Xiang Liu and Xiao Yao’s Story and Romance

AkuMau:
In Lost You Forever, the character theme song for Xiangliu, “The Waiting That Never Comes”, does it refer to Xiangliu waiting in vain for Xiaoyao to choose him, or Xiaoyao waiting in vain for Xiangliu?

It's XL waiting for XY to deal with her abandonment issue and be in the place to give their relationship a go. Alas, she was too busy not dealing with her problem, so it became waiting for something that never came.

Kokuto

23 days ago

AkuMau:
I'm just curious and want to see the video, because previously I posted an article discussing the additional letters from the four men to Xiaoyao. In Tushan Jing's additional letter to Xiaoyao, it was mentioned that there were inserted images of Xiaoyao looking at FFB—first during their initial meeting, and second when FFB was in Xiaoyao's room. I feel that this additional letter is more than just an ordinary letter.

Ah yes. I remember that post. I'm not sure of the source of these letters, as I think they were put by the yogurt sponsor.

Here's Jing's. All four of them are in that topic. Wait. Three of them. I don't see Feng Long's.

https://kisskh.at/discussions/lost-you-forever/119233-love-letters-to-xiao-yao-from-cang-xuan-xiang-liu-and-tushan-jing?pid=2720355&page=1#p2720355

BTW, thank you posting these finds. I have enjoyed the ones I've read, even if I don't agree with them. They bring up interesting points and things to consider, as well as new bits of information. I just haven't had the time to respond to them. :(

Kokuto

23 days ago

HeadInTheClouds:
It's XL waiting for XY to deal with her abandonment issue and be the place to give their relationship a go. Alas, she was too busy not dealing with her problem, so it became waiting for something that never came.

Me flopping around looking for the like button that doesn't exist. lol

Kokuto

23 days ago

HeadInTheClouds:
So whenever someone claimed that Jing didn't go against his grandmother because he was "filial" - hahahah.

Oh wow. I missed that! But it is so true! And I don't buy it was for the good of the land / people either, or that he'd have done it without XY's influence. Before Jing met XY, the dude was selling to both sides of the war, which did nothing but prolong the hostilities. Even after XY, when he was helping CX, he was STILL helping XL and the Chenrong resistance, if it benefited him.

HeadInTheClouds

23 days ago

Kokuto:
Me flopping around looking for the like button that doesn't exist. lol

Another thing that kisskh should consider adding to these boards. We're in 2025, and these boards are barely adequate. Give us other emoticons on the main/public boards as well. The heart alone is inadequate. Some comments deserved a hearty laugh or a "preach it" expression.

Kokuto

23 days ago

HeadInTheClouds:
Another thing that kisskh should consider adding to these boards. We're in 2025, and these boards are barely adequate. Give us other emoticons on the main/public boards as well. The heart alone is inadequate. Some comments deserved a hearty laugh or a "preach it" expression.

Heh ... they some of us would go crazy. lol

HeadInTheClouds

23 days ago

Snowcup:
This reminds me of a prior discussion on Tong Hua’s “Ashes of Time” comments. For those curious, there’s additional context (including an English translation of the author’s remarks and a brief description and discussion of Wong Kar Wai’s film) with some interesting parallels and divergences there. It might offer a useful comparison to the topic. For reference:
Translation of Tong Hua’s comments (2nd quote): here
Brief description and discussion of “Ashes of Time”: here

I don't doubt that Tong Hua took inspiration from other things that she read - she is a well-read, well-learned lady. I just don't take her musings on her inspirations as 100% applicable to the story. Inferences and extrapolations are necessary in reading, but there should be a limit and some of these theories (not in these posts that you linked to) are too much for me. I enjoy reading them - quite fun - but I don't subscribe to them.

Ashes of Time is an interesting movie. The theme appeared to be about the longing for love that didn't come to fruition, resulting in regrets and torment that even time couldn't heal. And some really bad communication. Lol! That does sound like LYF, doesn't it? Like LYF it also focus on the characters' internal struggles played through their relationships.

Was the character of South Emperor presented in the movie? We have East Heretic, West Poison, North Beggar, even Dugu Quibai and the Murong family made appearances, but where was South Emperor?

Have you read the Liang Yu Sheng's novel featuring the Wu Xuanshuang character that TH referenced in her post? The relationships in that one also bear resemblances to the relationships in LYF.

HeadInTheClouds

22 days ago

blabla100:
I agree that it's quite weird that everyone knew more about the bugs than XY did, when it should have been the other way around, but I am guessing it's just a plot hole. No matter how I read the novel, there's nothing that makes me believe that she knew what type of bugs were. I have yet to see an explaination that could actually make me change my mind.

This was also one of the things that I couldn't reconcile. XY was given these bugs by the woman that she saved. Why would you give something highly dangerous to your saviour without thoroughly explaining what they are and how to use them? These bugs are also more difficult to raise compared to your standard mother-child bugs, and yet, XY managed to raise them successfully. I guess it was through sheer luck?? But there was nothing to suggest that she knew what they were before her conversation with She Mei’er. Someone hypothesised that XY was not surprised about the name, but rather that she was confused about the fact that it was difficult to plant, since she planted in CX and XL. Her first question to She Mei'er after hearing their name was about why it was difficult to plant since half the world is male.

Whether XY knew or not, I believe XL thought that she knew. When she was being evasive about them while he was questioning her, he called out her shifty-ness. This would double the feelings of betrayal when he found out about her real identity. When he confronted her outside of the Dragon Bone prison and she said she was planning to pretend not to know him when they met again, he commented that he still had her bugs in him; was she planning on going back on her words?

blabla100

22 days ago

@HeadInTheClouds

"Someone hypothesised that XY was not surprised about the name, but rather that she was confused about the fact that it was difficult to plant, since she planted in CX and XL. Her first question to She Mei'er after hearing their name was about why it was difficult to plant since half the world is male."

That's interesting. I'll definetely re-read that part, to see if that's a possibility. There's a lot of hidden context in the She Mei'er fragment. Tong Hua didn't reveal to the readers the initial discussion XY had with her, what we got is XY asking Jing to bring her to his grandma because she wanted to have his grandma's bug checked, but later we found out that behind closed doors she also asked She Mei'er about her own bug. I guess on the surface the excuse was that she wanted to help Jing's grandma, but the real reason was that she wanted to find out more about her own bug, but what's been said in their discussion the reader didn't got to witness.

I don't recall what XY knew about the bugs at first, but did she at least know that they are a pair of female and male bugs? I am asking this, because I always thought it's a bit weird how she chose to plant the bug in CX, through Ah Nian. She must have known it doesn't work on females, but I don't recall if she ever stated it. I am going to re check these days.

Kokuto

22 days ago

HeadInTheClouds:
This was also one of the things that I couldn't reconcile. XY was given these bugs by the woman that she saved. Why would you give something highly dangerous to your saviour without thoroughly explaining what they are and how to use them? These bugs are also more difficult to raise compared to your standard mother-child bugs, and yet, XY managed to raise them successfully. I guess it was through sheer luck?? But there was nothing to suggest that she knew what they were before her conversation with She Mei’er.

Arrgh. I forgot that earlier conversation. Will have to check it out again.

Part of the problem is XY is an unreliable narrator. Did she actually get the walnut Lovers Bug from an old woman? She says the old woman was dying, and then she went on her way, like she wasn't dying.... hmmmm I wonder if this old woman was the same one who gave Su Cheng Cheng the filter bracelet? lol

HeadInTheClouds:
Whether XY knew or not, I believe XL thought that she knew. When she was being evasive about them while he was questioning her, he called out her shifty-ness. This would double the feelings of betrayal when he found out about her real identity. When he confronted her outside of the Dragon Bone prison and she said she was planning to pretend not to know him when they met again, he commented that he still had her bugs in him; was she planning on going back on her words?

Really? I'm not sure, though, given what she said, about pretending not to know him, he'd have to realize that she didn't know what the bugs were. And when she's letting Jing carry her off, he definitely knew she was ignorant.

blabla100:
I don't recall what XY knew about the bugs at first, but did she at least know that they are a pair of female and male bugs? I am asking this, because I always thought it's a bit weird how she chose to plant the bug in CX, through Ah Nian.

I didn't remember A Nian having a role in the planting ... I'll have to recheck too. lol

HeadInTheClouds

21 days ago

blabla100:
ong Hua didn't reveal to the readers the initial discussion XY had with her,

I noticed this as well. I tried to deduce from their later conversation to get what information XY shared with She Mei'er during the initial discussion.

According to what XY mentioned about the bug to Jing in QS town,:1) the bugs allow the other person to experience what she experiences, but not the reverse and 2) she could recall the bug at will. Does being able to recall the bug equate to being able to control the bug? There is no conclusive evidence for this because XY never tried to control the bug when it was in CX.

Once the bugs were planted with XL, she could no longer recall them. What was interesting was that with XL, she knew that he could experience what she experienced, but she kept on questioning why the reserve was not true. If she truly believes in criterion 1) above, why would she be surprised and annoyed that thí only goes 1 way? I recall that the person who suggested the hypothesis also used this point to form her hypothesis.

Which one of this information pointed She Mei'er to the potential of them being the legendary Lover Bugs??

blabla100:
I don't recall what XY knew about the bugs at first, but did she at least know that they are a pair of female and male bugs?

XY never specifically mentioned them being male/female or parent/child bugs before this conversation.

Based on She Mei'er response here, either she didn't know or she deliberately left this information out in her initial conversation with She Mei'er (if we entertained the hypothesis I mentioned) because She Mei'er specifically mentioned the male/female nature of these bugs, as well as being difficult to grow and plant, which is different from the usual parent-child bug.

She also mentioned that if a woman raised it, then she needs to find a man to plant it and vice versa (these bugs are strictly heterosexual, lol). In the parent and child bug, the parent can control the child bug, which implies that in these male/female bugs, one cannot control the other. So XL never control XY's bug; what he did is suppress the signal from his bug so she can't sense him and/or used the connection between their bugs to influence hers. Influence is not the same as control.

blabla100:
I am asking this, because I always thought it's a bit weird how she chose to plant the bug in CX, through Ah Nian. She must have known it doesn't work on females,

My interpretation of this is that it would be easier for the bugs to be transferred to Ah Nian and then indirectly to CX. To attempt a direct transfer to CX would be riskier because CX has stronger spiritual power as well as being more alert. This was also the reason why she didn't plan the bug on XL in the novel. In the drama, I think it was slightly different. I believe she did attempt to plant it on XL, but it was unsuccessful. Why? There are a few theories: 1) the bugs were afraid of XL, so without his clear acceptance/willingness, they didn't dare to go near him; 2) he knew that she tried and deliberately repelled the bug.

I'm not convinced about the proposed hypothesis. I think it's more likely to be a bit of a plot hole and that as often, we analysed this more than TH thought about it when she was writing :-)

HeadInTheClouds

21 days ago

Kokuto:
Part of the problem is XY is an unreliable narrator. Did she actually get the walnut Lovers Bug from an old woman? She says the old woman was dying, and then she went on her way, like she wasn't dying....

XY does have some holes in her thinking due to her problems, but if we were to believe her claim, then she chatter/talks nonsense, but she doesn't lie. XL didn't believe her. He pegged her a "slippery loach" the first time that they met and called her a liar a few times.

A bit of a side note; the Vietnamese translation used a particular expression for "chatter/nonsense" that encompassed both talking nonsense and bullshitting/lying and not to be believed. If anyone has the Mandarin wording here, to do a translation for accuracy. In general, I think of XY as someone who has a rather loose relationship with the truth when it serves her. She may not outright lie, but she bends, exaggerates and omits details, minimising the importance of accuracy.

I think she found the woman when she was dying (a dirty beggar, kinda like Jing). She helped this woman clean up and dress up to meet someone. The woman ended up dying in a rather gruesome way. I think we speculated that she died due to the Lover Bugs' retaliation.

Kokuto:
I wonder if this old woman was the same one who gave Su Cheng Cheng the filter bracelet? lol

Yup. And her name is Tong Hua :-)

Kokuto:
Really? I'm not sure, though, given what she said, about pretending not to know him, he'd have to realize that she didn't know what the bugs were. And when she's letting Jing carry her off, he definitely knew she was ignorant.

Not quite sure about what you mean here. If you could elaborate.

What I mean is that when he was questioning her about where she got the bugs and how she knew how to raise them, she was evasive, and he scoffed and made comments indicating that he knew that she was bullshitting/hiding information from him. i.e she was being the slippery loach that he pegged her for. I think he outright said that she was lying during this passage as well.