, the loyal people are still worrying about their country).
The leaves of Jin Cao rustle in the wind, for whom you are telling? Can you tell the sad man on the side of the road?
Last night's east wind seemed to bring the enemy's battle drums again, and the skeletons of the soldiers shook their heads and sighed in the wind.
I am not sorry for this body, I am sad about the bronze horse in front of the Han Dynasty palace gate and the bronze camel in front of the Jin Dynasty palace gate.

Whenever I think of this poem, I think of Xiang Liu. "Even the frosty October wind could not blow it down." Besides, although we think the Chenrong soldiers are stubborn, they may have their reasons.

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ZYHLJ

Although I have said it in this thread before, I can't help but want to retell my understanding of Xiang Liu after reading your discussion, hoping to find someone who thinks the same way as me :-)

In my opinion, Xiang Liu never "wanted to die", but he was clearly aware that if he remained loyal to the Chenrong Army, then eventually the Xiyan Kingdom would make a national effort to make sure he disappeared forever and completely to avoid any future troubles, this is a common political operation, just like what happened to him in the end. Like Xiao Yao once told Cang Xuan, if it were a one-on-one duel, no one in Dahuang could defeat Xiang Liu, but after all he is only one person, how could he defeat an entire country (actually, in the end, three countries, the whole world)?

Xiang Liu does not want to die, but he cannot abandon his adoptive father and comrades. As long as he lives, he will protect them. It was not that he wanted to die, but that he did not want to give up his duties in order to live, and he did not want Xiao Yao to marry someone who might die soon, so he did not pursue her. How could a man who loved life so much that he had collected almost every good restaurant in Dahuang, and elaborately designed every clothes he conjured, have a death wish?He also said himself, "As long as there is such scenery between heaven and earth, life is very precious."

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blabla100

@ZYHLJ

"In my opinion, Xiang Liu never "wanted to die", but he was clearly aware that if he remained loyal to the Chenrong Army, then eventually the Xiyan Kingdom would make a national effort to make sure he disappeared forever and completely"

"Xiang Liu does not want to die, but he cannot abandon his adoptive father and comrades. As long as he lives, he will protect them. It was not that he wanted to die, but that he did not want to give up his duties in order to live, and he did not want Xiao Yao to marry someone who might die soon, so he did not pursue her. "

That's definetely my take on things  too.

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Kokuto
 blabla100:
let's remember that when they were having dinner with that old man and he started rambling about how FFB's life has no guarantee of tomorrow, FFB used her own words from chapter 13 to make a point and agree with him.

"Let me tell you straight up, Fang Feng Bei’s life is here today with no guarantee of tomorrow. Even Jing who made a mistake is a better choice than Fang Feng Bei……..”

Xiao Yao slammed her wine bowl on the table and gave Li Jie Chang a piercing look “I’m already engaged and my fiancee isn’t him. So please, please, I beg you stop stepping all over Bei!”

Doesn't this scene take place after Jing is married, or XY has found out that FFYY is pregnant?  How is a married guy a better choice than FFB?  Isn't Li Jie Chang the gambling den owner of the fighting slave arena, who is also being supported financially by Jing?  Wasn't he spying on XY with Jing, right before this scene?  Isn't If so, I think he's beyond biased, obviously pushing his guy Jing, just as CX pushes his guy Feng Long.


 blabla100:
Xiao Yao glared at Chang and said to Fang Feng Bei “You are sure even-tempered with this guy.”

Fang Feng Bei drank his wine and said casually “Every word he said is the truth. I’m not a guy suitable for a woman to follow. Isn’t that something you already know?”

And how many times has FFB lied to XY?  How many times has he answered a question with a question?  How many times has XL said something he didn't neccesarily believe or that was untrue or that was done, just to push XY away?  I don't think XL thinks XY really is unworthy or an idiot -- both of which he has told her too.

These are unreliable of characters, i.e. ones who don't always tell the whole truth.

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Kokuto
 ZYHLJ:
As long as he lives, he will protect them. It was not that he wanted to die, but that he did not want to give up his duties in order to live, and he did not want Xiao Yao to marry someone who might die soon, so he did not pursue her.

Except he didn't protect them, when he had the choice of hurting XY or protecting them.  He chose XY and let CX live.

And if he didn't want XY to marry someone who might die soon, then he should have left Jing dead.  Besides being hopelessly incompetent at protecting himself, Jing's lifespan was massively shortened.

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Kokuto
 ZYHLJ:
In my opinion, Xiang Liu never "wanted to die", but he was clearly aware that if he remained loyal to the Chenrong Army, then eventually the Xiyan Kingdom would make a national effort to make sure he disappeared forever and completely to avoid any future troubles, this is a common political operation, just like what happened to him in the end.

There's plenty of folks who agree with you this. :)

The Xiyan Kingdom had been making a national effort to eradicate XL for hundreds of years, and the Resistance Army since they 'conquered' Chenrong, long before XL joined them.  Xiyan failed.  The only reason they succeeded at the end, was because of CX -- and Haolin stupidly caving in to him, and agreeing to national erradication.

People keep saying the Resistance Army was doomed from the start, but that's not true.  Things were at a stalemate, and a successful assassination or an accident or an early imperial death, could have tipped the scales away from Xiyan.  Given who makes them, I think the statements that people keep pointing to are meant as foreshadowing, rather than knowledgable opinions or magical prophecy. 

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blabla100

@kokuto

"Doesn't this scene take place after Jing is married, or XY has found out that FFYY is pregnant?  How is a married guy a better choice than FFB? "

Yes, exactly. To answer your question of why a married guy îs a better choice than FFB, I am going to QUOTE  more of what that old man told her. 

" Li Jie Chang leaned over towards Xiao Yao “There is no perfect thing in this world and everyone makes mistakes. Jing made a mistake but it’s not an unforgivable mistake. Think about it, because he made the mistake now he’ll never make the same mistake again. After marriage you won’t even need to worry about him! You try finding a man who has never made a mistake, and even if you do you can’t guarantee he won’t make a mistake after marriage. Then you’ll be even more upset!”

Xiao Yao asked “Are you done?”

Li Jie Chang said “No!”

Xiao Yao turned her head and poured wine for Fang Feng Bei, clearly not intending to hear more.

Li Jie Chang said “You don’t like the wife and son in Qing Qiu, then just have another residence here in Zhi Yi and have Jing live here with you. Let me tell you straight up, Fang Feng Bei’s life is here today with no guarantee of tomorrow. Even Jing who made a mistake is a better choice than Fang Feng Bei……..”

He is definetely not biased towards Jing when he tells her these things, just honest. He spoke about FFB as referring to XL, so I am pretty sure he knew both Jing and XL quite well. 

"And how many times has FFB lied to XY?  How many times has he answered a question with a question?  How many times has XL said something he didn't neccesarily believe or that was untrue or that was done, just to push XY away?  I don't think XL thinks XY really is unworthy or an idiot -- both of which he has told her too."

No, that's quite different. As far as I remember FFB / XL not once lied to her with anything. Dodging a question or calling her an idiot because he got pissed off due to her lack of will is different than point blank stating or agreeing to a fact. 

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